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I'm phoneposting so it's a pain to check what spells you have available but freezing cloud is my pivot spell of choice when transitioning from starting book to level 9 stuff, assuming it's available. Ideally backed up by a targeted spell that can hit things immune to cold and blast while the cloud is out but I feel like the options are fairly interchangeable for that
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 04:23 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 03:37 |
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Araganzar posted:Magic Dart + Battlesphere will last you until you are into level 9 spells. I would probably get rid of bolt of magma, searing ray, and dazzling spray and get bolt of cold and force lance. Bolt of cold is good in shoals where it will leave behind freezing clouds over water. It's also good in snake where you have a lot of opportunities to line guys up in corridors and narrow spaces, and naga are slow so they can be easily positioned. About 6-8 cold would support, I would keep pushing conj and fire in the hopes you get bolt of fire, ignition, and firestorm. You already have iron shot and shatter. I mistyped, I’m a faerie dragon, not a felid. I don’t think my translocations is that good
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 04:41 |
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So is enemy chance to resist your spells based on your skills as well as their stats? I died being a little clumsy trying to sleep/confuse a hydra.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 04:46 |
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Gorelab posted:So is enemy chance to resist your spells based on your skills as well as their stats? I died being a little clumsy trying to sleep/confuse a hydra. Yes. It’s your spell power — determined by relevant spell school, in this case, hexes, spellcasting skill and intelligence, plus whatever equipment or mutations you have increasing the power of your spells — compared to the monster’s magic resist. If you’re heavily dependent on hexes, getting more spell power is extremely important, though there will always be some things you can’t hex no matter how high your spellpower gets, so you’d better have a back up plan. Edit: Note, there are some spells that don’t check magic resistance. Mephitic cloud, for example, doesn’t care about magic resistance. It’s completely neutralized by poison resistance, and checks HD (hit dice, something like the monster’s overall power level). Metabolic Englaciation similarly is completely neutralized by cold resistance and checks against HD instead of MR. Meph cloud’s chance to confuse isn’t affected by spell power because it’s a cloud, but Metabolic Englaciation’s chance to slow, and the duration of the slow, is dependent on power. Another Edit: You can check the power of your spells on the screen that shows all the spells you’ve memorized. The number of #s isn’t a linear thing, each one represents more power than the last. Some hexes also have a hidden boost in power. Slow is a good example and this is one reason it’s a better spell than it looks. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Apr 22, 2019 |
# ? Apr 22, 2019 04:54 |
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FR: enchanting a cursed weapon uncurses it. Could've sworn this used to be in the game. Burnt my only enchant scroll trying to get rid of a -3 whip
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 05:24 |
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It really did used to be in the game, but was removed because ???. ?rcurse is so plentiful that I'm not sure what it's 'balancing' other than unlucky early game wields/wears, anyway. (And in that case the balance is that you have one fewer enchant scroll for better weapons/armor)
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 05:43 |
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I've been thinking for a while that the game has more or less reached a point where identification is largely a formality and cursing should change purpose. Most of the harmful items are more annoying than deadly if you are careful about when you equip-ID them, and you can get away with use-IDing most potions and scrolls by the time you hit Temple. I'd like to see cursed equipment reworked into 'this item is most powerful that normal, but is cursed and re-curses itself upon equip'
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 05:52 |
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Arivia posted:I mistyped, Im a faerie dragon, not a felid. I dont think my translocations is that good You still want cblink if you're doing more than 3-4 runes. Probably enough blink scrolls to get you to Zot otherwise. I wouldn't go into extended without having Cblink and being on the way to Singularity though. Heithinn Grasida posted:So that’s why blade of disaster is charms, not hexes. It’s intended to be a strong personal buff that “reaver” types (from the old background that was a melee start with a conjurations spell book) want to learn, but that’s a buff the player actually has to think about and interact with tactically rather than being just a straight increase in the numbers on their stat sheet. Now that permabuffs are in and are common, perhaps blade of disaster should change. I still prefer it as conjurations/charms spell because hexes is already so amazing that it doesn’t really need any new spells. Conjurations isn’t a common choice for hybrids, but it’s a character type that I play frequently and really enjoy, so I’d like to have some more incentives to build that kind of character. The issue here is Conjuration is not a common choice for hybrids for a reason. Splitting your xp into both weapons and spells as primary sources of damage is not generally a successful strategy in this game. The useful charms for a hybrid (repel missile, spec weapon, regeneration, shroud, song, swiftness, ozo's) are all level 3 or lower. This requires an investment of about 4-6 charms in dragon scale armor. Similarly the useful conjurations (dazzling spray, meph cloud, conjure flame) are also low level. Therefore your niche for this spell is not a hybrid but a primary caster who happens to have good weapon apts and leftover xp. That doesn't mean it has to be that way. I agree the spell works well as a charm and I can see where you are going with this thematically. Charms and Hexes used to be one school, Enchantments, and when they split the kind of spell you are talking about was lost from Charms. It would be really nice if you could be an effective hybrid without diving into hexes. However, at this point the spell isn't terribly accessible to hybrids as both charms and conjurations offer the hybrid precious little meat between levels 3 and 6 and Hexes offer tremendously more utility. I think to support this you need more spells on the ladder to pull people into this way of playing and some need to be as attractive as Silence or fill the same role. I like the idea of in-combat or just-before-combat short term charms. One could be a brand spell that lets you pick the brand including some uncommon ones like antimagic or vampiric, or brand that also gives resistance of the opposite element. You could have spells that offer or enhance riposte and cleaving. I think they'd have to be high level so people don't just pick them up in addition to hexes, and so they impact your MP budget. Originally this was handled by anti-cross training but that turned out to be incredibly annoying.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 06:37 |
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i do hybrid conjurations all the time, the real issue is that if you want to augment your damage output and you have conjurations access already...
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 07:19 |
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So in Gooncrawl offline tiles, the mouse controls are very different; clicking on items drops them, clicking on tiles does nothing? Is there a way I can get the controls to be more like Trunk? It's not a huge deal, but I keep dropping scrolls instead of reading them. I looked through a guide to the options file, but I didn't see anything.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 08:05 |
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Araganzar posted:You still want cblink if you're doing more than 3-4 runes. Probably enough blink scrolls to get you to Zot otherwise. I wouldn't go into extended without having Cblink and being on the way to Singularity though. We might have a difference in terminology. When I say “hybrid” I mean a spectrum of characters from those that get around ten levels in a single casting school all the way to characters casting tornado or singularity in depths. To me, a caster is a character that only uses its weapon to kill easy enemies, if at all, a melee character uses pretty much only its weapon with perhaps just a few very low level spells and a hybrid regularly uses its weapon, but also has at least modest investment in magic. I play hybrids with heavy investment in conjurations a lot. I think you’re selling the play style short. I don’t think a DE with 20 in long bows is weaker than a full DE caster, and similarly, I think a pure caster HE isn’t really better than one in dragon armor, a shield and the ability to swing a good long blade, but that can still cast chain lightning. Certainly if you’re speed running, you want to just stick to one primary way of dealing damage. But if you have good stats and aptitudes, or are following a god that boosts them (Oka, Ash, Veh, Chei) and you’re clearing each level, the way experience works in Crawl means you’ll have plenty available to be able to deal good damage with both weapons and conjurations while maintaining decent levels of defense. Aside from any kind of VM, IE or Wz, or DE with any caster start, FE^WJC is a unique way to play a hybrid that has a good skillset from early on. Get enough conjurations and fire for conjure flame and sticky flame, then start training your weapon. WJC’s whirlwind works beautifully with the FE spellbook. WJC isn’t as overtly powerful for a conjuror hybrid later on, but the actives will always be great, and the ability to reposition while dealing damage, or gain a tile of space whenever you need it will never stop being useful. All that said, I agree that charms needs a few more mid to high level spells to attract deep investment from hybrids given what’s offered in schools like hexes, transmutations, translocations, necromancy or summoning. I wrote the concept for a few other spells, but never coded them because programming is hard and life is busy.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 08:22 |
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What's the point of Dispel Undead when (if) you can just cast Iron Shot instead? 3d32 damage at max power seems worse than 9d19, although it is only one school and has a lower max power requirement. But if you can already cast Iron Shot at a high level is there any reason to use Dispel Undead?
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 10:16 |
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fool_of_sound posted:I've been thinking for a while that the game has more or less reached a point where identification is largely a formality and cursing should change purpose. Most of the harmful items are more annoying than deadly if you are careful about when you equip-ID them, and you can get away with use-IDing most potions and scrolls by the time you hit Temple.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 10:27 |
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icantfindaname posted:What's the point of Dispel Undead when (if) you can just cast Iron Shot instead? 3d32 damage at max power seems worse than 9d19, although it is only one school and has a lower max power requirement. But if you can already cast Iron Shot at a high level is there any reason to use Dispel Undead? You don’t need dispel undead if you can already cast iron shot at high power. Dispel undead is really good though, because it’s only one school, it’s a lower level, and it can’t miss. I wouldn’t take necromancy just to learn dispel undead, but it’s part of a really nice package. Does anyone have experience playing online on ios? I can’t get my keyboard to work in tiles. I can ssh in and play on console, but I’m really not used to console and it feels so weird and bad. What’s the deal with the experimental vampires? Do they still switch between the two states the same way as before, or is there some new mechanic other than hunger? I like the stat and aptitude spread of vampires a lot, but I just hate dealing with hunger for them.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 10:45 |
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Jedi425 posted:So in Gooncrawl offline tiles, the mouse controls are very different; clicking on items drops them, clicking on tiles does nothing? Is there a way I can get the controls to be more like Trunk? It's not a huge deal, but I keep dropping scrolls instead of reading them. I looked through a guide to the options file, but I didn't see anything. I've mentioned this before but I find after a while offline tiles gets confused and thinks your Ctrl or shift keys are stuck down when they're not. This result in behaviour like you describe, the default behaviour should be like web tiles. I find pressing Ctrl and shift a few times into a long play session "clears" whatever the problem is and clicks act normally afterward until it happens again.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 10:53 |
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Heithinn Grasida posted:It’s turns. The spell pretty strongly favors attacking quickly, since your weapon’s base damage is only a part of the damage equation.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 11:33 |
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I think you’re selling the play style short. I don’t think a DE with 20 in long bows is weaker than a full DE caster, and similarly, I think a pure caster HE isn’t really better than one in dragon armor, a shield and the ability to swing a good long blade, but that can still cast chain lightning. Certainly if you’re speed running, you want to just stick to one primary way of dealing damage. But if you have good stats and aptitudes, or are following a god that boosts them (Oka, Ash, Veh, Chei) and you’re clearing each level, the way experience works in Crawl means you’ll have plenty available to be able to deal good damage with both weapons and conjurations while maintaining decent levels of defenses Not saying it won't work, I'm saying Crawl is a very hard game and asking players to change what they see as successful strategies can be an uphill struggle. I've definitely played this way. My DrAc used battlesphere all game and was about to get Iron Shot when he died. But it's not a common playstyle and on top of that it works well for only a small group of god/race combos. This places it in a pretty narrow niche. That combined with the low occurrence of the spell in-game means the main impact on me has been two games where Vehumet offered this spell instead of one of the other almost universally good 6th level spells. Those 6th level spells are very important if you haven't had floor god help and Vehumet doesn't need the equivalent of Oka's -1 hat at that level of offering. If you want people to test the spell, make it far more readily available. Put it in conjurations, battle, and enchantments. I and others will try it, take it out when you're satisfied. This would have been awesome for my DrAc and he probably wouldn't have splatted in Depths with it. If you can make that happen I will pay it forward by winning a DrAc with this spell as well as coding and submitting one or two of my branding or stoneskin type spell ideas in May.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 14:31 |
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PMush Perfect posted:Part of early-game is balanced around the risk-reward of whether or not to start putting things on before you can be sure you can get them off again. Not saying that's a reason not to change how things work, but it adds an interesting axis of early game decision-making that would need to be replaced if curses shifted into more of a mid-game kind of problem. I don't totally agree. Sometimes the early game is over for a character cause you equipped a lovely cursed weapon and theres nothing you can do. Removing the Id game would put more emphasis on knowing how to handle mobs in combat over getting lucky that the 3 stack of potions in your bag was healing and not exp for some xomforsaken reason.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 14:38 |
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Captainsalami posted:I don't totally agree. Sometimes the early game is over for a character cause you equipped a lovely cursed weapon and theres nothing you can do. Removing the Id game would put more emphasis on knowing how to handle mobs in combat over getting lucky that the 3 stack of potions in your bag was healing and not exp for some xomforsaken reason. You mean nothing you can do other than not leaving your starter weapon for an unidentified one without having remove curse available? Deciding to equip or not equip a runed war axe on D1 is an interesting choice that may win or lose the game for you. Same with spending all your money on an unided randart scale mail on D4. Either way it will be memorable and you'll remember that as a consequence of the decision you made rather than it being purely random and meaningless. Remove the ID mechanic and this game becomes much less attractive to me. Unidentified items create most of the interesting and meaningful in the early game. And if you were serious about winning or reducing the randomness in the early game you could have started with a war axe or another viable D1-D7 weapon.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 15:06 |
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Gonna have to agree with Araganzar there. Equipping a random glowy/runed weapon with no Remove Curse at hand is a conscious gamble. Often enough, it pays. Sometimes, it doesn't. Either way, though, you can't really blame anyone but yourself for making it. To the best of my knowledge, there's no mechanic that will force an un-ID'd weapon into your hand without your say-so.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 15:14 |
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I am sad that Okawaru's ammo returning doesn't work with the Damnation crossbow. Probably for the best, especially because you can fire it at the ground with . to avoid blowing yourself up with it. edit: if you don't like wear-IDing things/curses, go play Hellcrawl.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 15:41 |
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After reading the dragon warrior 4 lp, a merchant class start with no combat skills, gozag and like 10 Id scrolls would be interesting.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 16:26 |
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Gozag is p. cool and a god that benefits more from getting him early than most of them do, so I wouldn't mind seeing that included. It wouldn't be much work anyway.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 16:41 |
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Heithinn Grasida posted:You don’t need dispel undead if you can already cast iron shot at high power. Dispel undead is really good though, because it’s only one school, it’s a lower level, and it can’t miss. I wouldn’t take necromancy just to learn dispel undead, but it’s part of a really nice package. Experimental vampires is just vampires with only Alive and Bloodless states, foodless (no bottles of blood), and 5 turns to swap between the two.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 16:47 |
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Cardiovorax posted:Gozag is p. cool and a god that benefits more from getting him early than most of them do, so I wouldn't mind seeing that included. It wouldn't be much work anyway. I dont know how to code sadly. The merchant guy from dq4 could id the value of items as a free action. I hate iding poo poo period. I wonder if this could be worked into a class/God for people like me to take?
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 17:55 |
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Ashenzari will straight up identify things on the ground for you, once you get passive mapping.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:10 |
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Captainsalami posted:I dont know how to code sadly. The merchant guy from dq4 could id the value of items as a free action. I hate iding poo poo period. I wonder if this could be worked into a class/God for people like me to take? As to making a merchant, in principle it's as easy as defining it in the job-data.h and then putting the new menu entry in the right section of newgame.cc, plus little things like defining which races are "recommended" combinations, etc. I'm not sure where you define a class's starting god, but it's probably not a lot harder. The game is well-structured to accept this kind of thing easily.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:19 |
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My issue with cursed poo poo early on that -AP and -Slay is just super boring and your punishment for id-eq a lovely one is "ha, the game will be SLOW AND TEDIOUS if you don't give up". Could they instead just use the randart negative trait pool (and in case of the particularly bad ones, come with actual +Slay or a brand, as some sort of micro-randart?) I mean stuff like Noisy, *Rage, *Tele, *Slow and such (stuff that could be expanded on). "You pick up a sword, it's just extra poo poo at killing things, but you can't drop it" is fun neither gameplay nor flavor wise. "You pick up a sword and it screams loudly as you try to stab people" would be lot less of a bummer. Teal fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Apr 22, 2019 |
# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:30 |
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Teal posted:My issue with cursed poo poo early on that -AP and -Slay is just super boring and your punishment for id-eq a lovely one is "ha, the game will be SLOW AND TEDIOUS if you don't give up".
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:39 |
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That would definitely make for better equip-IDing stories than "well I equipped a -3 hunting sling and eventually found a remove curse scroll somehow".
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:40 |
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PMush Perfect posted:I agree with this, actually.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:50 |
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If we do shift in that direction I would want the enemies to also be affected by bad brands.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:51 |
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I feel like you want the cursed brands to have some potential upside, simply because there should be some niche cases that can use a cursed weapon to their benefit. Alternatively, keep the current brands but have cursed versions apply some sort of malus/debuff to the wielder: Cursed freezing prevents potion drinking ala Ozocubu's Refridgeration, cursed flaming has a chance to explode in a fireball on hit, cursed speed has a chance to haste the target on hit, and so on.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 18:58 |
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redneck nazgul posted:I feel like you want the cursed brands to have some potential upside, simply because there should be some niche cases that can use a cursed weapon to their benefit. these are all insanely dangerous and i would absolutely never, ever, ever wield-ID a weapon without remove curse around again if they were the case which i guess might be the behavior you want to encourage?
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 19:01 |
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Archaeologist's box reveals... the Sword of Power! I'm playing a Deep Dwarf.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 19:09 |
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someone awful. posted:these are all insanely dangerous and i would absolutely never, ever, ever wield-ID a weapon without remove curse around again if they were the case
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 19:11 |
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redneck nazgul posted:I feel like you want the cursed brands to have some potential upside, simply because there should be some niche cases that can use a cursed weapon to their benefit.
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 19:12 |
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someone awful. posted:these are all insanely dangerous and i would absolutely never, ever, ever wield-ID a weapon without remove curse around again if they were the case I don't know about the coding feasibility of "new brands" or "cursed things work like this", but I feel like there's enough design space to come up with "potentially useful but deadly enough that you don't want to use it unless you're feeling lucky" solutions. I view it like eating the purple: Not optimal by any stretch of the means, but can pay off in a gamble. If it's not worth it from the developer standpoint, so be it. I'd much rather gamble on "okay, this +3 dagger has a non-zero chance to explode on me if I hit something with it, let's see if I can find remove curse before it kills me" as opposed to "oops, I wield-ID'd a -3 short sword, time to flail ineffectively until I find remove curse".
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 19:13 |
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really the only thing making cursed weapons "more interesting" does is make earlygame harder, and earlygame is already the hardest part of the gameredneck nazgul posted:I don't know about the coding feasibility of "new brands" or "cursed things work like this", but I feel like there's enough design space to come up with "potentially useful but deadly enough that you don't want to use it unless you're feeling lucky" solutions. I view it like eating the purple: Not optimal by any stretch of the means, but can pay off in a gamble. If it's not worth it from the developer standpoint, so be it. these are literally both "let's see if i can find remove curse before it kills me", only one is far more likely to kill you than the other. it doesn't feel more interesting to me, just more punishing
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 19:13 |
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# ? Apr 28, 2024 03:37 |
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someone awful. posted:really the only thing making cursed weapons "more interesting" does is make earlygame harder, and earlygame is already the hardest part of the game
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# ? Apr 22, 2019 19:17 |