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who gives a gently caress. there's money on the line and he found a winning strat against the guy he was playing. he would've been a moron to do anything else
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Apr 2, 2019 14:57
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Jigglypuff ftw. topic locked.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:01
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sharrrk posted:who gives a gently caress. there's money on the line and he found a winning strat against the guy he was playing. he would've been a moron to do anything else I don't really disagree, but it's still entirely the crowds' prerogative to jeer him for putting on such a bad show using one of the most degenerate tactics possible. Tournaments are a spectator sport and that prize money wouldn't exist if people frequently pulled that kind of poo poo.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:11
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fighting games should not be a spectator sport
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Apr 2, 2019 15:15
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tournament players are not entertainers
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Apr 2, 2019 15:16
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the guy did nothing wrong. in his position, any of you would do the same.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:18
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you know that's objectively untrue, right? just cause you would doesn't mean everyone else is broken.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:19
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it's easy to sit up here in your ivory tower and criticise the little guy. maybe you should take a long look in the mirror and really think about what you're saying.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:21
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look at this BROKEN man willing to use a tactic that works when money is on the line. Melee players are all autistic babies who don't shower and they won't even entertain ME, the world's only honorable Gamer
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Apr 2, 2019 15:22
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I would've just played fox instead 
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Apr 2, 2019 15:25
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I wonder where the tournament prize pools come from 
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Apr 2, 2019 15:34
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The fact that the Icies player here is also an advocate for bringing Wobbling back and apparently wore a shirt with his own hashtag on it makes me innately want to side with the Puff here.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:35
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I always wondered what Puff did against ICs, until I finally saw HBox fight an IC. Turns out Puff has to camp really really hard. I think it is the most unfun matchup in the game to play and to watch.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:35
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I mean poo poo if money is on the line I’d do that too. I’m never going back to work at Best Buy, gently caress your jeers.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:37
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The Bee posted:The fact that the Icies player here is also an advocate for bringing Wobbling back and apparently wore a shirt with his own hashtag on it makes me innately want to side with the Puff here. That's where I am. He needs to learn to handle the cheese if he wants to advocate for another cheese.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:46
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Asnorban posted:That's where I am. He needs to learn to handle the cheese if he wants to advocate for another cheese. Exactly. Especially when wobbling is a zero to death, he forced a game 5 despite a bad matchup, and most viable melee characters can catch a Puff anyway. I hate calling johns, but the guy who puts #FreeFaux on his shirt to whine about bans and quits midmatch is chock full of them.
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Apr 2, 2019 15:53
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The Ice Climbers player is the one at fault IMO - by refusing to engage they're guaranteeing that they'll lose, and therefore they're just wasting everyone's time. That said Puff does seem to cause extremely boring time draws a lot of the time and the rules probably need to be changed to prevent that kind of stalling. If playing a game optimally leads to lovely gameplay you need to change the game.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Apr 2, 2019 |
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Apr 2, 2019 16:01
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If you walked away from the tv in any other game nobody would ever take you seriously again and talk the biggest poo poo possible every time you showed your face at locals again. The babiest move of all time, except maybe throwing your opponents controller
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Apr 2, 2019 16:03
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Relevant Tangent posted:you know that's objectively untrue, right? just cause you would doesn't mean everyone else is broken. People risk getting gored by a bull for a loving Applebee’s certificate
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Apr 2, 2019 16:03
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it's fine to play the game the way you gotta to win, and it's also fine to acknowledge when that way kinda sucks
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Apr 2, 2019 16:39
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Bleck posted:it's fine to play the game the way you gotta to win, and it's also fine to acknowledge when that way kinda sucks Yeah it mostly seems to be a weird catch 22 where the whole idea of a broadcast tournament with prize money is for entertainment value while the best strategy in that specific matchup is to be as unentertaining as possible I feel like nobody did anything really wrong in this situation, from the players to the audience and even the broadcasters. Although if the ICs are that disadvantaged against Puff maybe the ICs player should start practicing a secondary? And if this match is going to keep hitting winners finals and causing viewership to tank then it's probably in the best interest of TOs to figure out a long term solution (my guess is this one is less likely since Melee has been out a long rear end time)
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Apr 2, 2019 16:49
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lol if you give a poo poo about smash tournaments instead of just playing the game solely as a vehicle to make Wario throw banana peels at and fart on pokemon
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Apr 2, 2019 16:54
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Guy A. Person posted:Yeah it mostly seems to be a weird catch 22 where the whole idea of a broadcast tournament with prize money is for entertainment value while the best strategy in that specific matchup is to be as unentertaining as possible hahaha maybe the game just sucks haha
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Apr 2, 2019 17:13
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The one who is at fault is the person who decided to not have rules against stalling.
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Apr 2, 2019 17:18
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EorayMel posted:lol if you give a poo poo about smash tournaments instead of just playing the game solely as a vehicle to make Wario throw banana peels at and fart on pokemon Wario is really living the dream
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Apr 2, 2019 17:19
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EorayMel posted:lol if you give a poo poo about smash tournaments instead of just playing the game solely as a vehicle to make Wario throw banana peels at and fart on pokemon lol if you play video games at all lol if you derive enjoyment from anything but most of all Ignite Memories posted:hahaha maybe the game just sucks haha lol at passive aggressive contrarian "old game bad" bullshit
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Apr 2, 2019 17:47
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TheKingofSprings posted:lol if you play video games at all so what about that video was a good thing
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Apr 2, 2019 17:51
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flatluigi posted:so what about that video was a good thing Nothing, but why do you think that video represents an entire videogame? I don't particularly care about melee, but even I'm not stupid enough to think you can distill it down to a clip.
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Apr 2, 2019 17:55
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Foxhound posted:Nothing, but why do you think that video represents an entire videogame? I'm that stupid
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Apr 2, 2019 17:56
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It's really a question of whether or not games are a spectator sport or not. Baseball is considering changing its rules because advanced metrics/player strength has made the game more boring. Basketball and football change their rules all the time and obviously both have strict time limits in place to prevent stalling bullshit like that jigglypuff. When you care about people watching, this is a responsibility of the show. So I'm on the crowd's side here, I'm saying.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:04
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There was a strict time limit in place. That's the whole point of stalling. It's like kneeling out the clock.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:16
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Reposting something I wrote elsewhere: Thinking about that Jigfs/ICs match going around and how it's being described as "Melee at its worst". When commentators say that, what they really mean is "Melee at its least entertaining". Its least marketable, its least *profitable*. Is that what the community values? I've talked before about how Puff hate is partially because Puff play goes against what Melee players value - aggressive, high-paced play that rewards a very particular training regimen & skillset. There's a weird machismo to Space Animals that Puff rejects. I thought that was it. But now I'm thinking - all things are intersectional, right? Toxic machismo doesn't stand alone in Melee, it's tied all up in capitalist imperatives and monetizable branded Content. Puff is incompatible with that - or, at least, *less* compatable than the 20XX hype machine. Melee Influencers understand implicitly, even if they don't all consciously realize, that Puff threatens Melee-as-an-industry. Hence the viral hate - the constant production of anti-Puff content to eke out some amount of $ from the situation while subtly pushing for a Puff ban. My take? If Puff threatens the Melee Industrial Complex - if Melee can't make it back to stage against her - then good. Capitalism's insidious tendrils rot away at everything. If Melee can escape by becoming unprofitable, then thank god - its soul might yet be saved. ... which is all to say, that fighting games cannot be both a profitable spectator sport and a fair and engaging battleground.The outrage over this clip is just the latest expression of this fundamental incompatibility.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:16
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DoctorWhat posted:Reposting something I wrote elsewhere: please don't do it again
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Apr 2, 2019 18:19
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DoctorWhat posted:Reposting something I wrote elsewhere: The only reason such a degenerate tactic even get a look-in is because of financial incentive though, if you tried to timer stall an entire five minute match in a friendly you'd rightly be treated with disgust for wasting your opponent's time. Either Smash should be a de-monetised hobby in which case why would you go to such efforts to win in such a lovely way when there's nothing on the line but your enjoyment of the game? Or it's a sport people are playing for money in which case there should be some limitations to stall to prevent scenarios where the crowd and commentators are literally booing the games they paid to see and which are funding the the tournament's prize fund.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:32
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DoctorWhat posted:Reposting something I wrote elsewhere: Andrast posted:please don't do it again Seconding this.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:37
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multijoe posted:The only reason such a degenerate tactic even get a look-in is because of financial incentive though, if you tried to timer stall an entire five minute match in a friendly you'd rightly be treated with disgust for wasting your opponent's time. My point exactly. Melee-as-it-is and esports profit are not as compatible as monied interests would like. Legislating nerfs to Puff is the Melee Industry's solution. I'd rather Melee lose all profitability than see rules changes to benefit the esports industry.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:43
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DoctorWhat posted:My point exactly. Melee-as-it-is and esports profit are not as compatible as monied interests would like. Legislating nerfs to Puff is the Melee Industry's solution. I'd rather Melee lose all profitability than see rules changes to benefit the esports industry. The monetization is unfortunately what is driving people to compete at these levels, because it's not currently possible to spend that amount of time training and competing if you also have to work to feed yourself, so you need sponsors/twitch followers/tourney winnings. Basically we need to dismantle the entire capitalist system, it's not at all possible to set up pure islands of isolation from capitalism's corrupting influence. In a post-capitalist world, players would be free to compete at the highest levels of play just for personal achievement.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:48
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Exactly. we have to smash capitalism to smash freely. To clarify: stalling with Puff isn't revolutionary praxis but I do get a certain satisfaction from watching it cause such apoplectic reactions among esports bootlickers.
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Apr 2, 2019 18:49
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jigglypuff ftw
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Apr 2, 2019 18:53
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Guy A. Person posted:Basically we need to dismantle the entire capitalist system this is not the thread in which I expected to be agreeing to this today but nonetheless
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Apr 2, 2019 18:55
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