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I'm hoping for the finale to be Star vs the Magical High Commission as they try desperately to stop Star using the whispering spell to preserve their own lives. A complete inverse of the Toffee fight from season 2, a bunch of people only trying to survive, fighting a force of nature that just wants them and all magic gone forever. Make the mirror image complete, with Star shrugging off Heckapoo, Omnitraxis and Rhombulous with the same cold indifference (although in this case because she's too mad to even think of talking to them now) that Toffee showed to Ludo and Moon. She's not even talking to them, it's just 10 minutes of Star whispering to herself as the magic dimension collapses into nothing. Also I like the mirror of the Tapestries as well - both Moon and Solaria's portraits portray them fighting monsters although for different reasons, Solaria due to madness and racism and Moon due to revenge for her mother, and Star and Eclipsa's portraits, their daughters, show scenes of serenity. The former showing what they are, and the latter showing what they wish to be. However, Eclipsa's portraits betrays the inherent selfishness that she started out with before she tried to win Mewni over, in that it's just her and Globgor and gently caress everyone else however, Star's portrait includes a similar scene of serenity, but it's everyone standing behind her, because she is wishing for this for the whole Kingdom. I like that contrast.
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May 12, 2019 20:23
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Moon's heel turn felt really lazy and contrived, other than that I like the conflict they're setting up. However, I expect some kind of subversion from what the tapestry shows because Star's, like, entire deal is screwing with the established rules. Also, while cutting Macro and Star off in different worlds would be ballsy, murdering countless sapient beings would be kinda... not chill. Sure, the High Commission are jerks but Glossaryck is harmless and just kinda weird. There's also all the spells we've seen which have discrete lives themselves. You know, like Richard and [intermission to check the wiki again] Billy. Killing them all would be pretty loving dark for this show. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 03:49 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 03:39
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Skippy McPants posted:Moon's heel turn felt really lazy and contrived, other than that I like the conflict they're setting up. It did seem kind of arbitrary that she made the mistake of letting them swear an oath to Solaria instead of her, and she didn't know that wouldn't make the rescinding spell fail to work, but other than that it was incredible and I thought Moon's heel turn, hinging on the plan of taking away their powers, was plausible for her character. I thought that the first episode of the newest four did a good job making me sure that the knight had to be Mina. When Eclipsa used the spell with no name, I was sure that the climax of Season 4 was over and the rest was going to be the aftermath of its consequences and wrapping things up, but nope, it was the first in a FULL ARMY led by Mina. I've been assuming that killing the magic will just take away people's magic powers instead of killing them, but now that you point it out, I'm interested to see how that would mesh with the idea of the spells also being sentient. During Glossarick's future vision, initially I thought that the people in it were zombies like the dark unicorns in the Magic Dimension. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 04:01 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 03:52
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I took some time to think about it. I think I kinda liked it and it makes a lot of sense for Star to plan what she's planing, but it just wasn't what I was expecting. I think the problem was I kept expecting the other shoe to drop with Eclipsa and I didn't see any other possibility for the final villain. Either way I hope they stick the landing. edit: The only thing that bugged me was Moon attempting a coup. That seemed out of character for her. No.1 Special fucked around with this message at 04:02 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 03:54
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If you're talking about Moon, the issue is it's a pay-off with no setup. She says she did it because Eclipsa messed her up with a spell and trapped her in the magic dimension, but that justification comes out of nowhere. We've seen enough of her internal life in the past episodes to know that she was done with being queen and ruling people. All she wanted was to chill, and they don't show any change in that state until her reveal. We do get flashbacks that show her actions leading up to the turn, but not her motivation. That's a problem. It doesn't ruin the show or anything, but it was a contrived twist, and I'm not even sure it was even necessary to get Star to a place where she's all "screw magic!" Edit: oh, you already made an edit that agrees with me. Oh well!
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May 13, 2019 04:05
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Hey, anyone know if the last episode is 40 minutes long? They've been releasing two a week, but next week it's just the finale and 22 minutes seems a little cramped to sew up all the poo poo they've got going on.
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May 13, 2019 04:15
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It just now occurred to me that both this and Game of Thrones are having their series finale on the same day. Funny how that happened. I'm also genuinely curious as to which one is going to have the more satisfying conclusion.
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May 13, 2019 04:51
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Macrame_God posted:It just now occurred to me that both this and Game of Thrones are having their series finale on the same day. Funny how that happened. Given the reactions I've been seeing on twitter, I think the smart money is on Star vs
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May 13, 2019 04:54
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Yeah, I think Star could lose her mind, murder the rest of the cast, and people would still take it better than what's happening to GoT.
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May 13, 2019 05:03
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ManlyGrunting posted:Given the reactions I've been seeing on twitter, I think the smart money is on Star vs At the risk of derailing this thread, I don't quite understand the anger over where GoT is currently going. I mean, we've all been watching the same show for a few years now, right? How did you honestly expect it to end? Sure, it got pretty absurd near the end with how everyone seems to be teleporting around the place, but as far as how the plot and character arcs have developed I'm not all too shocked except for how they handled Jamie at the end. That kind of let me down a little. Also, pouring one out for Star. Your show had a good run. Here's to hoping The Owl House turns out great (whenever we get around to seeing any actual footage of it).
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May 13, 2019 05:04
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Skippy McPants posted:Hey, anyone know if the last episode is 40 minutes long? They've been releasing two a week, but next week it's just the finale and 22 minutes seems a little cramped to sew up all the poo poo they've got going on. It's just 22 minutes so yeah, it's gonna be pretty cramped. As to Moon, I don't think the heel turn came quite out of nowhere-even though she spent most of Down by the River and Ghost of Butterfly Castle loudly declaring she was done with being Queen, she still ended up... well, forming a settlement and telling people what to do. And to be fair, it's easy to see how she could think her actions to take back control of Mewni were justified—to consider her perspective, she's surrounded by people who have been forced from their homes by Eclipsa, the old castle and surrounding town are a wreck that's been picked over by scavengers, she knows Eclipsa has gotten into at least one fight with the High Commission over Globgor, and of course there's everything from the previous season (Such as the corruption that stained Moon's hands for years, and Eclipsa's role in inadvertently allowing Heinous/Meteora to nearly destroy the kingdom entirely). And honestly, it's still pretty true to her character. Since the beginning, Moon has been an extremely controlling figure, both to Star and to the Kingdom as a whole. There's been multiple situations where she's tried to control a situation only for it to backfire horribly (Taking on Toffee by herself as a child, hiding Ludo's theft of the Spellbook from the kingdom and the rest of the High Commission, taking Star and hiding while Ludo/Toffee took control of the Kingdom, directly confronting and fighting Meteora), and this is just the latest and greatest example of her biggest flaw—an inability to trust others, especially Star, to make the right decisions. So, she hosed up, but it was a very in-character fuckup imo. Anyway, finale promo: https://twitter.com/DisneyXD/status/1127589314047639552 Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 05:27 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 05:23
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It is in character, but there's a critical plot beat missing where she realizes she's deluding herself by trying to stay out of everything and decides to wade back in. This is an issue because the flashbacks imply she flipped a while ago, but the glimpses of her inner life from earlier episodes showed a sincere attempt to leave that all behind. We jump straight from frustrated retiree to deep state conspiracy mom. Somewhere between those two points, she made a major life-altering choice and we don't see that happen even in the flashbacks so it feels really clunky.
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May 13, 2019 05:36
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Skippy McPants posted:It is in character, but there's a critical plot beat missing where she realizes she's deluding herself by trying to stay out of everything and decides to wade back in. This is an issue because the flashbacks imply she flipped a while ago, but the glimpses of her inner life from earlier episodes showed a sincere attempt to leave that all behind. We jump straight from frustrated retiree to deep state conspiracy mom. Somewhere between those two points, she made a major life-altering choice and we don't see that happen even in the flashbacks so it feels really clunky. I do feel you there. I'd like to think that might come up in the finale if/when Moon tries to reconcile with Star, but considering how much they have to resolve, it's hard to say.
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May 13, 2019 05:46
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I still reckon Ludo's gonna show up at some unexpected moment again.
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May 13, 2019 15:03
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I mean, Eclipsa didn't seem like she much wanted to be queen again anyways. All she really wanted was her child and her husband. If Moon just asked Eclipsa to step down, she might just have done it. She wasn't really a good queen, she wasn't good at managing the kingdom. She had one good policy, but no real plan towards implementing it. She never did anything malicious aside from developing the magic that has cursed the magic dimension. If anyone wanted to have influence on her regime they were pretty free to, there's no clear reason for any of this. There's also now the question of what the hell actually happened in the Ghost of Butterfly Castle episode, since it appears to have been directly contradicted. PS, the main source of Mewny's problems is probably more that it sucks to be a medieval peasant before the development of the concept of civil rights.
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May 14, 2019 00:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:I mean, Eclipsa didn't seem like she much wanted to be queen again anyways. All she really wanted was her child and her husband. If Moon just asked Eclipsa to step down, she might just have done it. That's what makes all of this so loving contrived and stupid for cheap drama. Like, it all contradicts ALL of Moon's character development these past two seasons.
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May 14, 2019 01:54
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Magic isn't good or evil and I don't think Star is going to destroy it. It's power. The reason it's caused so many problems is that the only people allowed to use it are the ones who don't know how to use it responsibly. Moon and Eclipsa were not up to the task, nor were most of the other queens or the MHC. They lived privileged lives, isolated from their subjects, and because of that they didn't see the problems with the kingdom. They could only ever see magic as something to use for themselves. Star is different, because she was sent to live with ordinary people on earth immediately after she inherited the wand. She doesn't realize it (especially because of her many failings), but she's the only one who can wield magic for good. That's why she's (supposedly) a magical prodigy. She's on the cusp of realizing this, but the responsibility scares her. Destroying magic means she's forever free of the responsibilities placed upon her. But magic is the reason she and Marco are happy, and it can be that for others, too. e: Moon's actions make more sense when you consider she sees magic this way. Star's messed up and learned her lesson many times, but Moon never learned the consequences of misusing magic/power. She only begins to realize when she befriends some of the common folk and then sees her actions actually affecting people she knows. e2: Still pretty stupid though, I mean drat. She knows what that magic did to Mina. Tetracube fucked around with this message at 07:28 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 07:06
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Especially given on her tapestry, her hand is still glowing yellow, implying that in that future she can still use it.
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May 14, 2019 07:09
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BioEnchanted posted:Especially given on her tapestry, her hand is still glowing yellow, implying that in that future she can still use it. Yeah, I was trying to figure out if I missed something there. She's very clearly using magic in the tapestry.
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May 14, 2019 07:18
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Star's on-the-spot interpretation of the tapestry was that it showed her in the process of destroying magic. That's pretty waffly for a bunch of reasons, not least is that her current plan is to use the Whispering spell to nuke the magic dimension and the tapestry doesn't show anything like that. edit: also, I know he was only in one other episode before this arc, but I was pretty shocked when the show straight up exploded Quirky, the four-eyed biker dude. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 07:29 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 07:25
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basically, every other magic user has been bourgeoisie but star is sympathetic to the struggle of the proles
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May 14, 2019 07:43
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Not even bourgeoisie, straight up hereditary aristocracy! They couldn't get any more haute unless they restricted magic to pharaohs and god-kings. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 07:49
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Star probably more has no idea what it could be; right now to her the choices are destroy all magic and ???. And exactly right that magic in Mewni has basically existed as a literal toy for royalty that no wonder it's caused so many problems. Probably ought to come up that there's a lot of multiverse inhabitants that likely can't exist without magic, the Pony Heads come to mind.
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May 14, 2019 08:53
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Moon's betrayal makes perfect sense and it has been built up over the season. As was pointed out even though she's been saying she was done with ruling shes been basically forming her own rival kingdom out of people who hate Eclipsa the whole season. That she'd already mostly constructed a wall around the yurt settlement when we see her was a hint she was prepared for this whole thing. She also really doesn't like or trust Eclipsa and was perfectly fine with letting Mina potentially murder her without warning her ahead of time of the impending coup. The only thing that really changed was that she seems to have decided that her being in charge would make the coup less destructive. I'm pretty happy about the direction, I was getting worried that we were supposed to think the yurt settlement of segregation was a good thing.
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May 14, 2019 17:11
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Glossaryck said he'd die and Star just kinda went on with things. Kinda messed up. Much as my personal inclination is towards democracy and away from aristocracy, the show has really leaned towards the idea that the people of Mewni are mostly ignorant peasants who are helpless without authority, whether that's just because they're uneducated or if they've been trained over generations into helplessness is up for grabs. Either way, just cutting out magic completely doesn't seem like a real solution. Without magic, they'd just jump to about the twelfth century and maybe they can figure out civil rights in about 800 years. Nephthys posted:Moon's betrayal makes perfect sense and it has been built up over the season. But it also requires some episodes to have not happened, like when Moon gave a hard no to Mina with no room for ambiguity, or when Moon kept insisting she was fine with Eclipsa being queen. Whatever happened requires Moon to have made some kind of very extreme change of heart entirely offscreen.
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May 14, 2019 18:04
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To be fair, I think Star has been pretty fed up with Glossarik's bullshit for a while.
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May 14, 2019 18:24
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Xelkelvos posted:To be fair, I think Star has been pretty fed up with Glossarik's bullshit for a while. "They say the greatest tragedy is when a princess kills their magical mentor. I've never understood why that is; frankly, I can see an upside to it!"
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May 14, 2019 18:33
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SlothfulCobra posted:But it also requires some episodes to have not happened, like when Moon gave a hard no to Mina with no room for ambiguity, or when Moon kept insisting she was fine with Eclipsa being queen. Whatever happened requires Moon to have made some kind of very extreme change of heart entirely offscreen. She actually didn't give Mina any kind of no. I just checked the episode. She said yadda-yadda'ing Eclipsa was "a bit extreme" and then avoids the question of overthrowing her when Mina offers it by talking about Mina instead. She ends the episode in a very "gently caress Eclipsa" way by deciding to let Mina take her shot. And she said she was fine with her being Queen while obviously disapproving of her and her actions. Just like she said she didn't want to be in charge of anyone..... while building an entire town. She's kind of been in denial about the whole thing until now. Not to mention she's been insisting that to Star, Eclipsa's biggest supporter. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 20:13 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 20:00
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Since magic in the hands of the queens has led to misfortune, I wouldn't be surprised if the finale has Star somehow spreading the magic to everyone in order to make everyone kind of sort of equal. Regardless, I'm pumped for the ending. I hope it's a happy one, those two crazy kids earned it. Also I'm excited to see Marco get to hold the wand again. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 00:22
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TwoPair posted:Since magic in the hands of the queens has led to misfortune, I wouldn't be surprised if the finale has Star somehow spreading the magic to everyone in order to make everyone kind of sort of equal. I bet Marco is going to start learning magic in the ending. Crazier theory: Marco becomes Queen. He already has a princess persona, there's been a male queen in the past, and we know he has the potential to do magic. Star doesn't want to be Queen but Marco is supposedly leader-like according to Tom and also his star sign. Tetracube fucked around with this message at 01:51 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 01:47
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Tetracube posted:I bet Marco is going to start learning magic in the ending. I was kinda thinking that too, but on one hand while it'd be cool to sort of have a changing of the guard by leaving the kingdom in the hands of a third party like Marco who's neither mewman nor monster, but on the other hand it'd be kind of hosed up to take the unusual concept of a matrilineal monarchy and hand it to a dude, even if you call him Queen
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May 15, 2019 05:15
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TwoPair posted:I was kinda thinking that too, but on one hand while it'd be cool to sort of have a changing of the guard by leaving the kingdom in the hands of a third party like Marco who's neither mewman nor monster, but on the other hand it'd be kind of hosed up to take the unusual concept of a matrilineal monarchy and hand it to a dude, even if you call him Queen Would it be? Monarchy is already an extremely regressive concept, we're just supposed to not think about it. Oh also: Star's chapter says she only rules for 4 days, and it would sneak trans marco (which is totally canon I mean cmon) under the radar, which is the important part
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May 15, 2019 05:26
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I'm pretty sure that, at least in this show's case, we are supposed to be thinking about how oppressive a monarchy is.
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May 15, 2019 05:31
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Tetracube posted:I bet Marco is going to start learning magic in the ending. The finale promo shows Marco with the wand and also Marco using magic to fight one of the magic unicorns. The REAL interesting thing though is that he's not using the wand. He's using a spoon full of pudding. Probably the same pudding Glosseryck sent their way in the last ep.
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May 15, 2019 08:13
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Nephthys posted:She actually didn't give Mina any kind of no. I just checked the episode. She said yadda-yadda'ing Eclipsa was "a bit extreme" and then avoids the question of overthrowing her when Mina offers it by talking about Mina instead. She ends the episode in a very "gently caress Eclipsa" way by deciding to let Mina take her shot. And she said she was fine with her being Queen while obviously disapproving of her and her actions. Just like she said she didn't want to be in charge of anyone..... while building an entire town. She's kind of been in denial about the whole thing until now. I think a lot of that is that Moon is used to being obeyed by Mewmans, and doesn't quite get just how far off the deep end Mina is and that she's not going to be taking hints. (ironically, she's trying to rein in the person who was the primary role model for her daughter that she also finds it impossible to rein in) Moon's a conservative or centrist at best who believes in the status quo above all, Mina and her followers are reactionaries, and accurately to real life she's finding out that reactionaries given power are impossible to control and will not stop when genocide is their explicit, primary goal, and will eagerly cast aside anything in the way of that no matter what oaths they swear or what they profess to believe in.
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May 15, 2019 09:21
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Stayed up late and saw the last episode as soon as it dropped on the Disney website. I'll admit it felt rushed (even though the last four episodes or so could also be considered part of the finale), but I still enjoyed it even though it defied all my theorycrafting. Also, the ending makes sense when you realize Omnitraxus Prime was in charge of space-time and the multiverse. Without the magic and without him, everything collapsed back into a single universe. And now I want a sequel series set in the collapsed universe.
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May 19, 2019 08:54
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Huh, so they went with the genocide ending after all. That kinda sucks! I don't hate it I guess, but I'm super lukewarm. Mina even says flat out that ideas were the problem, not magic, and she's right. The show also totally cheats by never making Star confront a magical creature who wants to live. We only get input from Glossaryck and Hekapoo, and they both seem totally chill with popping into non-existence? Okay... Oh and Moon gets off super light for basically loving everything up, but I guess they only had 23 minutes to tie things off so whatevs. I'm gonna stop thinking about it now because the more I dwell on it the less pleased I'm gonna be with the ending to this kids cartoon, and I don't wanna make things weird. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 13:39 on May 19, 2019 |
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May 19, 2019 13:09
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Skippy McPants posted:Huh, so they went with the genocide ending after all. That kinda sucks! I can see it both ways, if magic is like if anybody on Earth could gain the power to use a nuclear weapon if they studied long enough within a lifetime, with spells as powerful as Solaria's
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May 19, 2019 13:40
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galenanorth posted:I can see it both ways, if magic is like if anybody on Earth could gain the power to use a nuclear weapon if they studied long enough within a lifetime, with spells as powerful as Solaria's Oh, I totally get why it's dangerous but it was never set up as the root of this conflict and destroying it wiped out who knows how many intelligent beings. So it feels not only arbitrary but also really loving dark in a way the show simply didn't engage with.
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May 19, 2019 13:43
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Skippy McPants posted:Oh, I totally get why it's dangerous but it was never set up as the root of this conflict and destroying it wiped out who knows how many intelligent beings. So it feels not only arbitrary but also really loving dark in a way the show simply didn't engage with. It wiped out the Realm of Magic unicorns, Glossaryk, and the MHC. All other creatures, no matter how apparently magical, seemed to be just fine in the ending. I imagine even Father Time is still out there since Glossaryk didn't create him.
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May 19, 2019 13:53
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