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Plom Bar posted:What confuses me is that many of the people who had posted about being laid off have posted about this announcement, indicating that they have been and are presently working on the game, including James Roach and a number of artists.
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May 11, 2019 19:07
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Pretty much. God knows Hussie doesn't know how to run a videogame company because, hey, experience does actually matter. Many of the artists (whom I deeply respect) had no previous experience other than Homestuck. I would imagine that's why they originally tried to get established devs to work on it, way back when. Then those guys stole a bunch of money, so I could see why they went so far in the other direction and formed their own studio.
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May 12, 2019 02:43
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Hiveswap's development process sounds like what you get when you make a game on a shoestring budget with volunteer labour working part time, yes.
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May 13, 2019 12:03
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Okay, so, I'm way late to the party on this one, but my real life has finally calmed down enough that I was able to sit down and read through the epilogues instead of just skimming bits and pieces and reading other people's summaries. In doing so, I've come up with a few theories and hot takes that I'm surprised I haven't seen elsewhere: 1.) Dirk and Calliope are both bad, Calliope is just better at being more subtle about it. Literally every awful controling thing Dirk does she also does, she's just less of an rear end in a top hat fuckboy so it's harder to pick up on unless you're really paying attention. Dollars to donuts that's why she let's him go, even though by her own admission she had several opportunities to stop him. She wants someone around to be the bad guy so she can look like the good guy. 2.) I just want to take a moment to force everyone to acknowledge this truly awful thing Dirk said in Meat 41: "I mean, a legit suicide, not one of those melodramatic faux-suicidal plays for attention, sympathy, or Jake’s dick." Jesus Christ, of course Dirk is the kind of guy who threatens suicide to get sex. Of loving course he is. 3.) Pretty sure Aradia is running her own scam. I have zero proof of this, but the way she talks ("oh! I'm just a lesser being! Tell me all your plans and let me just sort of come along and be by your side! Haha, I'm just so sweet and passive and have no real thoughts or motivations of my own!") Gave me some serious 'this is how someone acts when they're luring you into a false sense of security' vibes. I have no idea what she wants or what her endgame is, but I think Calliope has made a mistake in underestimating her. 4.) In the inevitable part 3 (the Pumpkin path) Jasperosesprite^2 is going to come back and usurp Dirk as the true wizard master of the story. Remember when Rose was searching for a purple necklace? Remember how sprites are summoned by necklaces? Probably not, but it's a thing. She's coming back, and she's kicking his rear end. Serves Dirk loving right for infantalizing and emotionally manipulating his adult daughter into being his loving maid because he was too scared to go on an intergalactic roadtrip alone.
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May 19, 2019 15:02
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:1.) Dirk and Calliope are both bad, Calliope is just better at being more subtle about it. Literally every awful controling thing Dirk does she also does, she's just less of an rear end in a top hat fuckboy so it's harder to pick up on unless you're really paying attention. Dollars to donuts that's why she let's him go, even though by her own admission she had several opportunities to stop him. She wants someone around to be the bad guy so she can look like the good guy.
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May 19, 2019 15:09
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calliope has always warped the narrative a bit, see everyone fawning over her (because she is shelby)
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May 19, 2019 15:12
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Elephant Parade posted:What, really? I remember Calliope doing a few things (loving with sounds, having Jane treat the juju with care) to piss Dirk off, but nothing on his level. Do you have examples? 1.) Calliope is literally using Jade as a puppet. 2.) When their other self sees them they react by running from the room screaming, the narrative never allows us to learn why they're so afraid of themselves. 3.) Dirk is a piece of poo poo, but he's not wrong about the things Calliope is doing. They have trapped everyone in a black hole and they are controlling the narrative. Controlling people against their will to annoy Dirk is still controlling people, it's just that because it's done for "the greater good" people are willing to overlook how hosed up it is. But the only reason there's a need for a greater good in the first place is because she willfully allows that evil to exist in the first place. Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention: Vriska is 100% going to do something that breaks open that blackhole. Notice how many times the word luck is used on this page: https://www.homestuck.com/epilogues/candy/40 Vriska's whole thing is stealing luck and breaking things, it'll be fun to see that play out while Calliope is off on a wild prince chase. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 17:04 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 16:53
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:4.) In the inevitable part 3 (the Pumpkin path) Jasperosesprite^2 is going to come back and usurp Dirk as the true wizard master of the story. Remember when Rose was searching for a purple necklace? Remember how sprites are summoned by necklaces? Probably not, but it's a thing. She's coming back, and she's kicking his rear end. Serves Dirk loving right for infantalizing and emotionally manipulating his adult daughter into being his loving maid because he was too scared to go on an intergalactic roadtrip alone. Davepeta might also show back up, since we didn't see a body. Okay that's a big stretch.
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May 19, 2019 17:15
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:1.) Calliope is literally using Jade as a puppet. vriska or... aranea? Aranea's whole plan was to break something to the extent it's unsalvageable then heal it back to completion.
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May 19, 2019 17:28
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:1.) Calliope is literally using Jade as a puppet. 2.) I guess? 3.) She's not controlling the narrative, just guiding it a bit by acting as Jade. And Dirk, the only evil she ever used her narrative control to act against, isn't a force she "willfully allowed" to exist. She did everything short of violate people's agency to stop him. Calliope isn't a saint or anything, but she isn't remotely comparable to Dirk.
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May 19, 2019 17:33
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Clawtopsy posted:vriska or... Aranea is the one behind all of this, I've made my thoughts on that matter very clear (Her 88 is set, her trap is sprung, all hail the Azure one). However, in order for the break to happen her instrument Vriska shall be used to carry out her will. MonsieurChoc posted:Davepeta might also show back up, since we didn't see a body. I actually have a theory about that: Tavros Portal. See, Jade wasn't the only person who had merged with a first guardian, and all that light from the green sun has to go somewhere. That burnt feather Calliope found was from when Devepta flew into the sun and out the chest of a certain cat/troll/sprite (who is undoubtedly under the care of a certain friendly spider lady).
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May 19, 2019 18:09
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I actually have a theory about that: Tavros Portal. See, Jade wasn't the only person who had merged with a first guardian, and all that light from the green sun has to go somewhere. That burnt feather Calliope found was from when Devepta flew into the sun and like a loving piece of garbage. ;_;
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May 19, 2019 18:12
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Yeah, I agree that Calliope isn't quite as clean-handed as she believes herself to be, but I don't think she's a secret villain either. She's preserving the entire Candy timeline purely out of her duty to protect the innocent, and while her restraint in exercising narrative power to fight Dirk is selective and tactical, it's also the right impulse to try and limit her direct interference. Possessing Jade is heavy-handed, but it's also her only option to contest Dirk's control, and borrowing Jade temporarily as a tether to their universe is downright subtle compared to Dirk just rewriting peoples' thoughts directly. She seems to approach the problem of authorship as a sort of benevolent dictator (pun intended), and some slip-ups, presumptions, even some of Dirk's critiques do suggest she's flawed. I don't think she's supposed to be evil or unsympathetic, though, just that she may not be right in the end and someone else will have to act narratively to wrap the story up. Rose is a good bet.
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May 19, 2019 18:15
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give john the narrative power because his only narrative command would probably be that he doesn't understand what hes doing and everyone should just be themselves
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May 19, 2019 18:23
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Elephant Parade posted:She's not controlling the narrative, just guiding it a bit by acting as Jade. And Dirk, the only evil she ever used her narrative control to act against, isn't a force she "willfully allowed" to exist. She did everything short of violate people's agency to stop him. Think about what you're saying here: they claims they're unwilling to violate people's agency, yet they're perfectly willing to violate Jade's agency totally and indefinitely. They say they need to do that for the greater good, but if it's okay to violate someone's agency to eliminate a threat then why not violate the characters agency once so that the threat can be destroyed before it even becomes a threat? Is guiding the narrative really that much different than controlling it? You're still making it go where you want it to go. There's a distinct disconnect between the things Calliope claims to be willing to do and want to do and what they actually do. The number one thing I thought of while reading Calliope's narrative parts was Lolita. It was a piece of fiction written by someone with an agenda who's trying to convince that agenda is perfectly rational and reasonable by being charming and presenting themselves as sympathetic even as they do terrible things. Also, much like Lolita I strongly suspect that the hidden agenda here is "I'm horny". Remember the cherub lore? Remember how green blooded cherubs are compelled chase destructive assholes through space so that they can hunt them down and mate with them? Think about that, seems pretty relevant right now.
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May 19, 2019 19:36
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:1.) Dirk and Calliope are both bad, Calliope is just better at being more subtle about it. Literally every awful controling thing Dirk does she also does, she's just less of an rear end in a top hat fuckboy so it's harder to pick up on unless you're really paying attention. Dollars to donuts that's why she let's him go, even though by her own admission she had several opportunities to stop him. She wants someone around to be the bad guy so she can look like the good guy. I do believe Calliope's intentions are less than noble. But moreover, I think anyone whom achieves Ultimate Selfhood will succumb to twisting reality into their own vision of what's right, which is usually wrong It's like gaining the ability to time travel. You could keep going back in time and fixing the things that you think are broken when the rest of us whom don't know what's going on are forced onto the linear result of our meddling; what we thought was for the greater good. Or maybe you do it for personal gain at the expense of others. It doesn't matter, nobody can stop you Dirk is self-aware enough that he knows he's wrong about some things. He's acutely aware that you have to be a balanced person to fulfill the roll of Ultimate Self in any selfless way, which is why he thinks Dave would own it better Unfortunately despite his conviction, he can't fix himself, so he revels in the schadenfreude of having absolute control over everyone, especially the ones whom wronged his imperfect self Alt-Calliope is as susceptible to evil acts of Ultimate Selfhood. Even ignoring that she's alien, her upbringing was in even more solitude than Dirk's. Someone in the thread theorized that she might've channeled Calliope into releasing Gamzee from the fridge. If this is her nature, is she not as flawed or dangerous as Dirk?
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May 19, 2019 20:43
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Dirk is framing himself as the villain, which means also that he's framing Calliope as a benevolent force. In the process, he is actually himself being extremely vile and petty. Calliope, too, is affected by subjectivity, most obviously in any scene where the Trickster Lollipop is present. They're both using the entire story and all the characters in it as pawns in their struggle for influence - but what are they fighting for? What's, ultimately, at stake? That's the mystery still.
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May 19, 2019 20:56
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Okay I finally read the epilogues and I gotta ask what Dirk has against John. Like the narrative (as written by Dirk) goes out of its way to insist that John is unremarkable in how unremarkable he is, but considering exactly how long and drawn out and mean the extended death scene in Meat is (with the narrative itself just shittalking John the entire way) there's gotta be like, some kinda vendetta there? Is this a really obvious thing that I just somehow missed the subtext for because Homestuck is full of those.
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May 19, 2019 23:56
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1) John is incredibly passive, which is pretty much the antithesis of Dirk. If Dirk had retcon powers, he would fix everything right drat now. 2) John looks a lot like Jake.
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May 20, 2019 00:05
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Orange and blue are contrasting colors From that I suppose you could extrapolate that Dirk and John are in many ways contrasting characters other than that I've got nothing
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May 20, 2019 00:07
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John is actually capable of happiness and doesn't need "fixing."
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May 20, 2019 00:09
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John is very genuine, very open, guilelessis, kind, warm, not self-loathing - all things Dirk isn't and can't bring himself to be. Dirk tends to treat people like that with contempt, latching onto their flaws and most vulnerable points.
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May 20, 2019 01:23
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John's retcon powers are a threat to Dirk's complete control of the narrative, hence he needs him gone.
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May 20, 2019 02:24
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Beyond anything personal he also needs John's body for something, hence him making sure Terezi brought it with her. If/when the story continues, we're probably going to get Johnsprite.
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May 20, 2019 09:27
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The Lobotomy Kid posted:Beyond anything personal he also needs John's body for something, hence him making sure Terezi brought it with her. If/when the story continues, we're probably going to get Johnsprite.
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May 20, 2019 15:51
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My fantroll: Slavoj Zizzek
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May 20, 2019 18:29
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John's absolutely capable of self-loathing and being closed off or weird about his feelings, in no small part brought on by the burden of protagonism that he doesn't understand and that has traumatized him so badly that he lives a permanently unsettled life in a timeline he knows on some level is "not canon". He's not even wrong to feel unsettled in such a timeline, because if it weren't for the intervention of Dead Calliope in preserving that timeline (an action he couldn't know is going on) he and everyone he knows would die horribly. He and Dirk have some key commonalities, chief among them being their sensitivity to Plot. The difference is, whereas Dirk reaches this awareness through relentless and exacting analysis of their existence, John was the Plot's chosen, predestined hero from the start and he can't help but absorb some awareness of his situation no matter how much he tries to ignore it. As Arsenic Lupin points out, Dirk resents John for being a perfect stooge despite having all the narrative power and preeminence he could ever need. John practically defines what is canon simply by his presence, something Dirk has to carefully manage. Dirk's suicide in Candy (and any other offshoot timelines) is likely something he blames on John, for being so unwitting and careless with such immense power. If Dirk had been the hero of Homestuck from the outset he'd have been the uncontested ruler of narrative reality by Act 5, pretty much what he's trying to pull off now. Clawtopsy may also be right that the ultimate solution might be shuffling ultimate narrative authority to John. John and Rose have an interesting dynamic, as we saw in the intro, where Rose can grasp and understand Forbidden Knowledge, then safely launder it into instructions for John. If being the narrator has some kind of "absolute power corrupts absolutely" element, Rose pulling a long con to put that power not in her own hands (where she would be tempted to abuse it), but John's (who she can trust to not even realize the ramifications of what he's doing) would be a fun twist. It's a weird sort of manipulation that also respects John's agency, like the original Meat/Candy decision.
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May 21, 2019 23:30
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What I haven't seen discussed much is Candy's postscript, and Dirk's motivation in general: Dirk is apparently taking himself and Rosebot/Terezi/Dead John to find a new planet suitable for life, so that one day life can evolve there that will play the "ultimate session of Sburb". What does Dirk have to gain from this session that required so much effort to stay in control of narrative reality, and so much manipulation of his friends? What's his endgame? Does he actually even have a goal, or does he just mean to continue Homestuck's "narrative" into perpetuity, so he and his friends don't devolve into non-canon status like in Candy?
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May 22, 2019 05:24
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Dirk imo kinda shows his hand to the reader when he's using the narration to have John or someone else speculate about the separate nature of selves, and when think something like "Why can't we all be gods, why can't we be one God..." So I always figured his goal is having everyone apotheosize into Ultimate Selves and then do some kind of Divine Instrumentality Project into a single ultimate deity.
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May 22, 2019 12:17
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remember when homestuck was about combining a lifesize cutout of sean bean as boromir with a toothbrush then riding on a playground carousel minigame
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May 22, 2019 14:45
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King Cohort posted:What I haven't seen discussed much is Candy's postscript, and Dirk's motivation in general: Dirk is apparently taking himself and Rosebot/Terezi/Dead John to find a new planet suitable for life, so that one day life can evolve there that will play the "ultimate session of Sburb". On a meta level: Dirk wants to continue the plot. On a personal level: Dirk is a profoundly lonely self-loathing narcissist who desperately wants to be loved. However, he's too afraid to let anyone truly understand him and real love cannot exist without true understanding so instead he tries to fill the void inside of himself by A) making people hate him because negative attention is still attention and B) setting himself up as a puppet master in their lives as a way to be forcibly close to them. He did this with Jake, Jane, Dave, literally every person who's ever been a part of his life, and now he's trying to do it to an entire planet full of people. He wants to be a God, wants to be worshiped and feared, so he can feel full. It won't work though, it never works. When he turns people into his puppets he turns them into a part of him, and he hates himself so they become something he cannot love and that can't love him. Such is his nature.
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May 22, 2019 15:14
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Clawtopsy posted:remember when homestuck was about combining a lifesize cutout of sean bean as boromir with a toothbrush then riding on a playground carousel minigame Yeah, that was great. I miss that, I think everyone misses that. Including the characters in the story itself.
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May 22, 2019 15:16
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All of the kids except Dave were happier as children. The Alternian trolls, welp.
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May 22, 2019 16:03
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Finally got around to playing Friendsim. It was alright. Some characters are great but most feel like filler. Some really funny dialogue, good music and some of the bad ends were hilariously over the top in a way reminiscent of Jailbreak. Edit: you do get more info in just how horrifyingly dystopian Alternia is.
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May 22, 2019 17:01
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Whoa gently caress me, I just found out about the Epilogues existing after years and years of not giving a poo poo about Homestuck, aaand... How is this so good? Somehow it's the perfect way to make an epilogue to something way too long after the story ended - by recognising its own ridiculousness and feeling of unreality. But it also manages to capture everything that made the original run great, and be a completely different, much more disturbing story full of interesting symbolism. Sort of hilarious that while it's a really great piece of fiction, the target audience is minuscule. It's mostly just Homestuck fans from the past that will be into this sort of weird twist of the thing they liked. I don't think teens these days read this poo poo, and no way I'll ever actually recommend it to anyone my age.
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May 22, 2019 22:13
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JOHN SKELETON posted:Sort of hilarious that while it's a really great piece of fiction, the target audience is minuscule. It's mostly just Homestuck fans from the past that will be into this sort of weird twist of the thing they liked. I don't think teens these days read this poo poo, and no way I'll ever actually recommend it to anyone my age. There are a lot of Homestuck fans from the past. It's not intented to bring in new readers, it's to bring back old readers who either forgot or stopped caring. There are a ton of those. The only thing miniscule about that target audience is the people who never stopped thinking or posting about Homestuck.
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May 23, 2019 01:01
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JOHN SKELETON posted:Sort of hilarious that while it's a really great piece of fiction, the target audience is minuscule. It's mostly just Homestuck fans from the past that will be into this sort of weird twist of the thing they liked. I don't think teens these days read this poo poo, and no way I'll ever actually recommend it to anyone my age.
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May 23, 2019 03:47
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Surprisingly, no. Archive readers (teens very much included) are showing up all the time. I see them wishing they'd been there for the full madness of peak Homestuck updates. when I hear someone talking about "reading the classics, like Homestuck" in 50 years I'm going to kill myself if I'm not already dead
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May 23, 2019 04:28
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:when I hear someone talking about "reading the classics, like Homestuck" in 50 years I'm going to kill myself if I'm not already dead 
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May 23, 2019 05:27
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:when I hear someone talking about "reading the classics, like Homestuck" in 50 years I'm going to kill myself if I'm not already dead 50 years from now Homestuck will still be on going and we'll be on epilogue part 8.
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May 23, 2019 05:34
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