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redeyes posted:Hang on to those older drives fellas. They should last a long time barring controller failures.
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Apr 15, 2019 03:45
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Crotch Fruit posted:This does not apply if the brand is OCZ. True, but these days OCZ=toshiba is perfectly fine.. which generally means you get a decent deal on em
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Apr 15, 2019 03:58
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Phone posted:I moved the Intel 535 between computers again and tried different power cables and SATA cables with no luck. I take it that I'm completely hosed on this and the drive is dead? This is the standard way for that drive to fail. It just stops appearing. Those series of drives seem to have quite a high failure rate. Based on my own experience between the fleet of them we had at work, and some I had at home, they basically have a 100% failure rate after 2-3 years. Every single 53x drive we had at work died within 2 years. I got Intel to warranty swap some, but the swaps failed within months. Both 535s I had at home failed as well. I just gave up on them entirely. There was also some pretty nasty firmware bugs.. One in particular could cause VERY high write amplification in some cases. (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000027328/memory-and-storage/consumer-ssds.html) It was a bug in the drive's internal power management. I had several affected by this one. After a year of use they where at less than 50% health. Intel provides a tool to disable the feature that causes this, but you have to dig for it on their forums. Another bug causes the drive to disappear randomly when it is put to sleep by the host computer. Originally the fix for this was available only as a special firmware update given by Intel support. But it was rolled into the mainline firmware at some point I believe. (See: https://www.google.com/search?q=int...QIoBDAAegQIBRAL) Anyways, dead drives can sometimes be revived, but its only temporary. Leave the drive powered up for 20-30 minutes sitting in your BIOS. And then attempt restarting without powering down and see if it gets detected. With any luck the drive will show up. Once you get it working again, run the Intel SSD toolbox and let it update the firmware if there is an update available. But it WILL fail again, and next time it does, it will not come back. I have revived several Intel 52x and 53x drives doing this. The drive may go for days or months, but don't rely on it. It should be replaced ASAP.
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Apr 15, 2019 14:29
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On the subject of dying SSDs, I helped my Dad with his laptop this weekend, and I had replaced the HDD in his Sandy Bridge-era ultraportable with an HP S700. It's the DRAMless version (i.e. not the Pro), basically intended for this specific scenario of upgrading an old system from an HDD. It was a good deal at the time, like $40-50 before prices plummeted for the 120 GB version. It's rated for only 70 TBW, being DRAMless although it is 3D TLC. I installed CDI and was shocked that it's apparently burned through almost 50 TB of that in the past year or two that it's been installed, and it was writing terabytes more as I moved data around and cleaned it up. I knew it was probably the bottom-of-the-barrel in terms of being a low-capacity DRAMless SSD at the time, but this is by far the closest I've seen any SSD to actually burning through its flash. I did clone it to another SSD, and when this thing dies not only will I be ready for it but it won't really be much of a loss, as that capacity SSD is only about $20 to replace.
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Apr 16, 2019 06:37
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I was going to ask for a gaming SSD for my birthday, but if this is a sensible drive, I may just pull the trigger right now. What would be reasons not to do this? It's a fine drive as a SATA boot drive. If your motherboard has an NVMe slot that it can boot from that may be worth the $15-20 price premium for an NVMe drive, though.
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Apr 16, 2019 06:46
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Talking about failures, the dozen Intel 530s we acquired at my workplace some years ago, are starting to fail one by one. The read/write speed basicly drops to unusable level for no reason.
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Apr 16, 2019 22:30
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This is potentially interesting/important for those of us who are using/planning on using Phison E12 drives. Evidently they're 4K native sector drives, which makes backing them up to a drive that *isn't* 4K native somewhat problematic (at least for Acronis True Image): https://forum.acronis.com/forum/acronis-true-image-2019-forum/ti2019-restore-problem
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Apr 17, 2019 01:47
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Atomizer posted:I installed CDI and was shocked that it's apparently burned through almost 50 TB of that in the past year or two that it's been installed, and it was writing terabytes more as I moved data around and cleaned it up. That is almost certainly wrong, are you sure you weren't slipping a decimal place? Unless you sat around for hours moving data and cleaning it up, that drive couldn't have written multiple terrabytes while you were watching. Particularly the 120gb -- it's got terrible sustained write performance, as you'd expect from a minimum-size drive with only one (or two?) nand chips. Though even if you were adding a decimal and it was just 5 TB written, that's still a lot for a dad-pc. One reason that DRAM-less drives aren't great for OS drives is that an OS does a lot of little writes that can be buffered until they're worth writing, or when something actually important triggers a buffer flush.
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Apr 18, 2019 05:18
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I mean that's the number reported in CDI, which could be wrong I suppose, but it's not like I was using unreliable software and a completely unknown SSD (just a crappy one.) I also use HD Sentinel for diagnostics which seems to be more accurate (and more capable of interpreting drive SMART data) but that wasn't installed on his PC. If it really mattered (and it doesn't really, I already have a replacement drive ready and it's been cloned) I could do it though.
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Apr 18, 2019 07:10
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Nah, it's an older mobo, no NVME. Does the thread have a favorite OS-to-SSD cloning tool? I don't see it in the OP.
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Apr 18, 2019 18:25
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Nah, it's an older mobo, no NVME. Macrium Reflect
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Apr 18, 2019 19:22
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Klyith posted:That is almost certainly wrong, are you sure you weren't slipping a decimal place? Unless you sat around for hours moving data and cleaning it up, that drive couldn't have written multiple terrabytes while you were watching. Particularly the 120gb -- it's got terrible sustained write performance, as you'd expect from a minimum-size drive with only one (or two?) nand chips. Alright here you go, you tell me what's going on: 
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Apr 19, 2019 04:27
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Atomizer posted:Alright here you go, you tell me what's going on: Well it's impossible for that drive to have written 50 TB in 121 hours. So in that case I'd say crystal disk is mis-reading the smart attributes. Many SMART values are frustratingly non-standard, CDI is good but if it doesn't know a drive it has to guess. If HP has some sort of official drive tool that might tell you the real story.
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Apr 19, 2019 05:28
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Atomizer posted:Alright here you go, you tell me what's going on: What sticks out here is that CDI's clearly interpreting the raw value of attribute 0xF1, Lifetime Writes from Host, as a count of the number of gigabytes written. But raw values are not standardized at all in SMART, so any SMART tool that tries to interpret them needs to look up the drive model in a database to get the scale right. Some tools just blindly guess what the values mean if they don't have a DB entry, other tools do the right thing and don't try to interpret what they don't know how to. We can get something out of the current / worst / threshold values for 0xF1. C/W/T is the result of the drive's own firmware normalizing the raw value to a simple, crude health scale. The scale is usually (but not always, because the designers of SMART weren't smart enough to fully standardize the normalization scale) 100 to 0, with 100 being perfectly healthy. In this case, the drive is normalizing its 0xF1 raw value to 100, and judging by the rest of the attributes, it's uniformly using a scale of 100=perfect. This drive is actually reporting very little write wear, and CDI's interpretation of the raw value is wrong. To get an idea of just how all over the map this kind of thing is, have a look at this. It's smartmontool's database of known drives, with attribute interpretation quirks: https://www.smartmontools.org/static/doxygen/drivedb_8h_source.html I see a bunch of different ideas about how to encode things in the raw value of attribute 241 (aka 0xF1). Gigabytes is common, which is perhaps why CDI assumes gigabytes. However, there's a bunch of drives that report the total number of LBAs written (an LBA presumably being 512 bytes). Intel seems to like units of 32 MB. (As far as I've ever been able to tell, a lot of the data in the smartmontools DB comes from people who get a new drive that's not in the DB, experiment on it, and report the results to the project. Sometimes if you're lucky the manufacturer publishes a technical manual which actually documents this poo poo, but that's usually only enterprise-y SSDs.)
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Apr 19, 2019 08:46
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Interesting stuff, thanks for the replies guys. If I have some more time I might have to try the aforementioned HD Sentinel, which is better at interpreting drive info (especially considering HP doesn't appear to have software for this model.) In the end, like I said, this doesn't really matter because I've got another drive ready and this is just an old laptop my Dad uses, nothing critical.
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Apr 19, 2019 09:47
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Right, it doesn't matter, it almost never matters and worrying about SSD endurance in normal consumer application is a waste of time.
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Apr 19, 2019 19:30
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That's normally my position, but the only reason I was concerned was due to the information presented.
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Apr 20, 2019 06:58
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Is there anything better on the horizon than the 2TB 660p for reasonably fast bulk storage? Im just looking for a cheap secondary drive for GOG/Steam games, no writes other than updates. I’m not even planning to back it up and average SATA SSD performance is fine.
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Apr 20, 2019 11:05
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eames posted:Is there anything better on the horizon than the 2TB 660p for reasonably fast bulk storage? Im just looking for a cheap secondary drive for GOG/Steam games, no writes other than updates. I’m not even planning to back it up and average SATA SSD performance is fine. What physical interface? Does it need to be NVMe/m.2? You can get a 2 TB Adata SU800 from Rakuten for $183 (and that's not even counting the rebate) which is at least as good a price/TB as I've seen the 660p lately if you can do 2.5" SATA. Otherwise I don't know of anything that's at least that good in terms of price/capacity, but if you need higher density the Samsung 860 QVO 4 TB is available (QLC, 2.5") although it's more expensive/TB.
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Apr 20, 2019 17:10
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So I have this SM951 I've been using for about 3 years. I've been using it for games lately and starting about a week ago the drive would disconnect and disappear until reboot. I reformatted and it worked for a few days, now it's starting again. Is this what a failing drive would behave like? I want to get a new one but I am trying to figure out if I can test to make sure it's not the actual board in the laptop that is faulty so I don't buy a new drive to find it doing the same thing.
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Apr 21, 2019 23:23
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Atomizer posted:What physical interface? Does it need to be NVMe/m.2? You can get a 2 TB Adata SU800 from Rakuten for $183 (and that's not even counting the rebate) which is at least as good a price/TB as I've seen the 660p lately if you can do 2.5" SATA. Otherwise I don't know of anything that's at least that good in terms of price/capacity, but if you need higher density the Samsung 860 QVO 4 TB is available (QLC, 2.5") although it's more expensive/TB. Thanks for the info. Either SATA or NVMe are fine but I think I’ll just clean up the primary SSD a bit and try to wait a few months as long as memory prices are still dropping. The 2TB 660p seems like it would be a perfect fit for my needs but it would also occupy my last M.2 slot. Rakuten is unfortunately not available where I live.
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Apr 22, 2019 06:33
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eames posted:Thanks for the info. Either SATA or NVMe are fine but I think I’ll just clean up the primary SSD a bit and try to wait a few months as long as memory prices are still dropping. The 2TB 660p seems like it would be a perfect fit for my needs but it would also occupy my last M.2 slot. Rakuten is unfortunately not available where I live. Ok. SSD prices are predicted to continue to drop but who knows how that will progress, and also you don't want to get in the trap of waiting until prices bottom out, and never buying what you need. If you need an SSD now, just buy one, prices are quite reasonable. Currently if you can find SSDs at $100/TB or better then that's the current benchmark for a good deal.
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Apr 22, 2019 07:33
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Spoke Lee posted:So I have this SM951 I've been using for about 3 years. I've been using it for games lately and starting about a week ago the drive would disconnect and disappear until reboot. I reformatted and it worked for a few days, now it's starting again. Is this what a failing drive would behave like? I want to get a new one but I am trying to figure out if I can test to make sure it's not the actual board in the laptop that is faulty so I don't buy a new drive to find it doing the same thing. Get a utility like this: https://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm Put it on a bootable USB, run it and see if any conditions in red or alerts show up. Games don't usually write too much, but I bet it's got either bad sectors, CRC errors, or both.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:17
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Allegedly some Intel datacenter SSDs are bricking after 1,700 hours cumulative powered idle time? https://twitter.com/jayblanc/status/1118963343996354568
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Apr 23, 2019 10:53
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Binary Badger posted:Get a utility like this: Thanks for the tip, it ended up being both. New one is in and so far so good.
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Apr 24, 2019 10:28
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eames posted:Allegedly some Intel datacenter SSDs are bricking after 1,700 hours cumulative powered idle time? well FILUCK ME
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Apr 24, 2019 14:56
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I still wanna know how they came up with 1700 hours on the nose.. A garbage collection routine that overwrites volume directories?
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Apr 24, 2019 16:27
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Binary Badger posted:I still wanna know how they came up with 1700 hours on the nose.. Usually things like this are numeric overflow. If you have an event counter variable (or in this case a cumulative idle time counter?), and consumers of the counter are written to assume it can only go up, and it hits integer overflow and thus wraps around to zero (or highly negative if it’s a signed value), poo poo can get very real. If something like that is the culprit, 1700 hours is simply how much idle time is required to advance the counter from 0 to the maximum positive value the variable can hold.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:33
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I'm utterly an completely baffled: I installed a new SSD (WD Black SN750) in the M.2 slot on my motherboard (ASRock z270) and all sorts of weird poo poo in going wrong. -The SSD shows up correctly in BIOS -The SSD does now show up in disk manager -The Standard NVM Express Controller under device manager is showing an error (Code 10, I/O adapter hardware error) -The drive shows up an functions normally when I reboot into safe mode, including getting rid of the NVM controller error above. (formatting the disk in safe mode does NOT get it to show up when I reboot into normal windows) What do, help.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:39
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Windows 10? You need a hotfix if it is windows 7 or older versions of server (pre 2008)
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Apr 25, 2019 02:47
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priznat posted:Windows 10? You need a hotfix if it is windows 7 or older versions of server (pre 2008) Yeah, it's windows 10.
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Apr 25, 2019 02:58
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TooManyUzukis posted:-The Standard NVM Express Controller under device manager is showing an error (Code 10, I/O adapter hardware error) This sounds like a driver / software issue to me. With WD using the generic windows NVME driver, I'd be looking at the surrounding parts of your system. * have the Intel chipset drivers installed? * running any weird storage or storage-adjacent software? * check the event viewer for anything with more detail? Did you actually try writing data to the drive when you were in safe mode? That's the one thing I'd do to make sure it's purely an OS thing.
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Apr 25, 2019 07:33
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For what it's worth, I've got two ASRock Z270 boards running with an NVMe no problems. My ITX board has a 960 or 970 Evo in it (think it's a 960). Running Win10 and various Linuxes no problem. I also have a full-ATX ASRock Z270 Pro4 (the one with the two NVMe slots). I've only ever user the first slot and it was with a cheap MyDigitalLifeSSD but I never had any problems running Win10/ESXi/Windows Server 2016 on it.
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Apr 25, 2019 15:01
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Chipset's up to date, nothing like iRST is installed on my machine. I'm at a total loss. At this point, I'm tempted to try a fresh windows install on the drive itself and see if I can get that to work. Was planning on migrating my os to it, anyway.
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Apr 25, 2019 16:09
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Maybe as a sanity check run a livecd/usb version of a recent linux on it to see if the drive comes up ok. This way you can check the hardware (if it works in linux it’s some issue with your windows/drivers) without having to install anything.
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Apr 25, 2019 16:50
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So that Inland Premium Phison E12 drive is down to $119.99 now: https://www.microcenter.com/product/600422/1tb-ssd-3d-nand-m2-2280-pcie-nvme-30-x4-internal-solid-state-drive $114.99 if you use the $5 RetailMeNot coupon at a B&M.
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Apr 26, 2019 03:44
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apropos man posted:For what it's worth, I've got two ASRock Z270 boards running with an NVMe no problems. Same. We've got around 10 of them floating around work.
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Apr 26, 2019 08:36
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FRINGE posted:Same. We've got around 10 of them floating around work. I've actually got one of my Z270's for sale at the moment on eBay. I decided to move to a Ryzen build because the full ATX Z270 was my VMware box and I wanted more cores. So I picked up an ASRock B450 Pro4 and a Ryzen 1700 until the new breed of Ryzen come out. I expected the B450 to be exactly the same as my Z270, just with an AM4 socket instead of an 1151 socket, but the network chipset is different. The Z270 boards, perhaps unsurprisingly, have an Intel NIC on-board where the B450 boards have a Realtek NIC on-board. I got ESXi working with my B450 board by manually rolling in some network drivers but in the end I've plumped for buying another Intel i350 card to go in a space PCI slot. I think for doing a lot of virtualisation an Intel NIC will be more stable. But, yeah, I do really like ASRock boards. They may not be the most premium gaming boards but they're usually fully-featured and get the job done. If anyone in the UK is interested in my (almost new) z270 ATX board, it's here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASROCK-Z270-PRO4-S1151-ATX-Intel-DDR4-Motherboard/202659208926 My i350 card should be arriving today, so that's the weekend sorted pushing the 16 threads of my VMware box to it's limit. :-)
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Apr 26, 2019 11:23
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Installed Windows on the mysterious disappearing drive last night, and it all seems to be working perfectly. I don't know what kind of weird rear end driver issue Windows was encountering, but as long as I boot from that drive itself everything's fine. I was planning on migrating everything over to the SSD anyway, so I suppose I'm still where I wanted to be in the end.
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Apr 26, 2019 13:33
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Reminds me of when I was looking at Intel CPU's on eBay recently. The description on this 7700K said that it was impossible to do a fresh OS installation with the CPU installed but if you installed the OS with a different CPU and then swapped them over it worked like a normal CPU. I found it in my history: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-i7-7700k-Working-Perfectly-But-With-A-Flaw-Read-Description/303119882786?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144 Jesus! It went for £220. I paid the same amount over a year ago for a perfectly good 7700K. I still use it now.
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Apr 26, 2019 16:12
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