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Just finished reading the chat on being cooperative in traffic earlier this morning. Then, watched a corvette owner being a total corvette owner, doing all he can to block a subaru from merging left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a-P1Sbfsrc The best part - 'vettebro doesn't even get the satisfaction from being a total cock. Love it. Also: a new low 
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May 23, 2019 21:16
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xzzy posted:Reducing the number of cars on the road by people not being required to drive 30+ miles to get to their desk would be helpful too! Yes and no. One has to look at the multiplier effect.
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May 23, 2019 21:19
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C-Bangin' it 
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um excuse me posted:But not more than if it we're a regular god drat lane. But then you'd have to pay for the additional lane, like perhaps by charging tolls to use it. Krakkles posted:I’m pretty sure that’s an incorrect application of supply and demand, based mostly in urban legend. It's not. It's a well-attested phenomenon that can occur in other sorts of networks as well, not just road networks. Google Braess's Paradox. And the converse is also true: There are cases where traffic flow improves when you remove a road. Note that it also has limits; once demand gets high enough things stop getting worse, probably because of "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
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May 23, 2019 21:20
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There is a measurable effect to the economy when you reduce commute times.
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May 23, 2019 21:24
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um excuse me posted:There is a measurable effect to the economy when you reduce commute times. Yes but that requires raising taxes on the rich which also impacts the economy (spoiler: it doesn't)
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May 23, 2019 22:37
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I would say we'd all benefit from scooters/motorcycles for commuting, but I've been to Vietnam and it turns out you can still have horrible scooter traffic.
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May 23, 2019 23:15
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um excuse me posted:There is a measurable effect to the economy when you reduce commute times. How so? Is it permanent, or is it canceled out in short order by people willing to extend their commute back to the old value?
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May 23, 2019 23:38
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Oh god it's a complicated answer. Basically time is money, the more time you waste in traffic, the more money you waste. Unless you literally do nothing all day, your time spent doing anything probably costs money. Whether it be using water to water the lawn or spending money on a hobby. Even watching TV requires some sort of subscription and electricity. This affects your professional life as well. You can't rack up those overtime hours or work has hard, or rather, you're less inclined to due to time constraints and the stress of commuting. The effects are small on a person to person basis, but when it comes macro economics it adds up very quickly. This isn't to mention spending money on imported resources like gasoline or overnight parts from Japan when you sit in traffic which don't contribute all that much. Fake edit: This was very hard to explain because I had to mention things that aren't imported for a more simplistic explanation of economic growth independent of car use. China controls the world. um excuse me fucked around with this message at 00:44 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 00:34
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Trap sprung. Now Phanatic gets to explain how wrong you are.
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May 24, 2019 00:52
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"Good thing we can all post on a comedy forum about automotive hijinks" I drive a 5 mile split lane highway which has an off ramp to the right of an overpass for a 35mph perpendicular road. It is pretty obvious when cars que in the right lane if they are taking the off ramp due to low traffic volume. Usually you can switch over to the left lane if you are continuing straight or hang out in that lane until the road ends 2 miles up. Yesterday was a bright clear sunny day. A silver car is in the left lane, about 10 car lengths ahead of me but whatever. I'm approaching at a speed to overtake in the right lane which would normally take the exit or continue straight (my path), As I'm overtaking the silver car. At the choke point they decide to take the exit. pulling into my lane about equal to my car. If I hadn't had motorcycle evasive training on my mind they would have tagged me. Gas pedal, and no one actively in the off ramp lane gave me room to swerve and accelerate away. No time to honk or anything.
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May 24, 2019 01:17
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Not really an AI story, but a big pet peeve. I've noticed that most modern security systems, like locking your car, turn on the reverse lights for like, 5 seconds. How is this legal? I've slammed on my brakes countless times because of this poo poo when looking for a parking space. If I see white lights in the back, I immediately assume "This guy is backing out, and probably not looking." There should be a law that says, "Reverse lights should only activate if the vehicle is physically in reverse gear."
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May 24, 2019 10:31
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Yeah, we've been bitching about that for quite some time.
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May 24, 2019 12:10
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Honestly I'm kind of surprised you stop for people who put on their reverse lights. Around here people get in their car, turn it on, shift into reverse, then answer their texts/write their dissertation. Reverse lights are no clear indicator of intent anymore and nobody treats them as such. If anything people will speed up to actively block you from backing out before they get by.
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May 24, 2019 13:44
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:Honestly I'm kind of surprised you stop for people who put on their reverse lights. Around here people get in their car, turn it on, shift into reverse, then answer their texts/write their dissertation. Reverse lights are no clear indicator of intent anymore and nobody treats them as such. If anything people will speed up to actively block you from backing out before they get by. I had a guy threaten to run me over in retaliation for not yielding to his reverse lights a couple months ago.
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May 24, 2019 13:52
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um excuse me posted:Oh god it's a complicated answer. Basically time is money, the more time you waste in traffic, the more money you waste. Unless you literally do nothing all day, your time spent doing anything probably costs money. Whether it be using water to water the lawn or spending money on a hobby. Even watching TV requires some sort of subscription and electricity. This affects your professional life as well. You can't rack up those overtime hours or work has hard, or rather, you're less inclined to due to time constraints and the stress of commuting. The effects are small on a person to person basis, but when it comes macro economics it adds up very quickly. This isn't to mention spending money on imported resources like gasoline or overnight parts from Japan when you sit in traffic which don't contribute all that much. Yeah, your time spent driving to work is a cost, but eliminating a cost is not the same thing as an economic benefit. Okay, so people burn less gas, and have more money in their pocket to go to the movie theater. That means the guy running the gas station doesn't make as much money, and can't go see John Wick 3. Fewer overnight parts from Japan or Chinese steel mean service shops close and Ford lays people off and maybe go get a job in a bicycle shop. Shifting expenditures around from category A to category B isn't a net economic benefit, it's just neutral. Net economic benefit comes from increased production, and I'm not saying you're wrong: it's perfectly plausible that reducing commute times makes people more productive. But a lot of people live some distance away from where they work for reasons. It's cheaper out there, they have more land, it's a better school system, they're closer to their families, whatever. Those things have value to them that offset the cost of the extended commute. If you waved a magic wand and cut everyone's commute times in half, would you see that increased productivity or would people just move even further away to the same equilibrium between cost/value?
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May 24, 2019 13:54
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Phanatic posted:Yeah, your time spent driving to work is a cost, but eliminating a cost is not the same thing as an economic benefit. Okay, so people burn less gas, and have more money in their pocket to go to the movie theater. That means the guy running the gas station doesn't make as much money, and can't go see John Wick 3. Fewer overnight parts from Japan or Chinese steel mean service shops close and Ford lays people off and maybe go get a job in a bicycle shop. Shifting expenditures around from category A to category B isn't a net economic benefit, it's just neutral. Net economic benefit comes from increased production, and I'm not saying you're wrong: it's perfectly plausible that reducing commute times makes people more productive. But a lot of people live some distance away from where they work for reasons. It's cheaper out there, they have more land, it's a better school system, they're closer to their families, whatever. Those things have value to them that offset the cost of the extended commute. If you waved a magic wand and cut everyone's commute times in half, would you see that increased productivity or would people just move even further away to the same equilibrium between cost/value? Yep, like I alluded to earlier it all adds up. As for being more productive? Eh, that is more of a sociological issue. I would guess it would give more time for folks to talk about last night's Game of Thrones or how their fantasy football team did.
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May 24, 2019 14:07
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Colostomy Bag posted:Yep, like I alluded to earlier it all adds up. As for being more productive? Eh, that is more of a sociological issue. I would guess it would give more time for folks to talk about last night's Game of Thrones or how their fantasy football team did. I'm reminded of those bullshit estimates that come out every year that talk about how the Superbowl or the NCAA tournament caused a bajillion dollars in lost productivity because people spend time talking about them at work, based on the assumption that every second of the workday is spent in productive activity until one of those things takes place.
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May 24, 2019 14:25
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I referenced a study by Matthias Sweet who work for the McMaster institute for Transportation and Logistics. It's unfortunately behind a paywall. Very often you can just ask the author for their study and they'll gladly let you read it. The publisher puts up the paywall, not the author. This works for dissertations as well. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0042098013505883 Matt (not sure if that's the short name or not) created a way to measure traffic and it's ties to the economy, trying to isolate variables like education, mass transit, demographic and even weider things like government efficiency. When he ran the numbers the first time he thought he made a mistake because as traffic went up, the economy benefitted. He postulates that this is simply has the economy grows, more people drive to and from work. Makes sense, but as he widened the range of his study he found a break even point and then decline that supports the idea that as traffic gets beyond a certain point, the economic effects are net negative. His first example was Washington DC, personally agreeable a hellscape for commuting, where government shutdowns actually benefitted the economy of the region. Note this is one of 88 examples he compiled across the US as not to misrepresent a nation with one city. Detroit was another great example of a traffic decline ending up with a net benefit to the economy there. And again, this isolates other things so to not confuse the collapse there effecting the economy.
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May 24, 2019 14:25
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:Honestly I'm kind of surprised you stop for people who put on their reverse lights. Around here people get in their car, turn it on, shift into reverse, then answer their texts/write their dissertation. Reverse lights are no clear indicator of intent anymore and nobody treats them as such. If anything people will speed up to actively block you from backing out before they get by. I've been run over by a car before, so on foot in a parking lot I'm pretty wary of any indicator that Chubbo McDirtyBackupCamera is about to come tearing out of his spot and crush me. There's been a few times where I've had to make a polite slap on their rear glass as they wonder what those feet and legs are doing on their camera screen while they're trying to back up. Backup cameras are dehumanizing in the same way remote drone strikes are, I assume. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 15:06
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In my town you have to watch out for reverse lights, it’s a very high chance it’s either an old person who wouldn’t see you if your life depended on it, or some idiot who doesn’t think it’s necessary to look before moving their car in the reverse direction.
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May 24, 2019 15:12
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You're right, on foot you have your own life and limb to worry about and I always at least pause when I see someone's reverse lights come on. I was mostly talking about when driving.
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May 24, 2019 16:31
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Disgruntled Bovine posted:Honestly I'm kind of surprised you stop for people who put on their reverse lights. Around here people get in their car, turn it on, shift into reverse, then answer their texts/write their dissertation. Reverse lights are no clear indicator of intent anymore and nobody treats them as such. If anything people will speed up to actively block you from backing out before they get by. I stop because in many cases, the people can't see around an obstacle (like another parked car in a lot) & will just start backing out without making sure nobody is near them. I almost got backed into by an idiot coming out of his driveway yesterday because he clearly couldn't see around the trees/bushes & decided to hit the gas before looking. I'd rather slow or stop than have a jackass like that hit my car & try to blame me for their stupidity later.
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May 24, 2019 17:10
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BOOTY-ADE posted:I stop because in many cases, the people can't see around an obstacle (like another parked car in a lot) & will just start backing out without making sure nobody is near them. I almost got backed into by an idiot coming out of his driveway yesterday because he clearly couldn't see around the trees/bushes & decided to hit the gas before looking. I'd rather slow or stop than have a jackass like that hit my car & try to blame me for their stupidity later. I pay attention to that like hell because to get out of my subdivision I pass around at least 50 houses/driveways. Usually there are cars on the street and we have a fuckton of trees/shrubs, etc. So in my case, I somewhat give my situation a passing grade because 99% of the time they actually do stop even though they look like Evel Knievel backing out for a view (which is lovely). But the 1% of the time that poo poo can hit the fan is why you pay attention to that stuff and not assume the person backing out is paying attention. And why I slow-up, assess the situation, etc.
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May 24, 2019 17:50
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I almost got rear ended and then T-boned in the same 15 minute drive home from work. One lady was expecting me to drive up onto the train tracks while waiting for a red light and stopped so hard her tires squealed, and some douche in a smart car blew a stop sign on a 2 way stop and only missed me because I slammed on the brakes and swerved hard enough to almost hit the curb And people ask me why I don't buy a motorcycle...
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May 24, 2019 18:50
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The Door Frame posted:
No poo poo. There is quite a decrease of them. Boomers dying off? (Which is an interesting case study.) Or folks becoming more risk averse with all the idiots on the road?
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May 24, 2019 19:04
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The Door Frame posted:I almost got rear ended...expecting me to drive up onto the train tracks while waiting for a red light and stopped so hard her tires squealed I stop at stop bars, not at crosswalks (or in them). I regularly ask myself "Oh, is this the day I get whiplash?" as I watch the driver in my rearview poo poo their pants and smash the brake pedal because I stopped where you're supposed to. On the bike, I just stick to the edges of the lane when coming to a stop, depending on which side is more open. At least then if I get hit, I won't be sandwich meat 
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May 24, 2019 20:14
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I stop at bars as well.
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May 24, 2019 20:18
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Colostomy Bag posted:I stop at bars as well. I used to, but some of my friends broke out in handcuffs and now I just stop at restaurants.
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May 24, 2019 20:29
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Nice casual morning drive to work turned into me giving a statement. If they guy in front of me had not have pulled out it really could have been me getting T-boned. Everyone was fine. The girl in the sedan was completely baffled how she ran the red light. I told her the light for her had to have been red for quite a while sine our light had just turned yellow. The guy in the Subaru never even saw it coming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTARzpgaYvw&t=95s mrtrunks84 fucked around with this message at 03:59 on May 25, 2019 |
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May 25, 2019 03:48
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Gotta say your following distance is admirable, after five years driving in a major metro area I have gotten way more aggressive and it doesn't go away even in light traffic on slow roads.
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May 25, 2019 04:04
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At least a tow truck was already there 
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May 25, 2019 05:42
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mrtrunks84 posted:Nice casual morning drive to work turned into me giving a statement. If they guy in front of me had not have pulled out it really could have been me getting T-boned. Everyone was fine. The girl in the sedan was completely baffled how she ran the red light.  says she was on her phone
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May 25, 2019 17:02
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LloydDobler posted:They're horribly expensive too, which is why not everyone uses them and they move fast. I think one way from Denver to Boulder is $14. The rich pay with money and the poor pay with time.
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May 25, 2019 18:51
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BOOTY-ADE posted:
Oh yeah, if you can tell from the video, she never even hit her brakes.
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May 25, 2019 20:59
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Colostomy Bag posted:No poo poo. The latter for me. Rode for 20 years but sold the bike in 2012 because of people looking at their phones. I love riding but it’s not worth it. Not in a city, anyway. Maybe if I lived out in the sticks.
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May 25, 2019 23:11
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May 29, 2019 04:23
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I can’t wait until they brake check someone and the cop/insurance agent sees that window sticker.
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May 29, 2019 04:39
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What’s that weird thing on the roof? Also, a no fear sticker in TYOOL 2019?
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May 29, 2019 04:45
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Isn’t that knockoff No Fear, anyway? I mean, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if No Fear redesigned their logo with whatever font defaults in MS Paint, but ...
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May 29, 2019 05:10
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bolind posted:What’s that weird thing on the roof? Also, a no fear sticker in TYOOL 2019? Krakkles posted:Isn’t that knockoff No Fear, anyway? quote:It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand
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May 29, 2019 05:49
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