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ZeroCount posted:Part of what makes this so surreal for me is that for a long while Holden and Morke were the golden boys of the Exalted franchise. Back in the latter days of 2e when everyone assumed that the game was more or less dead, they kept it alive by producing a bunch of content for free and eventually putting entirely new books out. And since it was 2e, a raging garbage fire of bad mechanics and awful Charms, they came off in comparison as if not system geniuses but as people who knew what they were doing. Hell, they even re-did Graceful Wicked Masques of all things. Oftentimes the guy who's most excited and determined to do a thing is the last person you should allow to do it. Nobody is as driven and proactive as a dumb rear end in a top hat who's been given a chance to inflict his terrible opinions on others.
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Apr 7, 2019 06:41
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 Neotech 2 Part 9: Exhaustive crunch.  Welcome to the gateway to the crunch. This chapter contains nothing but rules to simulate the wear and tear of various activities on the player characters bodies. It’s only 8 pages but still incredibly dense with several different kinds of status effects and plenty of rule examples. Let’s begin. Just what is exhaustion mechanically speaking in Neotech 2? As you remember from the character creation section we calculated our Exhaustion columns by adding our TÅL and VIL attributes and diving those by 4. This then gave us how many of the 10 columns we’ll be using. The rest has to be crossed over permanently. For example, our good buddy Oleg Kasputin has TÅL 15 and VIL 13 which means that he’ll get 7 columns (Or UK as its shortened in the book) as 15+13/4 =7. With a permanent marker or something you cross out the last three columns.  Of course it’s worth noting once again that there are drawbacks and benefits that will affect how many of those you can get and they will all affect the column calculations. The exhaustion system works somewhat like the damage tracker in Shadowrun and other games. Whenever you accrue exhaustion points you mark those down on the chart. Once you’ve managed to fill out two rows of checkboxes you start taking modifications to your roll. These range from Ob1D6 to Ob4D6. These modifications are added to the difficulty checks for all attribute and skill checks. Then just out of the blue the book drops the term VINIT that is also affected by exhaustion but it doesn’t actually explain what that means and I couldn’t find what it means after searching through my PDF so who knows. Possibly combat related but I have no idea. Exhaustion will also affect the characters FÖR, for each increased difficulty step their FÖR is decreased by 1 meter. But that can never go lower than 1 meter as well. An option rule is that if the GM thinks that the character is far too exhausted they need to succeed on a TÅL check. The difficulty should be about as equal to the dice penalty they have, but in general it’s recommended that they should only do so once they’ve reached the Ob4D6 tier. It also says or higher but that is also beyond the scope of the tracker so not sure what’s the point of saying that. Either way a failed check means that the character has to stop and rest, to then be able to carry on they need to succeed another TÅL check. But that check should be done later as the penalties decrease from the character having rested. Then there is also extended exhaustion. It’s at this point I suspect that these rules were lifted from the Eon books without a second glance as one of the examples for this is magic rituals. If that is actually in this game remains to be seen but I doubt it somewhat. Either way you’re supposed to mark this kind differently on the sheet so they can be told apart. Otherwise it works exactly the same as normal exhaustion with the main difference is that recovery takes longer. So how does one recover from exhaustion then? Normal exhaustion is recovered at a rate of 1 checkmark per round, or 15 marks per minute. Extended exhaustion is recovered at a rate of 1 mark per 12 minutes or 5 marks in one hour. Which is why you then need to distinguish between the two. Oddly enough the relevant table calls the normal exhaustion type as combat exhaustions. A term that hasn’t cropped up anywhere else yet. On top of that extended exhaustion recovery can be affected by things like hunger, sleep deprivation, thirst or cold. But we’ll get to those in due time. Neotech posted:“If you run you’ll only die tired…” Everybody loves to track item weights right? A characters carrying capacity is equal to their STY + TÅL/2, with everything measured in kilogram. The total weight of what the character is carrying is called Strain. But, thankfully, clothes and body armor are usually not added to this. Even if some types will have their own Strain values, but it’s more often lower than what the stuff weighs. But if you then carry those items in backpack then you use the items actual weight and not its Strain value. If the Strain value exceeds your carrying capacity then they will get overburdened, no surprise there. An overburdened character will however gain 1 extra point of exhaustion if the Strain doesn’t exceed twice their capacity. That goes up to 2 extra points if it’s between two or three times as much. It is possible to reach 0 meter per round in movement speed if that is divided and rounded downwards enough. Overburdened penalties to attributes and skills will only happen when the Strain is twice the carrying capacity and then increases upwards after that. For example from the relevant table: If the characters Strain is 6 times greater that of their carrying capacity then speed is divided by 6 and they will gain 5 exhaustion as well as an Ob2D6 difficulty increase. The GM is however free to decide that some skills, mainly physical ones such as swimming or jumping, will be even more affected by Strain. An optional rule deals what happens when a character is massively overburdened, which involves a successful check against RÖR to avoid tripping over. Marching! There are rules for those too. And tables too. Also we’ll be dealing with extended exhaustion in this case. So under normal circumstances you can travel 36 km in 12 hours on foot. Marching quicker means that you can increase your distance but will make you more tired as a result. Or you can do a forced march go a bit further and faster. Every day you’re traveling for long periods of time on foot you have to do a TÅL check, usually at normal difficulty but can also be modified by various factors such as terrain, injuries or exhaustion. You can also roll using the Survival skill if so wanted. If the roll succeeds then your journey is painless, but if you fail it means that the journey will be shorter by an hour for each point of negative effect. The travel time can however not go into the negatives. The character will also get slightly injured that makes the next day a bit harder. But will go away after 24 hours of resting. A critical success means that the travel time will be cut in half. But if you fumble you get the effect of a failed roll but also be injured to such a degree that they will gain Ob1D6 trauma and has to roll for both Shock and Death. Realism! Whenever you travel in group you move as fast as the one who rolled the worst of everyone involved. Unless you want to split the party like a moron. It’s fully possible to keep on marching but that will lead to increased difficulty rolls based on how much exhaustion has been gained previously. Neotech posted:“It’s surprising how much ‘mature understanding’ is similar to being tired.” A good night’s rest is always important, even more so in N2. If you stay awake for more than 16 hours you are in a state of sleep deprivation. For each hour you’re awake beyond that point you gain one mark of extended exhaustion, also you’re unable to cover any marks of the same until you go to sleep. In order to cure yourself from this means somewhere between 8 to 10 hours of sleep, if you sleep less than that (6 to 7 hours) then your extended exhaustion recovery rate is halved the next day. If you do have sleep deprivation it’s a good idea to do roll VIL each other to see if the character stays awake or not. Yes, there is a table with difficulty modifications for that. Being cold sucks a lot of the time. If a character is exposed to a decrease in temperature it runs them the risk of suffering from hypothermia. To avoid this they will need to make a TÅL check for each hour they’re exposed. The difficulty is dependant on multiple factors, all of them listed in a pretty extensive set of tables. The various modifications you need to take into consideration here is temperature, wind, if the character is going any physical activity and what they are wearing. All this means that a character can’t recover their extended exhaustion marks and will instead gain Ob1D6 marks each period, which is usually every hour. But that can increase with difficulty to the point you can make Ob5D6 checks every 15 minutes and upwards. Once your exhaustion starts to increase because of hypothermia you have to roll additional TÅL checks. If they fail they accrue 1 point of trauma that symbolises frostbite. You also have to roll for Shock and Death as normal. Weird that they decide to bring up stuff like this way before they start talking about the damage and health system. So the character has now gotten a case of hypothermia and needs to recover. But it turns out their friends are massive idiots and have put them completely naked in a warm room. As a result the cold blood in their extremities are now rushing towards their vital organs. If this was to happen the character has to roll a special Death roll, with its difficulty modified by how exhausted they are. Apparently the only exception to the rules of Death checks. To be fair I don’t see the survival rate being all that high for that check if you have to count in exhaustion modifiers as well. But if someone manages to succeed a check with either Survival or Medicine they’ll recognize the dangers of cold shock. Thankfully this is an optional rule but I could see it being sprung up on players by some GM’s. So what happens if a character gets dunked in cold water then? Because there are rules for that as well. In this case the TÅL checks gets modified slightly. Going from Ob1D6 at +15°C to Ob12D6 at ±0°C. Also the rolls have to be done every 10 minutes of ingame time instead of an hour like before. You know what also sucks? Being hungry. If a character doesn’t eat for a whole day they are considered to be starving. For each day they go without food they get Ob1D6 points of extended exhaustion. Every day they also have to roll a TÅL check to see if they do not get 1 point of Trauma. The difficulty for this roll is based on how much exhaustion they have but isn’t modified by anything else. Getting dehydrated also sucks. Which is something that N2 also has rules for. If a character doesn’t drink enough fluids during the day they will suffer from dehydration. How much they will need to drink based on things such as temperature and physical effort is listed in a table. Once they are dehydrated they gain one mark of extended exhaustion each hour that progresses, but heat and effort can increase this. Much like the other effects you also need to make a TÅL check, but in this case you will gain 2 points of Trauma if the check fails. For both of these you need to roll for both Shock and Death if you get several points of Trauma. Also you’re unable to recover both Trauma or extended exhaustion points if you’re either starving or dehydrated. Neotech posted:“About alcohol: Four is more than one too many.” Table N2-78 is probably the funniest one I’ve seen so far. It shows how much extended exhaustion you get from drinking alcohol. It starts of nice and easy with one can of beer giving you 3 points, a cup of sake gives you 2 points and so on. Then there’s a couple of upper tier ones; a bottle of wine is 22 points, a bottle of Vodka or Whiskey is 75 points each. Then right at the bottom there is 96% Rectified spirits that gives you a whopping 200 points if you somehow manage to drink 1 liter of it. Considering the absolute maximum of columns you can get is 90 I’m not sure you can do that without somehow passing the majority of the rolls. Oddly enough no listings for single shot or glass of vodka or whiskey. Guess you actually have to do some extrapolation this time around, or just use the value for shots. Every time a character drinks they need to do a check with their Boozing skill to see how drunk they get. The base difficulty for this how much exhaustion you have combined with a number of other factors such as physique or if you’re drinking on an empty stomach. Or if you’re a woman as well. There is also a dice modification if you’re a child for some reason. Pulling the example straight out the book Katherine Mitchell has a Ob4D6 check on her Boozing roll for her first drink. This is because while she is not exhausted (Ob0D6) she has a weak physique (+Ob2D6), an empty stomach (+Ob1D6) and is a woman (+Ob1D6). If you succeed then the character can keep on drinking with gusto, they’ll obviously get drunk but they’re feeling fine. If it is a critical success then they won’t even get any extended exhaustion from their last drink. On the other hand if the roll fails then the character feels that the cup has run over and they have to do a check against TÅL with the same difficulty as Boozing. If they fail this roll they will faint and fall asleep for Ob1D6 hours. But if the roll is a success on the other hand you get a different effect. To which you need to consult table N2-80: the Blind Drunk table. 0: The character gets the feeling that something is wrong and has Ob1D6 rounds on them to move until they puke. Afterwards the character feels bad about themself and is passive for Ob1D6x10 minutes, preferably in some quiet place. 1: The character gets a sensation that their stomach is in an uproar and has Ob1D6 minutes on them to move to some discrete location before their contents come up again. Afterwards the character will feel a bit better and decides to rest for Ob1D6x5 minutes. 2: The character doesn’t feel food and feel that they’re going to puke soon, in actually in Ob2D6 minutes. After the incident the character feels okay again. 3+: The character suddenly gets very tired and stumbles away for a while to get some fresh air − it’s so nice that the character stays there for Ob1D6 minutes. If you fumble your Boozing roll you will instantly faint. Recovery the day after is at the normal extended exhaustion recovery rate of one point every 12 minutes or 5 points in an hour. An optional rule is abstinence. If the character has 15 ranks in Boozing and goes past a bar or liquor shop they need to succeed with a normal difficulty Boozing skill check to not go inside and get something to drink. If they fumble they will try to get as drunk as possible in the shortest timespan possible. If you succeed then you won’t need to roll until the next day. Remember that degeneration table I mentioned during character creation? It’s finally time to discuss that. If the character has over 15 ranks in the Boozing skill they are considered to be an alcoholic. Were they to purchase more ranks than that they will have to start rolling on the degeneration table as their constant drinking takes its toll on their body. For example if you somehow has managed to get 20 ranks in Boozing you will have to roll 4 times on that table. But the big reason as to why you might need to roll on that table is aging. Once the character has reached 50 years of age they will have to roll on the table once every new year or some other date as decided by the GM. If the affected attribute finally reaches zero it means that the character has died, or becomes completely crippled to there point where no cybertech or medicine can help them. SYN and HÖR are listed here but as we already know characters don’t die if they reach zero as mentioned way back. Which actually isn’t mentioned. In rare cases this can happen during character creation, but it’s mercifully rare as it might only happen with character who have been imprisoned for long amounts of time. Or they get really unlucky and get the premature aging drawback and they will have to start rolling at age 20. Interestingly enough the book doesn’t mention that in this case either. So that’s the exhaustive exhaustion rules. I for once is exhausted from reading them. Not a fan of these because they reinforce the theme of pointless bookkeeping and minutia wherein you have to keep track of accurate measurements of time to figure out how much you recover. No sir, I do not like it. But now we can leave that behind and move onto… Oh no. Next time: If the day does not require an AK, it is good.
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Apr 7, 2019 12:20
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 The Rifter 9½, part 7: "For example, a woman who is being sweet-talked by her male companion may be made to kiss him if perceived to be nice, or slapped if he's being a creep or a cad." Defective Powers By So, these are drawbacks you can put on powers for "comedy and uncertainty". These aren't like flaws for merits or disadvantage for advantages - most are just drawbacks you'd add because... well, maybe you just want to be kooky. I won't cover all of them, just the ones that stand out to me.  There's no art in this section, so have Flying Snake instead. Minor Super Abilities
 Similarly, here's Squish. Major Super Abilities By
Next: Humor has 6,570 M.D.C.
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Apr 7, 2019 14:44
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It's like an alien trying to blend into Earth society by writing jokes without understanding what they are "Observation: humans often mention bodily gasses when participating in 'humor' activities"
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Apr 7, 2019 15:18
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megane posted:Oftentimes the guy who's most excited and determined to do a thing is the last person you should allow to do it. Nobody is as driven and proactive as a dumb rear end in a top hat who's been given a chance to inflict his terrible opinions on others. I feel like the White Wolf forum community was particularly venomous and divisive, and the fact that both of them came from it definitely played a part in the attitudes they showed. There were a lot of obsessive assholes around, so being acidically defensive, reactionary, and dismissive was the norm. That's not intended as a defense, mind, but the White Wolf forums were the /tg/ of their day, and I think it helped shape their behavior as devs.
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Apr 7, 2019 15:25
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I remember someone being incredulous when I asked why we should trust that the Scion reboot will turn out alright. After Holden/Morke, Matt McFarland, and Swedracula, people have a valid reason to be skeptical.
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Apr 7, 2019 15:42
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I feel like the White Wolf forum community was particularly venomous and divisive, and the fact that both of them came from it definitely played a part in the attitudes they showed. There were a lot of obsessive assholes around, so being acidically defensive, reactionary, and dismissive was the norm. Actual /tg/ has had the opposite reaction I've seen to the new 3e devs, and are super mad Exalted said the Immaculate Faith is ok with trans people and that gay marriage is allowed in the Realm on the same conditions that a marriage for love is allowed (rarely, considering most Dynasts regardless of sexuality consider it too much of a chore to influence marriage negotiations that way and would rather just marry and be in love with someone on the side). This has made some conclude that the entire game line is ruined and that modern politics will forever infect their game and how awful that is. I found the way the DB book handled trans people to be kind of silly though. Would have rather it just said "Sids added theological arguments that trans people are who they identify to the Immaculate doctrine so idiot DBs wouldn't kill their children for coming out" than "A fictional dragon is trans".
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Apr 7, 2019 17:09
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 Dark Revelation is a d20 system RPG by Chris Constantin and Jason Cable Hall and edited by Joe Amon and published in 2014. Set in a twice post-apocalyptic world, it asks players to make their way in this hostile but still rebuilding landscape. It is available for free along with a host of expansion material and the developers blog Part 8: Something Old, Something New Before we can do all new material, we need to first cover some new features on existing mechanics. By that I mean skills. And by skills I mean <long, drawn out sigh> For those not familiar with d20 games, your characters use skills for most of their out of combat capabilities, from how long they can swim for to what they know. Since D&D is a bit of a grab-bag setting, this lead to quite a lot of skills that are too narrow in application, some too broad, and all difficult to parse how often they’ll realistically need or should come up during a campaign. But we aren’t playing D&D, and like many of its d20 ilk Dark Revelations includes most of the skill list and then piles on some new ones and none of this really resolves the core issues. Having 8 different sub-skills under knowledge does not balance out that the Combatant is going to suck at their chosen skills compared to everyone else, nor that these very specialized skills add little to the game. Does the granularity separating tinker and sabotage add anything to your character design and how do you prevent overlap? What about Bluff, Disguise, Stealth, and Manipulation? Of course, some of these skills, like “Knowledge - Dreamtime” also have focus-pull issues. If a player takes “Knowledge - Dreamtime” at character creation well then either there is going to be a commensurate amount of Dreamtime content or that player is just wasting skill points. What happens if no player takes this skill, are you simply not allowed to have Dreamtime content? For the record Dreamtime is never defined*, it’s just a thing that happens in Australia which as you may recall, is pretty dang far from all the actual setting content in this game. Ok, but what if we did something slightly new with skills? Enter skill Montages. All too often in d20 games, skill checks turn into a singular character doing their skill over and over again and other characters debating what toppings they want on the pizza they’re ordering. Dark Revelations realized this and built a system to help define how to combine multiple skills for different characters to participate into a single overarching action like an on foot chase and how to mete out the challenge appropriately. The problem here, is two fold. Even with all this work and including other players, skills in d20 aren’t very interesting. The only choice a player makes is “yes, I will roll for this test” or “no, I won’t roll for this test” so adding more steps and rolls doesn’t make it any more engaging or fun, it just makes it take longer. The other part is mentioned above, not all classes are equally good at skills. It’s a nice idea to think that by having four skills needed for a challenge four players will participate, but the Combatant is probably not ever going to participate or, if they are, only ever for one possible skill while Adventurers may be able to do all the skill checks themselves. Immediately after this, why look at that, it’s even more feats. Some are original to d20 and some are new, but all of them are extremely d20 feat design which means ticky-tacky bonuses and weird draw-backs mixed in with mandatory chains of things to take if you want to be a half-way decent character. Who doesn’t like investing a feat to be able to make one free unarmed attack against an opponent that you tripped in the same turn after investing two other pre-requisite feats? What about having a feat that lets you take ten on specific skill checks? Boy I love spending precious character resources between situational combat and out of combat benefits. I don’t know if I’ve made it clear enough I don’t like d20 feats. Next up is how Dark Revelations handles money which is done in a currency called G-Bills which stands for “nothing” but you and I both know its Gold. The G is gold. I’m not disappointed that you did this Dark Revelations, I just wished you owned it because its the sort of goofy thing that feels like what the setting is going for. Unlike gold in d20, however, there are rules for creating counterfeits and since it’s just a printed currency you could conceivably have an adventure about stealing its plates and inks and making your own legal tender. Hey, wait, if this stuff is currently being printed and everyone understands its intrinsic worth, that means there’s some sort of society that everyone views as stable, trustworthy, and ideologically aligned enough to use their currency as a medium of exchange. Oh, whats that? It’s the official currency of the racist, irredentist religious lunatics who are planning to reconquer all the other countries? Dark Revelations, that is a disappointing idea. *Yes, I’m aware that Dreamtime and what they’re going for is a real concept, I’m merely pointing out that within the context of the ruleset of Dark Revelations it has no meaning Next Time: Ain’t Nuthin but a G-Bill Thang
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Apr 7, 2019 17:28
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SunAndSpring posted:Actual /tg/ has had the opposite reaction I've seen to the new 3e devs, and are super mad Exalted said the Immaculate Faith is ok with trans people and that gay marriage is allowed in the Realm on the same conditions that a marriage for love is allowed (rarely, considering most Dynasts regardless of sexuality consider it too much of a chore to influence marriage negotiations that way and would rather just marry and be in love with someone on the side). This has made some conclude that the entire game line is ruined and that modern politics will forever infect their game and how awful that is. Eh, I like that it wasn't a calculated political maneuver and is actually just yeah they're okay with trans folks. I mean, yes it's silly but we already don't get much rep, and I prefer the thought of "yeah okay they're just fine with it" to "they had to be tricked into acceptance"
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Apr 7, 2019 18:10
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SunAndSpring posted:Actual /tg/ has had the opposite reaction I've seen to the new 3e devs, and are super mad Exalted said the Immaculate Faith is ok with trans people and that gay marriage is allowed in the Realm on the same conditions that a marriage for love is allowed (rarely, considering most Dynasts regardless of sexuality consider it too much of a chore to influence marriage negotiations that way and would rather just marry and be in love with someone on the side). This has made some conclude that the entire game line is ruined and that modern politics will forever infect their game and how awful that is. The fact Dragon-Blooded gain their power from some dim variation of genetics has always been a tinderbox for armchair eugenicists and other self-appointed geniuses and regressive fetishists. It gives life to the worst Exalted arguments aside from old-school beastmen discussions.
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Apr 7, 2019 18:24
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MollyMetroid posted:Eh, I like that it wasn't a calculated political maneuver and is actually just yeah they're okay with trans folks. I mean, yes it's silly but we already don't get much rep, and I prefer the thought of "yeah okay they're just fine with it" to "they had to be tricked into acceptance" It's a political maneuver either way, considering the Immaculate Dragons all are mythical figures spread by Sidereals long ago after everybody who participated in the actual Usurpation died. I dunno, I think I just dislike the way they did it simply because it kinda reminds me of how people conflate representation in media with getting LGBT people normalized. Just makes me really sad when people give poo poo like Will & Grace and Orange is the New Black more credit for advancing positive behaviors towards LGBT people than the actual activists who did poo poo. Both of the reasons why the Realm is accepting of trans people don't really involve trans people doing anything, now that I think of it; Danaa'd is a myth and the Scarlet Empress's first husband, a trans man, is noted only in his role in being the father of Mnemon and Ragara, and thus might as well be like every other consort the Empress has had over the years. I mean, dream scenario would be a side bar saying that the Immaculate Faith's acceptance only came about after decades of arguing in the early days of its existence that trans people can only fulfill their role in the Perfected Hierarchy by being able to transition and supported in that regard, but oh well, poo poo's done and over with.
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Apr 7, 2019 18:35
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to be honest I'm not sure how to gel 'people crediting media representation with a minority group becoming more mainstream accepted makes me bothered' and 'the fantasy book should have invented a fake activist instead of a fake consort that would have made it better than a relatively enlightened society just kinda not needing much to go 'right this minority group exists and there's nothing about them that actually stops their function in our society so who cares'. Like, it feels like the related version of that poo poo like werewolf saying earth goddess is a TERF would be better if there was a line about the Black Furies protesting that vs just saying 'actually earth goddess doesn't give a poo poo about weird reductive bio-absolutism because she's an earth goddess not some mumsnet poster with too much free time'. e: I guess my point is I'm kinda ok just having a fantasy world where my basic humanity doesn't have to be a fight and don't see how that downplays the real world where it is.
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Apr 7, 2019 18:51
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sexpig by night posted:e: I guess my point is I'm kinda ok just having a fantasy world where my basic humanity doesn't have to be a fight and don't see how that downplays the real world where it is. Nailed it
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Apr 7, 2019 19:00
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Yeah, assuming that our particular weird hangups as a society are universal to all societies, and that any fictional society needs some kind of excuse to justify not sharing them, gives our prejudices too much credit.
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Apr 7, 2019 19:18
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SunAndSpring posted:I mean, dream scenario would be a side bar saying that the Immaculate Faith's acceptance only came about after decades of arguing in the early days of its existence that trans people can only fulfill their role in the Perfected Hierarchy by being able to transition and supported in that regard, but oh well, poo poo's done and over with. Thing is that kind of assumes a fantasy world with a completely different background, religion and culture than our own would even have any kind of problem with trans people in the first place.  It doesn't strike me that anyone in the upper tiers of DB society would give a gently caress what your gender identity is(or what you change your physical sex to or represent yourself as, magically or otherwise), as long as it doesn't get in the way of producing the strong-blooded DB heirs the Realm needs. Strictly lesbian or homosexual(in terms of what kind of genitalia get rammed together) Dragonbloods might get lovely treatment for not doing their duty to the Realm, and some degree of monogamy might be encouraged to keep DB children in a stable family unit for optimal raising(in the cases where the actual raising isn't just handled by teachers and servants), but that's about the only place I can see our-world sexual politics impacting Realm sexual politics at all.
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Apr 7, 2019 19:46
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I think it's just me being annoyed that it's all centered on reverence of the imaginary dragon instead of the very real Luna. Wouldn't be much of a stretch to say, "Oh, Luna isn't directly worshiped by Immaculates but is highly respected for the work they do and as such respect trans people." I suppose it's why I like the Lunar book's handling of it better than Dragon-blood's. also yes I loving know the fantasy world would not have the same mores as ours, loving hell I'm not stupid, I already said I'm trans too, I get everything you're loving saying SunAndSpring fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 20:37
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For the average person it's much easier to prove that the Dragons exist than it is to prove that Luna exists, given that the Dragons... do things.
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Apr 7, 2019 20:55
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SunAndSpring posted:I think it's just me being annoyed that it's all centered on reverence of the imaginary dragon instead of the very real Luna. Wouldn't be much of a stretch to say, "Oh, Luna isn't directly worshiped by Immaculates but is highly respected for the work they do and as such respect trans people." I suppose it's why I like the Lunar book's handling of it better than Dragon-blood's. Personally I've never cared for the association between trans people - a very real thing often involving people who have no interest in being in a state of flux - and fictional or mythological god/desses who represent change and flux and therefore switch between man and woman and occasionally hermaphrodite. I don't want what I am to be pidgeonholed into always being associated with something mystical, agender trickster gods least of all. I want to be mundane.
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Apr 7, 2019 21:05
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SunAndSpring posted:I think it's just me being annoyed that it's all centered on reverence of the imaginary dragon instead of the very real Luna. Wouldn't be much of a stretch to say, "Oh, Luna isn't directly worshiped by Immaculates but is highly respected for the work they do and as such respect trans people." I suppose it's why I like the Lunar book's handling of it better than Dragon-blood's.
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Apr 7, 2019 21:31
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In practical terms, the Immaculate Faith is far more easily evidenced to the average person in Creation than the efficacy of Luna-worship. The followers of the Dragons have conquered the world, established a powerful society, and have magical martial arts that set gods to flight. Luna cults don't really have any more claim to direct divine intervention than the Realm does (both mostly have Exaltations to show for it) and the Realm is the power that bestrides the world like a colossus. In practical terms, treating the Immaculate texts as 'just bullshit, cannot be used as the social justification for anything' rather than 'the core social organizing principle of the most powerful and widespread culture in Creation' is just... that seems off-kilter to me. The Immaculate Faith can only be dismissed from our out of character standpoint, and Luna is just as fictional as the Immaculate Dragons in the end.
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Apr 7, 2019 21:43
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EthanSteele posted:it meant people kept yelling about how it meant you weren't actually strong, you were just using a magical spell called Nine-Aeon Thews to lift a thing? loving hell. I always thought that it was this particular dumb nerd slapfight that prompted the "charms aren't real, they're an abstraction" ruling. And, frankly, I am okay with the book taking a page to dunk on that species of brain spider.
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Apr 7, 2019 22:23
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I always thought that it was this particular dumb nerd slapfight that prompted the "charms aren't real, they're an abstraction" ruling. And, frankly, I am okay with the book taking a page to dunk on that species of brain spider.
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Apr 7, 2019 22:33
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Being an abstraction is completely unrelated to how many there are. I'm sure you know in your heart of hearts why there are so many.
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Apr 7, 2019 22:39
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Exalted 3rd Edition: Literally No One Cares About Thaumaturgy Thaumaturgy is explicitly lesser magic, a lesser power than Charms, Evocations or Sorcery. It's a unique sort of miracle that provides useful, working rituals for those who have a special tie to the occult world. Anyone who can do thaumaturgy is a thaumaturgist. It is unique, but it lacks in the versatility of Charms and the power of Sorcery. Most thaumaturgists (thaumaturge is the word from past editions, but whatevs) are people who, for no clear reason, can instinctually perform a single occult ritual that no one else really understands. All thaumaturgists are unique people, and their rituals tend to be as well. They often are the only ones able to perform their ritual, and if they die, it dies with them unless they manage to find another thaumaturgist to teach it to. Thaumaturgy cannot be learned from books, period. A ritual can only be passed on from one person directly to another via teaching and practice. For reasons. Observing the ritual or reaidng about it is not enough, because part of the ritual is a spiritual communion. Many thaumaturgists never share their rituals, often because they rely on their unique trick for income or to gain favor with the powerful. However, there are still places in which thaumaturgic rituals are traded, particularly places like Sijan, where the funerist orders require thaumaturgists as part of their work, and will pay heavily to recruit and train them for future generations. Sijan provides excellent homes, education and official rank as morticians for those that possess the knack for thaumaturgy. Other thaumaturgists might work as fortune tellers, exercists or shamans. Mortal thaumaturges are very rare. They are people wo have the Thaumaturgist merit. Any Exalt with Sorcery automatically gets that merit free, but mortal sorcerers do not. The Thaumaturgist merit also cannot be taught. This means it is, kind of weirdly, much easier for a mortal to learn sorcery (which is significantly more potent) than thaumaturgy. Apparently you are just either born with the knack or you aren't. Anyone with the merit can, however, learn thaumaturgic rituals. These are either one or two dots, with one dot being the easy ones (and costing 3 XP) while two dot rituals are somewhat more difficult or complex and cost 5. What rituals exist? Reading the Tea Leaves (1 or 2). The one dot ritual involves using tea to read your future. Whoever's future is getting read must empty tea leaves into a cup, meditate on the steam and reflections, then drink the tea while emptying the mind. When the tea is gone and only the leaves are left, the thaumaturgist then makes an Occult roll to determine their greater destiny. A greater destiny informs the target's next defining accomplishment - not a prediction of death, but of the next major course their life will take. For a more immediate future, telling the most important event the target will have that day, the difficulty goes up. Failure still gives an accurate result, but with very hazy details, and even when successful, often the thaumaturgist is unable to explain or understand the vision. They may see the person bump into a woman at a nearby dock, but don't know who the woman is or why the event matters. For two dots, you do the same thing but the flavors of tea can determine the best opportunities for success and failure within the next month. The thaumaturgist cannot give specific details or focus on specific types of things, but can generally see the largest failure or successes within a set period. Failure still gives accurate information, but it is hazy and potentially misinformed. Botching either ritual always gives misinformation. Tea readers are fairly common, and about one person in ten thousand will have the knack for it anywhere that tea culture exists. Unquenchable Flame (1). You can gather kindling and arrange it in a circle of rocks, speaking an instinctive word that lights the kindling even if it is soaking wet. If it is raining, the rain will refuse to even fall within five feet of the fire's edge. This is a fairly uncommon ritual, last seen over ten years ago in the hands of a Tenjosi Wetlands huntsman. Second Bread (1). You can take a loaf of bread and start tearing it up into little pieces based on your instincts, plus spend 1 WP. Your resulting bits feed twice as many people as the original loaf would have been able to. This gift has shown up about once a century ever since the rise of the Scarlet Empress. Most recently it was seen in the hands of a madman in Nexus, who would use old crusts to feed children until he was beaten into a coma by a Guildsman for slowing traffic. Exorcism (1 or 2). With the one dot ritual, you can spend a WP and do some chanting and rituals to try and drive out a ghost with an extended Occult action based on the ghost's Essence and Willpower. The ghost takes penalties the whole time, but you have to stay in Short range of it. Success pushes it back to the underworld, and you automatically fail if you are damaged by a Decisive attack or Crashed. The dot version requires you to have a specialty in demonology and a second specialty about the specific demon involved to force a demon out of any possessing host and into a clay vessel, cow or other proxy for a month and a day. The rolls are the same, but based on the Demon's Resolve instead of Essence. A sorcerer who has bound an exorcised demon can free it by commanding it out of the vessel, but they have to find the vessel first. A second two-dot variant instead forces a spirit to return to its sanctum, but it is much harder and only works for a single night, and you can only use it on a given spirit once per year-and-day. Exorcists are uncommon, but not extremely rare, and tend to be born near Shadowlands. Speak with Ozashun (2). This is a ritual that is only useful in the realm of Medo, where a stream runs through the mountains ten miles west of the capital. This stream is overlooked by Frozen Spring Pass, where it runs into a cave in the mountainside. This is where the being Ozashun can be called by those thaumaturgists that know the rite, on the night of the new moon, by thrusting a burning branch into the shore opposite and speaking the name of a child who trusts you. The darkness will grow deep and the stars will fade, forming the illusion of an ancient, wrinkled, toothless face. From the mouth will emerge a shadow on the water that resembles a fox or wolf. This is Ozashun, who knows all the secrets of the mountain and its stream, but only those things that have happened since the last new moon. For every question it answers, it gains the power to enter a child's dream and speak to them. Coincidentally, the mountains and specifically Frozen Spring Pass are full of the ghosts of children. The ritual is exceptionally rare, but has been recorded more than once among the hill peoples of Medo. Truly, thaumaturgy is a mighty, setting-bending power that must be strictly regulated and which you should absolutely not just ignore completely, forever. Next time: Quick Characters Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Apr 7, 2019 |
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Apr 7, 2019 22:46
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Those powers are actually pretty cool and flavorful! Good thing they've been sealed away where they can never interact with the playspace.
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Apr 7, 2019 22:48
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If the world is a flat disc of indeterminate size ruled by dynasties of magic elemental warriors, why would minor peasant rituals not be all over the place? It seems like exactly the sort of thing that fits Exalted.
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Apr 7, 2019 22:53
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I mean, I'm totally down with thaumaturgists being all over the place and don't think it'd actually change a drat thing because their rituals, while cool and flavorful, are considerably less powerful than, say, the presence of gods and their abilities, which are also all over the place. But for some reason it is actually easier to become a sorcerer than a thaumaturgist.
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Apr 7, 2019 22:55
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Nessus posted:Those powers are actually pretty cool and flavorful! Good thing they've been sealed away where they can never interact with the playspace. I remember when I added the "you can't spend Essence to turn rituals into flavorless cantrips" to the 2E errata and there was a thread half-full of people bitching that it was an assault on Exalted agency and coolness that you actually had to do something interesting and setting-based to perform hedge magic instead of just waving your hand and spending a magic point.
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Apr 7, 2019 22:55
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Arguably, minor magic rituals should just use skills. Bind spirits with Bureaucracy, ensure good crops with Craft (Wood), get mad gains with Athletics.
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Apr 7, 2019 23:02
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Mors Rattus posted:Second Bread (1). You can take a loaf of bread and start tearing it up into little pieces based on your instincts, plus spend 1 WP. Your resulting bits feed twice as many people as the original loaf would have been able to. This gift has shown up about once a century ever since the rise of the Scarlet Empress. Most recently it was seen in the hands of a madman in Nexus, who would use old crusts to feed children until he was beaten into a coma by a Guildsman for slowing traffic. Ha. Jesus. We get it. *Rolls eyes incredibly hard *
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Apr 7, 2019 23:15
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Ratoslov posted:Arguably, minor magic rituals should just use skills. Bind spirits with Bureaucracy, ensure good crops with Craft (Wood), get mad gains with Athletics. It might make sense if you could spurt your jizmoglobins in as a replacement for things that require sacrifices or offerings purely to "power the machine." Surely the blood of the Chosen could be an acceptable substitute for some poor goat.
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Apr 7, 2019 23:18
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That Old Tree posted:I remember when I added the "you can't spend Essence to turn rituals into flavorless cantrips" to the 2E errata and there was a thread half-full of people bitching that it was an assault on Exalted agency and coolness that you actually had to do something interesting and setting-based to perform hedge magic instead of just waving your hand and spending a magic point. That and the Resources costs to perform thaumaturgical rituals could prove ruinously-expensive. I mean you can't really call it "hedge magic" when you have to empty the treasury of a mid-sized kingdom every time you want to perform a minor miracle.
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Apr 7, 2019 23:20
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Being able to double the amount of food you have is absolutely a setting-bending power if everyone could learn it.
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Apr 7, 2019 23:40
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EthanSteele posted:Being able to double the amount of food you have is absolutely a setting-bending power if everyone could learn it. You're being sarcastic...right?
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Apr 8, 2019 00:30
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SirPhoebos posted:You're being sarcastic...right? I hope you are
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Apr 8, 2019 00:32
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SirPhoebos posted:You're being sarcastic...right? Now of course it does not ultimately make it so you can get food from nothing, but it means you can either get twice as much food out of the same agricultural input, or the same amount of food from half the agricultural input.
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Apr 8, 2019 00:36
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You couldn't put it into widespread use though. Not enough to feed an army, for example.
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Apr 8, 2019 00:44
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Yes, that's the whole point of the thing the devs did with thaumaturgy in this edition. Which was basically pointless, because they both made thaumaturgic rituals far more potentially setting-distorting by inventing Second Bread, and then said 'but nobody can get it.' It just became a way of saying 'look how gritty Creation is! This miracle was destroyed by a Guildsman!'
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Apr 8, 2019 00:58
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Tibalt posted:You couldn't put it into widespread use though. Not enough to feed an army, for example. And if it was a real big loaf to begin with... (I'm only doing this because it'd probably annoy Morke)
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Apr 8, 2019 01:38
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Cooked Auto posted:Neotech 2 I assume Neotech is either a game that buries all the real setting detail in the back half of the book, or one of those games that's a genre toolkit with some baseline assumptions built into the rules, like GoO's Ex Machina. (And D&D, of course.)
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Apr 8, 2019 01:51
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