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steinrokkan posted:What bad record? An intern who made a bad tweet? Several bad tweets, one of which being from a completely different part of the company.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:55
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CascadeBeta posted:This kind of argument would continue even after the game has come out and there's no trans characters. "Oh well maybe one of the main characters is trans and we just don't know!" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 13, 2019 17:00
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Firebert posted:Visibly transgender characters in a setting with advanced and ubiquitous biotech/cybertech makes very little sense to me, unless that character is a luddite tbh. If this was 2020 then sure, but in 2077 even the poorest people would have the means to genemod or augment themselves to look however they want In that case, the existence of the poster doesn't make sense either. You can't argue "Oh well, in The Future there are so many people with swingin' dicks and bangin' tits that they're a viable marketing demographic and this poster is just a commonplace example of using sex to sell a product and not weird fetishism." and then simultaneously say "Oh but cybertech and surgery is so good that you can't tell anyone's not cisgender!" Like, if that's a big enough demographic for corporations to profit by pandering to them, then there should in fact be characters who look like the model visible somewhere among the random background NPCs.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:01
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e.: nvm
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Jun 13, 2019 17:01
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:There's also the whole, 'modifying your body inextricably pushes you further away from being an empathetic and rational person.' Which is obviously part of the source material, but not exactly endearing either. Oh come on. They meant adding like cyberguns or other poo poo like dermal armor, etc. Not changing genders. Lore or mechanically it's not suggested anywhere that changing sexes will cause you to become disconnected. It's adding weird biomechanical parts.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:02
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:There's also the whole, 'modifying your body inextricably pushes you further away from being an empathetic and rational person.' Which is obviously part of the source material, but not exactly endearing either. It's specifically chrome and exotic biosculpts (i.e. stuff like the furry biosculpts), sexual characteristics would be within the subset of poo poo that incurs no effect whatsoever on humanity. quote:Isn't that more of a Shadowrun thing and specifically wrt cybernetics? It's a lot more shadowrun, yeah, especially considering cyberpunk 2e's core rules even includes rules to recover from even the heaviest mods with therapy while Shadowrun basically treats essence like your soul.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:04
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:There's also the whole, 'modifying your body inextricably pushes you further away from being an empathetic and rational person.' Which is obviously part of the source material, but not exactly endearing either. i think this depends on the explanation "you have literally replaced large chunks of your brain with computer parts" is an ok reason for the whole losing humanity trope, but when it's just some vague "all technology bad" stuff that sucks
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Jun 13, 2019 17:04
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gary oldmans diary posted:Nothing is acceptable to you and (based on nothing) no good things will be done by CDPR, your sworn enemy. They hired a guy who seemed like he would be a good community manager at first, but he hosed up, people demanded he got fired, and he got fired. Now CDPR has a "history" and beyond that guy getting fired you are "owed" and must troll them online to get your holy vengeance. You dangle a carrot in the conversation that if people can scrounge from nothing some proof that CDPR is pro-trans they will have "earned" the right to use the concept of transgender people, but you only do this to prolong the go-nowhere discussion and tank the thread. i cant believe that mad SJWs are trying to destroy small indie developer CD Project Red over absolutely nothing!!!!!! what about free spee
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Jun 13, 2019 17:06
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, I'm sure the artist is a terrible bigot. CrowdControl posted:A guy tweeteted the "dont assume thier gender" "joke" and was fired for it after they took heat for it. it was three twitter(one of the biggest social media platforms since you apparently dont know) messages and they only fired the guy after months of media outrage and speaking of track records, cdpr makes games where you collect cards of women you sleep with so yeah i think its pretty easy to think there’s something going on at that company Raged posted:Both sides in here are bad I can tell you that. yeah man, people not wanting to be discriminated against are the real evil here
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Jun 13, 2019 17:06
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If you've played any cyberpunk tabletop game like 2020 or shadowrun it's definitely NOT about changing genders but rather replacing huge swathes of your physiology with cybernetics, like carving pieces of your brain so that it coordinates with your fast twitch muscles or some bullshit faster. To suggest that it has anything to do with trans issues is absolutely absurd. You would never get a malus from changing genders in the table top.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:06
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The_White_Crane posted:In that case, the existence of the poster doesn't make sense either. Disagree. The poster makes perfect sense in the world described by the quoted. The point of the ad is that big corporations are not only exploitive in their advertising intentions, but tone def as well. That's exactly how our media operates today and it makes sense that it would continue. The ad is not supposed to be good. But it is also not supposed to represent how trans people are actually portrayed in the game. And the interview with the art director I posted above states as much.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:07
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gary oldmans diary posted:Nothing is acceptable to you and (based on nothing) no good things will be done by CDPR, your sworn enemy. They hired a guy who seemed like he would be a good community manager at first, but he hosed up, people demanded he got fired, and he got fired. Now CDPR has a "history" and beyond that guy getting fired you are "owed" and must troll them online to get your holy vengeance. You dangle a carrot in the conversation that if people can scrounge from nothing some proof that CDPR is pro-trans they will have "earned" the right to use the concept of transgender people, but you only do this to prolong the go-nowhere discussion and tank the thread. besides all their previous games cdpr has no track record of horrible poo poo i agree
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Jun 13, 2019 17:07
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This thread is kind of like a 24/7 sports news cycle during an offseason. When there is nothing to really talk about even the littlest thing is huge drama talked about for weeks. Well, "littlest thing" to me. I understand this is a big deal for affected/offended people worried about how they're being portrayed. But nothing about this gender representation conversation is going to change until more is revealed about the game. This has turned into just arguing in a loop. I think I'll come back to this thread after the demo in August.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:07
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Transhumanism and it's impact on your rational and emotional mind are extremely commonplace themes in science fiction, have been since forever, and are honestly probably part of why the Waichovskis were finally able to make their transitions. Saying whether or not something can be dehumanizing is not the same thing as insisting that it is dehumanizing. Altered Carbon, The Matrix, Bicentenial Man, Deus Ex, hell even Star Trek handles this. Almost all beloved science fiction has some format of transhuman modification, because it's viewed as inevitable in technologically progressive society.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:08
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Themage posted:it was three twitter(one of the biggest social media platforms since you apparently dont know) messages and they only fired the guy after months of media outrage and speaking of track records, cdpr makes games where you collect cards of women you sleep with so yeah i think its pretty easy to think there’s something going on at that company Also it was *separate people* who made the tweets (the CDPR guy is different from the GOG guy) and I'm pretty sure the CDPR guy still works there.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:08
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Glenn Quebec posted:If you've played any cyberpunk tabletop game like 2020 or shadowrun it's definitely NOT about changing genders but rather replacing huge swathes of your physiology with cybernetics, like carving pieces of your brain so that it coordinates with your fast twitch muscles or some bullshit faster. you would in shadowrun as long as it involes cybernetics, from what i remember of that world any mechanical alteration of the body more or less saps your soul
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Jun 13, 2019 17:08
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Considering the enviromnent in this game I'm just going to say someone who gets angry at trans rep in the form of people who are arguably petty criminals isn't going to be satisfied Also the ad made sense as a way to use sex to sell poo poo, she mostly just looks "explicitly trans" outside a narrow subset of people overstating their transdar because of the dick
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Jun 13, 2019 17:10
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Pylons posted:Also it was *separate people* who made the tweets (the CDPR guy is different from the GOG guy) and I'm pretty sure the CDPR guy still works there. Really? Lmao
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Jun 13, 2019 17:10
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FWIW I do think that purchasing and installing retractable blades that come out of my forearms and allow me to become a praying mantis monster who can immediately eviscerate anyone within evisceration range might cause me to lose touch with my sense of humanity
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Jun 13, 2019 17:10
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RottenK posted:you would in shadowrun as long as it involes cybernetics, from what i remember of that world any mechanical alteration of the body more or less saps your soul 4e removed the bioware index altogether so now you lose essence for literally every mod (in 4e you lose the highest of the two essence penalty between your total bioware and cyberware; in 5e you lose the total of both). The cyberelfgame won't even let you do the biological stuff anymore without beating you over the head with sanctity of the soul bullshit.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:13
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chaosapiant posted:Disagree. The poster makes perfect sense in the world described by the quoted. The point of the ad is that big corporations are not only exploitive in their advertising intentions, but tone def as well. That's exactly how our media operates today and it makes sense that it would continue. The ad is not supposed to be good. But it is also not supposed to represent how trans people are actually portrayed in the game. And the interview with the art director I posted above states as much. The Article You Linked posted:Redesiuk said that the world of Cyberpunk 2077 includes many people who are gender-nonconforming, some of whom enjoy showing off their bodies in public. They are a demographic group with significant purchasing power, and so, megacorporations use their likenesses to sell soft drinks. It’s supposed to be a play on the same sort of hypersexualized advertising that modern companies use to sell products today, just brought in line with the kind of future CD Projekt wants to portray. Funnily; there are many of them, some of whom enjoy showing off their bodies in public, a large enough group to have significant purchasing power, and yet when people in this thread ask "where in the stuff we've seen is there trans rep besides the fetish poster" the response everyone gives is "maybe they all look so cis you can't tell". Because none of these "many gender non-conforming people" actually exist in the game based on what we've been shown. And yes, we've only been shown a small slice, that's true. But if they were as common as that article you linked implies, we would have seen some.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:13
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RottenK posted:you would in shadowrun as long as it involes cybernetics, from what i remember of that world any mechanical alteration of the body more or less saps your soul I double dog dare you to find me, where, in the games manual, you would get a penalty for changing sexes. It's not there because it would be treated as any other in-game medical procedure which would cause downtime to heal. Biomods, cybernetics etc. Only incur the essence hit when it's something like enhanced pheromones or blade arms. Not gender change. This is some disingenuous poo poo.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:14
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Pattonesque posted:FWIW I do think that purchasing and installing retractable blades that come out of my forearms and allow me to become a praying mantis monster who can immediately eviscerate anyone within evisceration range might cause me to lose touch with my sense of humanity When you have praying mantis blades in your arms, everything starts to look like a prey insect.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:14
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Agnosticnixie posted:Considering the enviromnent in this game I'm just going to say someone who gets angry at trans rep in the form of people who are arguably petty criminals isn't going to be satisfied I'm not going to be upset if trans people aren't portrayed as angels or some dumb poo poo. I want real trans characters who have flaws and who grow. I want us to be visible as people, not a token minority as part of a thinly veiled inclusion attempt.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:15
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The_White_Crane posted:In that case, the existence of the poster doesn't make sense either. How do we know that the woman in the poster isn't a cis woman who just had a big honking dick installed for the gently caress of it? The tech of 2077 means you can swap body parts on a whim like you're Mr. Potato Head!
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Jun 13, 2019 17:15
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Agnosticnixie posted:Considering the enviromnent in this game I'm just going to say someone who gets angry at trans rep in the form of people who are arguably petty criminals isn't going to be satisfied maybe you should listen to the trans people in this very thread that do not like that ad
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Jun 13, 2019 17:16
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steinrokkan posted:What bad record? An intern who made a bad tweet? It wasn’t an intern.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:17
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Pattonesque posted:FWIW I do think that purchasing and installing retractable blades that come out of my forearms and allow me to become a praying mantis monster who can immediately eviscerate anyone within evisceration range might cause me to lose touch with my sense of humanity
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Jun 13, 2019 17:17
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Glenn Quebec posted:I double dog dare you to find me, where, in the games manual, you would get a penalty for changing sexes. It's not there because it would be treated as any other in-game medical procedure which would cause downtime to heal. Shadowrun 4e, Augmentations, which contradicts the core rule about biomods despite giving a description of srs that's literally unchanged from the tech that exists today in the real 2010s. They changed it to some stupid butterfly chrysalis metaphor in 5e when people told them it was a stupid change to make.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:17
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gary oldmans diary posted:Once you start killing lower and lower rungs of criminals and find yourself stalking a guy you saw jay-walking it becomes difficult to establish trust for meaningful relationships and eventually you give up on them altogether. I say this as a person with retractable arm blades. Did you ever ask for that?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:19
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Glenn Quebec posted:I double dog dare you to find me, where, in the games manual, you would get a penalty for changing sexes. It's not there because it would be treated as any other in-game medical procedure which would cause downtime to heal. ??? i explicitly said that it would hit your humanity if it involved cybernetics, because cybernetics in shadowrun actually do damage to your soul. i assume a technologically advanced world like shadowrun's probably has ways to change sexes without putting mechanical body parts into yourself, which, as you said, would be just a medical procedure with some time to heal. if shadowrun has a minimum treshold of mechanical stuff you can put into your body before it starts being a bad thing then i guess i missed that, because as far as i know any cyber parts do a hit to your essence
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Jun 13, 2019 17:20
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Themage posted:maybe you should listen to the trans people in this very thread that do not like that ad I'm one of the trans people, I side-eyed the ad until the interview with the art director, I've talked about it with friends in my nearly exclusively queer circle. A whole lot of the continuing discourse is concern trolling and actual misrepresentations of what mainstream media transphobia tends to be.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:21
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Agnosticnixie posted:I'm one of the trans people, I side-eyed the ad until the interview with the art director, I've talked about it with friends in my nearly exclusively queer circle. A whole lot of the continuing discourse is concern trolling and actual misrepresentations of what mainstream media transphobia tends to be. How is wanting meaningful inclusion in a game that is supposedly inclusive concern trolling?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:22
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speaking of shadowrun, was Shadowrun Hong Kong good i really liked Dragonfall
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Jun 13, 2019 17:23
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El_Elegante posted:Did you ever ask for that?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:23
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Themage posted:maybe you should listen to the trans people in this very thread that do not like that ad I'm another one of the trans people in this thread, and my trans friends and I think that the explanation CDPR gave for the ad was totally acceptable and that the ad is fine.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:23
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Agnosticnixie posted:I'm one of the trans people, I side-eyed the ad until the interview with the art director, I've talked about it with friends in my nearly exclusively queer circle. A whole lot of the continuing discourse is concern trolling and actual misrepresentations of what mainstream media transphobia tends to be. Okay? there are plenty that dont feel the same as you wrt the ad, trans folk in my circle are incredibly pissed off at the exploitative poo poo cdpr is doing
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Jun 13, 2019 17:25
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RottenK posted:speaking of shadowrun, was Shadowrun Hong Kong good It was fantastic.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:26
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Pussy Cartel posted:I'm another one of the trans people in this thread, and my trans friends and I think that the explanation CDPR gave for the ad was totally acceptable and that the ad is fine. again, just because you dont find it offensive doesnt mean everyone feels the same
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Jun 13, 2019 17:26
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RottenK posted:speaking of shadowrun, was Shadowrun Hong Kong good Hong Kong was good, I guess some people might be iffy over your boss. Like Dragonfall your home neighborhood has a lot of fun interactions and I think it has the best run of the series. quote:How is wanting meaningful inclusion in a game that is supposedly inclusive concern trolling? Meaningful inclusion in the underworld is going to include people of that underworld, so like at least given the reaction to the idea of a trans drug dealer from the previous demo I'm apprehensive that meaningful inclusion in that world might not be received amazingly well. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 17:26
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