|
MazeOfTzeentch posted:Is there a regulation on the V angle in the engines? 180° counts, right? If there is, I can't find it. The actual engine specs aren't part of the Indycar rulebook, they just specify "sealed engines as provided by manufacturer". Also, how am I not surprised that even in 2019, Indycar would still define everything in inches.
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2019 20:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:34 |
|
|
You probably wouldn’t want to run a modern V angle that wide in a modern open wheel car.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2019 20:29
|
|
|
More or less all of the engine technical specs are set between Honda and Chevy, and aren't public anymore. I think they even hire their own third party to examine each others engines and stuff. I think they've decided that its better to not air the dirty laundry, as all that does it drag the series (and their marketing value!) down. The "coopetition" between Honda and Chevy really is strange, and I imagine the high standards they set for each other after the Lotus debacle is part of the reason getting a third in the mix has been a slow process. Gotta play at their level, and within the cooperative framework, or you can't play. It's funny on the rule book side cause the entire thing is now written for the teams exclusively. Barely addresses any supplier specifications at all, just "you have to use the supplier spec".
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2019 20:56
|
|
|
Synthetic Hermit posted:Having an aisle seat means you can easily move aside to let people past.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
Porsche always used a V8 for their IndyCar adventure in the past anyways. The more interesting part of that is the combination “joining the main series” plus “having Carrera GT Cup as support,” proving there’s also an idea of how Porsche would activate and further support. Would be nice but Racer’s also reporting that it has cooled off in recent weeks, which is probably why the news has leaked out a bit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2019 06:03
|
|
|
Sounds like there were discussions at Barber since they had the IMSA Porsche GT3 there that weekend getting all the major players there was easy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2019 16:16
|
|
|
Porsche are fickle as gently caress with their motorsport programs nowadays, for what it's worth.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 17:34
|
|
|
to be fair the IndyCar program would be very cheap but still VAG has been skittish since Dieselgate. that being said, I don't see what any VAG brand gets out of IndyCar.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 18:21
|
|
|
Proud Christian Mom posted:to be fair the IndyCar program would be very cheap but still VAG has been skittish since Dieselgate. that being said, I don't see what any VAG brand gets out of IndyCar. Cheapish open wheel on a relatively high profile series. It's much cheaper than F1 and that's probably the big factor
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 18:28
|
|
|
Proud Christian Mom posted:to be fair the IndyCar program would be very cheap but still VAG has been skittish since Dieselgate. that being said, I don't see what any VAG brand gets out of IndyCar. Gotta sell more Macans.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 18:38
|
|
|
Wirth1000 posted:Gotta sell more Macans. I see so many Porsche SUVs compared their two-door offerings (and even the Panamera) it's not even funny.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
iospace posted:I see so many Porsche SUVs compared their two-door offerings (and even the Panamera) it's not even funny. iirc they sell more Cayennes that every non-SUV combined. rich people driving tarted up Volkswagens are subsidizing some seriously cool cars
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 19:28
|
|
|
That's because Macans are pretty cheap brand new and Cayennes on the used market are ridiculously cheap. You can buy a 10 year old Cayenne for like $2k and that's an extremely easy way to say you drive and own a Porsche.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 19:29
|
|
|
Wirth1000 posted:That's because Macans are pretty cheap brand new and Cayennes on the used market are ridiculously cheap. You can buy a 10 year old Cayenne for like $2k and that's an extremely easy way to say you drive and own a Porsche. What's wrong with America, the post.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 19:42
|
|
|
Speaking of this, and I guess its IndyCar relevant soon, I see so many goddamn Stelvios. I didn't even know the thing was on sale and they started popping up full of rich, fit white women sitting so low they cant see over the steering wheel driving to crossfit. As a fat poor guy, they must be marketing them somewhere I don't see.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 19:49
|
|
|
care of Matt Archuleta ( https://twitter.com/indy44 )on twitter, current Vegas odds for the 500:     Pato, Herta, Daly look tasty. I dare someone to bet on Jay Howard considering well...
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 20:01
|
|
|
i'm still not convinced ben hanley is a real person
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 21:25
|
|
|
40/1 on Daly not so much. Rossi and Sato used to be great bets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2019 21:47
|
|
|
60/1 for Colton? What the hell?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 01:02
|
|
|
I'm a bit...anxious that Porsche cooled off over the lack of an electric engine formula. ... I hope this doesn't sound rude but I've really despised the current engine formula in F1 and the overall concept of Formula E. While I am fascinated by the idea of an electric powered sports car? I really despise the lack of sound. It's a part of the experience of attending an auto race or driving a car itself in some ways. I just want...cars that sound like the old CART cars. I know that's asking a lot, but drat guys.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 05:07
|
|
|
I just want a rumour associated with IndyCar pertaining to a new manufacturer, races, or Fernando Alonso to actually amount to something instead of weeks of teasing before "oh, it cooled off"
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 05:19
|
|
|
Wirth1000 posted:I just want a rumour associated with IndyCar pertaining to a new manufacturer, races, or Fernando Alonso to actually amount to something instead of weeks of teasing before "oh, it cooled off" Ford. That's the white whale I want but they really should be slapped on an IndyCar again. I love looking at the Coyote, Brawner Hawk, Colt, and Reynards in the IMS museum that are indeed powered by Ford. I'm overjoyed that the Ford GT is a thing again. I LOVE the Wood Bros/Penske combo over in Cup. I just love the brand period. It's sad. Edsel being so stupidly stubborn over it is bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 06:23
|
|
|
I’ve heard BMW, Toyota, and FCA tossed around. Toyota makes the most sense out of those 3, to me. They have the most money and don’t really have a presence in other NA series aside from NASCAR.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 12:05
|
|
|
Frond posted:Toyota makes the most sense out of those 3, to me. They have the most money and don’t really have a presence in other NA series aside from NASCAR. how dare you overlook their NHRA contributions of *checks notes* slapping their logo on a boilerplate funny car body
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 16:33
|
|
|
I’m wondering if it’s a case of manufacturers having genuine interest but they want their own manufacturer ran team. They try to push for the rules to be changed, get told no there won’t be manufacturer teams allowed and that’s when things “cool”
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 20:39
|
|
|
FuzzySkinner posted:I'm a bit...anxious that Porsche cooled off over the lack of an electric engine formula. It is absolutely not going to happen. Once you step outside of the engineering exercise, the PU concept has been hard going in F1, and more to the point, outrageously expensive. They are engines nobody really wanted; not the fans, and not the teams. They're here now and they're pretty impressive on paper but it's been and continues to be a violently expensive exercise. Porsche and others are looking for a high-visibility showcase, but they don't want to spend much money; it is the same reason they have not bothered with F1: It costs too much. The hybrid/electric craze will settle down before long. Manufacturers are currently in the thrall of doing it all themselves for visibility purposes - as long as it is cheap - but what they actually do is drive up costs and then gently caress off when the board decides the exercise is done, leaving the series a shambles.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 21:24
|
|
|
Sulman posted:The hybrid/electric craze will settle down before long. Hybrids and electrics aren’t going away, they’re going to be necessary for street cars and for racing, and I doubt anybody is going to go down the “hydrogen ICE” route just to make loud vroom-vroom noises. Formula E as a real thing is probably shorter lived. VAG brands led the gold rush into Formula E as a way to help pay penance (cheaply) for Dieselgate. They couldn’t spend probably $200 mil a program on Audi diesels at Le Mans and VW rally cars at that time. (Porsche got bored, as is their wont). Comparatively Formula E is probably a quarter of that cost, if that, including advertising.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 22:58
|
|
|
harperdc posted:Hybrids and electrics aren’t going away, they’re going to be necessary for street cars and for racing, and I doubt anybody is going to go down the “hydrogen ICE” route just to make loud vroom-vroom noises. I don't mean that EV/Hybrid is going away, but their application is limited, and there's still loads of life left in the ICE; motor racing will at some point get over its fixation of trying to shoehorn it in everywhere. I really like Formula E, especially the V2 car, but there's not too many places they can go; there's no real energy density breakthrough with battery tech - Li-Ion is still the best now - so the only way those cars are going to go further or faster is shedding component weight and/or stuffing more cells in there, which is what they did with the V2. It's still a 900kg heffer, though. The other side of hybrid technology is limited application in Indycar; namely any Super Speedway - including the Crown Jewel - would not be able to exploit it as they're trimmed for flat-out running; energy recovery would be so inefficient it would be pointless. Any other track (short ovals included) sure; but then you've got a big marketing problem, right?
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 23:26
|
|
|
its almost like oval racing only has use as a marketing exercise
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
Proud Christian Mom posted:its almost like racing only has use as a marketing exercise
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 23:48
|
|
|
F1 power units are ludicrously expensive because they are a dumb poo poo formula and the leading team is willing to burn effectively infinite cash on marginal gains. They are in no way indicative of the wider feasibility of hybrid powertrains in motorsport, which are virtually guaranteed to come to IndyCar and every other major racing series eventually.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 23:53
|
|
|
Sulman posted:I don't mean that EV/Hybrid is going away, but their application is limited, and there's still loads of life left in the ICE; motor racing will at some point get over its fixation of trying to shoehorn it in everywhere. It’s not motor racing’s obsession, it’s OEMs selling hybrids and wanting the racing cars they put in advertisements (or are writing off to shareholders...) to reflect that fact. Who do you think decides the rule sets? Formula E is a bit handicapped because it’s like talking about development in IndyCar. Spec chassis, spec tires, spec aero, spec-ish powertrain...with caps on the development to make sure costs don’t spiral. It can be cheap or it can be an engineering playground, but it can’t be both at this time. Still think it’s sports car racing and specifically ACO/Le Mans/WEC that’ll do hybrid/hydrogen first and best. That’s where they can play with more than any single-seater series can.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2019 23:57
|
|
|
I can see a simple regenerative braking hybrid setup for indy down the line. Maybe not the next engine formula, but the one after.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 00:01
|
|
|
harperdc posted:Still think it’s sports car racing and specifically ACO/Le Mans/WEC that’ll do hybrid/hydrogen first and best. That’s where they can play with more than any single-seater series can. Yes, sportscars and prototypes has been where it's made the most sense, and they have been doing it there. In fact I've seen the argument made that a lot of the things afflicting F1, most specifically the tyre conservation (vs. merely managing them) are better off in Sportscars where fuel and tyre conservation have always been a much bigger deal. The path of the Hybrid into F1 was a little messy; really it was led by the FIA who wanted to get out of the 2.4 V8 dead end they had walked into, and hoped more manufacturers would be drawn to the PU change in much the way you said. The reality is we're lucky to have the four we do; even floating the idea of getting rid of the tricky MGU-H didn't tempt anyone, and the existing guys have insisted it stay because they've already thrown a fortune at it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 00:18
|
|
|
The only way I could see hybrid being more than a gimmick at Indy is regen off of the turbo to charge a very mild hybrid to be used to supplement the motor (bonus: it's a starter!) or to be used for a push to pass boost. Braking happens so infrequently at Indy that it'd be a once per stint push to pass gimmick
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 00:19
|
|
|
MazeOfTzeentch posted:The only way I could see hybrid being more than a gimmick at Indy is regen off of the turbo to charge a very mild hybrid to be used to supplement the motor (bonus: it's a starter!) or to be used for a push to pass boost. Braking happens so infrequently at Indy that it'd be a once per stint push to pass gimmick Yeah, that would seem like a good fit for IndyCar. As Sulman said, though, F1's MGU-H has proved pretty tricky and expensive for even the big spenders there, so it might be some time before the tech becomes practical for IndyCar.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 00:36
|
|
|
Porsche seemed to make it work pretty well in WEC, They had twin turbines though. One turbine fed the battery, one provided boost.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 00:47
|
|
|
Yeah, no, this is stupid. F1 is stupid too, largely because as someone else mentioned, Ferrari and Mercedes are willing to burn ludicrous money in F1 chasing diminishing returns (and a lot of that money is going into ICE development anyway). That they're willing to burn something along the lines of 5-6x an indy budget on engine development and still make money really underlines how strong F1 is for manufacturers right now. Porsche and Audi both spent about a third of an F1 budget (still waaaaaaaay more than Indy or IMSA, sure) on developing hybrid drive technologies in LMP1 and Toyota spends like 100mil on their LMP1Hy program, which is about a fifth of what F1 spends. This is closer to a more reasonable take on hybrids than F1 which was, is and always will be loving ludicrous. Hybrid and electric drivetrains are only going to make more and more sense for manufacturer teams as more and more countries push more and more draconian emissions laws. If you're one of those weird companies like Cosworth, Illmor or Riccardo then welp. MazeOfTzeentch posted:The only way I could see hybrid being more than a gimmick at Indy is regen off of the turbo to charge a very mild hybrid to be used to supplement the motor (bonus: it's a starter!) or to be used for a push to pass boost. Braking happens so infrequently at Indy that it'd be a once per stint push to pass gimmick Porsche functionally invented the MGU-H/AER which is that. It doesn't have to use the turbo (it's actually a design that harkens back to the 40s where a generation of piston driven planes would have used exhaust gasses to push a turbine for reasons but then jets came around and were like "gently caress that noise!"), but in using the turbo it also functions as an electrical anti-lag system. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Apr 30, 2019 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 00:49
|
|
|
Looks like Borg Warner already has (PDF) a commercially available "eTurbo" that can both generate electricity and reduce turbo lag, like the MGU-H:quote:A turbocharger with a (single-shaft) motor attached, can serve as either a motor or a generator. I don't know enough to be able to tell how this differs from the MGU-H, but if they could add something like that to the engine spec, that would seem like an easy win.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 01:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:34 |
|
|
I've long been dismissing hybrids for Indycar with "hybrids don't work on ovals," but the MGU-H idea actually makes some sense. There's a lot of energy going out the wastegate once the boost limit is reached. Someone mentioned using it to run a mild hybrid for push-to-pass, but it might not need to be particularly mild.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2019 05:45
|
|
