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I still want age of mythology type games for total war. I don't care, give me weird poo poo CA. Make it a DLC called weird poo poo.
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Jun 13, 2019 20:34
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Unsurprisingly just got absolutely bodied in a duel by Zhao Yun, but Zheng Jiang survived and we won the battle overall, meaning he was captured and immediately executed. Sorry duder you could have joined us but you decided that was beneath you so PS bandits rule guerilla deployment erry day REJECT AUTHORITY e; All the generals who take the field for the Bandit Queen are women Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 20:35
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Randarkman posted:Can't say I've ever heard about Alexander's Macedonians using artillery in any field battles, though there's plenty of accounts of them buidling and using stone throwers of various kinds in sieges (Alexander's army included a dedicated siege train with lots of essentially siege engineers and they were able to capture many heavily fortified cities by storm due to this that would otherwise have been almost impregnable or required lengthy sieges), and I know of Roman light artillery pieces. As you say, "artillery" back then isn't exactly what we think of it. However, Arrian describes Alexander's armies using bolt-throwers and light stone-throwers to bombard enemy forces across a river before the army crossed, and Roman legions were supposedly equipped with one light artillery piece per century which could be deployed in the field. Again, I'm agreeing with you that the use of actual trebuchets in the field is very unrealistic, what the ancients used as field artillery were mostly arrow launchers or small stone launchers used more like grapeshot than anything else. The trebuchets in 3K are absolutely anachronistic and could not really have been used outside of siege battles as shown in the game even in their appropriate time period, no question at all.
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Jun 13, 2019 20:50
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Arglebargle III posted:Mignons Some are unlocked by generals reaching a specific rank, usually 3 or 4. And it’s specific to the generals color type. Units are also gated behind research technology, some quite far into the tree. I was pretty confused at first too because it seemed like I was using starting militia troops for 80% of the game. It’s very different than previous TW titles where troops were mainly unlocked through buildings.
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Jun 13, 2019 21:13
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Strategists already have more units than everybody else at level 1 between bows, cbows and trebuchets. Traction trebuchets at lvl 3 and the current future superweapons at 6 sounds entirely reasonable to me.
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Jun 13, 2019 22:24
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Zurai posted:As you say, "artillery" back then isn't exactly what we think of it. However, Arrian describes Alexander's armies using bolt-throwers and light stone-throwers to bombard enemy forces across a river before the army crossed, and Roman legions were supposedly equipped with one light artillery piece per century which could be deployed in the field. Again, I'm agreeing with you that the use of actual trebuchets in the field is very unrealistic, what the ancients used as field artillery were mostly arrow launchers or small stone launchers used more like grapeshot than anything else. What the game (and Total War games in general) should have more of is defensive works in battles. Stakes and palisades, caltrops, ditches, trenches and siege forts for attackers in a siege, etc. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 22:33
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Had two units of heavy crossbows for my (3rd) big showdown with Cao Cao and they did a weird swirl in place every time I had them change targets the weirdos. Cao Pi, Lady Wu's husband after I sold her off half the campaign ago, died to Sun Ren's axeman friends when he stuck around as the unbreakable last man over his father's corpse (Cao Cao will recover though. 4th time's the charm?) North of the river looks a horrifying hellscape playing a Wu campaign.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:31
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Playing Yuan Shao this afternoon, Huang Shao somehow beat Liu Bei and Kong Rong, and Kong and Guan Yu showed up for recruitment. Superfriends, assemble!
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Jun 13, 2019 23:34
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In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run?
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Jun 13, 2019 23:36
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alex314 posted:That's like fifth? How many hours have you got in the game? It took me ~40 hours to grind through Sun Jian. Yeah, that's the fifth. At 144 hours at this post. CharlieFoxtrot posted:In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run? If you're at your limit regarding food or just want to cripple an enemy you have no interest in conquering.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:41
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run? Gain a ton of money and you get to be a dick, total win/win.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:43
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You can keep taking their lunch money.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:56
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If you have the option to take the settlement and sell it to a neighbour that's always better if you don't want the territory. Make money and friends. Wiping out the enemy isn't really necessary in this game where sides can change so often and quickly. It's not like Warhammer where different species are eternal enemies, the guy whose peasants you're killing could be your only option for a trade agreement in a few years. Get the upper hand and get a generous peace deal.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:59
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Just had Zheng Jiang fight a defense against 3 enemy armies consisting of 6 strategists, 1 commander, and a vanguard. She killed all of them besides the vanguard who ran away. Still lost due to my army getting crushed when the 3rd reinforcement army finally reached the battle while she was crushing skulls. Now i was playing as Kong Rong but he died a few turns earlier with no heir selected and it made Zheng Jiang my new leader. Does the AI randomly pick someone from your court if you don't have a heir selected or does it prioritize like previous faction leaders?
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Jun 14, 2019 00:00
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sassassin posted:If you have the option to take the settlement and sell it to a neighbour that's always better if you don't want the territory. Make money and friends. That's how I peaced out with Liu Biao in my latest Sun Jian game. Beat up his two vassals and then went and took one of his cities and when he offered peace for a territory trade I just subbed it for his one and 1 food a turn and he accepted without trouble.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:02
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I wanted to play Kong Rong as peacefully as possible. Which meant there was no grand specific campaign to follow and instead me doing my best to damage all my enemies' abilities through trade. This worked out pretty well. Only Sun Jian was really beyond my trade wrath. Though Trade Monopolies not counting as Trade Agreements for the council mission sucked. Kong Rong's building was... well, it removes the only source of bonus character xp (no matter how small it is), but you get public order and a flat sum or +all which makes it versatile and helpful. I also ended up with weirdly high characters all around anyway because of the reform I guess. Unlike some of the usual disasters I had a real easy time public order wise due to how Kong Rong functioned. Even with max taxing I was more often gaining PO than losing and even the later was tiny. Boy was getting an army a pain without the reforms though. 7 turns for a replenishment? Yowza. Sun Jian conquered the south unopposed. Then turned Wu which led to the usual war. Dong Zhou > Dong Min > Lu Bu. Lu Bu got utterly destroyed against his enemies, I didn't even finish him off despite grabbing Chang'an. I eventually recruited Lu Bu and even at max promotion rank he wanted a higher court position. I hit 200 Instinct with him, yay? Cao Cao got bullied hard. Mostly by me buying out his foodstocks then selling back to him for high prices. He had some OK success after I vasslized him and he fought with Wu. Dropped Yuan like usual. Gongsun Zan mostly got hemmed in by me. He warred with Zheng Liang who called me to coalition war only for her to peace out and leave me finishing him out. Which I did have to, since he was Kingdom of Yan and all. I vassalized him after and he didn't do much. Hilariously I managed to capture Zhao Yun from him and got the Zhao Yun saves wife and child event. King Kong Rong! Liu Bei I did everything in my power to handicap at every turn. Despite me literally buying him down to one settlement multiple times he kept managing to grab territory until he confederated Liu Biao and was utterly uncontrollable. During endgame he drags me into a war with Wu only to peace out and become his vassal like the world's biggest douchebag. Liu Biao did nothing, really. Cai Mao did more beating Cao Cao's face in for a while. Biao got confederated by Liu Bei which meant I could no longer contain him and both his vassals got eaten by me for some reason or another. Ma Teng Yuan Shu was a pretty decent threat for a while but since supporting his legitimacy is such a huge positive I was able to bully him down into one settlement and being a vassal. Sure, he declared independent not so long after, but by then I beat him up some more and was able to confederate him. Yuan Shu died right after I finally fielded him too. Yuan Shao couldn't expand south because I controlled the river and wouldn't let him. When he got fed up with it, Zheng Jiang and Gongsun Zan took advantage and devoured him. Then I let him stew as a vassal before he went independent and I finished him off. Zhang Yan got dogpiled by everyone in the north and wiped out. He himself wound up in the Han. So, every general that vanishes just pops up with them, it seems. Zheng Jiang clobbered Zhang Yan, pushed against Lu Bu and trounced Gongsun Zan until they made peace. Got involved in a massive war with Gong Du but survived. Yellow Turban 3: He Yi and Huang Shao got crushed by everyone. Gong Du destroyed Ma Teng, tore Lu Bu apart, ate Han Sui and tangled with Zheng Jiang. Because we beat up Lu Bu at the same time he ended up my second best friend and eventually joined the Coalition to hilarious results. Shi Xie: Normally the minor warlords aren't worth talking about, but uh... y'know, I kneecapped everyone else so bad Shi Xie declared as Kingdom of Ba. Wu ran wild over him, despite Xu Chu's help, and it made it an enormous pain to track down the Emperor Seat. Next up is either Dong Zhou or one of the bandits, then probably a Turban after.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:05
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run? I did it a few times as Zheng Jiang because 1) I wasn't interested in a fighting a multi-front war right then and 2) it felt in-character. You're right that I did eventually want to expand to those cities, but short term it got me cash up front now and cash again when I told them to pay up if they didn't want it to happen again.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:20
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Also late game when you're facing Large Regional Cities and Imperial Cities, you can get like 20k gold for sacking them and those cities take like 30 food per turn to maintain so you may very well not actually be able to keep them anyway.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:44
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I thought I would miss razing for when you want to kill off a faction but don’t want their land, but trading it off makes for a way more entertaining campaign
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Jun 14, 2019 00:49
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run? As Sun Jian my corruption was already stupid and I had vassals north of me so I would send raiding stacks to sack cities, make money to upgrade my poor, huge empire, and let my vassals have an easier time holding the territory for me. Sometimes I'd take them and give them away for the relations boost.
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Jun 14, 2019 01:06
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On the topic of too-strong trebuchets https://www.nexusmods.com/totalwarthreekingdoms/mods/67   
Runa fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 01:15
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Oh Jesus I actually need 95 territories to win. This is a slog
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Jun 14, 2019 03:14
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run? if you're going on wild adventures up and down the rivers it's probably worth the extra dosh Jarvisi posted:Oh Jesus I actually need 95 territories to win. This is a slog subjects count
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Jun 14, 2019 03:32
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Ravenfood posted:As Sun Jian my corruption was already stupid and I had vassals north of me so I would send raiding stacks to sack cities, make money to upgrade my poor, huge empire, and let my vassals have an easier time holding the territory for me. Sometimes I'd take them and give them away for the relations boost. Yeah the main reason behind wanting to sack rather than occupy is if you just want to weaken an enemy without actually expanding territory - and there's reasons why you might not want to expand territory (maybe it's in an awkward position to defend relative to the rest of your territory, maybe you don't want to advance your prestige too quickly and hit the three kingdoms part before you're ready, etc.). Since you pretty often catch enemies in town garrisons, you typically don't have a choice by to siege a city if you just want to wipe the stack. Gamerofthegame posted:subjects count Military allies do, too.
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Jun 14, 2019 04:25
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I've realized that focusing going after Han Empire provinces is usually a mistake. Sure, you get stronger, but you miss the crucial element of making enemies weaker. I've taken to leaving the Han mostly alone unless an army truly has nothing better to do.
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Jun 14, 2019 05:00
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Jarvisi posted:Oh Jesus I actually need 95 territories to win. This is a slog Make some allies and vassals.
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Jun 14, 2019 05:15
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I like how important diplomacy is and how transparent everything seems to be. I remember in Rome 2 or Shogun it could be hard to even get enough map presence to figure out who you could engage diplomatically. This is very different.
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Jun 14, 2019 05:17
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my main problem with the game is that it does become aggressively annoying if to many people wardec you are once get four people who are actively sending armies your way and you quickly just start to run out of armies to throw at the enemies, even if it's on the same front. that and a tendency for battles to revolve around settlements means a lot of back and forth. it's like people hate the yellow turbans or something, in this case
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Jun 14, 2019 05:34
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What I found worked well in that sort of situation is to just leave some poor bastard garrisons in the province capitals (like a general + captain), then take the rest of your armies and go wild in one direction. Don't spend money on anything except upkeep or more armies. You'll go into the red and probably lose places and it'll feel like everything is falling apart but if you can throw out two armies for every one of your foes in one front you'll make enough income smashing their forces and taking their poo poo to stay alive. Get the bigger powers to peace out at whatever cost, and murder the smaller neighbors, especially ones that don't neighbor new enemy powers or otherwise would be a huge pain in the rear end. If you take territories that are too far out to defend or expose you to too much risk just sell them. Fighting a single big power on one front is easy. You don't want multiple fronts or multiple dickheads that you have to keep a force around to defend against.
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Jun 14, 2019 06:46
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Tiler Kiwi posted:What I found worked well in that sort of situation is to just leave some poor bastard garrisons in the province capitals (like a general + captain), then take the rest of your armies and go wild in one direction. Don't spend money on anything except upkeep or more armies. You'll go into the red and probably lose places and it'll feel like everything is falling apart but if you can throw out two armies for every one of your foes in one front you'll make enough income smashing their forces and taking their poo poo to stay alive. Get the bigger powers to peace out at whatever cost, and murder the smaller neighbors, especially ones that don't neighbor new enemy powers or otherwise would be a huge pain in the rear end. If you take territories that are too far out to defend or expose you to too much risk just sell them. Why would you leave a garrison at home? Administrator retinues can teleport back with 1 turn notice, and mustering is rapid in high population settlements. Standing armies are pointless wastes of money unless it''s right on the border with Cao Cao. Eschatos posted:I've realized that focusing going after Han Empire provinces is usually a mistake. Sure, you get stronger, but you miss the crucial element of making enemies weaker. I've taken to leaving the Han mostly alone unless an army truly has nothing better to do. The Han are a massively wealthy source of trade cash (deals and selling ancillaries) late game if the south west goes unmolested.
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Jun 14, 2019 09:54
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sassassin posted:Why would you leave a garrison at home? Administrator retinues can teleport back with 1 turn notice, and mustering is rapid in high population settlements.
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Jun 14, 2019 10:06
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:In what situation would you want to sack and withdraw from a city, you'd either want to expand your territory or eliminate an enemy and leaving them the city seems self-defeating in the long run? I've seen the AI sacrifice a city with troops just out of vision range that will next turn attack your weakened force stuck in their new city. Also I tried the 8 turns per year mod and that just seems a bit much. I got 6 duchys on the map and ma teng hasn't died of old age yet.
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Jun 14, 2019 10:18
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Third World Reagan posted:I've seen the AI sacrifice a city with troops just out of vision range that will next turn attack your weakened force stuck in their new city. 6 turns a year seems to be a sweet spot for me. Also, I really like the mechanic of when you put an administrator in charge of a city, if they are not deployed in an army their retinue joins the city garrison, however, is there any way to recruit troops for them in this state, or would I literally have to make a new army, buy troops for their retinue and then disband the army? Lastly, gently caress Kong Rong, he is such a back stabbing little bitch. The moment I open a front with Cao Cao he goes from an extremely friendly coalition member to a vassel of Yuan Shao who immediately asks his new master permission to war dec me so he can start taking over my lands. Next time I have an opportunity I am going to wipe that smug grin off his portrait.
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Jun 14, 2019 10:56
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comedyblissoption posted:Devil's advocate here, but teleporting a retinue back home means they are no longer where they used to be where they presumably were attempting to do something useful at that moment. Just suddenly removing a retinue from your frontline can completely stop your forward momentum on that front. Garrisoned administrators (that are not part of an army) have no upkeep. If your main cities are being attacked your forward momentum was a mistake and all hands should go to the pumps. The benefit of having your administrator out fighting is that their retinue becomes veteran badasses and hopefully he (or she) does too, without then demanding a higher court position because they have a good one already. You're paying them a generous salary, need to earn it.
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Jun 14, 2019 11:27
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Kong Rong must have collapsed super hard in my Cao Cao game, because I just recruited him on like turn 15, and he's been a productive member of my faction ever since.
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Jun 14, 2019 11:33
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Finally won a campaign As liu biao on records with a 2x unit size mod I managed to marry sun ce to liu biaos wife after he died of old age and then Zhou Yu turned up a couple turns later 2x extreme unit size seems a bit much for my pc in any multi stack battle but I did have some epic defensive battles with my frontier stack guarding against yuan shaos hordes as my main army invaded his capital. I had a 3v1 fight where I won by the skin of my teeth with my general cav units cycle charging a huge sea of infantry, like 21,000 enemies in total
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Jun 14, 2019 11:51
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Krazyface posted:Kong Rong must have collapsed super hard in my Cao Cao game, because I just recruited him on like turn 15, and he's been a productive member of my faction ever since. Kong Rong can easily get rolled over by Huang Shao, who sometimes hulks out and murders everyone around him. He can also very occasionally get into a snit with Yuan Shao or Gongsun Zan.
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Jun 14, 2019 12:17
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sassassin posted:If your main cities are being attacked your forward momentum was a mistake and all hands should go to the pumps.
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Jun 14, 2019 12:20
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Started my second campaign with Yuan Shao, so far it goes great. Kicked Kong Rong, took some land to the east. Then I decided to kick Liu Bei instead of finishing Han provinces on that peninsula Kong Rong starts on. Now I don't know how to crack his Peach Bros stack with my general + captain one. So far best moment was one when one army of Cao Cao (I think) was travelling up the river, and it looked like they will take Dong. Suddenly out of nowhere Yuan Shao comes and murders them, then goes back. Yes, murder each other, heathens. Yellow Sky will not be denied!
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Jun 14, 2019 14:05
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comedyblissoption posted:I haven't really tried it, but maybe having an administrator's garrison and the military garrison and a big city garrison can defend against an enemy stack all by itself for relatively low upkeep. The low upkeep could maybe let you have high defense in a city for pretty low upkeep (but high initial cost) in exchange for letting you safely push out and attack somewhere else. The only administrator I've ever kept sat at home full time is Huang Gai because he was really old and I felt bad. They commute back so fast with a full strength retinue, and making the big city look less defended than it is can be helpful when the ai is choosing where to send it's stack(s). The ai rarely builds trebuchets so you've usually got time to muster a reinforcement army to break the siege anyway. Defending territory feels much easier to me than in any previous total war.
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Jun 14, 2019 14:11
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