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Are they wrong though? Everyone talks about theoretical gains made in the market if only you invested but are people actually receiving them or is it just more lying from the investor class that wants its hands on your money? I wouldn’t trust them with my money at all, they’ll just bleed it all away with fees until nothing’s left.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:23
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Oh gently caress yeah, this all day. I would guess that at least half the workforce thinks their own contributions are subject to the vesting schedule as well. Without match I'd have such a poo poo return it would not be worth investing in a 401k.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:24
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Shipon posted:Are they wrong though? Everyone talks about theoretical gains made in the market if only you invested but are people actually receiving them or is it just more lying from the investor class that wants its hands on your money? Ummmm.....what? Yes, plenty of people are investing responsibly in their retirement and seeing meaningful appreciation that are not in the "investor class." It is done by not being a doofus and treating the stock market like a casino. Responsible investing is boring.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:28
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:No, it's logical regardless. Not contributing with a match is "leaving money on the table" while not contributing with no match is "putting a nice dinner on the table once in a while." People want to see tangible results and not just a paycut. Because of the specific funds with high fees that are available to your (Submarine Sandpaper's) 401k? My fuzzy napkin math indicates that the tax benefits of a 401k are "worth" dealing with up to a ~2% fee compared to no-fee taxabale investing.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:33
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:No, it's logical regardless. Not contributing with a match is "leaving money on the table" while not contributing with no match is "putting a nice dinner on the table once in a while." People want to see tangible results and not just a paycut. you know that 401k contributions are not taxed right and what in gently caress are you investing in that you have bad returns drat dude Shipon posted:Are they wrong though? Everyone talks about theoretical gains made in the market if only you invested but are people actually receiving them or is it just more lying from the investor class that wants its hands on your money? my very sensibly and somewhat conservatively invested 401(k) returned 22% net of fees, etc over the last two years so i'm not sure what this is all about
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Apr 26, 2019 19:35
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:No, it's logical regardless. Not contributing with a match is "leaving money on the table" while not contributing with no match is "putting a nice dinner on the table once in a while." People want to see tangible results and not just a paycut. I dunno I'll take "putting ANY dinner on the table when I'm 70" over "splurging on food I can't really afford now" any day I don't know what sort of 401(k) you have available to you, but your alternative is to invest in something else (IRA, taxable brokerage, etc.), not spending your future away on temporary luxuries that literally turn to poo poo within 24 hours.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:36
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^^^ /e those judgement can really only be made when you're already secure. Most aren't, see wages. I put it in a roth. Company's smarter people have retirement target plans. Never looked too closely to see if they're Teslaheads or w/e because gently caress that effort. Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Apr 26, 2019 |
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Apr 26, 2019 19:37
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:
It would be smart to contribute obviously. I can't really blame someone if the choice is contribute and get match plus long term market gains or put it on credit card with 20% interest to feed family. Typically people are not using a budget and all that but I can at least understand the mindset.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:39
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:No, it's logical regardless. Not contributing with a match is "leaving money on the table" while not contributing with no match is "putting a nice dinner on the table once in a while." People want to see tangible results and not just a paycut. Retirement accounts aren’t known for their instant gratification. I could be wrong though.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:41
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wait wait are we talking about postponing retirement savings in order to put ANY food on the table, or just "putting a nice dinner on the table once in a while" here? Because those are wildly different things.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:42
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you know that 401k contributions are not taxed right Some workplaces offer really garbage 401k options with high fees.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:42
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spwrozek posted:It would be smart to contribute obviously. I can't really blame someone if the choice is contribute and get match plus long term market gains or put it on credit card with 20% interest to feed family. Typically people are not using a budget and all that but I can at least understand the mindset. I agree, but these specific people are making over $150k a year and spending every last penny truck equity-tier dumb poo poo. It's just using your kids as an excuse to spend your whole paycheck.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:43
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Vox Nihili posted:Some workplaces offer really garbage 401k options with high fees. Even if there is no match and 2% fees it's still worth doing if you work there for like 7 years or less. If you know you are a lifer, there is no match, the fees are 2% and there is no hope of that changing any time soon.. then yeah it makes sense to invest in just an IRA and then taxable investments instead.
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Apr 26, 2019 19:44
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Vox Nihili posted:Some workplaces offer really garbage 401k options with high fees. even if you're carving out 150bps a year in fees for some total market fund you are still not going to end up with such a poo poo return that it's not worth investing at all
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Apr 26, 2019 19:46
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Buy equities with every cent it doesn't take you to buy groceries at Aldi and keep your bike tires full for your trips to and from work.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:00
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:^^^ /e those judgement can really only be made when you're already secure. Most aren't, see wages. So wait a second here, what funds are in your roth that your company's 401(k) is giving you poo poo returns in comparison? There's only so many things retirement plans can generally choose from, there must be something that has low enough ERs that you would make off better by putting pre-tax money in to your 401(k).
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Apr 26, 2019 20:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:even if you're carving out 150bps a year in fees for some total market fund you are still not going to end up with such a poo poo return that it's not worth investing at all An IRA might be a better option especially if you're not a high earner.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:02
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DaveSauce posted:So wait a second here, what funds are in your roth that your company's 401(k) is giving you poo poo returns in comparison? not in comparison. Fees are also not a thing for me anymore but that's only because they were such a problem the company decided to pick them up. I'm just saying when you're paycheck to paycheck a good meal means more than packing away 40/mo for 40 years later.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:10
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Anyone who grew up poor can attest that "Gotta spend the money before it's gone" is a difficult mindset to break, even decades later
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Apr 26, 2019 20:13
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This thread is a glistening obelisk to the reality that anyone can live paycheck to paycheck no matter the size of that paycheck.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:17
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:not in comparison. Fees are also not a thing for me anymore but that's only because they were such a problem the company decided to pick them up. wait i'm confused you literally just said: Submarine Sandpaper posted:Without match I'd have such a poo poo return it would not be worth investing in a 401k. If fees are not a thing then I'm even more baffled. You either have the world's worst 401(k) offerings or there's something missing here. quote:I'm just saying when you're paycheck to paycheck a good meal means more than packing away 40/mo for 40 years later. Well yes, literally living paycheck to paycheck is a situation where saving for retirement is the last thing you do. I'm not going to be the one to get on someone's case for breaking the beans/rice monotony by splurging on canned tuna. But there's a difference between actually living paycheck-to-paycheck, and spending yourself into that scenario. Most Americans fall in to the latter (see: truck equity).
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Apr 26, 2019 20:17
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I agree, but these specific people are making over $150k a year and spending every last penny truck equity-tier dumb poo poo. It's just using your kids as an excuse to spend your whole paycheck. I kind of thought that would be the response but I didn't want to fully assume.......
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Apr 26, 2019 20:21
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Anyone who grew up poor can attest that "Gotta spend the money before it's gone" is a difficult mindset to break, even decades later I finally got to a point in the last two years where I don’t live paycheck to paycheck and learning to control your spending gets exponentially harder when you actually have money to spend. I’m just now in the last six or so months getting the discipline to not spend it just because I have it.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:21
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This might be the most Poe's Law page this thread has ever seen
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Apr 26, 2019 20:47
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:This thread is a glistening obelisk to the reality that anyone can live paycheck to paycheck no matter the size of that paycheck.
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Apr 26, 2019 20:48
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https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/bhp934/parents_are_taking_a_100k_home_equity_loan_to_pay/quote:Parents are taking a $100K home equity loan to pay off $75K credit card debt
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Apr 26, 2019 20:53
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Vox Nihili posted:An IRA might be a better option especially if you're not a high earner. Agreed!
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Apr 26, 2019 21:11
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DaveSauce posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/bhp934/parents_are_taking_a_100k_home_equity_loan_to_pay/ that could be a good idea provided they have fixed the underlying spending problems lol
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Apr 26, 2019 21:12
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I agree, but these specific people are making over $150k a year and spending every last penny truck equity-tier dumb poo poo. It's just using your kids as an excuse to spend your whole paycheck. We have the same kind in my office, so it isn’t just your company. Our 401k isn’t perfect, but is better than taxable at least?
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Apr 26, 2019 21:16
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:This thread is a glistening obelisk to the reality that anyone can live paycheck to paycheck no matter the size of that paycheck. ...glistening?
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Apr 26, 2019 21:37
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It's me, I'm the BWM, please don't probate me My brother owes me a little over $3k for getting his car out of repo and keeping a roof over his and his family's heads, because he is BWM, BWL, and BWCondoms. He has two accidental kids with a woman he doesn't much like and they have her son every other week. Him coming to me at the 11th hour when the late fees have already been tacked on is a pattern with him, and the only reason they got the last month of rent out of me was because guilt got the better of me as it was December and I was vacationing in Hawaii. I knew how much I was willing to spend because I gave it with the understanding I would probably never see it again, but it's important to his dumb mind to keep calling it a loan and promising to start paying me back "sometime next month". Of course, on April 25th he "just found out today that if I don't get my payment in tonight they're gonna start the eviction notice. So I'll have to shell out an extra $300 to cancel that" and decided me telling him not to wait until the last minute covered this scenario. Back in December my husband and I talked to him and let him know he could just keep what we'd already given him and there'd be no hard feelings but the door would be shut, or he could come up with a payment plan, pay it down, and we'd be willing to help him out in the future. We also offered to pay for credit/debt counseling so they could get their house in order without either of us being directly involved in their finances (besides keeping them from being homeless lol), but he blew me off. We bought them 3 new smartphones so they'd stop throwing money away on Boost Mobile bullshit leases for garbage and use Google Fi which is cheaper for them, without even suggesting they get dumb phones. We have been generous with money every Xmas, who knows there tf that goes. In December when he came begging for the rent, he said he was short because he had to buy winter clothes for the kids, but when I asked for their sizes because I wanted to buy them, and it'd be cheaper for me to buy and ship than it would be for them, crickets. So I told him no because we had an agreement, and told him I was pissed he kept trying to play me for a fool. Since he didn't want to honor it, he could come up with a spending/expense report for the last two months by Friday, and we'd work out a budget and repayment plan or I'd block his number. Oh BTW he still smokes, I'm estimating $300/mo on cigarettes based on what he and the girlfriend smoke, and hosted Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter for both families! But "I've put more work in this week than I probably have in my entire life just to keep these kids fed." I talk down to him about the money by...never bringing it up and telling him not to worry about it, and I similarly look down my nose at the work he does for telling him when he volunteers that his 'boss' tells him where and when to show up that he's an employee, not an independent contractor, and he shouldn't be charging him to use the equipment. Or that when he volunteers that Gamestop told him he'd get 40hr/wk because he was replacing a shithead shift lead who was getting canned, but then the shift lead had a fire lit under their rear end so he's barely getting 15, he'd know at the next place he looked that if they haven't fired them already, they're not going to. But regarding the budget: "I've been waiting til I get enough time off to sit down with <girlfriend> and work out the budget, I can do that myself and I can make an actual budget now that I'm making enough to support my monthly expenses. We just made a budget last month which revealed I'm just not making enough, so I got a better paying job. I'm just a little behind <lol it's fine it's just three grand>, I'm not asking for charity or gonna have you waste your time telling me what I already know. And literally everything I've spent money on the last 2 months is bills and gas and food. I can guarantee you I won't ask for help again but blocking my number is just gonna make it harder for me to pay you back, which I'm actually in a position to do." But then: "My only money problem is that I don't and can't make enough money to get ahead. ...I'm not gonna be demeaned and have someone demand insight to my personal life that they have no right to in the process. I know how to budget when I actually have the money to budget. I'm not fuckin helpless." It occurs to me he could probably make some money as one of those scammers who pretends to be the IRS and demands $300 on iTunes gift cards, what with all the bullshit that comes out of his mouth.
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Apr 26, 2019 21:41
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DaveSauce posted:But there's a difference between actually living paycheck-to-paycheck, and spending yourself into that scenario. Most Americans fall in to the latter (see: truck equity). But what if I need that truck for my white collar job? You just don’t understand truck culture and how big it is in *insert US city here*
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Apr 26, 2019 21:41
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BonerGhost posted:It's me, I'm the BWM, please don't probate me I know it's tough with family, but sometimes you just have to  .
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Apr 26, 2019 21:52
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BonerGhost posted:It's me, I'm the BWM, please don't probate me Stop buying him candles.
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Apr 26, 2019 21:53
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You’re learning this the hard way, but that whole, “we’ll forget everything if you just don’t borrow money again.” never works. Also the “kids need clothes” trick. Deadbeats must have a newsletter they subscribe because they all use the same tactics. Including the one where they wait until the last minute so you have to pay Western Union fees to keep your nephews from homelessness.
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Apr 26, 2019 22:14
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BonerGhost posted:It's me, I'm the BWM, please don't probate me So what are he and his GF hooked on? Because this is addicts.txt right here.
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Apr 26, 2019 22:30
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Cyrano4747 posted:So what are he and his GF hooked on? It smells like a drug problem to me too.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:06
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Cyrano4747 posted:So what are he and his GF hooked on? Nicotine.
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Apr 27, 2019 00:23
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Vox Nihili posted:Nicotine. Know what makes cigarettes waaaay better? Aderall and meth
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Apr 27, 2019 01:00
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Cyrano4747 posted:So what are he and his GF hooked on? Living above their means. And food, my bro is fat af I've already blocked his number and feel fine about it. I gave him more than a fair shot. I'm going air force golfing tomorrow so I hope to collect more bwm for you fine folks.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:09
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