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RottenK posted:speaking of shadowrun, was Shadowrun Hong Kong good Yes, the gameplay is better, the main narrative is not as great but the missions are a little more varied and fun. I absolutely recommend it if you liked dragonfall.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:27
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gary oldmans diary posted:Once you start killing lower and lower rungs of criminals and find yourself stalking a guy you saw jay-walking it becomes difficult to establish trust for meaningful relationships and eventually you give up on them altogether. I say this as a person with retractable arm blades. really the number of people you kill in pretty much any action RPG would make you some kind of post-morality revenant creature, retractable armblades or no people start to see things differently after a military tour of duty where they kill a few people. what kind of monster would you be after the eight hundredth time *that week* you've shot someone in the head? if anything it should really add some difficulty checks to the romances.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:27
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chaosapiant posted:I think that was taken way out of proportion though. They showed some raytracing screenshots of a couple of signs and you had to really zoom in just to see that one of those signs was depicting a trans character. It's very possible that was the intention, but it doesn't jive with me. It seems more likely that CDPR/Nvidia were just looking for some good screenshots of the raytracing in effect and just went with the first good ones they saw. CDPR has told us in their own marketing material—which includes secret messages that you can extract—that they know that every screen they are going to share is going to be dissected by a ravenous fan base. CDPR knows they are building hype and slow drip releasing content to keep us enthralled until release in 2020. When asked about it, the art director who made it claims to have thought carefully about the ad and what it means. quote:“Personally, for me, this person is sexy,” Redesiuk said. “I like how this person looks. However, this model is used — their beautiful body is used — for corporate reasons. They are displayed there just as a thing, and that’s the terrible part of it.” I don't know what the 'correct' proportion is to blow things into, but you don't get to argue that they are immune from criticism because this wasn't really something they were paying attention to.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:27
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It seems you can't really win though, since the trans community is divided itself and has no clear idea of what is and isnt ok
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Jun 13, 2019 17:27
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the art director seems well-intentioned but i'm not inclined to trust cdpr as a wholeAgnosticnixie posted:I'm one of the trans people, I side-eyed the ad until the interview with the art director, I've talked about it with friends in my nearly exclusively queer circle. A whole lot of the continuing discourse is concern trolling and actual misrepresentations of what mainstream media transphobia tends to be. thank you arbiter of what is and isn't transphobia
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Jun 13, 2019 17:27
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Collapsing Farts posted:It seems you can't really win though, since the trans community is divided itself and has no clear idea of what is and isnt ok it's almost like minorities as a whole find it hard to agree on the more minute things of what is and isn't discrimination because we all come from different backgrounds
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Jun 13, 2019 17:28
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doingitwrong posted:CDPR has told us in their own marketing material—which includes secret messages that you can extract—that they know that every screen they are going to share is going to be dissected by a ravenous fan base. CDPR knows they are building hype and slow drip releasing content to keep us enthralled until release in 2020. It’s a good thing I never made that argument then. 
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Jun 13, 2019 17:29
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Themage posted:Okay? there are plenty that dont feel the same as you wrt the ad, trans folk in my circle are incredibly pissed off at the exploitative poo poo cdpr is doing I mean if the in game version of Coca-Cola using a pin-up trans girl to sell sugar water is enough to get you and your friends incredibly pissed off, you might wanna just sit this game out all together, because if 2077 stays true enough to the source material then that's just gonna be the tip of a very, very big ice berg.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:29
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Aurora posted:it's almost like minorities as a whole find it hard to agree on the more minute things of what is and isn't discrimination because we all come from different backgrounds Maybe none of us should be making statements about whether something contentious is definitively or objectively transphobic, then.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:30
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I mean if the in game version of Coca-Cola using a pin-up trans girl to sell sugar water is enough to get you and your friends incredibly pissed off, you might wanna just sit this game out all together, because if 2077 stays true enough to the source material then that's just gonna be the tip of a very, very big ice berg. or cdpr could not use harmful stereotypes to fake woke sell a game
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Jun 13, 2019 17:31
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Aurora posted:thank you arbiter of what is and isn't transphobia What about the other people doing the same thing, from the other side of the argument? What makes them the arbiters, that the unoffended trans people lack?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:31
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Aurora posted:the art director seems well-intentioned but i'm not inclined to trust cdpr as a whole We're all arbiters.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:32
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Pussy Cartel posted:Maybe none of us should be making statements about whether something contentious is definitively or objectively transphobic, then. Schubalts posted:What about the other people doing the same thing, from the other side of the argument? What makes them the arbiters, that the unoffended trans people lack? presumably these people are coming from a position where they view it as hurtful as their own point of view and people going 'actually it's totally fine' is a bit more demeaning than the people upset by this arguing about it
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Jun 13, 2019 17:33
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Hey guys, does it matter at all that the ad makes complete sense in the setting? Does that... matter?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:33
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Pylons posted:Games are political. Agnosticnixie posted:ngl Amanda Lear isn't the greatest example because rumors that she was a specific person in the Paris cabaret scene before changing names to Amanda Lear have abounded since the 70s. I just unironically enjoy disco music. Themage posted:again, just because you dont find it offensive doesnt mean everyone feels the same 
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Jun 13, 2019 17:34
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Schubalts posted:What about the other people doing the same thing, from the other side of the argument? What makes them the arbiters, that the unoffended trans people lack? Because who ever is the most upset is also the most right. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 13, 2019 17:34
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Because who ever is the most upset is also the most right. these comments are really helpful, thank you.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:34
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Aurora posted:presumably these people are coming from a position where they view it as hurtful as their own point of view and people going 'actually it's totally fine' is a bit more demeaning than the people upset by this arguing about it I'm personally upset that my perspective as a trans person gets dismissed because it's somehow insufficiently or improperly trans compared to those of others.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:34
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Pussy Cartel posted:I'm personally upset that my perspective as a trans person gets dismissed because it's somehow insufficiently or improperly trans compared to those of others. did i imply this or is this what someone else said
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Jun 13, 2019 17:35
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Pussy Cartel posted:I'm personally upset that my perspective as a trans person gets dismissed because it's somehow insufficiently or improperly trans compared to those of others. And I'm loving upset that my perspective as a trans person is dismissed as concern trolling, so I guess it's just a two way street then.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:36
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D. Ebdrup posted:Who, besides Ubisoft, are saying they aren't? dunno, the vast majority of social media posts are definitely anti-terrible ad, with only dumb gamers being for it really makes you think
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Jun 13, 2019 17:36
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Themage posted:again, just because you dont find it offensive doesnt mean everyone feels the same
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Jun 13, 2019 17:36
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Aurora posted:thank you arbiter of what is and isn't transphobia wow talk about arguing in bad faith Aurora
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Jun 13, 2019 17:36
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Pussy Cartel posted:I'm personally upset that my perspective as a trans person gets dismissed because it's somehow insufficiently or improperly trans compared to those of others. Yeah I think the fact that this thread has also been filled with so much saying "well they should ask transgender people on how to do actually do representation right" has some kind of hosed-up implications in regards to trans people who thinks the poster is fine
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Jun 13, 2019 17:37
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glad to hear its good, thanks for the responses
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Jun 13, 2019 17:37
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Zaphod42 posted:wow talk about arguing in bad faith Aurora i know, right?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:37
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gary oldmans diary posted:Hey guys, does it matter at all that the ad makes complete sense in the setting? Does that... matter? Apply that line of thought to the Turner Diaries or the Gor books. Internal consistency isn’t sufficient to make it ok.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:38
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Aurora posted:did i imply this or is this what someone else said RazzleDazzleHour posted:Yeah I think the fact that this thread has also been filled with so much saying "well they should ask transgender people on how to do actually do representation right" has some kind of hosed-up implications in regards to trans people who thinks the poster is fine Basically.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:38
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Aurora posted:presumably these people are coming from a position where they view it as hurtful as their own point of view and people going 'actually it's totally fine' is a bit more demeaning than the people upset by this arguing about it "I thought about it and talked to my friends and we thought it was okay" isn't telling other people their opinions are wrong. Stop with this spin.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:38
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gary oldmans diary posted:Yeah dude, way to chide him for stating his own opinion. Let him know that yours overrules his. lmao shut the gently caress up chud, if people find it offensive you dont get to decide if it matters
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Jun 13, 2019 17:38
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gary oldmans diary posted:Hey guys, does it matter at all that the ad makes complete sense in the setting? Does that... matter? "The Game's Art Director posted:Redesiuk said that the world of Cyberpunk 2077 includes many people who are gender-nonconforming, some of whom enjoy showing off their bodies in public. They are a demographic group with significant purchasing power, and so, megacorporations use their likenesses to sell soft drinks. It’s supposed to be a play on the same sort of hypersexualized advertising that modern companies use to sell products today, just brought in line with the kind of future CD Projekt wants to portray. The_White_Crane posted:Funnily; there are many of them, some of whom enjoy showing off their bodies in public, a large enough group to have significant purchasing power, and yet when people in this thread ask "where in the stuff we've seen is there trans rep besides the fetish poster" the response everyone gives is "maybe they all look so cis you can't tell". It would make sense if we were seeing footage of a game where the statement that gender non-conforming people were common was actually true. But the footage we've seen doesn't bear that out.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:41
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Pussy Cartel posted:Basically. i don't think the basic statement of 'i don't think this is in good taste and don't like it' invalidates your experience or opinion but everyone has been very personal about the argument about whether it is or isn't okay Zaphod42 posted:"I thought about it and talked to my friends and we thought it was okay" isn't telling other people their opinions are wrong. Stop with this spin. this is an A-grade cherry pick
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Jun 13, 2019 17:42
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Themage posted:lmao shut the gently caress up chud, if people find it offensive you dont get to decide if it matters E: I just noticed you tried to overrule me, too. All hail your opinions above all others. gary oldmans diary fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 17:43
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Aurora posted:i don't think the basic statement of 'i don't think this is in good taste and don't like it' invalidates your experience or opinion but everyone has been very personal about the argument about whether it is or isn't okay There's been a pretty clear pattern in this thread where people will declare this ad transphobic, defer to trans people in the thread as being arbiters, and then gloss over those of us that don't think it's that bad. Repeated in an endless loop like every argument in this thread.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:45
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The_White_Crane posted:It would make sense if we were seeing footage of a game where the statement that gender non-conforming people were common was actually true. What exactly is the litmus here? Should they wear a badge or something?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:45
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Themage posted:dunno, the vast majority of social media posts are definitely anti-terrible ad, with only dumb gamers being for it
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Jun 13, 2019 17:45
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Noam Chomsky posted:Eh, if you want to figure out how to represent trans people in media you can just reach out to them and ask what they'd like to see. This may come as a surprise to you but trans people, just like any other group of people, are not a monolith. As we can see in this very thread.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:45
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Themage posted:or cdpr could not use harmful stereotypes to fake woke sell a game Aurora posted:presumably these people are coming from a position where they view it as hurtful as their own point of view and people going 'actually it's totally fine' is a bit more demeaning than the people upset by this arguing about it Again and again, it's the same arguments. Because some put something questionable/bad into a video game, it must mean whoever is responsible most believe in said questionable/bad thing 100%. Artist makes an ad that fetishizes trans people in a way that would totally exist in Night City, which must mean he/she sees trans people as nothing more then objects to fetishize. Game designer puts massive amounts of violence, armed robbery and drug dealing/use into a game, then ho boy does that person have some fun views on what a good Saturday Night must be. Writer makes a character that is misogynistic to a ridiculous point? Uhh can you say "incel"? (or vice versa, and replace incel with femnazi) I know, people are on edge with CDPR after the twitter fiasco, but if that never happened I guarantee most of the people upset about this ad would still be pissed, because everyone seems to fail to grasp the idea of exploring uncomfortable ideas and situations in video games. Especially in ways that aren't clear cut/one sided. Not everything can be Wolfenstien where you hear the phase "nazi scum" five thousand times over the course of 3 hours of gameplay and about 800 mangled nazi corpses.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:46
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Aurora posted:this is an A-grade cherry pick Its literally the comment you were responding to from last page!
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Jun 13, 2019 17:47
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Maybe we can make a thread discussing possible plot points, game mechanics, etc.? I do believe that there is a space talking about trans representation in this game but it's rather overwhelming with some very vehement people. I'd do it but, awful app will awful app.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:47
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