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so your initial post was just bad and the opposite of reality (liking weapons that constantly break is brokebrained).
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Jun 27, 2019 20:58
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Snake Maze posted:No that's actually the worst version. If it's just the same as unbreakable weapons but you need to do chores once in a while then don't bother. I agree w/ this, durability works in Breath of the Wild because the entire game is designed around the assumption that you're constantly breaking weapons and it's trying to encourage you to use all the resources at your disposal to explore and make progress and not get attached to them, and games without durability also whip rear end It's a good example of needless complexity in games like Dark Souls where you have to do it but the costs are inconsequential and you're never really in danger of breaking something as long as you pay that cost once in a while
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Jun 27, 2019 21:00
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Durability in Dark Souls serves three purposes: 1) It's something for certain enemies to attack. The rock worms and the Acid Surge spell both massively damage durability. 2) It's a limiter on Crystal weapons - they're powerful, but they will eventually become worthless. And since people like having stuff, and since crystal weapons aren't THAT good, it just means nobody ever makes or buys them. 3) It's a resource for dragon weapons to spend on their special attacks. So yeah, 90% of the time it's just a combat tax, and two of its three actual uses are pointless.
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Jun 27, 2019 21:08
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No. 1 Apartheid Fan posted:I agree w/ this, durability works in Breath of the Wild because the entire game is designed around the assumption that you're constantly breaking weapons and it's trying to encourage you to use all the resources at your disposal to explore and make progress and not get attached to them, and games without durability also whip rear end Yeah, I'm one of those idiots who quite liked the durability system in BotW, mostly because of the double damage on weapon break, constant piles of new gear coming in, and newfound ability for the game to give rewards that weren't just rupees, crafting materials or heart pieces. Explore down a weird little nook, find a treasure chest, hey all right it's a rare greatsword, sweet, that'll make a few fights more fun.
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Jun 27, 2019 21:11
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Odddzy posted:I tried Katana zero and I thought it was pretty weak. gently caress cliffhanger endings. I thought it was real good, tied with bayo 2 for the only game on my switch I've bothered to finish But yeah cliffhanger ending boo
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Jun 27, 2019 22:08
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I can immediately think of one good example of weapon durability working well and one good example of having a constant timer with missable quests working well and interestingly they are both Dead Rising 2. It works because it’s a very visible timer in a relatively small gameworld where you’re (generally) kept well informed on what’s going on and what you might miss, and the weapon durability means that you have to constantly choose between finding/crafting better weapons or just trying to get as much done as possible with worse equipment. I think I actually mentioned this before in this very thread, but I think it’s worth repeating. Both of those mechanics work because they are fundamental to the way the game is played even on a moment-to-moment basis. In a lot of games, stuff like that often feels kind of tacked on - if you took weapon durability out of many games with it, like Dark Souls and Bloodborne, people would probably play them the exact same way. I don’t know how well the timer system would work in a full Barkley release, but personally with big RPGs like that, I prefer time progression that is based on plot advancement, or based on actions taken instead of actual time played. At the very least, Barkley would probably benefit from some kind of visible clock thing, though it might be tough to implement due to the very strange way time functions. Then again, that might make it even more necessary, since it sounds like it’d be very difficult for a regular player to keep track of the inconsistent flow of time on their own.
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Jun 27, 2019 22:24
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One Way Heroics has a timer (of a sort) which drives the gameplay. Half-Minute Hero, too. That said most games don't design around a timer like that and timed missions suck. The game has to make it extremely clear where you want to go, so you don't have stupid game overs because your puzzle was too obtuse. Hentai Jihadist posted:I thought it was real good, tied with bayo 2 for the only game on my switch I've bothered to finish Agreed on the cliffhanger, and I think some of the experimental gameplay switches were a cute idea, but not great in execution.
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Jun 28, 2019 01:35
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We’ve been waiting like six years and you guys made it what, 2 weeks, after a playable demo of B2 drops before arguing about Dark Souls?
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Jun 28, 2019 01:50
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GNU Order posted:We’ve been waiting like six years and you guys made it what, 2 weeks, after a playable demo of B2 drops before arguing about Dark Souls? I don't know if you know this but there are only two games we were looking forward to, this and Dark Souls 2.
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Jun 28, 2019 02:32
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Cuntellectual posted:One Way Heroics has a timer (of a sort) which drives the gameplay. Half-Minute Hero, too. I think it works on Necron 7, because the "penalty" is a scene of Wilmer getting kicked out on his rear end, which is its own kind of reward. Instead of "mission failed, retry?" you get a little world building event, which, while it is scripted, is all the more grounded because it's something you could have prevented. Can't save everyone on Necron 7. It's a really refreshing approach to vidcon design, and exactly the sort of thing you'd hope would come out of a kickstarter.
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Jun 28, 2019 07:31
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Shanty posted:I think it works on Necron 7, because the "penalty" is a scene of Wilmer getting kicked out on his rear end, which is its own kind of reward. Instead of "mission failed, retry?" you get a little world building event, which, while it is scripted, is all the more grounded because it's something you could have prevented. Can't save everyone on Necron 7. It's a really refreshing approach to vidcon design, and exactly the sort of thing you'd hope would come out of a kickstarter. except it was an unworkable mess that helped kill the game so maybe dont do it
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Jun 28, 2019 14:53
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babypolis posted:except it was an unworkable mess that helped kill the game so maybe dont do it I Disagree
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Jun 28, 2019 15:27
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Pomp posted:I choose to believe that gamers hate time management in games because they completely lack the skill irl, since time management in games owns counterpoint: Dead Rising 1 & 2 was pretty well received
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Jun 28, 2019 19:10
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It seems like the issue with the timed quests is that the rules for ingame time aren't made apparent to the player and the rules aren't set in stone. How much time passes is entirely contingent on factors the player is never made aware of, and the player is never given an idea that stuff is time sensitive. People do like time management in games when they're given clear rules on how it works, like Dead Rising or Majora's Mask, while most people don't especially like the SaGa games.
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Jun 28, 2019 19:19
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I can't think of any examples of well or at least decently received time systems that weren't built around repeatedly restarting with one or both of the following. 1) Mutually exclusive branches of content with any single branch being pretty short. 2) Selective progression, maybe players lose everything, but key upgrades or get to keep their exp with each restart. As someone else pointed out earlier putting a time system on a long RPG that people are unlikely to replay after beating makes no sense. You are effectively developing a ton of extra content with the intention of players never seeing most of it, and the player never sure of how one action will lock them out of other content.
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Jun 28, 2019 19:40
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Time management sucks because I want to play a game at my own pace, and rarely replay games, so I want to see as much content as possible in a single run. I don't want to have to look at guide to ensure I don't miss out on content.
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Jun 28, 2019 19:41
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If you see the fallout of the failed quests you're not really missing content, though. Except in an obsessive completionist sense. You're getting the same amount of video game, same length of story, but you get to chose which bits are "up beat". You have a sense of ownership over the narrative rather than everything being on rails and overly mechanized. If the game weren't also an unsalvagable trash fire, I mean.
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Jun 28, 2019 21:14
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where the fruck is a terminal i wanna see dwarfnet
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Jun 28, 2019 21:38
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Like pretty much every argument about difficulty or artificial limitations the best answer is that if a game has a time limit it should give players the option to adjust or disable it. Every game I've ever played with time as a mechanic could be easily adjusted with a cheat engine table or trainer and there's no way debug tools have have that functionality already so it's not even an argument of requiring extra labor and time, it's just pure ego of thinking it's better for people to not experience your game at all rather than experience it suboptimally.
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Jun 28, 2019 22:02
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Space Bat posted:It seems like the issue with the timed quests is that the rules for ingame time aren't made apparent to the player and the rules aren't set in stone. How much time passes is entirely contingent on factors the player is never made aware of, and the player is never given an idea that stuff is time sensitive. People do like time management in games when they're given clear rules on how it works, like Dead Rising or Majora's Mask, while most people don't especially like the SaGa games. the SaGa comparison is a good one because that franchise is also known for lovingly rendered art assets packaged in an impenetrable mess of poorly-labeled mechanics
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Jun 30, 2019 06:13
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Gulping Again posted:the SaGa comparison is a good one because that franchise is also known for lovingly rendered art assets packaged in an impenetrable mess of poorly-labeled mechanics The only game I've played was SaGa Frontier, which was ugly as poo poo even for a PSX game, and that's saying something. Also the gameplay was hideous, something I don't think is really a problem with Barkley, not even janky-demo. I think the problem is Kawazu hates games and game design, which makes him a bad choice for game design lead.
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Jun 30, 2019 09:04
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Fuschia tude posted:The only game I've played was SaGa Frontier, which was ugly as poo poo even for a PSX game, and that's saying something. Also the gameplay was hideous, something I don't think is really a problem with Barkley, not even janky-demo. actually the problem is that you don't love games and game design even a fraction of a percent as much as kawazu does the right way to play a saga game is to embrace the labrynthian design and go down the rabbit hole of gaming the rng and abusing every exploit and loophole at your disposal
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Jun 30, 2019 09:43
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I dont know posted:and the player never sure of how one action will lock them out of other content.
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Jun 30, 2019 14:24
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Khorne posted:It's amazing that people who worry about this play video games. The very act of playing a video game time-locks you out of endless things in life. When you think about it, doing literally anything else time-locks you out of playing more video games.
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Jun 30, 2019 14:45
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Opportunity cost is a bitch.
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Jun 30, 2019 15:21
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the only timer mechanic I've ever enjoyed in a videogame was in Pikmin
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Jun 30, 2019 20:23
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Space Bat posted:It seems like the issue with the timed quests is that the rules for ingame time aren't made apparent to the player and the rules aren't set in stone. How much time passes is entirely contingent on factors the player is never made aware of, and the player is never given an idea that stuff is time sensitive. People do like time management in games when they're given clear rules on how it works, like Dead Rising or Majora's Mask, while most people don't especially like the SaGa games. I know for a fact that cboyardee loved the SaGa series
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Jun 30, 2019 23:20
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o nooo I missed the weapon durability discussion Weapons breaking quickly or slowly aren't better or worse, they're just two different kinds of systems serving different purposes. Weapons breaking slowly are a mid term (if repairs are cheap/fairly plentiful) to long term (if repairs are expensive, finite or impossible) resource management so the player makes decisions comparing the value of an item's use against the circumstances and risk level of a battle. Think of it like ammo in a survival horror game or in Doom. For this to work well, there needs to be appreciable differences between your item choices, and there needs to be somewhat limited availability of strong weapons for their resource management to be meaningful. Weapons breaking quickly are something entirely different; Those are meant to make players switch weapons on the fly in the heat of battle, leading to constant split-second decision-making, making weapon choice an integral part of combat itself instead of a start-of-battle decision. This works especially well if the weapons not only have strengths and weaknesses, but also different movesets that further changes up combat on the fly. This latter one is what Shadow of Rome was doing, and it was really good at it. Constantly re-evaluating your priorities based on the weapons available and who you were fighting etc, and a scoring system for "style" pushing you to use varied weaponry during a battle to get the crowd to cheer and throw super weapons at you. (That game is really worth a look by the way, though it probably feels a tad clunky today after so many years of improvements to controls and feel for these kinds of games. It has a bit of a slow start and some awful poor man's MGS stealth sections too) I think I remember Let It Die doing this very well at the beginning of the game too, though as you get deeper in, the high cost of dying meant you wern't really keen on experimentation I feel. An issue can arise when durability or limited ammo is stuck in-between these two approaches, and this might be one way to look at the issue with limited ammo in Barkley2: its going for a Doom style of ammo limitation, where you pick the right tool for the job at the start of any given encounter, but your ammo runs out so quickly that it just comes off as tedious, and you arnt really making decisions and picking the right tool for the job, you just shoot whatever little ammo you have. Imagine if Doom had no large ammo pickups, and every enemy just dropped 4 bullets of a random gun, and you had to constantly switch weapons, not based on which weapon you want to be using, but which weapon has any bullets to shoot at all? I think the weird kind of frustration this would add to the combat would be similar to one issue Barkley has at the moment. FrankieSmileShow fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jul 1, 2019 |
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Jul 1, 2019 03:59
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2nd play through doing things differently and still get trapped in the Hoosegow without any way to progress.
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Jul 2, 2019 00:37
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FunMerrania posted:2nd play through doing things differently and still get trapped in the Hoosegow without any way to progress.
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Jul 2, 2019 01:45
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FunMerrania posted:2nd play through doing things differently and still get trapped in the Hoosegow without any way to progress. simple: don't go to the hoosegow
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Jul 2, 2019 04:37
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solution to "gameplay is not fun" remake the game as an rpg, except style the battle system to be like yokai watch with gun's. use zaubers as a replacement for inspiriting foes
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Jul 3, 2019 08:23
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Look who's back Back again Barkley's back Not for trend
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Jul 3, 2019 19:19
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thuly posted:Look who's back Back into obscurity because it looks like after the initial demo buzz it went back to being completely dead.
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Jul 4, 2019 07:53
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Gortarius posted:Back into obscurity because it looks like after the initial demo buzz it went back to being completely dead. i don't remember nor like these particular lyrics
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Jul 4, 2019 07:58
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The promise has been made
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Jul 4, 2019 08:10
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What's the latest kickstarter update? Now the glare of the spotlight is off them surely Liam and Co are noses to the grindstone with progress to show!
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Jul 4, 2019 10:35
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thank god I don't have to play this entire game ever
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Jul 4, 2019 11:02
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Shanty posted:thank god I don't have to play this entire game ever
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Jul 5, 2019 13:18
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Hentai Jihadist posted:What's the latest kickstarter update? Now the glare of the spotlight is off them surely Liam and Co are noses to the grindstone with progress to show! Now that he's got the latest batch of
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Jul 5, 2019 14:33
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