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Toreador could be good if more combat encounters happen in masquerade areas. The way they word abilities, you could theoretically could activate Awe around humans and then use celerity without risking masquerade. Brujah are distinctly at a disadvantage in public situations. That being said, I don't know how Entrance would work in combat zones, are followers just going to pop out of the woodwork or will Toreador be distinctly disadvantaged in combat zones?
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May 16, 2019 02:28
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Entorwellian posted:Toreador in Bloodlines 1 would be great if the game didn't require so much fighting. It feels like they get crippled in the late game unless you focus them on dexterity, firearms and melee over their social strengths. They do. A lot of times I've seen people get turned off the game because they found their heavy social build wasn't cutting it. Usually around the sewers.
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May 16, 2019 02:34
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alansmithee posted:Honestly they probably could have just give tremere 2 Thaum powers (blood and flame, or maybe focused mind so you have something less combat) and then let toreador have auspex. Especially since by far the most iconic thing about tremere is thaum and all the different trees Yeah, but Presence and Auspex don't exactly give Toreador a lot of oomph in the combat department - and while I don't expect this game to be all killing all the time, I do expect, it being a video game and all, that there will be problems that can only be solved via violence. Celerity goes a long way to ungimp the social-focused Clan in those circumstances.
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May 16, 2019 03:18
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I am curious what little trinkets, skill books and Occult Items will work in 2. As much as I like a free point in Charisma beyond what you should naturally be able to get, I wanted more like the Odious Chalice or the Saulocept. I don't care if they're hard to find or clan specific stuff, poo poo like a ring that gives you extra blood magic damage and its actually seen on your character is what I want.
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May 16, 2019 04:39
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Yeah, but Presence and Auspex don't exactly give Toreador a lot of oomph in the combat department - and while I don't expect this game to be all killing all the time, I do expect, it being a video game and all, that there will be problems that can only be solved via violence. Celerity goes a long way to ungimp the social-focused Clan in those circumstances. I'm thinking they could've done something similar to Animalism in Bloodlines 1 where they basically add or modify either power to give some combat oomph. Like presence could easily be adapted to have some sort of stun/incapacitate added on various levels, or you could have Auspex let you predict attacks better (easier dodge)/find weak points better. Although really, you're gonna run into the problem of overlap anyways so you may as well get it out the way. It's just something that's especially gonna be an issue for Brujah, Toreador, Ventrue, and Nosferatu since none of them have their own clan power to really differentiate them (although not so much for Nos since they have the whole gruesome appearance thing going on).
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May 16, 2019 08:10
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It's rad they allow the Toreador to summon humans to start a conga line IMO.
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May 16, 2019 10:56
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Crabtree posted:I can live with that as long as they start their own wolf project if their vampire game goes well. But then this could still be true and uh, I am really scared for a werewolf 2020 game that I have yet to loving see anything of! A little late but I have some bad news for you. I hope it gets cancelled posted:“Become Cahal, a banished werewolf, forced to return to the aid of his endangered clan and master the devastating Rage within him to punish all those that would pollute, destroy, and corrupt our Mother Earth, Gaïa. On his bloody quest for redemption, Cahal will play a pivotal role in the Great War of the Garou against Pentex, a powerful corporation whose activities are upsetting the balance of nature.” Doing a spot-check, it appears our man Cahal is (or was) a Fianna! Congrats, you get to play as yet another white-rear end dude.
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May 16, 2019 14:50
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Piracy seems like a poor career choice for someone who needs to hide from the sun.
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May 16, 2019 17:18
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Old Boot posted:Doing a spot-check, it appears our man Cahal is (or was) a Fianna! Congrats, you get to play as yet another white-rear end dude. Should have gone with Black Fury. Would have been fun to see the Raging from the usual corners.
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May 16, 2019 17:20
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Spun Dog posted:Piracy seems like a poor career choice for someone who needs to hide from the sun.
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May 16, 2019 18:00
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Poil posted:Maybe they only plunder at night. And probably don't climb the rigging during the day. "The ghouls forgot to strap down my coffin last morning. I was sliding around below deck all day!" Also, I''m curious what changes they'll make to the character sheet. I remember seeing a tweet that it had been changed and simplified somehow. The original sheet wasn't crazy confusing or anything, but it was almost like you had to reverse-engineer the character you wanted by looking at the skills and then seeing what stats actually effected those skills before touching anything. I know it's not the only game to do this, but it was kind of fiddly.
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May 16, 2019 19:18
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Poil posted:Maybe they only plunder at night. And probably don't climb the rigging during the day. I know vampires are slow to embrace change but the Industrial Revolution must've come as such a relief to them. Going from covered wagons and sailing ships for long-distance travel to trains, planes and automobiles? Even the most curmudgeonly methuselah must've gone  when the Transcontinental Railroad was completed.
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May 16, 2019 20:21
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McSpanky posted:I know vampires are slow to embrace change but the Industrial Revolution must've come as such a relief to them. Going from covered wagons and sailing ships for long-distance travel to trains, planes and automobiles? Even the most curmudgeonly methuselah must've gone You really think most of the curmudgeonly elders didn't go "uh gently caress no I am not getting on board the contraption that moves faster than anything God placed on this earth and is powered by fire! Also there may be people aboard who are not Caucasian my god these are the Final Nights indeed"? You are way more generous to them than I would be. Not that it really matters that much, as the vast majority of them settle down and never leave a given city for the rest of their unlives, because travel means leaving the centers of power they've built around themselves for centuries like cocoons.
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May 16, 2019 20:26
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Eh, white superiority is younger than most Methuselahs. Hell, the majority of them are probably some shade of brown since they came out of the cradle of civilization, in most cases. The whole concept of white people, as a whole, being better than everyone else regardless of nationality or cultural heritage is a relatively recent thing, in the grand scheme of human history.
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May 16, 2019 20:56
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Yeah I don't think 1,000+ year old undead monstrosities care much about race. The industrial revolution was probably great for them, though, since populations grew but we didn't have modern police forces/cellphone cameras, so if people vanished then oh well, guess they fell into a machine or something. Also electric or gas lights means more people out on the street at night, which means more opportunities to feed.
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May 16, 2019 21:06
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Isn't the general Kindred consensus on modernity that it's overall a bad thing because human society is changing too fast for the Masquerade to keep up?
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May 16, 2019 21:08
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YaketySass posted:Isn't the general Kindred consensus on modernity that it's overall a bad thing because human society is changing too fast for the Masquerade to keep up? Only recently. They never minded people having lots of food or worked metal goods or revolvers or artillery pieces. That all didn't apply in the city or was the kind of thing vampires can laugh off while they rip you limb from limb. Now all of a sudden there's infrared cameras on every street corner, the human is wearing night vision goggles, and his automatic rifle has a magazine of phosphorus tipped bullets.
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May 16, 2019 21:16
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I mean a Methuselah is at the end of the day an incredibly old rear end in a top hat so yeah, they will go "KINE IN MY DAY DESERVED EMBRACE. MORTALS TODAY AREN'T EVEN WORTH TO DRINK. WITH THEIR FOWL COMMAND OF LANGUAGE AND THEIR HEAT MARBLE FLOORS." Just because they don't use modern racism don't mean they aren't racist. But yeah, you get an elder or someone embraced around the 17th century and oh boy, you gonna have a phrenology fan.
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May 16, 2019 22:18
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Crabtree posted:I mean a Methuselah is at the end of the day an incredibly old rear end in a top hat so yeah, they will go "KINE IN MY DAY DESERVED EMBRACE. MORTALS TODAY AREN'T EGVEN WORTH TO DRINK. WITH THEIR FOWL COMMAND OF LANGUAGE AND THEIR HEAT MARBLE FLOORS." Just because they don't use modern racism don't mean they aren't racist. But yeah, you get an elder or someone embraced around the 17th century and oh boy, you gonna have a phrenology fan. Grout was too smart for Sigmund Freud and kept to the good old ways like phrenology. Grout is a big reason I'm not even convinced the Camarilla is more ethical than the Sabbat. His house of horrors was only marginally better than Andrei's.
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May 16, 2019 22:23
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Old Boot posted:A little late but I have some bad news for you. Yeah I was expecting a tribe around the British isles, the unreleased Heart of Gaia game that Dreamforge killed itself over involved I poo poo you not, a somehow not corrupted descendant of the White Howlers and were basically Picts and other Scotsmen but werewolves. Why wouldn't this new game involve the Irish Werewolves that hate body deformities as some kind of spiritual corruption and hang out with Fey?!
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May 16, 2019 22:29
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Oh god no, not a freaking Fianna.
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May 16, 2019 22:34
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NikkolasKing posted:Grout was too smart for Sigmund Freud and kept to the good old ways like phrenology. They aren't. All vampires are horrible monsters with an insatiable hunger where their soul used to be. The only difference between the Camarilla and the Sabbat is that the former wear the thinnest veneer of humanity to disguise themselves from their prey, and the latter don't bother. Of course, choosing not to bother once the prey upgraded to high enough tech to be truly dangerous is why there are a lot less Sabbat around these days... 
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May 16, 2019 22:38
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Angry Lobster posted:Oh god no, not a freaking Fianna. This is a bad thing because...?
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May 16, 2019 22:38
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Trenchdeep posted:This is a bad thing because...? People say "they just fight and get drunk".
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May 16, 2019 22:40
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Crabtree posted:I mean a Methuselah is at the end of the day an incredibly old rear end in a top hat so yeah, they will go "KINE IN MY DAY DESERVED EMBRACE. MORTALS TODAY AREN'T EVEN WORTH TO DRINK. WITH THEIR FOWL COMMAND OF LANGUAGE AND THEIR HEAT MARBLE FLOORS." Just because they don't use modern racism don't mean they aren't racist. But yeah, you get an elder or someone embraced around the 17th century and oh boy, you gonna have a phrenology fan. I can see where you're coming from, but it's kind of like a normal person being super worried about what breed of chicken their McChicken came from. It'd probably be an eccentricity at best in kindred society, especially for the really, really old ones. The whole point of being a super old vampire is that you can't even relate to humanity any more, and I assume that includes any prejudices you may have had in mortal life. What I'm saying is vampirism would solve a lot of the world's social problems and furthermore
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May 16, 2019 22:45
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YaketySass posted:People say "they just fight and get drunk". Trying to be positive, and all I've got is 'blank slate'. It's going to be bad, isn't it? 
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May 16, 2019 22:50
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YaketySass posted:People say "they just fight and get drunk".
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May 16, 2019 22:52
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HoboTech posted:I can see where you're coming from, but it's kind of like a normal person being super worried about what breed of chicken their McChicken came from. It'd probably be an eccentricity at best in kindred society, especially for the really, really old ones. COMMUNISM WOULD WORK FOR VAMPIRES
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May 16, 2019 22:53
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NikkolasKing posted:COMMUNISM WOULD WORK FOR VAMPIRES Damsel? Is that you? Seize the means of (hemoglobin) production! HoboTech fucked around with this message at 22:59 on May 16, 2019 |
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May 16, 2019 22:56
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quote:Brew They also have had a history of tying themselves to Irish politics and The Troubles. Including having Fianna being on both sides of the conflict. Many immigrated to North America due to the potato famine. Etc.
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May 16, 2019 23:00
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The potato blight was of the Wyrm.
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May 16, 2019 23:05
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Crabtree posted:They also have had a history of tying themselves to Irish politics and The Troubles. Including having Fianna being on both sides of the conflict. Many immigrated to North America due to the potato famine. Etc. ... Is their traditional greeting "top of the morning to ye" as well? Not going to lie, the tied into Irish culture stuff seems like it could be fine, assuming it was handled well. The gift there implies it was not.
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May 17, 2019 00:20
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White Supremacy is about a five hundred year idea, invented during the Enlightenment to justify colonialism. Vampires older than that will have different ideas about race and anybody who manages to maintain prejudices like racism, sexism, and so on after they're no longer human is probably too dumb to live very long anyway.
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May 17, 2019 00:23
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Trenchdeep posted:... Is their traditional greeting "top of the morning to ye" as well? Imagine all the of the Irish history and stereotypes from the 90s you can remember, mix that in with Celtic wooism, general werewolf cringe that already exists and a touch of Changling poo poo and you can imagine the best and worst of what a Fianna can get to. Its up to players and DMs to allow horrible poo poo to happen, but the books don't help stopping it.
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May 17, 2019 00:23
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the 1890s?
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May 17, 2019 00:27
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Pope Guilty posted:White Supremacy is about a five hundred year idea, invented during the Enlightenment to justify colonialism. Vampires older than that will have different ideas about race and anybody who manages to maintain prejudices like racism, sexism, and so on after they're no longer human is probably too dumb to live very long anyway. Plus vampire society isn't tied by mortal notions of belonging, it's all about cutthroat politicking with a strong emphasis on how you can never fully trust anybody and must rely on yourself and the people you can brutalize/manipulate into doing your biddings. And this only gets worse as you get older. The Antediluvians all lived in the same place once and they've been spending millennia trying to kill each other because gently caress it, the other guys would do it anyway.
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May 17, 2019 00:30
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Discrimination in vampire society seems to revolve primarily around clan and generation. I assume they don't care too much about skin colour since they treat all humans like cattle anyway.
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May 17, 2019 00:41
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Why the gently caress would i play a drat Fianna when i could play a Bone Gnawer instead?Samuel Clemens posted:Discrimination in vampire society seems to revolve primarily around clan and generation. I assume they don't care too much about skin colour since they treat all humans like cattle anyway. The older ones tend to care because certain clans tend to embrace from certain groups - even during the Dark Ages different elders aligned to the various kingdoms would poo poo on the peasants that served others. The racism is just to gently caress over their rivals which is somehow even worse.
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May 17, 2019 01:07
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NikkolasKing posted:Grout is a big reason I'm not even convinced the Camarilla is more ethical than the Sabbat. They're good neoliberals\dems. Keep how hosed up you are more or less under wraps, be valuable to those in power and you're good. The Sabbat revel in being monsters. They're the alt right, basically.
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May 17, 2019 01:13
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NikkolasKing posted:Grout is a big reason I'm not even convinced the Camarilla is more ethical than the Sabbat. His house of horrors was only marginally better than Andrei's. Oh, dear, no. 'Ethical' is not a thing the Camarilla cares about. It's simply a social convention to keep its members safe from humans and to keep things organized.
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May 17, 2019 01:31
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