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It started in the comics where Dr light is revealed to be a serial rapist and the Justice League kept covering it up by erasing memories. Also when people started thinking Mark Millar and Garth Ennis were good writers.
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May 16, 2019 01:54
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Gaunab posted:It started in the comics where Dr light is revealed to be a serial rapist and the Justice League kept covering it up by erasing memories. Hitman was great and I will fight you over that. Except it is absolutely grimdark seeing as Dogwelder existed in it.
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May 16, 2019 02:38
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Pilchenstein posted:I think Raimi's Spiderman was what opened the floodgates. The Raimi Spider-Man is campy and fun, even if Green Goblin has a scary mask and disintegrates several people.
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May 16, 2019 02:52
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I guess I'd have to determine what "grimdark" is. To me that is things dealing with more mature themes (personal psychology, trauma, the actual effects of violence). As stated earlier, the comics run that Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Neil Gaiman et al experienced in the 80's really paved the way for the idea of more serious comic book movies. Yeah, there was the Dolph Lundgren Punisher film but that's just violence without really looking at his unpleasant past. I still say the 1989 Batman taking from The Dark Knight Returns was big in that it was financially successful in bringing the "grimdark" comic book movies that came out later. Sam Raimi's Darkman was his take on a tragic superhero story, and despite what the initial audience/box office would have you think, Warren Beatty's Dick Tracy was surprisingly close to the source material.
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May 16, 2019 03:19
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This is only my opinion but for Grimdark Id use the original ninja turtles comic as a benchmark. It is stoic nihilism, ultraviolence, and cape comics slamming into each other. If a character ruminates on what the purpose of it all is why continuing to inflict staggering violence on the nameless and faceless while something patently absurd is happening like a bunch of ninjas attacking bipedal turtles its grimdark Barudak has a new favorite as of 03:27 on May 16, 2019 |
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May 16, 2019 03:25
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Grimdark is when someone looks at their hands wondering what they’ve become. Unless they’ve literally transformed into something else. That may not be grimdark.
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May 16, 2019 03:42
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Henchman of Santa posted:The Raimi Spider-Man is campy and fun, even if Green Goblin has a scary mask and disintegrates several people.
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May 16, 2019 04:45
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Gaunab posted:It started in the comics where Dr light is revealed to be a serial rapist and the Justice League kept covering it up by erasing memories. Garth Ennis is a good writer, his Superman is the problably the most anti-grimdark iteration of the character in the last 30 years.
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May 16, 2019 05:45
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Barudak posted:This is only my opinion but for Grimdark Id use the original ninja turtles comic as a benchmark. I'd agree. Those comics were bleak. It's amazing how it was turned into a successful children's cartoon.
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May 16, 2019 06:25
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I mean, the Joker in The Dark Knight feels edgy but they don't show a lot of the violent stuff directly. And then the next movie has Bane, who holds the city hostage with a dressed up cartoon bomb. Being pg-13 makes dark superheroes weird.
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May 16, 2019 06:46
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Mister Nobody posted:Garth Ennis is a good writer, his Superman is the problably the most anti-grimdark iteration of the character in the last 30 years. The Hitman issue where Tommy meets Superman is fantastic.
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May 16, 2019 06:51
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Batman Returns was dark enough to upend the franchise. The secondary villain dies by being forced to kiss a taser.
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May 16, 2019 06:53
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Len posted:Hitman was great and I will fight you over that. Dogwelder exists because Ennis asked a bunch of his comic friends to come up with the dumbest name for a superhero ever. I think it was Steve Dillon who drunkenly suggested "Dogwelder".
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May 16, 2019 11:52
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jojoinnit posted:If it was the same one wouldn’t he have just come in the door or something and handed back the unused vial? They were outside, and when Cap didn't come back, they started looking around and saw an old man nearby looking at a lake. So he was already there, but didn't come back through the device.
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May 16, 2019 12:59
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In a movie with all kinda flying space wizards, the thing I just could not accept was Robert Downey Jr being born in 1970.
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May 16, 2019 13:33
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Davros1 posted:Dogwelder exists because Ennis asked a bunch of his comic friends to come up with the dumbest name for a superhero ever. I think it was Steve Dillon who drunkenly suggested "Dogwelder". Section 8 in general is definitely the entertaining results of a drunken 'come up with the dumbest ideas for superheroes' competition. Like a lot of the stereotypically grimdark comic writers, Ennis actually likes Superman and mostly uses pisstake brutal parody to express his dislike for all the other dumb poo poo comics do. Superman in general seems to be pretty boring most of the time, but in the hands of a good writer and/or director can make for great stories, which tend to go underrated or forgotten because most people want punch mans and are confused and angered by any attempt at nuance.
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May 16, 2019 13:48
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Pilchenstein posted:Grimdark is probably the wrong word but it's definitely in the "being a superhero is a miserable burden" camp. That's basically Spider-man in a nutshell though.
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May 16, 2019 13:48
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Davros1 posted:Dogwelder exists because Ennis asked a bunch of his comic friends to come up with the dumbest name for a superhero ever. I think it was Steve Dillon who drunkenly suggested "Dogwelder". Ennis credited him for it 
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May 16, 2019 14:04
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Lucid Nonsense posted:They were outside, and when Cap didn't come back, they started looking around and saw an old man nearby looking at a lake. So he was already there, but didn't come back through the device. There's a hundred ways he could've come back on his own though, without their device. Maybe he met a Celestial or something, who the gently caress knows.
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May 16, 2019 15:09
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Wait...where were they? Outside of Shield HQ? In a random park? It just occurred to me that their headquarters are a smoking pit and the surrounding landscape looks like Verdun. Were they doing time travel in a public park where old Steve Rogers could just wander in and sit on a bench undetected? WTF? Does no one have a backyard with a fence?
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May 16, 2019 16:07
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Krispy Wafer posted:Wait...where were they? Outside of Shield HQ? In a random park? It just occurred to me that their headquarters are a smoking pit and the surrounding landscape looks like Verdun. Were they doing time travel in a public park where old Steve Rogers could just wander in and sit on a bench undetected? WTF? Does no one have a backyard with a fence? I think it was Tony's place, which was by a lake with some woods wasn't it? Seemed like that's where they were anyway.
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May 16, 2019 16:09
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I believe it is close to the battlefield. You can see a construction site in the background. I definitely got the impression “they are slowly rebuilding, but they just recently started”.
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May 16, 2019 16:18
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Krispy Wafer posted:Wait...where were they? Outside of Shield HQ? In a random park? It just occurred to me that their headquarters are a smoking pit and the surrounding landscape looks like Verdun. Were they doing time travel in a public park where old Steve Rogers could just wander in and sit on a bench undetected? WTF? Does no one have a backyard with a fence? Outside the Avengers HQ building.
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May 16, 2019 16:18
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Endgame: I just wanted to use spoiler tags and be one of the cool kids.
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May 16, 2019 16:45
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Roblo posted:Outside the Avengers HQ building. They're slacking on the security then. Used to be even AntMan couldn't sneak by their defenses. Avengers getting lazy.
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May 16, 2019 17:00
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Krispy Wafer posted:They're slacking on the security then. Used to be even AntMan couldn't sneak by their defenses. well. Yknow. A fair bit of stuff happened. Building got a bit hosed up n' that.
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May 16, 2019 17:06
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Krispy Wafer posted:Wait...where were they? Outside of Shield HQ? In a random park? It just occurred to me that their headquarters are a smoking pit and the surrounding landscape looks like Verdun. Were they doing time travel in a public park where old Steve Rogers could just wander in and sit on a bench undetected? WTF? Does no one have a backyard with a fence? It's not like the amount of time between the battle ending and them taking the stones back actually matters, and presumably they'd have to wait at least as long as it takes Pym to make enough particles for 5-6 jumps anyway. Anyway I was trying to find a screencap of that last bit but my googling is weak, but goddamn all they had to do is be a bit more explicit about the multiverse poo poo to cure any confusion. 'No you can't change the past to fix it, you can't do grandfather paradoxes and any significant change causes a branching timeline with a new future' instead of an explanation I had no issue with but others, including the people that made the movie, do. None of this matters and I don't even like the movie that much ahhhhhhh.
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May 16, 2019 17:16
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Endgame: Why did Ant Man's daughter age like 10 years in the 5 year time skip?
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May 16, 2019 17:23
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Clam Chowdown posted:Endgame: Why did Ant Man's daughter age like 10 years in the 5 year time skip? Well half of everyone was dead, so everyone left gets twice as much time. Basic maths.
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May 16, 2019 17:26
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Clam Chowdown posted:Endgame: Why did Ant Man's daughter age like 10 years in the 5 year time skip? The new actress is 17, the original actress is 11.
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May 16, 2019 17:33
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Clam Chowdown posted:Endgame: Why did Ant Man's daughter age like 10 years in the 5 year time skip? How old do you think the actress is? Wikipedia says 17 at the moment, I imagine she was 16 during filming. The new actress is 6 1/2 years older than her predecessor. e;f,b
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May 16, 2019 17:37
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Endgame: I just wanted to use spoiler tags and be one of the cool kids. Truly the worst part of the movie.
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May 16, 2019 17:46
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Gitro posted:It's not like the amount of time between the battle ending and them taking the stones back actually matters, and presumably they'd have to wait at least as long as it takes Pym to make enough particles for 5-6 jumps anyway. The Back to the Future discussion with Scott and the smart people laid out the rules pretty plainly. If you go into the past, you are still in your "present". What you think of as "the future" from that point of view is in your past because you already experienced it. Anything you do cannot change your past, but it can change the future of the timeline you are currently in which means it has to create a tangent timeline. It's only through the magic of the quantum realm that you can ever return to your original timeline at all. Otherwise, you'd be stuck in the tangent timeline forever and if you went into the future, you'd be in a new future, not your previous present.
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May 16, 2019 18:26
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Aleph Null posted:The Back to the Future discussion with Scott and the smart people laid out the rules pretty plainly. If you go into the past, you are still in your "present". What you think of as "the future" from that point of view is in your past because you already experienced it. Anything you do cannot change your past, but it can change the future of the timeline you are currently in which means it has to create a tangent timeline. It's only through the magic of the quantum realm that you can ever return to your original timeline at all. Otherwise, you'd be stuck in the tangent timeline forever and if you went into the future, you'd be in a new future, not your previous present. Yes,i agree and thought all of that was pretty clear in the movie too. It's why nebula can kill a past nebula and they can't just send Thor back to get it right the first time. Lots of people seem to disagree with this, though, including some of the people that made the movie. I just think it could've been avoided by being slightly more explicit on the 'no, it's multiverse' front. Which doesn't matter, because it is how it works in the movie, or at least it's how its explained and nothing contradicts that interpretation, but here I am getting invested in comic book movie time travel mechanics anyway.
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May 16, 2019 19:05
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Clam Chowdown posted:Endgame: Why did Ant Man's daughter age like 10 years in the 5 year time skip? Also Ant Man 2 takes place right after CW, so maybe a year or two before IW, so she'll have aged even more. I think it's just the reverse of casting people in their 30s to play teenagers.
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May 16, 2019 19:06
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Ant Man and the Wasp takes place during Infinity War. It's on TVs occasionally in the background. It's a little more than 2 years after Civil War, because Scott is just finishing his 2 year house arrest deal during the movie.
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May 16, 2019 19:15
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Gitro posted:Yes,i agree and thought all of that was pretty clear in the movie too. It's why nebula can kill a past nebula and they can't just send Thor back to get it right the first time. Lots of people seem to disagree with this, though, including some of the people that made the movie. I just think it could've been avoided by being slightly more explicit on the 'no, it's multiverse' front. They saved the multiverse reveal for the Spider-Man Far From Home Trailer.
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May 16, 2019 19:16
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Aphrodite posted:Ant Man and the Wasp takes place during Infinity War. It's on TVs occasionally in the background. Clint was still wearing his ankle monitor when the snap happened.
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May 16, 2019 19:16
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Aleph Null posted:They saved the multiverse reveal for the Spider-Man Far From Home Trailer. Of course there is a huge chance that Mysterio is massively bullshitting about that, as he is wont to do.
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May 16, 2019 19:58
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Dr Christmas posted:Of course there is a huge chance that Mysterio is massively bullshitting about that, as he is wont to do. I can imagine it ends up being a mix where both are true. He comes from another world, but like some kind of supervillain version of Booster Gold, he brought the bad things so he could play hero.
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May 16, 2019 20:01
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