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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I thought Black Panther was kind of a snooze fest. The main character is, but luckily he's surrounded by a lot more fun people
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May 25, 2019 04:11
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Black Panther doesn't even break the MCU top 10 for me. Story aside, it easily has the worst action and some of the most questionable CG in the entire series. Killmonger was cool, but it's definitely the most overhyped/overrated MCU film imo.
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May 25, 2019 04:13
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teagone posted:Lol same. Endgame was fine, whatever, and Winter Soldier is probably the best MCU movie, but I really don't like how the Russo Bros come across online and in interviews. They seem entirely full of themselves. Not even the best captain America movie. And I never saw the third one
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May 25, 2019 04:32
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teagone posted:Black Panther doesn't even break the MCU top 10 for me. Story aside, it easily has the worst action and some of the most questionable CG in the entire series. Killmonger was cool, but it's definitely the most overhyped/overrated MCU film imo. One of those movies where the trailer has everything good about the movie plus better editing and music...all condensed into less than 3 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5pHFvMQZCI
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May 25, 2019 06:42
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DeimosRising posted:Not even the best captain America movie. And I never saw the third one It is, but the first Captain America is a close second. There are no other Captain America movies.
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May 25, 2019 06:54
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LesterGroans posted:It is, but the first Captain America is a close second. There are no other Captain America movies. Avengers 2.5: Cap's Boi Love
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May 25, 2019 07:32
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Avengers 2.5: Cap's Boi Love It would be nice if they at least leaned into it instead of ignoring it completely. It's so surprising to me that the Russo Brothers did Winter Soldier and Civil War, which leaned heavily on the sexual chemistry between Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan (who was given literally nothing else to do), and they completely stifled it in the end. Infinity War gives them a slight bro-hug and then Chris Evans not really giving a poo poo when Sebastian Stan turns into pepper. Then they kinda get a moment near the end of Endgame. It's a really poorly done storyline.
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May 25, 2019 07:36
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teagone posted:Black Panther doesn't even break the MCU top 10 for me. Story aside, it easily has the worst action and some of the most questionable CG in the entire series. Killmonger was cool, but it's definitely the most overhyped/overrated MCU film imo. I’m watching it now after seeing it last year and it actually holds up imo. I usually don’t watch marvel movies more than once, but BP doesn’t feel like a Marvel movie. It’s not as corny and it hides the formula better, plus Killmonger is way more brutal than your average villain. Wakanda is also really neat and different versus generic sci fi sets and New York City.
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May 25, 2019 07:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3CqfM6D7wY Killmonger is a great villain.
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May 26, 2019 16:27
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Black Panther was far more compelling in Captain America: Civil War, which is a real failing of his own movie. He lacks any sort of interesting edge or self-conflict. The "your dad bad" angle was done better in any number of MCU movies.
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May 26, 2019 18:36
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BP the movie had nice settings and side characters but I think BP the guy was best in civil war. Real straightforward and tight writing.
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May 26, 2019 18:54
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Qwezz posted:Killmonger is a great villain. I thought the film was so so overall, but Killmonger is still the only good villain in the MCU.
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May 26, 2019 20:40
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I thought the film was so so overall, but Killmonger is still the only good villain in the MCU. Killmonger, iron man and Infinity war thanos are the good villains imho
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May 26, 2019 23:58
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LesterGroans posted:It's so surprising to me that the Russo Brothers did Winter Soldier and Civil War, which leaned heavily on the sexual chemistry between Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan I’ve seen all the movies several times and never once thought there was sexual chemistry between Cap and Bucky. That’s just weird and unnecessary, like Black Widow hitting on Pepper Potts or something. People read way too much into this stuff nowadays. Like, it’s ok for men to be good friends without wanting to gently caress each other. It’s ok to care about people without trying to gently caress them. Be Depressive fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 00:23
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I thought the film was so so overall, but Killmonger is still the only good villain in the MCU. The Grandmaster and Vulture are great villains. I always forget about the Spider-Man movie when people say MCU because the tone is so different that it feels like it's just a good standalone movie outside of Iron Man/Happy rocking up and all the New York poo poo. That stuff feels really extraneous to what is centrally a cool Spider-Man in high school story.
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May 27, 2019 00:50
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Michael Keaton was the hero not the villain.
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May 27, 2019 00:51
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euphronius posted:Michael Keaton was the hero not the villain. He was a wannabe weapons and warfare Cornelius Vanderbilt.
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May 27, 2019 00:52
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JBP posted:He was a wannabe weapons and warfare Cornelius Vanderbilt. The villain in that movie was iron man. Vulture and Spider-Man were competing heroes imho.
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May 27, 2019 00:53
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euphronius posted:Michael Keaton was the hero not the villain. Same, but Killmonger.
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May 27, 2019 00:57
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euphronius posted:The villain in that movie was iron man. Vulture and Spider-Man were competing heroes imho. Yeah for sure. Tony as usual was the NY Ferry/alien weapons monopoly in bed with the government
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May 27, 2019 01:00
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teagone posted:Black Panther doesn't even break the MCU top 10 for me. Story aside, it easily has the worst action and some of the most questionable CG in the entire series. Killmonger was cool, but it's definitely the most overhyped/overrated MCU film imo. Aquaman is the best Black Panther movie imo I was stunned by Aquaman after discarding the idea of it for like a year; what, he talks to fish? But the Wachowski-esque colour, CGI, and total commitment to their gimmick paid off with how sincere the story of Arthur reuniting his family and healing his brother was. Aquaman's ability to talk to fish actually is badass, because he uses it to turn enemies into friends. I also liked how well the film gives Jason Momoa ample room to lead while letting all its supporting actors show off, and how it earns its rare unabashedly happy ending. Namely, Willem Dafoe and Patrick Wilson are always great, and Amber Heard is as Mera as well. Mera's also awesome because she's consistently presented as an equal to Arthur (with her own unique power to boot).
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May 27, 2019 01:55
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Sorry but I just saw this for the first time and uhhh maybe I missed a line but how did Thanos' ship jump through time? Wasn't the last of the Pym particles used by Nebula jumping back to set up the trap?
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May 27, 2019 05:03
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:I thought the film was so so overall, but
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May 27, 2019 05:30
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f#a# posted:Sorry but I just saw this for the first time and uhhh maybe I missed a line but how did Thanos' ship jump through time? Wasn't the last of the Pym particles used by Nebula jumping back to set up the trap? 'They reverse engineered more from the one sample they had' is the official explanation
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May 27, 2019 05:41
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euphronius posted:Thor ragnarok is by far the best one. It’s not even close. Black Panther's politics are loving apalling. Also the last fight was absolute dogshit. Unforgiveable when the cast has put that much work in.
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May 27, 2019 09:58
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The last fight doesn't match the spectacle of Killmonger's coup-fight. But I give them credit for his not compromising at the end and going out in an amazing display of defiance. Totally could have been the opposite (oh Wakanda so beautiful my life has been all anger if only, etc).
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May 27, 2019 14:58
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Vulture was a great character but you have to be a long way off the libertarian deep end to think that spreading weapons of mass destruction around your neighbourhood to enrich yourself is even morally acceptable, let alone a heroic thing to do. The film did a good job of showing how uniquely destructive and dangerous the weapons were, every time they were deployed there was massive collateral damage.
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May 27, 2019 15:08
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He's an aggrieved Tony Stark but without millions for good PR is the tack I would take in that argument. Not that I necessarily buy that, but there are certainly enough similarities to make it a fun take.
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May 27, 2019 15:15
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When people say Vulture or Killmonger are the "good guys" what they mean is that the systems they are opposing are very clearly evil and corrupt and they're "right" in their opposition. It also somewhat acknowledges the nature of most super heroes either as vigilantes operating outside the law or directly as tools of the oppressive system, using violence to solve the problems in both cases. Obviously Vulture isn't starting a revolution for the people by flooding the streets with alien tech to make himself rich, but it's not worse than the shadow government seizing this stuff to make their own weapons to create a police state (remember this is explicitly the plot of Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier and even Tony attempts similar things in Age of Ultron, Civil War and beyond). You could even argue that by spreading this stuff around he's evening the odds. Killmonger is starting a revolution but also wants to then start an immediate and bloody global war for basically no reason. If he was going to stop at taking over Wakanda, revealing their presence to the world and then using their superior military technology to provide refuge and aid to oppressed people worldwide he would very obviously and unambiguously be a better alternative to T'Challa.
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May 27, 2019 16:02
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If it was tracking reality Black Panther 2 could have been about Killmonger's various sponsored revolutions failing and the result being Wakandan society reproducing a stagnant and authoritarian elite class Thor had the balls to destroy Asgard even at the cost of him becoming super depressed and fat afterward. Thor is the real hero of the MCU
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May 27, 2019 16:40
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Guy A. Person posted:Obviously Vulture isn't starting a revolution for the people by flooding the streets with alien tech to make himself rich, but it's not worse than the shadow government seizing this stuff to make their own weapons to create a police state (remember this is explicitly the plot of Avengers 1 and Winter Soldier and even Tony attempts similar things in Age of Ultron, Civil War and beyond). You could even argue that by spreading this stuff around he's evening the odds. I don't really think supporting the gun nut "we need the guns to fight the government, second amendment WOO" mindset is a good thing, especially because those guns aren't exactly going to be going to the people most likely to be oppressed. Like seriously what the gently caress. "He's evening the odds" really? Like these weapons are going to just be used to fight Generic Evil Government and not to shoot up schools? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:01 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 16:58
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Yeah I think that point of view is completely insane. And there's never any indication that Vulture holds that ideology, he's doing something he knows is wrong because it makes him money and the consequences will never reach him (much like most real life villains). Yes this is similar to Tony Stark at the start of Iron Man before he undergoes his character arc.
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May 27, 2019 17:14
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ImpAtom posted:I don't really think supporting the gun nut "we need the guns to fight the government, second amendment WOO" mindset is a good thing, especially because those guns aren't exactly going to be going to the people most likely to be oppressed. I didn't advocate for that viewpoint at all, saying only "it could be argued" and pointing out that he was still just making himself rich even though he was right to hate Stark. So uhhh your "seriously what the gently caress" is super hostile.
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May 27, 2019 17:32
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Guy A. Person posted:I didn't advocate for that viewpoint at all, saying only "it could be argued" and pointing out that he was still just making himself rich even though he was right to hate Stark. So uhhh your "seriously what the gently caress" is super hostile. Because it came across as you absolutely trying to argue that point especially in conjunction with the rest of your post. The rest of the part I quoted is you, seemingly unironically, supporting the "we need the guns to fight the government" mindset. Like again, even taking that part out of the argument, your statement is "It's justified/not wrong to sell incredibly destructive weapons to the highest bidder because the government also has incredibly destructive weapons." Ignoring the fact that the people who get these weapons are not going to be the poor/downtrodden but wealthy assholes and the odds of these weapons being used to fight the shadow government are significantly less than them being used for violent murder of innocent people. If that isn't what you meant/you were only Devil's Advocating then I apologize for the harshness but being as this is the internet it's incredibly difficult to tell Devil's Advocate from Genuine Belief. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:54 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 17:40
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Guy A. Person posted:uhhh your "seriously what the gently caress" is super hostile. I legit think that the overlap with Toomes and Stark is good. But "No actually the guy that sent armed thugs to intimidate a high schooler and then tried to crush him to death/drop him from a moving plane is who you should be cheering for" is going to be a hard sell.
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May 27, 2019 17:48
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ImpAtom posted:Because it came across as you absolutely trying to argue that point especially in conjunction with the rest of your post. The rest of the part you quoted is me outlining why people already think Stark/SHIELD are the "bad guys" and didn't at all outline a strategy for defeating them. I even flat out said that he's not directly opposing them, he's just making himself rich. I then qualified (within my already qualified argument) a hypothetical viewpoint where people might think undermining this institution is a good thing. Like, in this post you don't even acknowledge that I said I wasn't advocating that by....pretending I totally did, and then misquoting me (hint, when you put these " " around things it implies a direct quote and I didn't say "It's justified/not wrong to sell incredibly destructive weapons to the highest bidder because the government also has incredibly destructive weapons." in my post). Maybe it "comes across" that way except here's me telling you I didn't mean that and you're still arguing against what you thought you read. I know you want to be righteously indignant but I'm just going to point out again that I am not advocating for someone selling black market weapons to street thugs as an effective way to combat an oppressive government. FilthyImp posted:You might have missed the last, what, 40 pages of arguments or something, but this is not a good thread to come into with hot takes as a result of previous idiocy. I have no idea what this is referring to. I was seriously doing the exact same thing you did above but I didn't qualify it as explicitly as you did. So here let me try again: I do not believe selling weapons to people is a good thing in any situation and I do not think Toomes is the good guy. I am only stating that other people (again, not me) connect with his anti-corporate/government message when they call him a "good guy".
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May 27, 2019 18:04
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Guy A. Person posted:The rest of the part you quoted is me outlining why people already think Stark/SHIELD are the "bad guys" and didn't at all outline a strategy for defeating them. I even flat out said that he's not directly opposing them, he's just making himself rich. I then qualified (within my already qualified argument) a hypothetical viewpoint where people might think undermining this institution is a good thing. Okay then. I am going to straight-up say this and give you benefit of the doubt: The way your worded it sounds exactly like you were genuinely arguing the point as something you believed and then acting indigent when you got called on it. If that isn't the case then I apologize for upsetting you, but you worded it in such a way that it came across that way to multiple people. It is genuinely very difficult to tell the "I'm just arguing the point" people from the people who unironically think that way on the internet.
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May 27, 2019 18:13
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ImpAtom posted:If that isn't what you meant/you were only Devil's Advocating then I apologize for the harshness but being as this is the internet it's incredibly difficult to tell Devil's Advocate from Genuine Belief. Sorry I missed this edit, it was a few minutes later. Yeah it was just a misunderstanding and I can see my point was kinda messy and maybe I should have been clearer that I wasn't saying this is what I believed. I think there is a growing viewpoint of the Stark/SHIELD/HYDRA government being the ultimate bad guys of these movies and it's mostly an "enemy of my enemy" thing, regardless of his methods.
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May 27, 2019 18:14
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ImpAtom posted:If that isn't the case then I apologize for upsetting you, but you worded it in such a way that it came across that way to multiple people. You didn't upset me at all it just came as out of nowhere hostility. Even if I totally supported the "spreading guns and chaos throughout this fictional techno-police state is unironically good" viewpoint I don't think it warrants that, at least until you can confirm whether/how this maps to real world politics. Also sorry, I don't see a 3 poster consensus as proof of what my post implied, and with you cutting a bunch of the context of my post (particularly the parts where I put scare quotes around Toomes being "right" or "good guys" and implied that use of violence was a bad thing) I wasn't at all convinced that you fully tried to understand where I was coming from before jumping to indignation.
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May 27, 2019 18:25
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Guy A. Person posted:I have no idea what this is referring to. Basically, check out SuperMechaGodzilla's rap sheet to see what he was saying in this very thread that earned him a 30 day timeout.
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May 27, 2019 18:56
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