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The_White_Crane posted:It would make sense if we were seeing footage of a game where the statement that gender non-conforming people were common was actually true.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:47
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CascadeBeta fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 17:48
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Wow! Keanu Reeves. That game looks fun. I wonder if I'll get to turn my entire head into robot parts.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:48
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CascadeBeta posted:You literally called me a concern troll because I thought the ad was lovely absent of other meaningful trans people in the game. You don't get to have it both ways. I think you're mixing me up with agnosticnixie now.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:49
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Again and again, it's the same arguments. Because some put something questionable/bad into a video game, it must mean whoever is responsible most believe in said questionable/bad thing 100%. Artist makes an ad that fetishizes trans people in a way that would totally exist in Night City, which must mean he/she sees trans people as nothing more then objects to fetishize. Game designer puts massive amounts of violence, armed robbery and drug dealing/use into a game, then ho boy does that person have some fun views on what a good Saturday Night must be. Writer makes a character that is misogynistic to a ridiculous point? Uhh can you say "incel"? (or vice versa, and replace incel with femnazi) The short way of saying that is "depiction isn't condoning" which is an important detail people miss. Game of Thrones is not necessarily pro-rape. That said, it isn't a get out of jail free card either. The rape in GOT was at times pretty exploitative. And so too this ad could make sense in the context of the setting, but it could still be a bad idea, especially with all the trans rights issues going on in the real world right now. Our media do influence how we think about things. But even then it isn't clear, depicting trans people being oppressed could itself be a pro-trans message, "look at how bad this is, don't let our society become like this", etc. But then, is a videogame necessarily the right place to do that? Games are so complicated, so hard to control things exactly right. The player has influence on so much of how it gets experienced, which is part of what makes games uniquely powerful sometimes, but... But this is too complex an issue for goons who are shouting past each other. We're not gonna get anywhere. This thread is gonna be pretty toxic until we get another gameplay trailer 
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Jun 13, 2019 17:49
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skulgun or refund
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Jun 13, 2019 17:49
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Aren’t there private discords or ‘chans out there where people congregate for the express purpose of saying whatever they want to a supportive audience?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:49
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Pussy Cartel posted:I think you're mixing me up with agnosticnixie now. Well don't I look stupid now.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:49
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gary oldmans diary posted:That person said their opinion and you tried to overrule it. Clearly you are a person that enjoys being offensive, though, so go to town. hey guess what, not all opinions are equal. especially not ones that defend discrimination like yours you chud
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Jun 13, 2019 17:50
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Pussy Cartel posted:There's been a pretty clear pattern in this thread where people will declare this ad transphobic, defer to trans people in the thread as being arbiters, and then gloss over those of us that don't think it's that bad. Repeated in an endless loop like every argument in this thread. i've only been reading fairly recently and only really been reading the arguments between the people who have said they're trans - that's mostly what i've been talking about when i talk about the argument, so i don't really have anything i can say about the general consensus of the thread ignoring you. like i said i think the ad is a little skeevy even with the art director interview, but that doesn't like, invalidate how you feel about it? both the people who aren't fine with it and the people who are fine with it need to stop dismissing each other, more or less
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Jun 13, 2019 17:51
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Again and again, it's the same arguments. Because some put something questionable/bad into a video game, it must mean whoever is responsible most believe in said questionable/bad thing 100%. Artist makes an ad that fetishizes trans people in a way that would totally exist in Night City, which must mean he/she sees trans people as nothing more then objects to fetishize. Game designer puts massive amounts of violence, armed robbery and drug dealing/use into a game, then ho boy does that person have some fun views on what a good Saturday Night must be. Writer makes a character that is misogynistic to a ridiculous point? Uhh can you say "incel"? (or vice versa, and replace incel with femnazi) Point out the meaningful trans characters shown so far, please. Also lmao equating incels and "feminazis" gently caress off with that.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:51
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guess i shouldnt be mad at hitler either for killing one of my great grandparents, that would overrule his opinion that it was the right thing to do (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 13, 2019 17:52
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Themage posted:guess i shouldnt be mad at hitler either for killing one of my great grandparents, that would overrule his opinion that it was the right thing to do Sincerely, what the gently caress are you talking about
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Jun 13, 2019 17:53
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Jonah Galtberg posted:This may come as a surprise to you but trans people, just like any other group of people, are not a monolith. As we can see in this very thread. I'm aware of that. I should have been more clear in my post. My point was that CDProjekt, and other studios, should reach out to the trans community concerning representation in their game(s) and make it clear to the wider gaming community that they received input from trans people during development. Being able to say "Hey, [trans person] was a narrative/creative/development consultant on this game" does a lot to mitigate any potential controversy around something like the "chromanticure" poster. The poster itself isn't separate from the context in which it was created and included in the game. I have no strong opinions on the poster itself, as a cis-het white male. I just think if you're going to put it and similar in your game you may want to include some trans people in the discussion, not that I know for sure that they haven't.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:53
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Themage posted:guess i shouldnt be mad at hitler either for killing one of my great grandparents, that would overrule his opinion that it was the right thing to do taking this a bit too far here bud
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Jun 13, 2019 17:54
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Glenn Quebec posted:Sincerely, what the gently caress are you talking about oh look its the racist guy, maybe try reading the thread
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Jun 13, 2019 17:54
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Themage posted:hey guess what, not all opinions are equal. especially not ones that defend discrimination like yours you chud Ok, my dude, you're kinda toxic. You're not "ok" with people having other opinions than yours and discussions having both a back and a forth.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:54
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Peacoffee posted:Aren’t there private discords or ‘chans out there where people congregate for the express purpose of saying whatever they want to a supportive audience? It's called Leftbook Noam Chomsky posted:I'm aware of that. I should have been more clear in my post. If the level of vitriol being thrown around between the trans people in this thread is anything to go by I don't think this would do much to help anything besides getting a bunch of trans people accused of being self-loathing bigots or whatever
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Jun 13, 2019 17:55
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RottenK posted:taking this a bit too far here bud why? clearly it doesnt matter that a lot of people find the ad offensive, that would overrule someone elses opinion
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Jun 13, 2019 17:56
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Themage posted:oh look its the racist guy, maybe try reading the thread 
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Jun 13, 2019 17:56
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But really how does Hitler killing your great granddad have any bearing on trans representation in this game
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Jun 13, 2019 17:57
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In cyber punk aren't there people who have replaced most of there body with machines?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:57
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Pussy Cartel posted:There's been a pretty clear pattern in this thread where people will declare this ad transphobic, defer to trans people in the thread as being arbiters, and then gloss over those of us that don't think it's that bad. Repeated in an endless loop like every argument in this thread. CascadeBeta posted:Point out the meaningful trans characters shown so far, please. For what it's worth I think you both share a lot of common ground and the nuances of both of your arguments are getting lost in the noise. Really it just seems to come down to how much benefit of the doubt you're willing to give CDPR at this point, and therefore how comfortable you are with them illustrating the "dark side" of social acceptance. I think when the game is released and we discover how many trans npcs are in the game and how they are portrayed, you will probably end up in agreement as to whether this poster is acceptable in that context.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:57
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I don't like their bland rear end games but the last couple hundred posts perfectly justify Ubisofts stance on anything controversial.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:58
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gary oldmans diary posted:So that transperson isn't as qualified to have opinions as you. And you've discerned my political beliefs because I think a poster can make perfect sense in a game setting and I believe a story can be set just about anywhere, even a place as foreign as Cyberpunk's hopefully is? i mean going by your post history its pretty easy to see what your political beliefs are(a chud). and lmao tell me more about how all opinions are equal
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Jun 13, 2019 17:58
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Noam Chomsky posted:My point was that CDProjekt, and other studios, should reach out to the trans community concerning representation in their game(s) and make it clear to the wider gaming community that they received input from trans people during development. I think if the devs came forward and said "hey we actually did ask [trans person] about this poster and they said they thought it was okay" I don't think all the trans people in this thread who find the poster gross would suddenly be okay with it
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Jun 13, 2019 17:58
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am0kgonzo posted:I don't like their bland rear end games but the last couple hundred posts perfectly justify Ubisofts stance on anything controversial. 
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Jun 13, 2019 17:58
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CascadeBeta posted:Point out the meaningful trans characters shown so far, please. I mean the fact that a trans person was shown as a drug peddler was enough to get you upset tells me that's not gonna be possible. Nevermind this is a setting where how we currently identify trans people barely even exists, in Cyberpunk any treatment needed could be done with a weeks wages and a few hours to recover. And I seeing incel thrown around about as much as the other side throws around femnazi these days so yeah I'm sticking by that.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:58
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Themage posted:i mean going by your post history its pretty easy to see what your political beliefs are(a chud). and lmao tell me more about how all opinions are equal Please tell me how Hitler killing your granddad pertains to trans rights in cyberpunk 2020
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Jun 13, 2019 17:59
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Orange Crush Rush posted:And I seeing incel thrown around about as much as the other side throws around femnazi these days so yeah I'm sticking by that. one of these things is not like the other
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Jun 13, 2019 17:59
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Glenn Quebec posted:But really how does Hitler killing your great granddad have any bearing on trans representation in this game gently caress off sealion
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Jun 13, 2019 18:00
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“People have a right to their opinion” “My family was killed by people who dehumanized minorities” “Lol, bit of a reach there, don’t get it” If you mention things in contexts people will just pretend you’ve tried to change the topic
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Jun 13, 2019 18:00
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FYI there are literally only 5-6 posters you need to put on ignore for this thread to go back to being good
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Jun 13, 2019 18:00
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Aurora posted:one of these things is not like the other You are totally right, but people are turning incel into the next "cuck", "chud" or "libtard", just some nonsense word people throw out at the drop of a hat to win an argument.
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Jun 13, 2019 18:01
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Themage posted:i mean going by your post history its pretty easy to see what your political beliefs are(a chud). and lmao tell me more about how all opinions are equal
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Jun 13, 2019 18:01
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Themage posted:gently caress off sealion I don't know what sealion is supposed to mean nor do I know what: quote="Themage" post="495894577"] guess i shouldnt be mad at hitler either for killing one of my great grandparents, that would overrule his opinion that it was the right thing to do [/quote] This means in the context of the thread.
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Jun 13, 2019 18:01
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Glenn Quebec posted:Please tell me how Hitler killing your granddad pertains to trans rights in cyberpunk 2020 I dont have to justify poo poo to a guy that has strong opinions about black people
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Jun 13, 2019 18:01
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Bust Rodd posted:FYI there are literally only 5-6 posters you need to put on ignore for this thread to go back to being good must be a lot of blank pages
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Jun 13, 2019 18:02
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Themage posted:i mean going by your post history its pretty easy to see what your political beliefs are(a chud). and lmao tell me more about how all opinions are equal Anytime someone uses terms like chud or sjw without irony, I straight up ignore the rest of what they have to say.
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Jun 13, 2019 18:02
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Themage posted:I dont have to justify poo poo to a guy that has strong opinions about black people ??? Because I hosed up the meme that originated here in the talk like an SA caveman thread?
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Jun 13, 2019 18:02
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