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hobbesmaster posted:The max 8 is sold worldwide though and right now the max 8 is grounded everywhere. The FAA doing something that doesn't satisfy Europe is going to be a problem. This is one of many problems I can see in the aftermath of this. Aircraft certification internationally is based on bilateral agreements, which are predicated on the idea that "your rules are the same as ours, so if you say it's safe, we will say it's safe." If the FAA is thought to be playing fast and loose with things that other countries may or may not allow, this system starts to break down.
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Apr 6, 2019 19:16
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a patagonian cavy posted:Then you release electric trim, everything is kosher for 5 seconds, and then MCAS kicks you nose down again. MCAS be like Trim Down For WHAT???
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Apr 6, 2019 20:28
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luminalflux posted:MCAS be like Trim Down For WHAT??? love it
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Apr 6, 2019 20:42
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luminalflux posted:MCAS be like Trim Down For WHAT??? title it
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Apr 6, 2019 20:45
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Fine, fine.MrChips posted:This is one of many problems I can see in the aftermath of this. Aircraft certification internationally is based on bilateral agreements, which are predicated on the idea that "your rules are the same as ours, so if you say it's safe, we will say it's safe." If the FAA is thought to be playing fast and loose with things that other countries may or may not allow, this system starts to break down. babyeatingpsychopath posted:Basing this in the reality
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Apr 6, 2019 20:52
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So how do the airlines respond? The news cycle has beat the poo poo out of the max 8 for weeks now. How are you going to convince people to get back on them?
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Apr 6, 2019 21:12
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Bob A Feet posted:So how do the airlines respond? The news cycle has beat the poo poo out of the max 8 for weeks now. How are you going to convince people to get back on them? "Every government agency agrees the problem is solved and we've provided more training to our pilots than required to ensure the safety of our passengers. Also, here's a coupon for a free drink."
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Apr 6, 2019 21:21
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Bob A Feet posted:So how do the airlines respond? The news cycle has beat the poo poo out of the max 8 for weeks now. How are you going to convince people to get back on them? People are avoiding flights on normal 737s right now.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:22
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Bob A Feet posted:So how do the airlines respond? The news cycle has beat the poo poo out of the max 8 for weeks now. How are you going to convince people to get back on them? Southwest costs $$$ less to go from Tuscon to Cleveland than American and they fly a Max on that route so.... Guess you're flying a Max.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:27
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Finger Prince posted:Southwest costs $$$ less to go from Tuscon to Cleveland than American and they fly a Max on that route so.... Guess you're flying a Max. Theres clearly limits to this, ULCCs go under all the time even if they have the cheapest seats on paper.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:31
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It’s all the recently approved planes that aren’t 737 MAXs that worry me.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:37
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hobbesmaster posted:Theres clearly limits to this, ULCCs go under all the time even if they have the cheapest seats on paper. And yet people still choose to fly on them, no matter how badly overworked their crews are, how badly maintained their aircraft are, etc. Next month or so there will be another Wow Air flying people for dirt cheap and if they're flying 737 maxes, people will think, isn't that the airplane that crashed in Ethiopia? And then check Google flights and see that United costs $1500 more to fly them to Paris and they'll say ehhh I guess it's probably safe now.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:43
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Platystemon posted:It’s all the recently approved planes that aren’t 737 MAXs that worry me. Which one? Airbuses are approved in Europe and FAA grants reciprocal. Same for Embraer in Brazil and Bombardier in Canada.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:43
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Finger Prince posted:And yet people still choose to fly on them, no matter how badly overworked their crews are, how badly maintained their aircraft are, etc. Next month or so there will be another Wow Air flying people for dirt cheap and if they're flying 737 maxes, people will think, isn't that the airplane that crashed in Ethiopia? And then check Google flights and see that United costs $1500 more to fly them to Paris and they'll say ehhh I guess it's probably safe now. 737s are shorter range aircraft so its never going to be quite like that. In the US while Southwest is all 737s, Spirit and Frontier are all Airbus. In Europe while Ryanair is 737s, Easyjet and many others are Airbus.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:47
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hobbesmaster posted:737s are shorter range aircraft so its never going to be quite like that. In the US while Southwest is all 737s, Spirit and Frontier are all Airbus. In Europe while Ryanair is 737s, Easyjet and many others are Airbus. Maxes are Etops 180. They fly east coast of Canada to Europe, and west coast to Hawaii. Wow were using a321s, which aren't even etops certified, and didn't need to be because they flew via KEF. There's no reason at all why someone might see a bunch of cheap maxes dumped on the market and try to have a go of fleecing vacationers out of their money.
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Apr 6, 2019 21:58
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Finger Prince posted:Maxes are Etops 180. They fly east coast of Canada to Europe, and west coast to Hawaii. Wow were using a321s, which aren't even etops certified, and didn't need to be because they flew via KEF. There's no reason at all why someone might see a bunch of cheap maxes dumped on the market and try to have a go of fleecing vacationers out of their money. Airbus has the A321LR and A321XLR for that market which are being delivered now.
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Apr 6, 2019 22:06
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I think there will be both software and training fixes for the Max, but no way in hell are they retyping it
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Apr 6, 2019 23:19
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Now I just want to know how many pax could fit on an ultra large crude carrier and how much extra would it cost for the escape row
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Apr 6, 2019 23:50
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:I think there will be both software and training fixes for the Max, but no way in hell are they retyping it But what about hardware fixes? The MCAS is necessary for the type certification and has to be reconstructed to be something more than a hack-job. That probably calls for more / better sensor integration.
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Apr 7, 2019 00:09
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luminalflux posted:MCAS be like Trim Down For WHAT??? not emptyquoting but 
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Apr 7, 2019 01:56
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Why is it so important to keep the same type rating in the first place? Just cheapass airlines not wanting to pay for any additional pilot training?
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Apr 7, 2019 02:11
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Sagebrush posted:Why is it so important to keep the same type rating in the first place? Just cheapass airlines not wanting to pay for any additional pilot training? It also lets Boeing grandfather some features that would not be allowed on a new design.
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Apr 7, 2019 02:18
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luminalflux posted:MCAS be like Trim Down For WHAT??? Automotive Insanity › MCAS Insanity: Trim Down for WHAT???
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Apr 7, 2019 02:43
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hobbesmaster posted:People are avoiding flights on normal 737s right now. Alaska decided to repeatedly punch themselves in the dick, despite having no Max airplanes delivered yet. Initially, they put out a statement saying that the Max was totally safe, which was 24 hours before the FAA grounded the fleet. They followed this up with a "We totally support Boeing" ad in a Seattle newspaper (probably because both companies have killed people by cutting costs) which came out 12 hours before the story broke about the FBI investigation, and all the specifics of how badly Boeing hosed up.
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Apr 7, 2019 02:59
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azflyboy posted:Alaska decided to repeatedly punch themselves in the dick, despite having no Max airplanes delivered yet. Should've gone with Delta's "we fully support Boeings built in the 90s" policy
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Apr 7, 2019 03:09
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Sagebrush posted:Why is it so important to keep the same type rating in the first place? Just cheapass airlines not wanting to pay for any additional pilot training? It's like having a building with no ramps or elevators, inadequate fire doors, and poor ventilation because it passed code in 1975, but if you wanted to build that same building today you'd have to shell out for all that stuff to meet code.
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Apr 7, 2019 03:12
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Except even worse than that, apparently, because I guess you're allowed to build the same building again and ignore all the parts that aren't up to code today as long as it still has the same number of doors and windows?
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Apr 7, 2019 03:18
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Sagebrush posted:Except even worse than that, apparently, because I guess you're allowed to build the same building again and ignore all the parts that aren't up to code today as long as it still has the same number of doors and windows? More like, you can build an entirely NEW building but you have to put the old foyer on it. Edit: seriously, the max (and the ng, and the “classic”) are all new airplanes compared to the original 100/200. From the cockpit door back anyway. Forward of that it’s mostly the 1960’s Arson Daily fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 06:27
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Nah, it’s that you can build a new building but the size of each floor has to be the same. It can be as tall or as short as you like. Also, plumbing has to be the same, but electrical can be different
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Apr 7, 2019 06:31
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hobbesmaster posted:People are avoiding flights on normal 737s right now. Yeah I couldn't get my mom to listen to me that the 737-700 isn't a Max.
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Apr 7, 2019 07:10
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Sagebrush posted:Except even worse than that, apparently, because I guess you're allowed to build the same building again and ignore all the parts that aren't up to code today as long as it still has the same number of doors and windows? It's like when I obtained a permit to "renovate" my garage, and all I had to do was retain something from the original. I chose a 10X6 section of concrete slab. Went from this  to this  hobbesmaster posted:People are avoiding flights on normal 737s right now. We were on vacation in Florida when the MAX went down. We were a tad concerned, since we flew Southwest. Turns out they have a small percentage of them; the bulk of their fleet is older types. Rode the -700 down & back. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 08:20
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DP. Have a photo.
PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 08:27 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 08:25
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Sagebrush posted:Why is it so important to keep the same type rating in the first place? Just cheapass airlines not wanting to pay for any additional pilot training?
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Apr 7, 2019 09:31
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Arson Daily posted:More like, you can build an entirely NEW building but you have to put the old foyer on it. Well the trim controls ain't in the galley!
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Apr 7, 2019 12:28
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Sagebrush posted:Except even worse than that, apparently, because I guess you're allowed to build the same building again and ignore all the parts that aren't up to code today as long as it still has the same number of doors and windows?
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Apr 7, 2019 13:02
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You can build a new skyscraper with more floors as long as the the superintendent’s office, the mechanical room, and the coffee machine are in the same places. The mechanical room is actually on a different floor now, but that’s allowed because the elevator will detect when the superintendent intends to go to that floor and reroute accordingly. One day the elevator started a fire and sent the superintendent, the firefighters, and the fleeing residents to the mechanical floor, where they perished.
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Apr 7, 2019 13:34
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Is the Delta Flight Museum in Atlanta worth a visit?
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Apr 7, 2019 16:40
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Apr 7, 2019 16:58
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Economy $68 - 1 pc cabin luggage incl. Business $345 - 1 pc cabin luggage, 1 pc checked luggage, meal service, seating in acft's Faraday cage incl.
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Apr 7, 2019 17:15
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PainterofCrap posted:DP. Have a photo. 737 MAX POWER
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Apr 7, 2019 17:51
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