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Our boy Juzo is the hardest turnaround I've ever done on a fictional character. I hated him at first! He was a violent dick to both Makoto and Hajime, two of my favourite Danganronpa characters! (For some reason I've got a real weakness for the bland protagonists in this series.) And yet, by this point, he'd become by far my favourite thing to come out of Danganronpa 3. I love this angry, self-loathing mess who's so bad at decision-making that his gay crush literally ended the world, and I'm sad that he didn't get his moment with Kyosuke in the end. At least he managed to make one good decision at the last moment.
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Apr 25, 2019 08:17
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Rith posted:Our boy Juzo is the hardest turnaround I've ever done on a fictional character. I hated him at first! He was a violent dick to both Makoto and Hajime, two of my favourite Danganronpa characters! (For some reason I've got a real weakness for the bland protagonists in this series.) Yeah, that's the thing. Our Boy Juzo is somehow one of the best characters in this mess and we started at; Sycophant for the main opposition of Makoto who mostly just wants to kill Makoto. Now here we are, several layers deep into his personality and it's a fascinating way to build a character from a one note violent punchman.
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Apr 25, 2019 10:46
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I'm too lazy to find the shot, but I recall, in the mess that was the week following this episode, someone pointing out that the last shot of Kyosuke in this episode--kneeling before Juzo's body--is framed as though it's from Juzo's POV, including seeing part of his fringe. So, I choose to believe that Our Boy Juzo and his ridiculous loving tenacity (and the wound being cauterised by Magic Hot Sword, which was also a theory after the counter in the OP suggested someone had survived, although that was also a serious debate over 'does Hagakure count') allowed him to live precisely long enough to hear Kyosuke's apology. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Also, fun fact: if you watch Juzo's stance in earlier episodes, he's a southpaw. The Ultimate Boxer chopped off his dominant hand. A lot of people turned around on Juzo after this, is what I'm saying.
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Apr 25, 2019 12:08
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I believe some people knew there was going to be some kind of turnaround for Juzo, because there was merchandise of him being sold while the anime was in the early episodes. Anyway, here's your Juzo copypasta, slightly edited to be a bit more SA friendly. When Juzo died, it changed from "Our Boy Juzo" to "Our Hero Juzo". 
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Apr 25, 2019 16:12
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Well, yeah. There it is, I don't have too much more to add. For all the deserved shade I throw at these series, it has one good thing going for it, and that thing is Juzo. The entire plot of Future may have been overly convoluted and poorly implemented, but Juzo's whole arc across both series is great and genuinely affecting, and it's unfortunate that it's married to such dross because it just makes everything else even more frustrating. If everyone involved with this project came at it with the ability and enthusiasm of Juzo's writer and Junko's voice actor (both of them), this could have been something really special. Alas. God, to wash the stink of "mind hack anime" from my mouth. loving brainwashing bullshit, gently caress. I used to love brainwashing stuff, used to think it was so cool...and then I went to silly college and learned things like "critical thinking" and "thematic integration of elements". And came to recognize how... cheap this trope often is, how explorations of the fear of abuse, parasitism, loss of control or other allegorical associations that might actually say something are completely ignored in favor of just getting a character to do something they would not otherwise do. Usually having to do with sex or violence of course, like beating up your allies, or your SO, or dressing is skimpy outfits that are totally not supposed to get the audience hot, no sir (yes they are)... Just depresses me, man. (Not all bad, though. Jessica Jones, Season 2? There was a really good use of mind control, that was both thematically appropriate and functioned as an appropriate and understandable threat for the character...)
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Apr 25, 2019 17:43
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resurgam40 posted:God, to wash the stink of "mind hack anime" from my mouth. loving brainwashing bullshit, gently caress. 
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Apr 25, 2019 18:05
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The signs were there.  
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Apr 25, 2019 18:31
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Overly Sarcastic Productions has a good episode on Mind Control as a trope. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_7BHQdyrzg
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Apr 25, 2019 22:22
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Notice also that Juzo’s Arc is actually a pretty believable story of someone falling into despair, if they’d done something similar for the Remnants in Despair Arc, built up their story of a slow fall into loss and anger and then at the end had Junko convert them to her side we could’ve had an actual interesting backstory for the Remnants with less torture porn and using Mary Sue Chiaki to push them all over the edge. Like, imagine Junko actually doing what she did to Juzo to the class 77-A, it’d Work wonderfully as a 12 episode series, you can even keep the lovely brainwashing anime so that the Reserve Course Suicide isn’t as ridiculous as it first seems, maybe tie it into the development of the Monokid Helmets.
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Apr 25, 2019 23:55
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Personally, I'm of two minds when it comes to the brainwashing. I mean, in UDG, I was totally fine with it. It didn't seem cheap to me that Monaca used the Monokuma helmets to brainwash all the Monokuma Kids into servitude, because otherwise, it just wouldn't have been practical to get an army of children together to make her plan work. Same with the mass suicide of the Reserve Course that we'll see in the next episode. You just can't make that work in a realistic way, at least not without making it seem incredibly contrived as a result. Brainwashing is a practical way to get a mass amount of people doing the thing the villain wants in your story, because you can't take the time to make your villain pull a Jonestown with all the prep that goes into that. Besides, where are you going to get a representative to kill at an airport in Towa City? It's just not feasible. Of course, the problem then comes with the middle management of those two villains, as it were. Monaca manipulated the Warriors of Hope into servitude by exploiting their emotions and weaknesses. Junko just brainwashed some more to get the Remnants. However, I feel like this is just a corner they wrote themselves into. It's not that they weren't capable of making an entire series focused on Junko slowly corrupting the class, it's that they're kinda forced to focus on all these other things to set things up in Future Side. You need to have Chisa falling into despair, you need to have Ryota developing the brainwashing anime, you need to have Kyosuke establishing the overseas branch, you need to have The Incident, you need to have the Ruruka/Seiko conflict establishment, and so on and so forth. And then you also have stuff we haven't seen yet but comes up from other games, like Hajime becoming Izuru and getting put on his path to following despair. Like, you could maybe still make the full corruption story work with all those side things going on, but I guess they figured they couldn't pull it off. So while this is kinda dumb, I'm not really mad about it, because I can see why they did it. Even if the alternative would've given us far more Dub Junko. But then again, I am generally probably too accepting of poo poo storytelling.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:30
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TheMcD posted:The signs were there. Oh hey, there's the picture of Junko I was looking for.
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Apr 26, 2019 21:16
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 So, welcome to the final episode of the Despair Side. Now, those of you that have been counting along might see something wrong with that, but don't worry about it, I'll pick this up again at the end, it'll be clearer there. We begin with Kyosuke on the phone, being told that his plans for the overseas branch of Hope's Peak have been shitcanned by the board and there's no negotiating about that. And, well, given the amount of poo poo Hope's Peak is in, I can't help but feel that an overseas branch is the least of their worries right now.  Juzo shows up and reports that Junko is innocent based on an alibi. Kyosuke says that he doesn't really have another suspect beyond Junko, since all the evidence fits her, but he trusts Juzo.  Then, in a bathroom, Juzo repeatedly punches a wall and curses Junko, swearing that when this is all over, she's a dead woman.  Meanwhile, Chisa and Kyosuke have a joyful reunion. Kyosuke also asks Chisa if she thinks Junko is innocent, and Chisa also says that everything she found points towards Junko being innocent.  We are then given a warning by Chisa that if we're looking for a happy ending, we should look elsewhere. Just because hope is the main character doesn't mean it'll make it to the final act. Sister, you should've told us that before Chiaki got horribly slaughtered.  Junko and Izuru meet up in an empty class room of the Reserve Course. Junko declares that today will be the day Hope's Peak dies. Izuru does his usual boring thing of just kinda stating the obvious, saying that Junko seems pleased since her plan is coming to fruition.  Also, he's still got Chiaki's hairpin.  Junko then says that there's a wind blowing that's ready to knock it all down with despairful despair. Yep.  And then the wall blows up. It doesn't make sense, but it's a nice shot, again underscored with the triumphant music from the scene where Junko flipped over the jigsaw puzzle.  And the title card once again underlines what we're in for.  Meanwhile, with the class, Chisa is talking to them about how proud she is of them. She gets a bit sentimental and says that she's written a letter for them, since this will be goodbye for them.  Outside, Junko is watching and waiting, talking about how great things will be once that class gets out there and starts working their despair and how it will spread like a virus.  Mukuro interrupts Junko's villain monologue and gets a slap on the rear end and stepped on for it. Mukuro seems to be somewhat into it.  Meanwhile, the Reserve Course has broken out into outright rioting, taking shovels and pickaxes to the place.  We then get a short talk between Junko and Izuru about the memetic waves that despair will spread in, and how everything spreads like a virus, from fashion trends to social media hashtags.  We also get a line from Izuru: "Ideas, philosophy, art, culture - they live and die by the meme.". That didn't get memed into the ground at all, no siree.  The Reserve Course has now taken to attacking the Main Course.  As they make their way into the building, destroying it and slaughtering the Main Course students they come across, Chisa reads her letter to the class. It's your usual end-of-school encouragement stuff about how great their future will be, even though there will be hardships they will have to see through, that kind of stuff.  When Chisa finishes her letter, she bows and the class claps. And when she raises her head again...  ...we've arrived at despair mode.  The class has shifted as well, as we get them talking about all the good deeds they're going to do out in the world. Like, actual good deeds, like Mikan saying she's going to develop drugs that will cure all illnesses, Fuyuhiko says he'll make the gang go legit together with Peko, that kind of stuff. Just that they're saying it with crazy eyes while Kill Command / Ekoroshia / the amped up investigation theme from DR2 plays.  And Nagito is still being Nagito, talking about turning to despair just being part of the process that leads to hope.  So, with the Reserve Course drawing closer, Chisa tells the class that officially, they'll have died here and they'll be stricken from the Hope's Peak record.  And with the Reserve Course continuing to riot...  ...Chisa pulls out a trigger and tells the class goodbye.  Ker-bewm.  Meanwhile, Junko asks Izuru why he made her erase the class's memories of Izuru. Izuru says it's because he'll meet them again soon, and them having memories of him would make things predictable and therefore boring. He'll also be deleting his memories of them. Izuru then gives his spiel about how he's going to be pitting hope against despair to see which of the two is truly the most unpredictable, yadda yadda DR2 setup. Izuru then heads out.  Back inside, Kazuo, Jin and Koichi have barricaded themselves in. Apparently, at this point, everybody but the DR1 class from the Main Course has been wiped out.  Outside of Hope's Peak, things aren't looking much better either. Jin wonders if somebody orchestrated all this, though Koichi doesn't buy it. Jin then says he was trying to use his detective skills like Kyoko, saying that she would've figured this out and that he should've let her help. Kazuo then changes the topic to an escape, with Jin saying that the other two should leave while he turns Hope's Peak into a safehouse with the DR1 class to give the new world that comes out of this a new hope.  Koichi says he will stay outside with Kazuo, but then reaffirms his promise to Jin that if it comes down to it, he'll protect Kyoko with his life.  Back outside, Junko believes that the Reserve Course has done enough, so she sends them a message thanking them for their help.  And alongside that message...  ...she's sent a little something special.  And thus, they all stop what they're doing...   ...and it starts raining Reserve Course members.  Koichi and Kazuo see the carnage on their way out, but Koichi just suggests not to try to reason this out.  Finally, the rest of the Reserve Course just gleefully runs into the flames.  While Junko wistfully looks at all the death, Mukuro asks why they couldn't just have the Reserve Course people join them, to which Junko's reply is basically "because they're dumb like you, you stupid bitch". Junko insulting Mukuro has been remarkably constant. Anyway, Junko then gets up and says that they need to leave because it's almost time for class.  Class of course being the DR1 gang locking themselves into Hope's Peak and fortifying the place.  Junko and Mukuro are also at work. Mukuro says that Junko's plan is going smoothly, but Junko says there's still some wrinkles in it, namely...  ...this guy.  So Junko takes matters into her own hands and chucks her wrench at him...   But Makoto being Makoto, he just slips and falls instead, inadvertently dodging it.  Junko then talks with Mukuro about how Makoto could be a real problem in her plan, since his luck is a lot more sporadic and random than Nagito's, making it harder to get a lock on. Mukuro asks if she'll kill Makoto, but Junko says she won't - the thought of a loser like Makoto ruining her plan would give her exactly the despair she wants.  We then get a shot of the now-Remnants, with Nagito basically just saying "uh, happy graduation, I guess?".  Meanwhile, Kyosuke finds Chisa in the burning classroom, with Chisa faking being sad, with her class having died in the explosion and all that.  As they turn to leave, Chisa drops something. She goes to pick it up, but second-guesses herself and continues leaving. Kyosuke asks if she doesn't need it...  ...and Chisa just says it's nothing she can't get by without.  We then get some more voiceover from Chisa, talking about how she's sure Izuru would just say that all this is boring...  ...that they're now living in the world of Junko's twisted mind...  ...that her students are now out there, causing disorder...  ...and that with their talents, it's no surprise the world is now stained with despair.  And what is Chisa doing in all of this?  Well, she's keeping house.  Juzo's not dealing too well with the fact that he's basically responsible for all this.  Chisa says that if anyone can stop this destruction, it's Kyosuke. She believes in him.  Believes in his bottomless capacity for despair.  And thus, Chisa tells us in another voiceover, we've arrived at the ending. She did tell us it wouldn't be a happy one. But in the end, for Junko and her followers, it kind of is. Maybe that's the secret - it's all a matter of perspective.  But as one story ends, another begins. And to end the episode...   ...we find Junko practicing her lines for the next part of her plan.  However, that's not quite the end, as we still have a post-credits stinger.  On an island paradise...  ...we find some familiar characters meeting each other.  And in the end, we get a voiceover from Izuru saying that he has to know which he cannot predict - hope or despair. Which one is freedom.  And this is the final card of Despair Side. See, here's the thing - what would normally be Despair Side, episode 12 is actually Hope Side. We'll also get to see this card at the end of the next Future Side episode - Hope Side is essentially an episode made to wrap up both Despair Side and Hope Side in one, kinda. I mean, Despair Side is essentially over now as far as plot is concerned, since DR1 and DR2 take over from here, but it's the big climax, anyway. But before that, we need to do one more episode. Next time, on the Future Side, the true plan of the mastermind is revealed. What the gently caress just happened?: Juzo and Chisa both tell Kyosuke Junko is innocent. The Reserve Course is now fully rioting, breaking poo poo and killing people. Chisa and her class have their "graduation ceremony", as it were, ready to go out into the world and cause despair. The Reserve Course commits mass suicide after Chisa sets off the explosion that's supposed to allow the DR2 class to fake their deaths. Izuru talks about some poo poo that basically sets up his DR2 plan of pitting hope against despair to find out which is the most unpredictable. Jin goes forward with the plan to lock the DR1 class up in Hope's Peak, with the entire rest of the Main Course being dead (or believed dead, in the case of the DR2 class), with Junko and Mukuro coming along for the ride. The DR2 class is now out and about, causing despair, while Chisa stays with Kyosuke. The events of DR1 are set into motion.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:20
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- Junko outfit in this episode is from Danganronpa Zero. Sadly, aside from the appearance of that spy kid I pointed out earlier, this is pretty much the only reference to that story. - The line about Izuru was "dissemination through memes" in Japanese. You can imagine the reaction to this line, both in the sub and the dub. - Most of the class didn't even meet Izuru, but I guess erasing Nagito's memory and letting everyone else remember that he told them about the guy would be kind of annoying to deal with. - Junko, much like other characters in the series, hates normies. Remember how Tengan was saying that it was okay to be normal? Yeah, pretty much everyone else in the series takes that message and wipes with it. In this case, it's Junko, so that's no big deal. She's the villain and all. But you'll see what I mean in about two episodes.  - A detail not shown in the above pictures is that everyone is working on sealing up the school... except for Celestia, who is drinking tea. - TheMcD didn't mention it, but this is the one and only time that Junko actually acts like a normal person (to my recollection) in the series. When the wrench misses Makoto, she approaches him and acts like his concerned classmate, makes sure he's okay, and doesn't go back to talking about despair until he and Sayaka are out of earshot. Why didn't she do this more? - Considering this is almost immediately before DR1, I hate how Mukuro just is like "Yeah, I'll kill Makoto. It's no big deal." considering how her Free Time Events went. - Likewise, I hate how Junko decides to leave Makoto alive just because "It might be fun if I lose." I feel that takes away from Makoto's victory, even if Makoto's reason for succeeding in DR1 was more due to others than himself. - Chisa intentionally gets lovey-dovey on Kyosuke around Juzo to mess with him now that she's in despair mode. - Chisa being in despair mode doesn't really feel like it amounted to much, huh? She killed some kids, pushed Chiaki into an elevator, and faked the DR2 cast's death. And the latter doesn't really do much considering they go around destroying the world not long after. - Not really mentioned over the course of this recap, but real Chiaki speaks in a notably different way from AI Chiaki, the latter of which has a very halting and hesitating manner of speech.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:42
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There’s actually an entire year between the end of Side:Despair and the start of DanganRonpa 1 if I remember correctly. They talk about missing two years of memory but this story only gives room for one year of them at Hope’s Peak whilst it functions as a school. Presumably that’s the time period where Mukuro’s crush develops, but yeah DR3 is not kind to Mukuro’s characterisation in the slightest.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:27
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It feels like the writer only half-remembered the events of the previous games and figured things matched up close enough without double-checking. That would explain the characterization issues people are talking about, except for Monica, which just feels like a deliberate middle finger to UDG fans.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:05
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Monaka decided to leave when she saw all of the mind hack bullshit. Lord_Magmar posted:There’s actually an entire year between the end of Side:Despair and the start of DanganRonpa 1 if I remember correctly. They talk about missing two years of memory but this story only gives room for one year of them at Hope’s Peak whilst it functions as a school. Ah, that makes more sense, then. But yeah, definitely not a fan of how Mukuro was portrayed here, even if she does have a year to cool down a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if Junko made a joke about incest between them as a reference to fanservice, because that's totally the weird kind of thing she'd do. I remember seeing a (fan?)comic of something like that where Junko portrays Mukuro's biography as her having become a soldier and leaving her younger sister behind, only to wind up coming back home and falling in love with her, while Mukuro just has a blank expression upon hearing it.  So maybe, to some degree, it was my fault for picturing her differently from how the author intended. But even then, it doesn't match up to what we see in-game and it's kind of amazing that in one year she went from "I have absolutely no reservations about killing anyone and everyone for my sister whom I fetishize in every way, especially when she's insulting me and trying to kill me" to "How could you kill your own sister?"
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Apr 27, 2019 04:40
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The thing that annoyed me most in this episode is that Izuru's comments make it clear that the reason he brought the Junko AI into the neo world program was to prove to her that hope is more unpredictable than despair, invalidating her entire reason for being the Ultimate Despair (as she made it clear earlier in the show that she thinks that despair is more unpredictable than hope). Yet the end of DR2 has the survivors reject hope and despair in favor of moving forward into the future. Yet another example of the writers of this anime not caring about the events of the games.
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Apr 27, 2019 06:11
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So TheMcD do you plan to cover Super Danganronpa 2.5?
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Apr 27, 2019 06:19
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:- Considering this is almost immediately before DR1, I hate how Mukuro just is like "Yeah, I'll kill Makoto. It's no big deal." considering how her Free Time Events went. I don't speak Japanese, so I can't speak for which is more accurate myself, but I've seen Mukuro's line about Makoto in this episode translated as both 'do you want me to kill him?' (which, I agree, doesn't seem to fit what we see of Mukuro in other materials) and as 'are you going to kill him?' (which makes a lot more sense; Makoto is pretty much the only person we know Mukuro actually cares about, other than Junko, so I can see her nervously asking that when Junko starts to get frustrated).
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Apr 27, 2019 09:00
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:- Junko outfit in this episode is from Danganronpa Zero. Sadly, aside from the appearance of that spy kid I pointed out earlier, this is pretty much the only reference to that story. I believe that the individual who supplied the blood in that picture also makes a brief and uncredited cameo in this episode or possibly the one before it.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:12
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:- Considering this is almost immediately before DR1, I hate how Mukuro just is like "Yeah, I'll kill Makoto. It's no big deal." considering how her Free Time Events went. Like Rith said, the line in the dub was "Are you going to kill him?". Hobgoblin2099 posted:- Likewise, I hate how Junko decides to leave Makoto alive just because "It might be fun if I lose." I feel that takes away from Makoto's victory, even if Makoto's reason for succeeding in DR1 was more due to others than himself. I don't know why, but I feel like the point of "Junko deliberately leaves flaws in her plans so she can feel the despair of having them fail" has been established earlier at some point. BlazeEmblem posted:The thing that annoyed me most in this episode is that Izuru's comments make it clear that the reason he brought the Junko AI into the neo world program was to prove to her that hope is more unpredictable than despair, invalidating her entire reason for being the Ultimate Despair (as she made it clear earlier in the show that she thinks that despair is more unpredictable than hope). Well, Izuru doesn't really care about Junko, and he doesn't really seem to care whether hope or despair is the one that is more unpredictable - he just wants to know which one of the two it is. The Junko AI is just there to facilitate the despair, not to prove a point to. And it's not like the ending of DR2 doesn't fit with that, since Hajime "defeats" the Izuru inside of him during the final chapter, so this whole thing about finding out whether hope or despair is more unpredictable becomes moot anyway. mateo360 posted:So TheMcD do you plan to cover Super Danganronpa 2.5? I don't believe so. I got annoyed at that because the preview images had a shot of the Warriors of Hope, and then that was literally the only time they showed up and they did nothing. In other news, a package arrived today! And what was in it?  It's the limited edition of the Vita version of UDG! I figured that given how much I love this game, I should get some sort of special edition with some neat stuff.  In this case, the neat stuff includes a little artbook, a soundtrack CD, a Kurokuma tie and emblem, and most importantly for me, a Warriors of Hope pin. I feel like I needed that to go with the Monaca design shirt I had made to complete the look.
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Apr 27, 2019 13:34
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The thing about SDR2 is it actually goes exactly how Izuru wanted, he's using Junko as an enemy to fix his classmates and cure himself of apathy, at least by my interpretation. It's why the end works the way it does, nobody had realised it but Izuru had changed how the Neo-World Functions already, because he's the Ultimate Talented Individual with every Talent Hope's Peak ever studied. Of course he's also not too fussed if Junko wins, because then she was right and he will get to enjoy the chaos of despair, or she loses in which case hope ended up chaotic too, then there's what actually happens neither hope nore despair but working towards a future of mutual understanding and happiness. I dunno, I interperet SDR2 as being a lot of trickery by Izuru to fix himself because he is able to realise that he was happier as Hajime, if lacking wholly in talent.
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Apr 27, 2019 14:51
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TheMcD posted:I don't know why, but I feel like the point of "Junko deliberately leaves flaws in her plans so she can feel the despair of having them fail" has been established earlier at some point. It has, it just feels kind of unsatisfying, I guess? Then again, Junko dies enjoying the fact that she lost (the first time around at least), so that's probably the point.
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Apr 27, 2019 15:45
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It has, but there's a difference between intentional flaws and giving up because of Makoto dodging a loving tool thrown at his head accidentally.
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Apr 27, 2019 17:37
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 We're back on the Future Side for the final time, and... we're flashing back again. Jeez, this is supposed to be Future Side, not Past Side! Anyway, we seem to be at some sort of military base of sorts.  We have Kazuo sitting in front of some sort of radio, and Chisa shows up as well.  Chisa's got a USB stick, and says that this contains the video responsible for The Incident. She also says that the brainwashing technology used in this video was developed by Ryota, and that he would be a valuable ally if they could track him down.  She also has a USB stick with the suicide video.  Kazuo takes both of them and just kind of stares at them. And Chisa?  Well, she seems happy with whatever she's just accomplished.  Anyway, back in the future, as we saw on the last Future Side episode, Ryota got a phone message from Kazuo.  It's a video message. Kazuo says that if Ryota is watching this, then it must already be too late for him. He says that his time has run out and hope needs to be entrusted to those that come after him, and that Hope's Peak was his life's work. All the students growing up to become leaders, taking the reigns of the Foundation, it was all very wonderful. If, however, this vanguard of humanity were to suddenly lose their way, turn on and massacre each other, the pain would be more than what the rest of the world could bear. He asks them if they can't feel the abject despair of it...  "...better yet, isn't it wonderful to see it all come true?" Welp.  Ryota can't really deal with this new information. Looks like Kazuo was on the side of despair all along.  Aoi and Makoto don't really care, given that, y'know, the guy's dead and this whole thing is essentially over, but Ryota keeps beating himself up over letting despair win, with him running away when Junko confronted him and hiding while the Remnants did their work.  But now, he's not going to run any longer. He's going to do what's right. What is that? Well, first of all he's going to tell the true story, so basically just recap what we already know - Ryota wants to make an anime that fills everybody that watches it with hope, but runs into Junko and is forced to make the despair video instead. He says that it's all his fault because all this time, he was too scared to say anything. The suicide video must be using the same tech he used in the despair video, and so all Kazuo had to do was program it into the monitors and watch the Foundation fall apart.  Aoi asks the most important question at this juncture - why exactly Kazuo had turned to despair. Ryota says that he must have watched the original despair video at some point. So now, Ryota wants to put a stop to all of this.  He's got another video. He did in fact create the video that will spread hope to everyone. Makoto and Aoi aren't so sure that's a good idea, since no matter how you dress it up, it's still just brainwashing.  Ryota knows that, but accepts it. The way he sees it, humans are ultimately weak and susceptible to despair, and it grows inside of them until that's all they know and they can't get on top of it anymore. Makoto disagrees, saying that despair could be defeated if they all just worked together.  But Ryota basically just throws that right back in Makoto's face, saying the reason why the world is in the state it is is exactly that humanity can't deal with despair, that Makoto is the exception here, not the rule. He then just walks off.  Aoi wants to stop Ryota and asks if they can't just talk this through...  ...but Ryota's had about enough of that and shows Aoi his video.  With her now brainwashed, Ryota tells her to not let Makoto interfere...  ...and so she restrains him as Ryota walks off.  However, before he goes, he points out that what Makoto said earlier was right - he was now free. What was Ryota's forbidden action in the end?  Yep. All this time, he was being prevented from using the video he has by his forbidden action. But not anymore.  Meanwhile, somewhere else in the building, what one can only presume to be Future Foundation forces come in.  After running through the halls for a while, they eventually spot someone.  It's Ryota! Now, what do you think Ryota is going to do now?  If you answered anything but "use his brainwashing video", well, you're wrong. He then tells the soldier to broadcast this to everybody, and if anybody resists or interferes, to eliminate them. Ryota is absolutely done loving around.  Ryota has essentially graduated to a level beyond Punished Kyosuke by believing that humanity is inherently vulnerable to despair, and as such, for despair to be defeated, humanity itself has to be rewritten.  Meanwhile, Makoto is still struggling with Aoi.  Then, some soldiers show up. They're saved!  Oh, wait, right.   Thankfully, Kyosuke is there to make a last-second save.  So, with the soldiers now restrained and Aoi snapped out of it, Makoto brings Kyosuke up to speed. Kyosuke says it's ironic that while Kazuo aligned himself with the side of despair, it'll be because of him that all despair is wiped out. But then, Makoto figures something crucial out - Kazuo was in fact not aligned to the side of despair. The opposite in fact. He set this entire loving thing up just to push Ryota over the edge, to get him to snap out of his depressed, self-loathing funk and use his video to truly wipe out despair. Remember how all the way back at the beginning, Kazuo seemed confused that Ryota was there? That was because he wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. Kyosuke then asks a poignant question - why not just steal the video? But according to Makoto's logic, that's not the point. The point was for Ryota to realize his potential as an icon of hope.  That's what the message Kazuo wrote was about - it wasn't addressed to Makoto, but to Ryota. So, that was Kazuo's plan all along. Now, there's a lot of issues with this, but I'll not go into that. It'll probably be easier to discuss that in the thread, because there's several angles you can look at this from, especially given that there are two fairly different plans - the one Kazuo originally came up with, and the one he had to bullshit together after Ryota hosed everything up by showing up to the meeting. Anyway, Kyosuke has a bit where he goes on about how you can't call it real hope if you rewrite what it means to be human, which is kinda rich coming from the guy that previously said he'd be OK with it if he was the last human left on Earth if it meant despair was eradicated. Makoto then asks where Ryota would have access to a large broadcasting facility, and Kyosuke says that there's something in the annex with which he could boost the broadcasting capabilities.  However, they then hear soldiers approaching and have to bail.  They hide behind a corner with soldiers in the hall ahead. Makoto asks how they're going to get past, and Kyosuke makes his intentions felt wordlessly.  Indeed, he just runs straight in and draws all their attention, while Makoto and Aoi slip by unnoticed.  All the while, Ryota has already made it to the exit point, thinking to himself about how it'll be just a bit longer.  Kyosuke barricades himself inside a room...  ...namely, the meeting room where it all began. Kyosuke laments to himself that he never should've left Chisa's side.  The soldiers set up to breach the door...  ...but Kyosuke bursts out before that happens, now dual-wielding.   He's also left his makeshift eyepatch with Chisa's corpse.  The other two meanwhile try to run past some more soldiers...  ...but Aoi gets caught in the leg with a bullet.  Ryota slowly climbs a rope.  Makoto tries to patch Aoi up, but she tells him to leave her and deal with Ryota, she'll wait for him here. So Makoto heads out, vowing to return.  After he's left, Aoi then conks out, be it from blood loss or general exhaustion.  Ryota has meanwhile reached the broadcasting facility. Thinking to himself about how there can be no more hesitating or second-guessing...  ...he sets up the broadcast.  Thirty minutes left.  Ryota then imagines what the world would be like once the broadcast starts.  How it would be a better place with no more suffering or betrayal.  We're also shown that his broadcast would have quite the range.   Quite the range indeed.    Also, Makoto, Aoi and Kyosuke all find themselves staring down several gun barrels.  Kyosuke charges the firing soldiers...  ...the timer continues ticking down, Ryota imagines that soon we'll be at the end of this nightmare of history, and... we get the musical stinger indicating the end of the episode. Huh? But we're only like three quarters through!  Well, the episode is kinda done as far as plot advancement is concerned. Instead, we find ourselves back at this mysterious movie theatre that we saw Chisa in way back in Despair Side 1. However, this time, she's not alone!  Junko's here too! She's here to welcome us to the first episode of "What The Housekeeper Saw"!  Well, this is basically just a recap, which, let's face it, is kinda warranted. So, Junko goes over the following points in her usual fashion: Kazuo is the mastermind. He used to be pals with Kyosuke, but they had that whole falling-out because Kyosuke got that whole hardon over eradicating despair by murdering everybody that looks vaguely despairful. That bug, to note, had been placed into his ear by Chisa, who had been messing with Kyosuke's head while in despair mode to gently caress with Future Foundation.  So Kazuo's whole plan was to get Ryota to use his hope video, but Kazuo still wanted Ryota to make that decision on his own, which is why he didn't just steal the video or something like that.   We also still have that whole dangling plot thread of the DR2 crew, which Makoto tried to rescue from despair, but he got arrested before he could work out whether that actually worked or not.  Junko then takes a second out to point out that regardless of how this goes, Future Foundation is kinda hosed. After all, their leader was a homicidal maniac, which is kinda poo poo PR.  And in a way, Chisa gets to bring home the MVP. She ended up being a vital part of driving the DR2 crew to despair, drove both Kyosuke and Kazuo insane, literally reduced Future Foundation to a pile of rubble, and to top it all off, killed herself right infront of her beloved just to make sure he goes nuts. We then get a short monologue from Chisa about how hope never really had a chance, with despair winning the war before it even really began. And now, the future is yesterday's dream come home to die.  And yet, she still thinks that their hope is just getting warmed up.  However, Junko doesn't really care, and gives what is probably the best comeback ever with this line: "Get over yourself, slut. We're dead!" And that's the episode! So yeah, this movie theatre is apparently the Danganronpa version of hell, or the afterlife, or something like that. Insert joke about hell being having to watch DR3 here.  But this episode too has another post-credits stinger. Makoto's still having a lot of guns pointed at him, but somebody is coming to the rescue! It's...  ...Yasuhiro?  He doesn't do too well at this whole "rescuing" thing.  However, somebody else shows up as well.   And he's not happy at all about having guns pointed at him.  Byakuya and his cavalry have arrived.  And meanwhile, somewhere else, there's a lot of... dead? Knocked out? Soldiers, anyway.  And off into the distance walks somebody familiar.  And that's it for the Future Side. Only one episode left - next time, everything comes to a head on the Hope Side. What the gently caress just happened?: This one might get long. Basically, it turns out that Kazuo is the mastermind of all this poo poo. He got the despair videos from Despair!Chisa quite some time back, and knew that Ryota had in the meantime made a corresponding hope video that would brainwash anybody that watches it to destroy their despair. This entire rigmarole was basically just a way to get Ryota pissed off enough to actually want to use his hope video instead of just moping, and the video message he sent Ryota that implies Kazuo was on the side of despair all along finally sends Ryota over the edge. He uses his hope video to brainwash anybody that gets in his way and makes his way to a broadcasting facility in the building and sets up a worldwide broadcast that is due to go off in thirty minutes. Makoto, Aoi and Kyosuke try to chase him down. Aoi gets shot in the leg and can't continue on, Kyosuke is last seen charging a group of brainwashed soldiers, and Makoto seems to be captured by the soldiers, but Byakuya and his agents show up and rescue him. Finally, Hajime seems to have arrived on the scene. Also, the movie theatre we saw Chisa at way back when is apparently hell or something, and Junko is there too. TheMcD fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 23:22
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So in truth, Kazuo did fall to despair, creating this murder game to kill his allies and crush the world's will. This is another good example of we hoped Junko would work, setting things up that even her death would not stop the madness.
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Apr 28, 2019 23:33
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- More brainwashing. Because that wasn't frustrating enough of a cheap motivation a few episodes ago. - Tengan is an idiot. What was his brilliant plan if Ryota wound up near the screens? Or if he got attacked and killed by one of the multiple lunatics in the place? Which almost happened with Ruruka, mind you! I guess that's why he was following him around. But then he died. So, y'know. - I believe Aoi, in the dub, says "Um, who cares?" in response to the Tengan reveal. I concur. - Ryota decides to brainwash everyone in the world, preventing him from taking accountability and facing repercussions for being responsible for all of this to a degree. I think he may be my least favorite character in DR3. - Why make Ryota's forbidden action to not use the video? Especially given that's his master plan in the end. Heck, it's Ryota's only defensive measure against getting killed! I guess he wanted Ryota to want it in the end, but blah. - Even in death, Juzo had to gently caress up one last time by removing the Forbidden Action that prevented Ryota from doing everything he is now.  - Ryota sure is a sympathetic character, telling armed soldiers to shoot an already restrained Naegi and Aoi. - Kyosuke continues to be one of the best DR3 characters by virtue of just being the most anime person that ever lived. - "Get over yourself, slut. We're dead!" is a great line. Junko may be kind of annoyingly handled in DR3, but she gets great one liners. - I kind of wish we saw the dead characters from the series in the movie theater, too. Or, at least, the DR1 cast. And maybe Chiaki. - Hagakure being willing to jump in front of guns to protect Naegi is probably the one thing he does in this series that doesn't make him look like a jerk. It's nice to see he grew up a bit. Too bad it's only for this one moment considering he's been a gag character for the whole anime! - Oh, yeah, Byakuya is still alive and well. I guess him disappearing for several episodes was entirely pointless. More fakeout DR1 deaths! Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 23:49
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I kind of wish we saw the dead characters from the series in the movie theater, too. Or, at least, the DR1 cast. And maybe Chiaki. As much as I agree because I'm a sucker for the DR1 cast, it would take approximately ten seconds for Mondo to bodyslam Junko through the projector and ruin the whole thing. ...Actually that would have been a better episode than Ryota's Brainwashing Adventures.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:08
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So Kazuo’s original plan actually almost makes sense, he knows of and has tangible proof that Ryota’s Anime really can rewrite and control people’s personalities and actions, but Kazuo believes that hope must be a choice made not forced. So the original plan was trap everyone but Ryota and stream the game to Ryota, which would drive Ryota to actually using his video instead of moping at his failure. The new plan appears to be let Ryota live through the game and hope he survives, it’s possible Kazuo has the same deal as Nagito, a fall to despair that has mixed in with their belief in hope so that either is a win in the end. Anyway yeah, Junko’s personality is basically fine it’s the complete failure to follow up any of the interesting parts of the backstory for the tragedy that ruin her. Also it is kind of incredible that in the anime the most powerful force for personality change is an anime, seems kind of self-aggrandising really.
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Apr 29, 2019 01:20
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Lord_Magmar posted:So Kazuo’s original plan actually almost makes sense, he knows of and has tangible proof that Ryota’s Anime really can rewrite and control people’s personalities and actions, but Kazuo believes that hope must be a choice made not forced. Nah. Because if hope must be a choice and not forced, literally brainwashing the entire planet would be a bad thing, because only the brainwasher is making a choice.
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Apr 29, 2019 02:27
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also it is kind of incredible that in the anime the most powerful force for personality change is an anime, seems kind of self-aggrandising really. A popular theory was that DR3 was an anime in universe. Like how DR2's plot twist was "It's a game!"
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Apr 29, 2019 02:52
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FoolyCharged posted:Nah. Because if hope must be a choice and not forced, literally brainwashing the entire planet would be a bad thing, because only the brainwasher is making a choice. The brainwasher is the only person who matters in this case, because he's an Ultimate and the faceless masses aren't. Remember this is the guy who was the head of the Hope's Peak board of trustees or whatever, they were not particularly subtle about Ultimate-level talent being the only important thing.
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Apr 29, 2019 04:22
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:
So he could not just end the game.
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Apr 29, 2019 05:18
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FoolyCharged posted:Nah. Because if hope must be a choice and not forced, literally brainwashing the entire planet would be a bad thing, because only the brainwasher is making a choice. What kvx687 said, in this case it's the Choice of an Ultimate to use their talent for hope, once they've made that choice nobody else matters.
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Apr 29, 2019 05:26
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MonsterEnvy posted:So he could not just end the game. The thing about that is that Ryota would likely not want to publicly use the video if he had a choice because of how tied he is to Junko. Using it as a last resort defensive measure, maybe, but I doubt he'd want to be all "Hey, everyone, I can hypnotize all of you not to kill each other with this." I doubt people would go along with that anyway, especially not the paranoid types like Ruruka.
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Apr 29, 2019 05:29
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:The thing about that is that Ryota would likely not want to publicly use the video if he had a choice because of how tied he is to Junko. Using it as a last resort defensive measure, maybe, but I doubt he'd want to be all "Hey, everyone, I can hypnotize all of you not to kill each other with this." I doubt people would go along with that anyway, especially not the paranoid types like Ruruka. If he is in a life or death situation like he thinks he is, he may just do the show them the video to brainwash them like he did the guards and Aoi.
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Apr 29, 2019 06:18
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So yeah, like I said, Kazuo's plan is, uh, questionable. Here's my take on it: Kazuo's original plan, like Lord_Magmar said, makes some degree of sense. He sets up the killing game, has everything go nuts, and once the game is ended in some way - as a side note, the game wasn't ended after nobody died in the last round (since Makoto was the one selected to be killed but Juzo interfered), so there might've been some bullshit going on that the game was designed to be unwinnable and have everybody die regardless for maximum despair - the video message from Kazuo is sent to Ryota on some sort of dead man's switch, implying that Kazuo was part of the despairs and sending Ryota over the edge. Relatively simple, and the bonus is that it works regardless of whether Kazuo dies early or not. However, then Ryota shows up to the meeting and fucks everything up, and now Kazuo has to think on the fly. The obvious question is "why not throw Ryota out in the time after everybody got knocked out for the first time and got moved into the underwater part of the building, then proceed as planned?". I saw an answer to that somewhere that actually kinda makes sense - if he had arranged for Ryota to get thrown out, Ryota would immediately look extremely suspicious, and since Kazuo is locked in the killing game, he has no real control over what happens to Ryota outside. So leaving Ryota inside and sticking close to him was probably the better call in that case. The next question is "what if Ryota was selected by the attacker algorithm?", but while there's no basis to assume this, I just think there has to be some sort of failsafe in the system that makes it just never choose Ryota. Like, it's such a blatant problem that it has to have been caught. And evidently some degree of time has passed between them getting knocked out the first time and them waking up again, since Kazuo had to make a new bracelet for Ryota as well, so he probably would've had time to fix that problem. Next question: "What if Ryota gets murdered by one of the psychos running around, particularly Juzo and Kyosuke?". Now, Kazuo actually seems to have this relatively well in hand. In Future 4, he takes out Juzo and restrains him...  ...right next to a monitor. So, no points for guessing who would've been the next one to die to the "attacker" if Juzo had stayed restrained. However, Kazuo seems to have underestimated our boy Juzo, for there is nobody who can remotely control him, and as such, restraints only slow him down. Furthermore, Kazuo later pretty clearly tries to basically suicide-attack Kyosuke by grabbing his katana and throwing them both off a walkway. However, Kazuo is no Makoto or Nagito, so poo poo goes south pretty quickly for him, and his last-ditch effort to take out Kyosuke in Future 5 ends up failing probably because he couldn't factor in that Kyosuke had some stuff from Seiko that fixed him up. We can chalk this up as a pretty major failure, but not for lack of trying. Best he could do at that point was trust in Kyoko's ability and Makoto's luck to see Ryota through safely... which did work out in the end! Finally, "why force Ryota to not use his talent through the forbidden actions?". My presumption is that given that Kyosuke was around with his anti-despair boner, anything that could've remotely implicated Ryota in being involved with The Incident should've seriously been kept on the down low. So, say, Juzo attacks Makoto and Ryota panics, using his brainwashing video to save Makoto. First of all, that's going to raise a ton of questions, but more importantly, if somebody like Kyosuke finds out that that happened, he's going to beeline for Ryota. At least as is with Ryota being forced to essentially do nothing, he stays harmless and doesn't make himself a target. So while there are some flaws in the plan, I'm mostly going to ascribe them to Kazuo flying by the seat of his pants after getting caught off guard by Ryota showing up to the meeting. It's not as completely braindead as it seems.
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Apr 29, 2019 15:47
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TheMcD posted:In Future 4, he takes out Juzo and restrains him... Well. That's a subtle detail I never noticed.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:12
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TheMcD posted:Finally, "why force Ryota to not use his talent through the forbidden actions?". There's also the point that it draws Ryota's attention to the fact he could use the anime to stop everything. Everyone seemingly goes crazy from despair and kills each other while his bracelet is basically going "Don't you dare make them all stop *Wink**Wink*" to encourage him to get to the point where he is willing to brainwash the world.
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Apr 29, 2019 16:29
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Speaking of the rules, Munakata not being allowed to open doors is meant to specifically slow him down a bunch, same as Juzo’s rule, so they don’t just get free reign to kill everyone to “solve” the problem via brute force. Although there was a somewhat tasteless joke made about Munakata’s rule. Munakata can’t open doors because otherwise he’d be able to find Juzo in the closet.
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Apr 29, 2019 17:35
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