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Raenir Salazar posted:I disagree about that the time travel, I think there's definitely two branch realities for sure now with a Thanos-less 2014 and a Loose Loki universe; it doesn't HAVE to make sense, it's time travel! It only needs to NARRATIVELY make sense and even then, eh, see Primer Three. Prime cap created a new branch to be with Peggy.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:57
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teagone posted:Three. Prime cap created a new branch to be with Peggy. But he's at the end of the movie. The movie makes clear that the characters won't live in the "alternate universes," their present and future remains unchanged. Cap had to come back to the "present" at some point to say goodbye. The pasts he went back to to return the stones are completely disconnected from the present that all the characters are living in.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:06
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Hearing "On your left". A huge emotional impact, from such a small sentiment.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:10
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Ego-bot posted:Funniest part of the whole movie is when Scarlet Witch is getting ready to fight Thanos That was really funny. It's funny to imagine that Thanos is thinking, "I was just trying to help and wipe out half the universe, but everyone now seems REALLY mad at me!"
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Apr 28, 2019 05:16
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wait shouldn't Peter Parker's buddy and classmates be 5 years older than him now? Same for Green Arrow's family, everyone else, etc?
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Apr 28, 2019 05:16
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ungulateman posted:captain america should not be white, either because a: he should be a drone, to represent the american military, or b: he should be the most interracial man alive, to represent america more accurately Captain America was a product of its time that can grow beyond the original.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:17
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Pook Good Mook posted:But he's at the end of the movie. The movie makes clear that the characters won't live in the "alternate universes," their present and future remains unchanged. Cap had to come back to the "present" at some point to say goodbye. The pasts he went back to to return the stones are completely disconnected from the present that all the characters are living in. Cap can in theory be with Peggy because it's a potential closed loop OR it's not the same Cap from Earth-Prime! To quote MovieBob, TIME. TRAVEL. IS. WEEEEEEEEIRD. The Peggy that died in Earth-Prime might have just pretended that they were never together as to not clue Cap in, taking that moment, that possibility, to her death bed, as to not possibly lose it. This can be true AND for their to be parallel branching timeline now for events that changed for which there is no reconciliation, such as Loki grabbing the Tesseract and running or Thanos jumping to the future. These two events entirely make it clear there are alternate realities, it's just that Cap's was able to reintegrate with the main line seamlessly (or did it!? dun dun dun) but the 2014-Timeline likely did NOT; but the characters could still return to Earth Prime; because likely alternative timelines and parallel realities are basically indistinguishable when it comes to quantum tunneling form of time travel. FistEnergy posted:wait shouldn't Peter Parker's buddy and classmates be 5 years older than him now? Same for Green Arrow's family, everyone else, etc? Obvious answer is his whole class got snapped. I.e they were brought back to five years later how they were when they died, they weren't in limbo continuing to age.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:17
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FistEnergy posted:wait shouldn't Peter Parker's buddy and classmates be 5 years older than him now? Same for Green Arrow's family, everyone else, etc? Hawkeye's family was snapped. Presumably Peter's buddy and any classmate who is remotely relevant was also snapped.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:17
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Avengers: Endgame
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Apr 28, 2019 05:20
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As I said, time travel in this movie appears to generally work by Dragon Ball rules, creating alternate timelines that you may be able to return to. Until it doesn't. I figured the bit with Peter Parker at the end is meant to signify that he's finding school strange because a lot of his classmates who didn't get snapped have moved on with their lives now, but some were and are back as they were.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:23
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Like it's entirely possible that for every choice Cap makes when he went back in time, spawned an innumerable number of alternate timelines; with just one where he makes it back to Earth-Prime 2019 in his old age. I.e might be a timeline where he goes back and defeats America Hydra when it's most vulnerable and so on. Under the Quantum Immortality theory. If you take a gun, and set it up so it has a 50% chance of firing and killing you instantly, and 50% it does not, and keep pulling the trigger each time it fails to shoot; there is at least one timeline where probabilistically the gun NEVER goes off, and there is precisely one timeline wherein you are immortal from all deaths from random chance. Thus there is at least one timeline where Cap makes it back to Earth-Prime the long way, because however unlikely it's possible and only needs to succeed once for it to occur in Earth-Prime. The most likely explanation might be the Self-Correction theory by Cherenkov I think? The timeline will try to correct itself from small disturbances; and it's only the big irreconcilable ones that become their own branches. Maybe we'll see the World Tree.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:24
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935 posted:If you want to show girl power, just have female heros doing normal hero stuff. Take Captain Marvel, her entire solo movie wouldn't have had to change a beat if Captain Marvel had been male (except a single song by No Doubt). I hope my tone isn't too combative. I recognize that within the two discussions I'm participating in, there seems to be a few positions: - Speculating about time travel fiction is super fun, and - This movie is bullshit because it didn't explain temporal mechanics to my personal satisfaction and is therefore bad. And on the other track: - I have legit gripes about how this film treats women, and - I don't like that there were a lot of women in one frame doing cool superhero poo poo. These aren't the only four, but they're the loudest. And it's hard to know who's discussing a thing, and who's got an axe to grind, because genre fiction tends to attract an incredibly entitled sort of MAGA chud who complains about Captain America of all things being "political," for example, and while I sometimes enjoy arguing the merits of how I feel a movie succeeded in conveying its themes and ideas versus other people's feelings about how plots should be explained, a lot of us are tired of being talked down to in genre threads for enjoying things that don't relegate women, queer people, people of color... really any marginalized group as anything but supporting cast, and I keep catching myself taking on a more combative tone than I otherwise would because I'm so used to engaging with people who are acting in bad faith.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:28
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Remote User posted:Hearing "On your left". A huge emotional impact, from such a small sentiment. I gotta admit I had a big cheesy grin on my face when Cap told his future self "I could do this all day."
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Apr 28, 2019 05:36
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Funny thing is that this is basically the first time anyone acknowledges how hosed up it was that the Avengers were working with an organisation that was a cover for fascists from the beginning.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:39
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ruddiger posted:I gotta admit I had a big cheesy grin on my face when Cap told his future self "I could do this all day." I was disappointed he didn't say it to Thanos.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:41
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ruddiger posted:I gotta admit I had a big cheesy grin on my face when Cap told his future self "I could do this all day." After being almost completely sidelined in Infinity War it was definitely nice to see them give Chris Evans something to do.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:44
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Funny thing is that this is basically the first time anyone acknowledges how hosed up it was that the Avengers were working with an organisation that was a cover for fascists from the beginning.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:45
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live with fruit posted:Are people really mad that Captain America retired after literally saving the universe? He, Thor and Iron Man let a space god beat the poo poo out of them to save everyone's life. He earned the right to kick back. Yeah, I don't get it. Let the dude have a nice life. Like you are a genuinely good person, defeat the Nazis, defeat Hydra, and then save the universe, and THEN return all the magic stones throughout time to where they belong which was probably an adventure, I think you should be able to go live a happy life with the girl you like. And still remember to bring the shield back decades later to your successor. That seems good enough.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:51
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With the SMG posts questioning about why didn't they undo the thing at the end of the film, I agree with him. He is saying Strange could have used the Time stone to save Tony, but didn't. People are saying this is a bad idea because this would undo the killing of Thanos and his army. But it wouldn't. In Strange's own film, he uses the stone to, among other things: Reverse the eating of an apple and repair a lost page from a book. Doing this does not mean the apple is never eaten or the page is never torn out, it is a localized reversal. Mads still has the page he stole from the book and uses it, but it also reappears in the book for Strange to read. The spell just reverting the book to its prior state, not undoing the page being torn out. This is the important point. Same with Thanos "saving" Vision and the Mind Stone in Infinity War. He doesn't wind back time so Wanda never kills Vision, he just reverses the effects of Wanda's powers on Vision and the stone. Time all around them flows as normal, once again it is a localized reversal. Other characters watch it happen, all time doesn't flow back, only in a small area. Magic! So in this one, it is possible that Strange could reverse the damage to Starks body, without undoing the event that caused the damage, as in the above examples. Reverting his body to it's previous "Not Dead" state, like the apple, the book and Vision + the stone. You could say that Strange is only capable of undoing damage to an apple or a book and a human being is a whole other story and only Thanos had the power to "save" Vision, but that isn't in the movie. So yeah, Strange straight up let Stark die for no reason. I don't mind though, as far as I'm concerned, Iron Man has been the real villain of all these films, so good job Doc! You got him!
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Apr 28, 2019 05:56
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ImpAtom posted:Hawkeye's family was snapped. Presumably Peter's buddy and any classmate who is remotely relevant was also snapped. oh yeah that's right. Thanks. Too much to remember
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Apr 28, 2019 05:56
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The nerd in me is miffed that a no stones Thanos somehow held his own and whupped Thor, Cap, and Iron Man. But powers as the plot demands, etc. And he had a big stupid double bladed sword!
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Apr 28, 2019 05:59
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Ghost Head posted:yeah out of necessity. They hadn't killed him yet. Once they had that victory under their belts going back in time and rolling the dice on a new outcome that, if it failed, would see the universe "shredded to the last atom" is a horrible horrible idea I repeat myself. They killed him, and then they went back in time and rolled the dice on a new outcome, that if it failed, would see the universe shredded to the last atom. That's the plot of the film. The part where they don't do it again - or do it better in the first place, really - is an ideological fantasy. Phylodox posted:At the end of Endgame, they’re living the best possible outcome. The risk isn’t worth it, especially given the complicated nature of winding back Tony’s snap etc. "This is the best of all possible worlds." That's the fantasy the MCU is built upon. What a terrifying thought. ungulateman fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 06:01
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LividLiquid posted:You're allowed to like what you like, but a substantial portion of my theater's girls and women marked the gently caress out at that moment; me included. What if someone thinks all the senseless pandering is stupid including the parts for men
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Apr 28, 2019 06:01
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Only thing I'm legit bummed about is that Steve and Bucky didn't kiss goodbye Huge missed opportunity after so many movies of buildup and tension.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:03
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garycoleisgod posted:So yeah, Strange straight up let Stark die for no reason. I don't mind though, as far as I'm concerned, Iron Man has been the real villain of all these films, so good job Doc! You got him! This is the one timeline where Strange managed to get rid of both Thanos and Iron Man
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Apr 28, 2019 06:03
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Apr 28, 2019 06:04
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Aurubin posted:The nerd in me is miffed that a no stones Thanos somehow held his own and whupped Thor, Cap, and Iron Man. But powers as the plot demands, etc. And he had a big stupid double bladed sword! Word of the Writers is that Thanos didn't even use the power stone when he made Hulk into a jobber. He is legit terrifyingly powerful even without the stones. And the problem with Captain Marvel isn't that she's a godly powerful flying sparkling becky. It's that the writing is crap and the acting matches it. User fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 06:06
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She’s posting in this thread from the hospital
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Apr 28, 2019 06:06
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garycoleisgod posted:With the SMG posts questioning about why didn't they undo the thing at the end of the film, I agree with him. Strange doesn't waltz in and use it because likely there was too strong a possibility that using it would cause them to fail, and for Thanos to get the stones. It's why Strange also doesn't use the stone in Infinity War, because presumably if he does Thanos would have managed to take it from Strange regardless, it doesn't make Strange invincible, it can't for sure freeze Thanos, the Maw guy was able to fight Strange and basically beat him regardless of it and that WAS with Strange using it actively or trying to. FOR SURE using the Time Stone ALSO means undoing the Snap Tony made. It isn't clear he can differentiate an event caused by all five stones with the power of just one stone.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:07
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Now that I have a moment I'd like Far From Home to be written as if it's happening after the Iron Snap, only for the last scene before the credits to be on the bus, everyone happy their totally crazy adventure in Europe with coincidental special appearance by SpiderMan was fun and memorable. Then Pete's arm hairs tingle, he looks up at the sudden spaceship in low orbit and turns to Ned... As for Cap, pretty sure his justification for going back to Peggy is rooted in him seeing her again in 197x. I felt the scene, in retrospect, was about him not being able to move on and realize that yeah, it's her, and that he just won't be able to get over losing the love of his life. His decision didnt seem so out of left field to me. FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 06:07
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ungulateman posted:I repeat myself. They killed him, and then they went back in time and rolled the dice on a new outcome, that if it failed, would see the universe shredded to the last atom. That's the plot of the film. The part where they don't do it again - or do it better in the first place, really - is an ideological fantasy. The Marvel Cinematic Universe: Better Things Aren't Possible about right for a movie series borne at the height of neoliberalism
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Apr 28, 2019 06:08
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garycoleisgod posted:With the SMG posts questioning about why didn't they undo the thing at the end of the film, I agree with him. This is all rendered null because Strange would have to wind time back to before Stark snapped his fingers in order to revive him. This also means there would be two time stones: one taken from the gauntlet post snap, and another when winding back Tony to just before the snap. That doesn't make sense. And we don't know exactly how the infinity stones interact with the space time continuum, other than it's dangerous to meddle with. Like, winding back Tony where he snaps backwards could also inadvertently un-dust Thanos and his armies. We don't know.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:08
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I cried during Endgame... because it was so bad 
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Apr 28, 2019 06:15
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God I just loving love that the Russos have just pitched Black Widow entirely, the most useless character in the franchise, and even threw in a "SHE CAN'T COME BACK DON'T ASK WHY OKAY MOVING ON"Raenir Salazar posted:To quote MovieBob, lmao
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Apr 28, 2019 06:17
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ImpAtom posted:I doubt Disney as a whole is Suddenly Woke. They're not even superficially woke. they made a movie called Black Panther about a CIA agent interferring in an African country's elections in order to keep a sympathetic leader in power. The villan's plan was to arm downtrodden black people.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:17
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To quote SarcasticBritishTony,
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Apr 28, 2019 06:17
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The movie didn't feel like it was three and a half hours long and there wasn't any dead time/go get food time in the middle. Loved the Cap and hammer moment. I was surprised that they simply didn't change things back to a pre-snap universe but Tony's five year old daughter was good way of explaining why they wouldn't. Steve saying "I'm not telling" was almost a necessary way of telling the audience they weren't getting an explanation about the shield or what he did other than getting married. There is an in-universe explanation if they ever want a young Steve Rogers again. I I didn't mind the girl power moment. It made me think of the Defenders comic from a few years back. My greatest takeaway from the scene was "Oh, Valkyrie's s got her horse back."
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Apr 28, 2019 06:20
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Pirate Jet posted:God I just loving love that the Russos have just pitched Black Widow entirely, the most useless character in the franchise, and even threw in a "SHE CAN'T COME BACK DON'T ASK WHY OKAY MOVING ON" Nazi's and chuds hate him so he's good. 
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Apr 28, 2019 06:22
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teagone posted:This is all rendered null because Strange would have to wind time back to before Stark snapped his fingers in order to revive him. This also means there would be two time stones: one taken from the gauntlet post snap, and another when winding back Tony to just before the snap. That doesn't make sense. And we don't know exactly how the infinity stones interact with the space time continuum, other than it's dangerous to meddle with. Like, winding back Tony where he snaps backwards could also inadvertently un-dust Thanos and his armies. We don't know. But, we DO know. It has already happened in previous movies like I said. Undoing the page tear doesn't mean Mads suddenly doesn't have the page and is unable to do his ritual. It just reverts the state of the book. The torn out page remains torn out and in Mads possession. When Thanos winds back Vision, Vision and the stone are made whole, but it doesn't mean that Wanda never destroyed them. It still happened, the only thing reversed is the effect of the action, the action itself (page being torn out of a book, Wanda killing her boyfriend etc) STILL happened. All time doesn't rewind, just the state of Vision and the stone. So if Strange does the same thing to Iron Man, if the prior examples hold (and we have nothing else to go on) all that would happen is that the damage to Tony's body would be healed, but the event that caused it (killing Thanos and friends) would still happen. The real reason this doesn't happen is because it means that events would cease to have any meaning because anything could be fixed. Probably should have thought of that before they created those powers.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:22
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Darth Brooks posted:The movie didn't feel like it was three and a half hours long and there wasn't any dead time/go get food time in the middle. I kind of wish they'd had an intermission. Fortunately I have an iron bladder, but it would have been nice to be able to get a refill.
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Apr 28, 2019 06:22
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