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Prettypanda
Nov 11, 2008

It’s two different scopes. The eclipse is at 350mm and the closeup is 2000mm.

I hope your weather clears soon. I had one night after my mount was delivered that I was able to image, but the forecast is all clouds for the next few days so I’m working on getting all the wiring set up well. I had an incident last year where a usb cable got snagged and the mount managed to rip the wires out of the camera end of the cable.

e: Can't start a new page without a picture of something! This is a widefield shot of the area around the Flaming Star nebula. It's ~9.5 hours of LRBG and another 8 of H-alpha

Prettypanda fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Mar 23, 2019

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Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
My SV102 Access is officially ordered. :dance:
Spoke directly with Stellarvue and they were willing to sell me the zygo test on it as well (they no longer officially offer it on the Access line, but they tested a batch that came in from their manufacturer just to insure they met the quality SV desired) Nice folks. Cannot wait to finally get out and do some viewing.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
Dumb scope calibration questions:
With the german equatorial mount, I have to rotate the RA 90 degrees for the polar finder to have the 12 o'clock at the top, basically the scope is on one side and the counterweight bar is parallel with the ground. First off, should that be necessary?

Then I place polaris where it should be in the "clock ring" according to my app that tells me where it should be. I understand that much. That sets polar alignment. At that point should I loosen the clutches and center polaris in the finderscope & telescope?

Now when I begin star alignment (2 or 3) what should the RA be when I begin? As I understand it, the computer will go to the general spot in the sky where the target star resides, but what spot on the scale should the RA be PRIOR to starting that process?

This is my first computerized mount and first G.E. (Have been using a manual dob till now) and I feel I am missing some obvious things.



Edit: I think I figured it partly out: I need to set the home position up.

Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 28, 2019

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]
It's fine for it to be sideways, I assume that's how it opens up so you can see through with the polarscope. That's how my EQ6-R and AVX work.

Polar alignment - you should not be using the clutches at all, you adjust with the adjustment screws down near where it attaches to the tripod. Unless I am misunderstanding you.

Can't help you on the star alignment, unfortunately.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.

hannibal posted:

It's fine for it to be sideways, I assume that's how it opens up so you can see through with the polarscope. That's how my EQ6-R and AVX work.

Polar alignment - you should not be using the clutches at all, you adjust with the adjustment screws down near where it attaches to the tripod. Unless I am misunderstanding you.

Can't help you on the star alignment, unfortunately.

I have to loosen the RA clutch in order to turn the polar scope's "clock" to be noon-at-top in order to properly place Polaris along the specific spot on the ring. I get that much, but what I was having a mental lapse with is the "parked/home" position prior to doing star alignments.

I think I found the proper way to set up home/park position of the RA and DEC, but now I am having issues with APT setting the park position. Shift-clicking the "park" button is how to tell it to treat the mount's position as parked. However when I do a trial goto run and then tell it to park, it is going to places very much NOT what I just told it the park position was.

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.
These pictures continue to amaze me, and that you can see these spectacular features out in the cosmos from down here on Earth without a building-sized telescope.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
Finally, the unboxening.




I need to properly scan the Zygo they did on it and see what everyone can make of it. Looks like a mishmash of SETI-like graphical thingimabobs. Does say 0.989 Strehl, which I gather is decent. Happy bonus is the old "Stellarvue" logo on the dew shield rather than "Access".



Mood: Afraid to take off lens cap, lest the glass gets it's first spooge.

Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Mar 30, 2019

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
:psyduck:

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family

Zinjnok posted:

Its for photography only. It has a short backfocus, so you wouldn't be able to fit a diagonal and eyepiece and still bring it into focus.

For scopes i have a 8' Celestron EdgeHD and Meade 6000 70mm. Mount is a Celestron CGX, and I have a ZWO ASI294 and 178 for cameras. The data for that was collected with a FSQ106 at Deep Sky West. I subscribe to one of the setups there, but they have the Horsehead/Flame data and two other sets available for free if you want to take a shot at editing them.

I'm about to pull the trigger on ordering the color ASI294 and just happened to see your post first. How do you feel about it? Any complaints or issues with it? I'm always wary about the software that runs these CCD cameras but ZWO seems to have a pretty great reputation (I've never personally used one before).

Prettypanda
Nov 11, 2008

Golden-i posted:

I'm about to pull the trigger on ordering the color ASI294 and just happened to see your post first. How do you feel about it? Any complaints or issues with it? I'm always wary about the software that runs these CCD cameras but ZWO seems to have a pretty great reputation (I've never personally used one before).

It's my first cooled astro camera so I don't have much to compare it to, but I'm happy with it so far. I haven't had any troubles with connectivity or lock ups during imaging or really any issues at all so far. You don't need bias frames during calibration, just darks and a flats that have been calibrated with their own darks. It does have a starburst that's very visible in a stretched dark frame, but it goes away with calibration. Really my only complaint is that I want to shoot narrowband now so I'll have to spend more on a mono camera.

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family

Zinjnok posted:

It's my first cooled astro camera so I don't have much to compare it to, but I'm happy with it so far. I haven't had any troubles with connectivity or lock ups during imaging or really any issues at all so far. You don't need bias frames during calibration, just darks and a flats that have been calibrated with their own darks. It does have a starburst that's very visible in a stretched dark frame, but it goes away with calibration. Really my only complaint is that I want to shoot narrowband now so I'll have to spend more on a mono camera.

Gotcha. That's good to know. I thought this might be a good middle-ground between where I was with my unmodded DSLR and getting a pricier mono, but I really don't think I'm quite good enough at this stuff to jump into that. I may start with the ASI294MC and a relatively broad filter for basic noise reduction (I've got my eye on the Orion Skyglow Imaging filter) and picking up a more narrow-band filter for nebulae/clusters once I'm more comfortable with this process.

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]

Hasselblad posted:

I have to loosen the RA clutch in order to turn the polar scope's "clock" to be noon-at-top in order to properly place Polaris along the specific spot on the ring. I get that much, but what I was having a mental lapse with is the "parked/home" position prior to doing star alignments.

I think I found the proper way to set up home/park position of the RA and DEC, but now I am having issues with APT setting the park position. Shift-clicking the "park" button is how to tell it to treat the mount's position as parked. However when I do a trial goto run and then tell it to park, it is going to places very much NOT what I just told it the park position was.


Oh sure, gotcha. You don't need the clutches at all during polar alignment, because it doesn't matter where they point. You're adjusting the base only. When you're aligned, you set the RA/dec motors to the default positions (so that the scope is pointed at Polaris). So you'd probably just rotate the RA motor back up from sideways to up and down.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.

hannibal posted:

Oh sure, gotcha. You don't need the clutches at all during polar alignment, because it doesn't matter where they point. You're adjusting the base only. When you're aligned, you set the RA/dec motors to the default positions (so that the scope is pointed at Polaris). So you'd probably just rotate the RA motor back up from sideways to up and down.

Yup. Once I learned you could set it at the 12 o'clock position via a small level on the counterweight bar, and then on the dovetail it worked out. At least trial-run-wise as the setup still has not been outside yet. Trying to determine the illuminated cross hair eyepiece I am going to get. The ones with better illuminator pieces tend to have single cross hairs, while I really like the idea of the double cross hair for alignment on a star. All of the ones on amazon look like they have poo poo manufactured lights.

Prettypanda
Nov 11, 2008

Hasselblad posted:

Yup. Once I learned you could set it at the 12 o'clock position via a small level on the counterweight bar, and then on the dovetail it worked out. At least trial-run-wise as the setup still has not been outside yet. Trying to determine the illuminated cross hair eyepiece I am going to get. The ones with better illuminator pieces tend to have single cross hairs, while I really like the idea of the double cross hair for alignment on a star. All of the ones on amazon look like they have poo poo manufactured lights.

If you’re going to be doing your alignment for imaging most programs have a way to project a crosshair over a live view image. It will also eliminate the possibility of bumping yourself out of polar alignment when you have to switch from an eyepiece to the imaging equipment.

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]
Personally I got a Polemaster last year and haven't looked back, but I never do visual so I always have a laptop, etc. You could also check out Sharpcap or Astrotortilla's polar alignment procedures. But the Polemaster is so easy and produces good results quickly that I can't imagine improving on it much. (as long as you are willing to pay for it, anyway)

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
Only looking for visual with the refractor for the moment. Star alignment mainly for goto. May mount my D700 piggyback on the refractor’s rings and do imaging with the Sigma 150, until I get around to getting a field flattener and t mount for the dslr.

Tyrgle
Apr 3, 2009
Nap Ghost

Hasselblad posted:

Yup. Once I learned you could set it at the 12 o'clock position via a small level on the counterweight bar, and then on the dovetail it worked out. At least trial-run-wise as the setup still has not been outside yet. Trying to determine the illuminated cross hair eyepiece I am going to get. The ones with better illuminator pieces tend to have single cross hairs, while I really like the idea of the double cross hair for alignment on a star. All of the ones on amazon look like they have poo poo manufactured lights.

The cheap Astromania one on Amazon has the double cross hair. The optics probably aren't great, but all it's for is putting a star between some cross hairs.

My mount has star alignment and a polar align mode, so I've had good results (>60s unguided photos) just eyeballing Polaris and then running the polar alignment program once or twice with a reticle. It's physically difficult get the alignment just right by turning the screws, especially the altitude knobs, so I'm not sure I could do any better with drift alignment or a camera. It's fiddly enough that I don't think the single cross hair would really matter.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.

Tyrgle posted:

The cheap Astromania one on Amazon has the double cross hair. The optics probably aren't great, but all it's for is putting a star between some cross hairs.

My mount has star alignment and a polar align mode, so I've had good results (>60s unguided photos) just eyeballing Polaris and then running the polar alignment program once or twice with a reticle. It's physically difficult get the alignment just right by turning the screws, especially the altitude knobs, so I'm not sure I could do any better with drift alignment or a camera. It's fiddly enough that I don't think the single cross hair would really matter.

I ordered the SVbony one. Figured I could always replace the light with a Stellarvue one down the line if need be.

Binary Badger
Oct 11, 2005

Trolling Link for a decade


Hello astrogoons, it is time for my yearly post in this thread regarding NEAF.

http://www.rocklandastronomy.com/neaf.html

NEAF 2019 is this weekend, Saturday and Sunday.. if you are anywhere in NY/NJ/Connecticut and are interested in astronomy, it sure couldn't hurt to visit.

The Exhibitor's Room will have lots of local astronomy vendors; Celestron, Meade, and Canon send reps and sometimes new products to show off. One vendor that always shows up sells plushie versions of internal organs.

SpaceX and ULA usually send someone to sit there and look bored for the weekend as well.

Weather permitting, there's usually an area set up with volunteers pointing their scopes at the Sun for either direct viewing or through a hooded laptop of some sort, pretty fun to see live prominences (though they're not as fast-moving as you would think..)

Sunday's guest in the Celestron theatre will be Alan Stern, Principal Investigator for the New Horizons probe, he will be talking (and hopefully bringing some images) from the Ultima Thule encounter.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
Explorer Scientific EPs are on sale. Picked up a 6.7mm 82 degree.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

I picked up an ES 82 30mm not long ago and got a chance to test it recently. Heavy as hell and I have to slide it partway out of the focuser to get the right amount of travel, but absolutely gorgeous views. Worth the price and a significant upgrade over the generic GSO 30mm I was using before.

That night was the first where I bagged the Rosette(naked-eye too!) and the Flame.

I can’t reasonably justify it financially right now, but the next addition to my list would be the 2” ES 82 18mm. Anybody have any experience with that one?

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
Wish I had the cash to snag a ES 2x focal extender. I too have a ES 30mm/82 and would love to use it as a 15mm for that eye relief. You're not kidding about the weight, the thing is like a hand grenade. It would be about 3.5 lbs to use the extender with it.

Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Apr 6, 2019

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]
No NEAIC/NEAF for me this year :( I had a good time last year, especially at NEAIC.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
First light with the SV102. As dim as I thought that street light was, it was like the sun by the time I got set up and eyes adjusted.
I learned that my DIY polar scope illuminator was a mite too bright. Uncertain how to mod it down a bit. I could not make out the entire little dipper/polaris before clouds began to roll back in, so I did a best guess, made a couple adjustments and swung to look at some of the stars I COULD see in the Big Dipper. My astigmatism was apparent, but not terribad. The 82*30mm and 6.7mm worked well eye-relief wise and even with the thin clouds beginning to blot them out, I could make out the tiniest pinpoints around the brightest stars.

For the last 8 years we've had very limited clouds and spectacular night skies, but since I got this setup the backlog of clouds have unleashed.

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family
The weather here's gonna be pretty dismal for at least the next two weeks as well, but last night was clear so I was able to try out the new camera. Picked up the ASI294MC-PRO and the Orion Skyglow Imaging filter, spent a couple hours getting the software set up, then spent another hour trying to figure out why my tracking wasn't anywhere close to accurate until I realized that I'm a thundering dumbass and haven't had the scope out since daylight savings time started, so the mount thought that it was an hour earlier than it was. Oops.

Anyways, by that point the skies cleared up and everything was looking good.

...Except now there's a brand-new, fancy-pants LED streetlight less than 100 feet from the only spot on my property that I can use my scope. :sigh: It's so goddamn bright, too, directly north of me. Guess I need to find somewhere else to shoot from... Once the weather clears up in a few weeks (hopefully) I'll try some targets to the south and see if I can get anything.

FWIW I was able to get everything working and see M51 on just a single 2-minute exposure, although it was very washed out by the streetlight and no color was visible, just faint cloud bands.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.

Golden-i posted:

The weather here's gonna be pretty dismal for at least the next two weeks as well, but last night was clear so I was able to try out the new camera. Picked up the ASI294MC-PRO and the Orion Skyglow Imaging filter, spent a couple hours getting the software set up, then spent another hour trying to figure out why my tracking wasn't anywhere close to accurate until I realized that I'm a thundering dumbass and haven't had the scope out since daylight savings time started, so the mount thought that it was an hour earlier than it was. Oops.

Anyways, by that point the skies cleared up and everything was looking good.

...Except now there's a brand-new, fancy-pants LED streetlight less than 100 feet from the only spot on my property that I can use my scope. :sigh: It's so goddamn bright, too, directly north of me. Guess I need to find somewhere else to shoot from... Once the weather clears up in a few weeks (hopefully) I'll try some targets to the south and see if I can get anything.

FWIW I was able to get everything working and see M51 on just a single 2-minute exposure, although it was very washed out by the streetlight and no color was visible, just faint cloud bands.

My fancy LED streetlight is directly south of me. Pretty much ruined views of Orion when at it's highest, at least from my driveway. Back where I plan to create a stable place for my scope on the other end of the property it SHOULD be far enough to be minimally bothersome. But that's as long as I do not look directly at my neighbor's ridiculous LED front walk lamps. People should put that crap on timers or motion detectors.

By the time our weather clears, the moon will likely be pretty large, so I guess I will plan for that and maybe some planetary stuff.

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family

Hasselblad posted:

My fancy LED streetlight is directly south of me. Pretty much ruined views of Orion when at it's highest, at least from my driveway. Back where I plan to create a stable place for my scope on the other end of the property it SHOULD be far enough to be minimally bothersome. But that's as long as I do not look directly at my neighbor's ridiculous LED front walk lamps. People should put that crap on timers or motion detectors.

By the time our weather clears, the moon will likely be pretty large, so I guess I will plan for that and maybe some planetary stuff.

I feel that pain. I've got some friends with property not far away and might try out things over there, it's just a huge pain to have to pack all this gear up and pray that I don't forget anything vital.

Any suggestions for DSOs towards the south that a beginner like me could practice with this time of year? I'm at pretty much exactly 45degN latitude, Orion would have been a great choice but it's just dropping behind the nearby trees to the west after the sun sets. Otherwise, the southern sky is mostly clear for me and my neighbors that direction are all nice enough to turn their lights off at night.

Luneshot
Mar 10, 2014

Golden-i posted:

I feel that pain. I've got some friends with property not far away and might try out things over there, it's just a huge pain to have to pack all this gear up and pray that I don't forget anything vital.

Any suggestions for DSOs towards the south that a beginner like me could practice with this time of year? I'm at pretty much exactly 45degN latitude, Orion would have been a great choice but it's just dropping behind the nearby trees to the west after the sun sets. Otherwise, the southern sky is mostly clear for me and my neighbors that direction are all nice enough to turn their lights off at night.

This time of year is unfortunately pretty sparse for bright DSOs to the south! In the southwest, you might be able to nab a ton of beautiful star clusters in the area around Canis Major (M41, M46, M47,M48). Directly overhead should be M44 (Praesepe). NGC 3242 (Ghost of Jupiter) is a bright planetary in Hydra, but you'll need high magnification. Same for NGC 2818 and NGC 3132 (planetary nebulae). M104 (Sombrero Galaxy) is relatively easy to find if you can identify Corvus. If you want a challenge, try NGC 4038/4039 (Antennae Galaxies), also in Corvus. Could also try for NGC 3115, the Spindle Galaxy, in Sextans.

You're almost certainly too far north for Omega Centauri and Centaurus A, but M83 should be low in the south after midnight.

Really, spring is prime galaxy season- Leo/Virgo/Coma/Ursa Major, which are more 'overhead' than 'south'.

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family
Thanks! That gives me a lot to think about. The Sombrero galaxy is in pretty much exactly the right part of the sky right now, so that'd be a great starting point.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/apr/10/black-hole-picture-captured-for-first-time-in-space-breakthrough

Chance of this being a result of someone sneezing on a lens?

Dr. Despair
Nov 4, 2009


39 perfect posts with each roll.

Thankfully radio telescopes are relatively insensitive to snot

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
When cosmic microwave background radiation was discovered, it was assumed “it must be pigeon poo poo on the antenna”.

The pigeon trap that eliminated this variable is in the Smithsonian’s collection.

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
So much cloudiness. So many loving clouds.
I have yet to even do a polar alignment.

Wife wants to take the trailer down to southern Utah at the end of May. Figured I'd take the refractor with, because Moab needs the rain.

Hasselblad fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Apr 14, 2019

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005





Was in Moab about a month ago. Bought my first pair of binos to do some star gazing, bought a tripod to try to do a longer exposure... Nothing but clouds for 3 nights. First night was like sleeping in a tent in a hurricane, minus the rain. Hope you have better luck than I did!

Hasselblad
Dec 13, 2017

My dumbass opinions are only outweighed by my racism.

No one forgot that I exist to defend violent cops, champion chaining down immigrants, and have trash opinions on cooking.
I mean at least the state won't be on fire as much this summer*. Less smoke. We have that going for us, I suppose.

(I expect CA to be it's typical burning self and gifting us what smoke we do get)

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family
First night of clear weather and it's a drat full moon to the south, streetlight to the north. So, I decided to see what was straight above me.




M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy
ASI294MC-Pro 57@60sec
8" Newtonian Refllector @1000mm
Stacked and processed in PixInsight

It's not perfect, but I'm really happy with it considering it was a full moon in a Bortle 7/8 area! First time stacking with PixInsight and you guys were right, it's just so much better than DSS (not that I doubted you).

Some issues with this one -

-I'm pretty sure that the glow in the upper left is due to me not getting any flat calibration shots. The imaging program kept dropping them and I was just too drat tired to figure it out. I'll solve that one before the next time I go out.
-It's a little too blue, I think. I'm pretty sure the color calibration on my laptop's display is hosed. I'll have to get a good monitor for photo editing.

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]
Yeah, that is a nice Whirlpool, especially with those conditions (that I face regularly as well). I think you're right on with the top left being some sort of optical issue that flats should fix, and the color balance being a little off. Maybe check your color calibration in PI - did you do anything like SCNR? (There's not a lot of pure 'green' in space so you can usually adjust/remove it)

But overall it's pretty great. Goes to show what is possible even in heavily light polluted areas. Not everyone has the time to drag their stuff out to a dark site (especially when, for me, those sites are 1.5-2 hrs away at minimum).

Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family
Thanks!

I didn't use SCNR, though I probably will in the future. I made adjustments to the color saturation mostly be eye, watching the histograms to get a feel for how they reflect what I'm seeing. I'll need to figure out this color issue or just get a new monitor, which at this point is pretty overdue anyways.

slidebite
Nov 6, 2005

Good egg
:colbert:

A semi-local guy has a Celesctron A-VX mount for sale, about 50% off new. Looks to be in great shape, firmware updated, all manuals. I'm thinking of buying this and putting my 8SE tube on it and getting my toes wet for astrophotography.

Decent mount if I can get it for a good price?

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Golden-i
Sep 18, 2006

One big, stumpy family

slidebite posted:

A semi-local guy has a Celesctron A-VX mount for sale, about 50% off new. Looks to be in great shape, firmware updated, all manuals. I'm thinking of buying this and putting my 8SE tube on it and getting my toes wet for astrophotography.

Decent mount if I can get it for a good price?

I've got the Advanced VX that I use with an 8" tube, it's a really good intermediate mount. I have it coupled with a tracking camera and it still has some issues with tracking near zenith, I imagine that's due to the relatively tiny motions required, but otherwise it's pretty accurate once you figure out the process to get it aligned.

Also, if you live somewhere cold, the handset screen is completely unreadable once it hits a bit under freezing. I can't use it under about 20F, which isn't a big deal for some people at all but defines about half the year's nights in Minnesota, so just something worth mentioning.

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