|
Does Kawhi stay? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| He stay |
|
95 | 32.20% |
| He leave |
|
99 | 33.56% |
| ask Uncle Dennis |
|
57 | 19.32% |
| burn down Toronto if he doesn't |
|
44 | 14.92% |
| Total: | 295 votes | ||
|
Lockback posted:Cap increases have affected this too. Kawhi gave up like $80 million vs getting a super-max from the Spurs, but the marginal value of this money is far less than it was when the cap was only 50-60 million. You can justify taking a 20%+ pay cut to play where you want when you are still making 100s of millions. Players just weren't willing to do that nearly as much before. It's not marquee, its market size. Shocker that LA and NY were the big FA winners
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 16:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 05:52 |
|
|
something that i am growing tired of is the obsession with "asset culture" where any player who either isn't a superstar on a max or a rookie scale contract is overpaid trash. all i ever hear from people is, for example, that otto porter is overpaid and the biggest criticism i've seen is that he makes too much money. otto porter is a legitimately good basketball player who is perfect for the bulls and better than what he showed in DC because he has the ball in his hands a little more, and it's insane to me that he's bad because he's making slightly more money than he "should" based on his production. i'm so loving sick of contracts and caps and everything, i know it's a major part of the sport since the NBA is now a Transactions League, but i just want to see players play ball. e: the same thing happened in baseball and a bunch of legit good players literally can't get signed because owners have figured out they can just pay for rookies ahd if they suck the team is rebuilding anyway. Frank Sidebottom posted:It's not marquee, its market size. Shocker that LA and NY were the big FA winners once again, the small-market chicago bulls are left dangling for scraps. R.D. Mangles fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jul 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 16:59
|
|
|
R.D. Mangles posted:something that i am growing tired of is the obsession with "asset culture" where any player who either isn't a superstar on a max or a rookie scale contract is overpaid trash. all i ever hear from people is, for example, that otto porter is overpaid and the biggest criticism i've seen is that he makes too much money. otto porter is a legitimately good basketball player who is perfect for the bulls and better than what he showed in DC because he has the ball in his hands a little more, and it's insane to me that he's bad because he's making slightly more money than he "should" based on his production. i'm so loving sick of contracts and caps and everything, i know it's a major part of the sport since the NBA is now a Transactions League, but i just want to see players play ball. This is also why people think Adams is trash.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:01
|
|
|
Frank Sidebottom posted:It's not marquee, its market size. Shocker that LA and NY were the big FA winners But Golden State wasn't a very big market. And honestly, you're not going to get the same market access playing for the Nets vs the Knicks or Clippers vs the Lakers. You're still going to have a ton of people in LA who are Laker's fans first. And if Market Size was such a big factor, why is Chicago (which only has 1 team) not a bigger attraction? (edit: Beaten by RD) I disagree. I think market size is a factor, but pretty low on the list, tbh. I think fit is probably the biggest (its why players like to "start from scratch" so often) and success is another. Seriously, "The Nets and the Clippers are big FA Targets" is not something that's been said ever so, yeah, it is a big shocker that those teams have suddenly been big winners.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:04
|
|
|
R.D. Mangles posted:something that i am growing tired of is the obsession with "asset culture" where any player who either isn't a superstar on a max or a rookie scale contract is overpaid trash. all i ever hear from people is, for example, that otto porter is overpaid and the biggest criticism i've seen is that he makes too much money. otto porter is a legitimately good basketball player who is perfect for the bulls and better than what he showed in DC because he has the ball in his hands a little more, and it's insane to me that he's bad because he's making slightly more money than he "should" based on his production. i'm so loving sick of contracts and caps and everything, i know it's a major part of the sport since the NBA is now a Transactions League, but i just want to see players play ball. Agreed. Also, I think I like this version of the Bulls. White and Harrison are cool. Otto, Lauri, WCJ, and Gafford are also p cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:04
|
|
|
But it is every team not in NYC or LA
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:04
|
|
|
Lockback posted:But Golden State wasn't a very big market. And honestly, you're not going to get the same market access playing for the Nets vs the Knicks or Clippers vs the Lakers. You're still going to have a ton of people in LA who are Laker's fans first.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:06
|
|
|
Player can ball, you can also accept that most teams in the league will avoid the tax and otto porter being paid double what he's worth means the Bulls are gonna trade your other favorite player or not pay him On the other hand, gently caress the bulls
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:07
|
|
|
Lockback posted:But Golden State wasn't a very big market. And honestly, you're not going to get the same market access playing for the Nets vs the Knicks or Clippers vs the Lakers. You're still going to have a ton of people in LA who are Laker's fans first. Yeah, that's why there's a history of stars going to Memphis, okc, NOLA, and Minnesota. It's the reason the Lakers and Knicks and heat are poo poo at team building through the draft. They can just rely on recruiting free agents every year.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:08
|
|
|
G-Hawk posted:I think "market size" in a dollars sense may be a piece of it, but the other side is young multimillionaire athletes just like living in los angeles and new york (and miami) because they're really fun places to live especially if you have more money than god I mean, those guys can live anywhere they want in the country. Again, I don't think this is wrong or not a factor but before this FA we saw Golden State clean up in FA and I don't think San Fran/Oakland is all that great. LMA was the key FA target a few years ago and he went to San Antonio. I think Butler likes Miami, but I think he mostly went there to have his own team, a thing he's been saying he wants for like 3 years. Also, Miami has swung and missed on a LOT of free agents the last 5 years. Frank Sidebottom posted:Yeah, that's why there's a history of stars going to Memphis, okc, NOLA, and Minnesota. It's the reason the Lakers and Knicks and heat are poo poo at team building through the draft. They can just rely on recruiting free agents every year. But the Knicks haven't gotten good Free Agents in like a decade. Lockback fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:11
|
|
|
i'm also annoyed by an nba analysis that treats teams getting under the tax as a laudable strategy, there's a word for teams that do that: they are cheap cowards and any team that makes moves just to get under the tax should be ostracized in the media and pressured to sell the team, if you won't pay luxury tax on your 2 billion dollar NBA franchise you should be out of the league and also in jail, in my opinion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:11
|
|
|
Frank Sidebottom posted:Yeah, that's why there's a history of stars going to Memphis, okc, NOLA, and Minnesota. It's the reason the Lakers and Knicks and heat are poo poo at team building through the draft. They can just rely on recruiting free agents every year. Yeah that’s been going great for the Knicks
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:11
|
|
|
R.D. Mangles posted:something that i am growing tired of is the obsession with "asset culture" where any player who either isn't a superstar on a max or a rookie scale contract is overpaid trash. Agreed
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:18
|
|
|
everything with the way nba team building and salary caps and "assets" are talked about and handled right now is driven by the fact that the existence of a max contract makes the top 5-10 players undervalued versus their actual worth, so the entirety of winning nba championships is now driven by who can convince a couple of those players to come play for them. And given that fact, those top 5-10 players are gonna decide to play either A. with their friends B. in a cool fun city C. where they can make even more money (market size) D. where they think they can win. And everything else in the league revolves around what their preferences are. The only thing more valuable than a top player on a max is getting them via the draft because of rookie salary and team control, which is obviously a gamble. But getting rid of the max contract and keeping a salary cap would push the entire rest of the league's salary down, which would be bad. So there isn't really a great solution, and rising salaries are just making those top 5-10 players so financially secure they can even turn down larger amounts of money, like the supermax, that previously would have given teams advantages versus loving off to LA or NYC.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:18
|
|
|
R.D. Mangles posted:i'm also annoyed by an nba analysis that treats teams getting under the tax as a laudable strategy, there's a word for teams that do that: they are cheap cowards and any team that makes moves just to get under the tax should be ostracized in the media and pressured to sell the team, if you won't pay luxury tax on your 2 billion dollar NBA franchise you should be out of the league and also in jail, in my opinion. agreed. nerds like zach Lowe and Nate Duncan have done more harm to the nba fan base than the idiot Stephen a smith and skip baylesses of the world ever did
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:20
|
|
|
G-Hawk posted:But getting rid of the max contract and keeping a salary cap would push the entire rest of the league's salary down, which would be bad. I'm not 100% sure if this is true. Toronto just won with 1 top guy and a deep roster of good-starter-types. I think there would absolutely be a market for teams to spend on the good-starters if they couldn't land a top-talent. I don't think your Otto Porters or Lowry's or Steven Adams would suddenly be minimum guys. I think you'd have some teams that are basically this year's Lakers, and some teams that go deep with maybe 1 or 2 near-allstar type guys (kinda like the Clippers last season). That seems like it'd be pretty good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:23
|
|
|
Lockback posted:I'm not 100% sure if this is true. Toronto just won with 1 top guy and a deep roster of good-starter-types. I think there would absolutely be a market for teams to spend on the good-starters if they couldn't land a top-talent. I don't think your Otto Porters or Lowry's or Steven Adams would suddenly be minimum guys. i think the effects would be interesting to see, but it seems likely to me youd see a wider gulf open in player pay overall. But theres also the other point i mentioned that stars are already starting to leave large amounts of money on the table because of other priorities (winning, friends, place to live, etc), so maybe you wouldnt see durant try to get paid 100mil or whatever because he doesnt want to play with a bunch of min contract guys.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:27
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1147905246812753920
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:32
|
|
|
G-Hawk posted:i think the effects would be interesting to see, but it seems likely to me youd see a wider gulf open in player pay overall. Yeah. I think this is a good point and it ties into the fact that we are at enough money that guys are walking away from money for other factors.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:33
|
|
|
Caleb Swanigan bought me dinner because of the poo poo I yelled 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:33
|
|
|
Starting the "please stay" tactics very early, smart
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:35
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:Caleb Swanigan bought me dinner because of the poo poo I yelled Haha, at him or at the other team?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:38
|
|
|
The Bucks are going to have to max both him and Giannis.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Yeah. I think this is a good point and it ties into the fact that we are at enough money that guys are walking away from money for other factors. the league gave teams a structural advantage in keeping players they drafted for a long time between the salary cap, things like bird rights, extra years, RFAs, etc. But now player salaries are so high after team control is gone, players rightfully consider other factors than sheer amount of money in deciding where to play. I'm not sure how you prevent things like market size, playing with other stars, living desirable places, etc from being what they want to prioritize. I also don't have a problem with players having that power and making those decisions, but its going to result in the increased movement of players to a specific few markets and theres no real incentive to stay in one place. Rising salaries have also reduced the incentive for signing the longest deal possible - and one unnoted thing about the Durant signing is the guy literally is 30 and destroyed his achilles and it was widely agreed (knicks aside maybe lol) everyone should offer him a 4 year max anyway. When previously the potential of injury was a big incentive for players to sign the longest, biggest money deal possible. And now players are increasingly able to force trades to their desired destination as well. But I think thats all driving asset culture -- the path to winning in the nba is creating a situation that superstars want to join, and the controllable factors for that are cap space and good players, and by extension of that good players on cheap contracts. You cant control market size or being NYC, but you can control that. So the incentive for every team in the league is to have good players on cheap contracts and draft picks that can help them draw in stars. I think if anything the league is going to head even more in that direction going forward.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 17:50
|
|
|
Be funny if this was like billy goats gruff and every year a bigger, older Antentekounpo joined the Bucks to avenge the previous year.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:02
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:Caleb Swanigan bought me dinner because of the poo poo I yelled i'll bite: what did you yell.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:03
|
|
|
G-Hawk, I like your posts, dude. They're good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:05
|
|
|
Lockback posted:Haha, at him or at the other team? For Sacramento. I was actually very well behaved for the Sacramento game since one of the floor ushers told some Chinese guy to stop saying "ref you suck" or he'll be kicked out. So I kept it to just over reacting to Eric Mika dunks, chanting Sacramento, and yelling at Peja that I still love him. Always and forever. I'm really legit surprised no one talked to me about not booing really loudly in the first quarter of the Mavs game everytime Cam Payne touched the ball and saying "why couldn't you do that for Chicago" everytime he actually made a shot. Pretty sure he tried to stare me down when I informed him he'll be losing a jump ball WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jul 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:10
|
|
|
It’s nice the summer league jerseys are made such that the names are illegible on tv
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:10
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:I'm really legit surprised no one talked to me about not booing really loudly in the first quarter of the Mavs game everytime Cam Payne touched the ball and saying "why couldn't you do that for Chicago" everytime he actually made a shot lmao, my man you're a loving hero
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:13
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:
Omg lmao
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
Some old guy tried to be a smartass and said Sacramento fans shouldn't boo players. I said "Sacramento fans know poo poo players and Cam Payne is a poo poo player boooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" That one had the Rockets assistants cracking up
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
Cam Payne is still playing in Summer League?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:15
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:Cam Payne is still playing in Summer League? yeah before he fucks off to china
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:15
|
|
|
WhyteRyce posted:Some old guy tried to be a smartass and said Sacramento fans shouldn't boo players. I said "Sacramento fans know poo poo players and Cam Payne is a poo poo player boooooooooooooooooooooooooooo" That is some Grade A gatekeeping.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:16
|
|
|
The idea that NY and LA won this free agency feels a bit misleading as the more iconic and the ones with more control of the markets lost
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:19
|
|
|
I AM ALMOST INTERNET FAMOUS https://twitter.com/BrianZilem/status/1147698756302675968 https://twitter.com/BrianZilem/status/1147681947562336256 https://twitter.com/MaxScouts/status/1147681195573964801 https://twitter.com/_Verts/status/1147677295584219137 WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jul 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:20
|
|
|
What did cam do to you 😥
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:23
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1147918919828508672
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 05:52 |
|
|
Metapod posted:What did cam do to you 😥 Bad experience with skee-ball at a Chuck E Cheese
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2019 18:25
|
|