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Digamma-F-Wau posted:Steven Universe isn't over yet It may as well be, the main story is over and it jumped the shark a while back. I'm going to be shocked if the next season is any good
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May 26, 2019 15:39
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:Steven Universe isn't over yet I'm all for a cute and sentimental 45 minute OVA just having the Beach City people and gems live their lives. Maybe we cut forward and have some utopian Gem-fused future where Connie and Steve announce they're having a kid or something. But unless we get a cliffhanger ending where Rose comes back somehow, the story's done.
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May 26, 2019 16:54
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Well right now, there's OK KO, Craig of the Creek, and Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, they all fit the sort of model of comedy first, with more dramatic narrative elements steadily creeping up into center stage. There's also more comedic stuff like Milo Murphy's Law and The Amazing World of Gumball. There's a number of shows slated to start up pretty soon, but it's hard to say how good they'll be until they come out. Viking Skool, Owl House, Amphibia, Close Enough, and Infinity Train. Netflix has a slew of stuff that I mostly haven't watched yet, and I get the sense that Netflix has more money than they know what to do with for investing into projects. Aggretsuko sure was good and has a second season coming, and I've heard good things about Dragon Prince and the new She-Ra. And entirely outside of the normal TV system there's stuff like Cartoon Hangover or Rooster Teeth making their own cartoons like Camp Camp and Nomad of Nowhere.
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May 26, 2019 18:07
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Maelstache posted:I was fine with the way it ended, but I will always wonder how late into production of Season 4 they knew they weren't doing another They may have just planned for cancellation ahead of time. For a long time Disney has had an unofficial policy to never have more than 4 seasons of a show (they used to have a straight up official policy for only 65 episodes of any given show, though that's gone now) and although shows have gone past that (most recently, that snorefest Avengers Assemble cartoon), more often than not 4 is the limit.
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May 26, 2019 19:55
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Realized this afternoon that the warrior queen out to exterminate monsters is a tad hypocritical since her quest for Mewman supremacy conveniently overlooks that she can turn into a giant butterfly woman...
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May 28, 2019 05:53
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FilthyImp posted:Realized this afternoon that the warrior queen out to exterminate monsters is a tad hypocritical since her quest for Mewman supremacy conveniently overlooks that she can turn into a giant butterfly woman... Who did and didn't count as a monster was always arbitrary. The show points this out on several occasions.
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May 28, 2019 06:52
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FilthyImp posted:Realized this afternoon that the warrior queen out to exterminate monsters is a tad hypocritical since her quest for Mewman supremacy conveniently overlooks that she can turn into a giant butterfly woman... Did you just realize that now? That is like, the main point of the entire show.
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May 28, 2019 13:31
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Finally, some good loving content             
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May 28, 2019 16:08
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Everytime Star kicks a door open all I hear in my head is Ed Wuncler Jr from The Boondocks going "Kya, bitch!" Also, I notice that kicking in doors is a common trope in animation. I wonder if that's because animators just find it funny or because it's easier to animate it that way than opening the door properly.
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May 28, 2019 16:44
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I'd wager both. Animating hands moving and touching things is always hard, and kicking things is often funny, so it's win-win.
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May 28, 2019 16:48
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I was talking to someone about this show and how weird it is how accepted 'storytelling' is in children's television compared to adult media. Like it's pretty much normal now that pretty much all big popular kids cartoons have or can have ongoing complex narratives that progress every episode. Even a show like this that starts out as a pretty episodic fluff "magic princess goes has to fit in at highschool" can just pick up political drama and allegory a few seasons in and then have every single episode contribute to an ongoing story. In adult television media it's still kinda rare. Stories either don't progress, progress only in special season finale type episodes and stick with status quos in between, or else the whole show is explicitly labeled top to bottom as being "the show that has a story" like game of thrones or breaking bad. "The good place" feels like the only adult audience show that has the "yeah we have a plot, so what?" feeling that almost all kids media has now, and it's so weird.
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May 28, 2019 18:10
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Janna should have won the Marcobowl
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May 28, 2019 18:34
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Foreskin Problems posted:Janna should have won the Starbowl
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May 28, 2019 18:52
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Marco always felt kinda shallow to me as a character. He didn't have much of an arc, his primary purposes were to react to weird magic stuff and be a target of romantic interests. Whenever the show followed him alone for a while, it always felt kinda weak.
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May 28, 2019 19:32
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SlothfulCobra posted:Marco always felt kinda shallow to me as a character. He didn't have much of an arc, his primary purposes were to react to weird magic stuff and be a target of romantic interests. Whenever the show followed him alone for a while, it always felt kinda weak. I'm mostly glad they kept him as largely just a guy and just a sidekick. He didn't really have any part in the big magical destiny stuff and it'd have felt lame if they tried to shoehorn that in like lots of stories do.
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May 28, 2019 21:03
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I'm pretty sure kicking a door open with your feet is the "correct" way to do it if you don't have an axe, and using your shoulder is mostly a way to hurt yourself.
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May 28, 2019 21:42
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SlothfulCobra posted:Marco always felt kinda shallow to me as a character. He didn't have much of an arc, his primary purposes were to react to weird magic stuff and be a target of romantic interests. Whenever the show followed him alone for a while, it always felt kinda weak. He was definitely more of a straight man to Star and everyone else's antics but when the show moved to Mewni in season 3, Marco stopped having anything else to do. Any interests/friends he had (like his karate classes or his girlfriend or any human friends, etc) got left on Earth, such as it was, and any depth kind of disappeared. Without any human supporting cast and completely out of his depth. One of the reasons I still like season 2 the best over the rest. Rand Brittain posted:I'm pretty sure kicking a door open with your feet is the "correct" way to do it if you don't have an axe, and using your shoulder is mostly a way to hurt yourself. i went through a phase in my mid-teens where I started kicking open doors because it felt cool, up until the other shoe finally dropped and a guy happened to be near a door at exactly the wrong time and I loving smashed his nose by accident. At a party. At a church. It was awkward the rest of the night. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 22:21 on May 28, 2019 |
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May 28, 2019 22:15
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Can't say I agree. A big part of season 3 was Macro trying to adjust to life without Star, realizing it was unacceptable, and transitioning to Mewni. It is true that all his character beats happen double-quick, but that's how it goes for anyone in the show not named Star Butterly. I also think that's okay. Star is the protagonist. It's fine for her side-kick to receive less screen time and character work. Besides, I wouldn't even say Macro is shallow because of the show's writing, but because he's just not as interesting as Star. He's a steady, reliable every-man. He doesn't kick in doors.
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May 29, 2019 01:33
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In retrospect Marco did kind of stop getting stuff in season 4. He got like one episode with Kelly. Maybe that was because S4 dragged out Starco til the end for some awful reason. I wouldn't say he lost much by leaving Earth. The Jackie thing was over at that point, the karate stuff had nowhere to go, and he still had Star and Tom and Janna. Tetracube fucked around with this message at 02:18 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 02:15
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Tetracube posted:In retrospect Marco did kind of stop getting stuff in season 4. He got like one episode with Kelly. Maybe that was because S4 dragged out Starco til the end for some awful reason. Towards the end everybody kind of got a rushed plot-arc resolution. Jackie, Tom, Kelly, pretty much everyone but Starco. I think Kelly and Marco trying to make a rebound relationship work could have been interesting, especially considering the maturing they had both earned from their prior relationships. I'm glad Ludo eventually found peace with his family but him lack of involvement in the end kind of made me sad (of course, I love Alan Tudyk and felt that between Ludo and the King he definitely became a background comedy relief character). Heck even that heel-turn move from the Queen being behind Mina got a 20-second heart-to-heart mother/daughter chat and that's about it. It's funny timing, but two of my favorite shows, Star and Game of Thrones, were had amazingly well-developed characters that got a very rushed ending. Hopefully whatever Star's writers/directors/producers had something amazing waiting in the wings like the GoT's writers.
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May 29, 2019 02:30
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Kaincypher posted:Towards the end everybody kind of got a rushed plot-arc resolution. Jackie, Tom, Kelly, pretty much everyone but Starco. I think Kelly and Marco trying to make a rebound relationship work could have been interesting, especially considering the maturing they had both earned from their prior relationships. I'm glad Ludo eventually found peace with his family but him lack of involvement in the end kind of made me sad (of course, I love Alan Tudyk and felt that between Ludo and the King he definitely became a background comedy relief character). Heck even that heel-turn move from the Queen being behind Mina got a 20-second heart-to-heart mother/daughter chat and that's about it. This show doesn't feel like it really liked conclusions. It explicitly mocked the idea of a point coming where there is a happy ending with the paradox photo thing and mina's last words are that her hate will come back, even the grand finale is realizing that magic constantly causing every conflict in the show is something that will just go on forever and ever as long as their is magic. This show seems deliberate in not wrapping everything up too much, like life isn't heading to some singular day where everything is sorted out, it's always ongoing.
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May 29, 2019 03:27
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True, but while I agree the show does deal in messages about the falsehood of "endings" it also runs, dashes, and at times leaps to tie up various plot threads. And don't think that the latter is a deliberate compliment to the former. So yeah, the writers understand that lives continue after the story is over, but they did have to end the story they were telling and clearly had to rush in certain places to get poo poo done. To their credit, and with the notable exception of Moon's heel-turn, most everything felt consistent to the various characters and their arcs.
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May 29, 2019 03:39
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Skippy McPants posted:True, but while I agree the show does deal in messages about the falsehood of "endings" it also runs, dashes, and at times leaps to tie up various plot threads. And don't think that the latter is a deliberate compliment to the former. I was fine with the endings, and for the most part they were consistent, it was just the rush job getting there. I feel like if Tom and Star had drifted apart it would feel natural. The Kelly and Marco rebound relationship was completely wasted in a throwaway line in the biker episode. Instead it was just like, oh we're done with this, move on. Ludo earned his character arc and happy ending, but I just wanted more involvement because I liked the character.
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May 29, 2019 03:52
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Yeah, I'd say overall that we got about a season and a half of storylines and endings in the second half of the season. Makes me think they were expecting/hoping for a season 5 until about halfway through plotting out season 4.
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May 29, 2019 03:58
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Maybe, but ending things is hard. Nearly every fiction author reaches an impasse where the must choose either a) keep going and never finish anything, b) wrap major threads organically but leave minor ones dangling, or c) tie up everything in a big drat hurry. Even under ideal conditions, it's an unenviable task that can count fewer true success stories than a leper can toes. I think this show does an average, or maybe slightly above average job which is enough to satisfy. The overall quality is high enough that they would need to nosedive at the finish line to really ruin things.
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May 29, 2019 04:06
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Yeah, I'd say overall that we got about a season and a half of storylines and endings in the second half of the season. Makes me think they were expecting/hoping for a season 5 until about halfway through plotting out season 4. I don't know, it doesn't seem like the mistakes they made in season 4 can be attributed to that. What would be different if they knew they were getting an S5? Would they have dragged out the love triangle even longer?
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May 29, 2019 04:11
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Tetracube posted:Would they have dragged out the love triangle even longer? Absolutely. Another thing that's very hard is moving from romantic tension to a romantic relationship. Writers are terrified of that transition and the associated risks. There's a reason nearly every film and TV show that has a "will they/won't they" at its center ends the moment the couple is together. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 04:44 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 04:22
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Skippy McPants posted:Absolutely. Another thing that's very hard moving from romantic tension to a romantic relationship. Writers are terrified of that transition and the associated risks. There's a reason nearly every film and TV show that has a "will they/won't they" at its center ends the moment the couple is together. Even relatively decent shows like Friends had this issue. The whole will-they-won't-they thing with Ross and Rachel was cute at the beginning but just got annoying near the end. Anybody with 2 working brain cells knew how it would end, but the transition to getting there quickly went from fun and romantic to obnoxious and surreal. I was truly happy with the Starco ending, obvious as it was, because they were a cute, complementary couple. As I mentioned earlier, it was just a pacing issue.
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May 29, 2019 04:42
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Skippy McPants posted:Absolutely. Another thing that's very hard is moving from romantic tension to a romantic relationship. Writers are terrified of that transition and the associated risks. There's a reason nearly every film and TV show that has a "will they/won't they" at its center ends the moment the couple is together. I dunno man, Brooklyn Nine Nine and Parks and Recreation have given me a taste of what it feels like to let characters get together and stay together and continue to develop as people and it tastes pretty amazing. It's actually way more fun and interesting.
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May 29, 2019 05:20
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I dunno man, Brooklyn Nine Nine and Parks and Recreation have given me a taste of what it feels like to let characters get together and stay together and continue to develop as people and it tastes pretty amazing. Yeah. I feel like one of the strengths of svtfoe is that it let its characters have emotionally complicated problems. Compare to say, SU, where the problem is that a character is thinking the Wrong Thing and the solution is to think the Right Thing. The Starco plot did the show a disservice in that Star and Marco were portrayed as perfect soulmates and all their problems stemmed from not being together. I guess it still deserves credit for being one of the very rare romantic subplots that wasn't completely awful.
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May 29, 2019 05:29
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I dunno man, Brooklyn Nine Nine and Parks and Recreation have given me a taste of what it feels like to let characters get together and stay together and continue to develop as people and it tastes pretty amazing. I didn't say it wasn't awesome; I said it was very hard, and also risky.
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May 29, 2019 05:59
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I think my favourite line about will-they-won't-they teases comes from early Big Bang Theory (which I don't hate as much as everyone else seems to) where Penny is talking to Sheldon about how life is unpredictable and they have this exchange: "I mean, look at Leonard and me, we dated for a while, we broke up, we may get back together again, no one knows what's going to happen!" "Oh please, everyone knows what's going to happen..."
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May 29, 2019 07:05
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I like how this show did it. Lots of 'will they, won't they" stories in media are really just one guy pathetically pining for 8 seasons. This did a pretty good job of making it clear early on both like each other and made it more circumstances or other relationships that meant "right now" made it not possible to finally date. There is only a couple times in the show where you can really say "wait, why aren't they dating again?" and the theme is mostly that you can't just drop in out of no where and have everyone drop everything over a crush.
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May 29, 2019 12:42
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It helped a lot that the show never had to contrive reasons for them stay separate. Usually, the problem serialized dramas runs into is that the romantic tension goes on for years longer than anyone intended because the show got more seasons and no one wants to destabilize a popular (and profitable) status quo. If anything they could have done with more time to serve the various subplots, like Macro's relationships with Jackie or his blink-and-you'll-miss-it fling with Kelly.
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May 29, 2019 13:20
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Jackie seems like she wasn't meant to be a story about the relationship. That relationship seemed basically fine. The story was it playing out the standard tv will they won't they. Where it is just marco staring at her from a distance with no actual effort to do anything. Like they didn't paint it as some mistake where marco got punished for daring to like a girl but they didn't paint it as some amazing relationship where marco was right to nod at her every day since kindergarden. Like, it was fine. neither exceptionally good nor bad. It was a normal amount of relationship that marco built up as the end all be all. Again similar to the beach day photo.
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May 29, 2019 13:40
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The framing and story thread was fine, and I agree that it was a good lesson about expectations vs. reality when it comes to crushes. I'm more talking about how there's a beat or two missing between when they start dating and when Macro goes jetting off to Mewni. It was a hallmark of his relationships that they happened in fast-motion to make more room for Star's drama. And as I said up thread, that's is okay because she is the main character, but it still woulda been nice to have more time to flesh out more of the secondary and tertiary relationships.
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May 29, 2019 13:50
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I feel like extending the jackie stuff after they are dating would have had to either go into some bad punish or reward marco type thing that didn't fit. He built up jackie his whole life and then finally got the confidence to speak to her and she's fine. The relationship was totally fine and nothing special. It was happy while it lasted but didn't last long. And that seems better than having to go real hyperbolic into teaching marco a lesson that he was stupid and wrong and it was awful to want something but it also wasn't some perfect everything is good now conclusion after years of building it up. It was just a regular relationship like anyone in highschool might have.
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May 29, 2019 14:15
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It was pretty obvious that they had no cohesive plans for what to do with season 4. They set up plot threads with no payouts, they did payouts without really having setups, they introduced concepts only to shut them down immediately, and they really failed to meaningfully develop the conclusion that they were headed towards (the magical high commission as villains worthy of execution, "magic" as the root of all evil, Moon having any direct criticisms of Eclipsa). The biggest thing that I would directly call a "mistake" is doing the epilogue early with Ponyhead just making stuff up that may or may not be true. They could've just taken the time they allotted for that, moved it to the end, and done a little epilogue scene running through the newly merged world and seeing all the other characters. Tom and Star's breakup seemed realistic enough, they had all the chemistry of Anakin and Padme. I feel like the writers could've managed a going steady romance on the show, but I get it, they wanted to use momentum from shipping more than anything else.
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May 29, 2019 16:50
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Over the whole run of the show did magic ever actually do anything good except fix problems magic caused?
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May 29, 2019 17:45
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Over the whole run of the show did magic ever actually do anything good except fix problems magic caused? It stopped Toffee. Maybe monster Meteora too, it wasn't clear if her eye beams were magic or not. It also brought the protagonists together, created all those wacky lovable spells who we had 3 episodes about, merged the dimensions at the end... pretty much the only bad things it did were the spells Solaria made. Basically the whole run of the show was leading up to the opposite conclusion, but they decided to go with "blow up magic" anyway.
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May 29, 2019 18:34
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