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I feel like the early seasons present the most accurate vision of Russian Jews ever seen on television.
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Jul 6, 2019 03:57
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 22:48 |
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The Vorlons didn't have any worshippers, they preferred soft subtle touches in how they influenced others. The Shadows were the ones who had direct agents and influences. Yeah, I think Vorlon-followers deliberately don't know they're worshiping Vorlons. Sheridan was saved by [INSERT DIVINE BEING HERE], not A Vorlon. Absurd Alhazred posted:Stephen Franklin is a Foundationist, which becomes important in his Season 4 story arc, and there's a big celebration of all the Earth religions somewhere in Season 1 Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I seem to recall they pretty much state humans are mostly atheist since spaceflight, I think around when Brother Theo and his monks arrive, which is why they're a curiosity. Atheists are given the first spot in the long list of human religious identities. Nothing is stated explicitly about their prevalence, but I don't think the list was just alphabetical. I took a bunch of notes during my rewatch of The Gathering and will type some of those up for sharing in a bit. It's a lot of commentary on little character details.
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Jul 6, 2019 03:58
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S1E3: Born to the Purple I cannot believe I ever thought this episode was good. It's B5 not as space opera but soap opera. Clive Revill is solid as Trakis, bringing to the role the quiet understated menace that he had in his brief role as the original Emperor in The Empire Strikes Back, but everything else is weak. Londo getting seduced by a hooker with a heart of gold is cliched, her actually falling for him but still betraying him but it's OK because he forgives her is ... urrrrggh. We're meant to seriously believe that in 150 years of Psi-Corps regulation nobody ever added the "Don't think of polar bears" trick to the prohibitions. And I really don't like Sinclair yukking it up at G'Kar, which was one burst of canned laughter away from belonging in a lovely sitcom. It's not the only time G'Kar is made the butt of a joke in the episode, either. In its defence, though, it's not all terrible. It's got the famous "moon-faced assassin of joy" line and "Don't give away the homeworld", at least. I also find myself wondering how Mary Woronov would have fared if she'd got along with the makeup, because she's a far better actress than the performance she gives here. I've finished binging Stranger Things 3 now, so I can get back to the rewatch.
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Jul 7, 2019 23:43
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G'kar was nothing but the butt of jokes early in the first season, and honestly, it's for the best. G'kar before the fall of Narn was a creep, a constant aggressor and womanizer always running his schemes. That's what makes his enlightenment so powerful. It's much easier to sympathize with the cheery old man who has given up on most political ambition and just wants to make the most of his time as ambassador without loving things up.
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Jul 8, 2019 00:44
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Jedit posted:S1E3: Born to the Purple On first watch, knowing little of Londo or the Centauri, the world-building elements are interesting enough to hide the fact that this story really isn't good at all. Revill gets cheated again (I loved him in Wizards & Warriors, canceled too soon) as his part wastes his talent on a fairly easily duped thug. That he's an alien hardly seems to matter. The Garibaldi-Ivonova side-plot is lovely, if a bit too on the nose. The seduction plot was hokey at the time. DiTillio shares some interesting details in the script book about this episode: it was essentially his audition-piece for Warner Brothers for the script editor position. JMS' premise was Londo becoming involved with an exotic danger who used their relationship to smuggle Dust in his diplomatic pouch, which not only makes more sense but establishes Dust early on. DiTillio writes that he felt drug smuggling was "too generic a crime" and wanted something that mattered more to Londo and the Republic. DiTillio calls this a love story--Londo for Adira and Ivonava for her father. Those two things tell us a lot. He also shares that he worked closely with director Bruce Seth Green and was very happy with the emotional scenes but not with the humor or action. He especially calls out Vir's mugging in the first scene, and the cutting of several fight scenes which he admits were not necessary to the plot. They also cut a scene of Adira's bare back, which would have had six slots (yes, those). And JMS cut a scene where Adira explained that she really loved Londo and betrayed him to save her family from slavery. So this could have been even worse. DiTillio calls this a 7 out of 10. Personally, I'd rather rewatch Infection.
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Jul 8, 2019 00:55
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SlothfulCobra posted:G'kar was nothing but the butt of jokes early in the first season, and honestly, it's for the best. G'kar before the fall of Narn was a creep, a constant aggressor and womanizer always running his schemes. That's what makes his enlightenment so powerful. I see your point, but it went too far. Sinclair having a wry smile with Londo in private about thwarting G'Kar's latest plot would be fine; literally laughing in his face until he stomps off in a pout is not. G'Kar isn't just a schemer and a creep; he's the primary antagonist of S1, and you can understand where his hatred and thirst for vengeance come from. If you can't take him seriously then the character and everything about his arc is harmed, and if the other characters don't take him seriously, why should you?
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Jul 8, 2019 23:30
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Jedit posted:I see your point, but it went too far. Sinclair having a wry smile with Londo in private about thwarting G'Kar's latest plot would be fine; literally laughing in his face until he stomps off in a pout is not. G'Kar isn't just a schemer and a creep; he's the primary antagonist of S1, and you can understand where his hatred and thirst for vengeance come from. If you can't take him seriously then the character and everything about his arc is harmed, and if the other characters don't take him seriously, why should you? It’s intentional. He’s supposed to seem like the stereotypical sci-fi bad guy. Maybe that one episode is over the top but the ol switcheroo with G’kar and Londo was absolutely intentional.
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Jul 9, 2019 00:14
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Doctor Zero posted:It’s intentional. He’s supposed to seem like the stereotypical sci-fi bad guy. Maybe that one episode is over the top but the ol switcheroo with G’kar and Londo was absolutely intentional. For the love of God, I never said otherwise. Anyway, on the subject of rewatching Infection: S1E4 Infection In which we learn two things: that everyone has Nazis and it's not a good idea to put them in charge, and that when you put "organic technology" in the script you should provide a list of organs that you definitely weren't thinking of. This episode plays out more like Trek than almost any other B5 episode, but even so it's got a better way of approaching the material. In Trek the Enterprise would have sent a party down to Ikarra 7 and had a curious redshirt find something. In B5 the mountain has to come to Mohammed so you can't just do that, but it's a more realistic view anyway - the artifacts are collected, smuggled and used purely in the name of profit. And unlike your typical bottle episode, it lays down more hints: (S1) the Ikarrans being invaded multiple times a thousand years ago suggests they were destroyed in the last Shadow War, although by which side we cannot say. The Ikarrans also worshipped a Great Maker, the same as the Centauri, although the one image we see of a natural Ikarran looks a lot more like a Brakiri so it's probably just a coincidence. One thing that niggles me is the introduction of IPX. (S2) In this episode Franklin can't find out anything about them, and Hendricks tells him that it's a false front for a bioweapons corporation. But later they appear in the public eye as a fully legitimate organisation, and of course they sent the Icarus to Z'Ha'Dum some four years earlier after the second dig on Syria Planum the year before. It's a combination of enforced retconning and a fleshing out of them being more than a shell company, but it's still clumsy. The other B5 tradition that is carried on with this episode is the top class guest stars, adding David McCallum to the roster.
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Jul 9, 2019 01:05
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Come to think of it, we never really learn much about the rest of the Kha'Ri. I wonder how much G'kar was respected back with the Narn, or if he's also a 3rd class nobody politician like Londo was at the start. Considering how he was always scheming against the Centauri, Londo would later return the favor, and both Earth and Minbar would later get mad at their respective representatives for not pulling some poo poo against eachother, it may just be another statement about how unlikely Babylon 5's stated purpose was. Everybody wanted it to be a tool to take advantage of everybody else, but it wound up becoming far more.
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Jul 9, 2019 01:41
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Jedit posted:One thing that niggles me is the introduction of IPX. (S2) In this episode Franklin can't find out anything about them, and Hendricks tells him that it's a false front for a bioweapons corporation. But later they appear in the public eye as a fully legitimate organisation, and of course they sent the Icarus to Z'Ha'Dum some four years earlier after the second dig on Syria Planum the year before. It's a combination of enforced retconning and a fleshing out of them being more than a shell company, but it's still clumsy. I thought it was a company funding the IPX expedition that was dodgy?
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Jul 9, 2019 04:25
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Jedit posted:For the love of God, I never said otherwise. The best thing I can say about Infection is that, in many ways, it is one of the main series plot arcs in miniature. In fact, it's so beautifully so that you probably need to watch the whole series several times to appreciate it. Outside of that context, it suffers. But fan wisdom on Infection being bad is mostly based on memories of seeing it for the first time.
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Jul 9, 2019 04:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:Come to think of it, we never really learn much about the rest of the Kha'Ri. I wonder how much G'kar was respected back with the Narn, or if he's also a 3rd class nobody politician like Londo was at the start. G'Kar appears to be well respected among the other members of the Kha'Ri. (S2) It's interesting to look at the ambassadors in hindsight, because they provide an indication where the show was planning to go. Earth appoints a military man to run a diplomatic station; it goes to Sinclair over the many captains and admirals put forward for the position because the Minbari specifically demanded him, but it still foreshadows Earthforce wanting to flex its muscles after the stinging defeat and reverse Pyrrhic victory of the Line. Both G'Kar and Delenn are members of the highest ruling body of their race, and they are the ones who take the project most seriously (although G'Kar had to be brought round to actually helping it). And the Centauri send a nobody with the full expectation that he will be killed because they believe the project won't work. I had a late night before sleep thought about Infection, but it's gone now. It remains not bad for a first episode produced.
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Jul 9, 2019 08:27
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Jedit posted:I had a late night before sleep thought about Infection, but it's gone now. Are you saying there is a hole in your mind?
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Jul 9, 2019 17:31
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Tyrel Lohr posted:Are you saying there is a hole in your mind? No, I remembered what it was. The episode not once but twice pulled the truly obnoxious move of someone saying "We'll go down in history, like these three real people and a fictional one".
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Jul 9, 2019 17:46
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Jedit posted:No, I remembered what it was. The episode not once but twice pulled the truly obnoxious move of someone saying "We'll go down in history, like these three real people and a fictional one". There tends to be more history than what's currently written in a show set 250 years in the future.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:22
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Neddy Seagoon posted:There tends to be more history than what's currently written in a show set 250 years in the future. Right, but once you notice it, the pattern of "Michaelangelo, Picasso, Vax'azarb" gets really loving annoying after a while. Star Trek is guilty of this too.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:27
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Neddy Seagoon posted:There tends to be more history than what's currently written in a show set 250 years in the future. Sure, but what Lemniscate said. Also nobody ever delivers the fictional one with the same level of respect as the real ones, simply because it's a random name that might be anyone. Occasionally someone writes "This is as important as Columbus discovering America, or Janacek finding the first habitable exoplanet", and when they do the line always lands closer to true because the actor has a frame of reference.
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Jul 9, 2019 18:36
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"How do you want to be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright Brothers? Elon Musk? Zefram Cochrane? Or as a failed fungus expert?" Actual line from the latest Star Trek series. (aired right before Musk started going crazy on twitter with the pedo cave diver brouhaha.)
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Jul 9, 2019 19:16
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I'm glad I didn't bother with that show beyond the first two episodes. Everything I read about it makes it sound like a dumpster fire that is the complete polar opposite of what was promised when the script first started being written.
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Jul 9, 2019 20:10
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Discovery had so much promise, but that stupid klingon bullshit just killed it. You know you've messed up star trek when Seth McFarlane's comedy space show is a better star trek than star trek.
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Jul 9, 2019 21:00
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CainFortea posted:Discovery had so much promise, but that stupid klingon bullshit just killed it. Someone else said it recently, but the best parody X is itself a good example of X, such as Weird Al songs and Galaxy Quest.
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Jul 10, 2019 00:19
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CainFortea posted:Discovery had so much promise Ehhhhhhh.....
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Jul 10, 2019 00:57
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CainFortea posted:
There we go. I'm still salty.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:05
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Midjack posted:Someone else said it recently, but the best parody X is itself a good example of X, such as Weird Al songs and Galaxy Quest. I don't think it's really a parody tho. It's just a comedy take on a TV show format.
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Jul 10, 2019 01:09
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Burning_Monk posted:"How do you want to be remembered in history? Alongside the Wright Brothers? Elon Musk? Zefram Cochrane? Or as a failed fungus expert?" To this day I giggle about Voyager doing a Y2K themed episode
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Jul 10, 2019 01:10
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Hey, it'll be relevant again in about 20 years when we run out of 32-bit time.
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Jul 10, 2019 04:42
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For what it's worth, the second season of discovery is better than the first
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Jul 10, 2019 05:26
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Right, but once you notice it, the pattern of "Michaelangelo, Picasso, Vax'azarb" gets really loving annoying after a while. Star Trek is guilty of this too. Star Trek, Babylon 5, Forbidden Planet: The Next Generation...
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Jul 10, 2019 05:45
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Groetgaffel posted:For what it's worth, the second season of discovery is better than the first The first half of the second season was pretty good, anyway. I don't know what the gently caress happened in the second half. But season three has the uh, fifth? new showrunner so who knows what's in store! I'll give Discovery this: it's entertaining. Every episode feels like an unedited first draft and none of the writers talked to each other so it's just loving bonkers and unpredictable. Also beautiful. That weird 70s time travel sequence toward the end of the series was awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhMb5HKOvFo Don't watch that if you're going to watch the show. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jul 10, 2019 |
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Jul 10, 2019 06:28
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The quality of some episodes of S4 that's up on Amazon Prime are really piss-poor, to the extent they're just about VCR quality. Wonder why that is..
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Jul 10, 2019 07:37
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Angry Salami posted:Star Trek, Babylon 5, Forbidden Planet: The Next Generation... Oh, come on, the original Forbidden Planet will have been the superior show by a kilometer.
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Jul 10, 2019 15:32
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Anyone else had a problem with this thread?
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Jul 13, 2019 01:15
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What kind of problem?
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Jul 13, 2019 01:57
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not enough londo dick chat
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Jul 13, 2019 02:27
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:What kind of problem? I'd typed up my thoughts on S1E5 and E6, hit Submit and got told the thread wasn't found in the active forums. Lost the post.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:41
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Jedit posted:I'd typed up my thoughts on S1E5 and E6, hit Submit and got told the thread wasn't found in the active forums. Lost the post. If you'd gone back a few pages in the tab the post should've still existed.
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Jul 13, 2019 09:13
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If you'd gone back a few pages in the tab the post should've still existed. I did, and it didn't.
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Jul 13, 2019 10:38
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Jedit posted:I'd typed up my thoughts on S1E5 and E6, hit Submit and got told the thread wasn't found in the active forums. Lost the post. I think that's more likely a forums issue than this thread specifically. There have been times in the past I've accidentally closed the thread briefly, because in the mobile app "Post Reply" is usually first in the dropdown list, but it changes to "Lock Thread" if you're the OP. But they changed it a while ago to add a confirmation, so I haven't done that recently.
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Jul 13, 2019 12:51
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OK, let's try this again. S1E5 Parliament of Dreams Not a bad bottle episode, but it misses out on several major opportunities, all of which would have forwarded character development. We see that the Centauri have no faith and the Minbari are very formal in their faith. (S2) The former foreshadows Londo seeing nothing when Kosh leaves his encounter suit. The Minbari ritual that may or may not have been a marriage was quite possibly originally meant to kick off a Sinclair/Delenn relationship, a thread that was broken in the cast reshuffle. What we don't see, unfortunately, is the Narn religion, with G'Kar instead being sidelined to another plot where he's made to look weak and foolish. At least this time it's somewhat justified, when Garibaldi needles G'Kar it's because he knows G'Kar is hiding something rather than open mockery, and at the end G'Kar gets a chance to be clever. But it was still a perfect opportunity to build up the Narn in general and G'Kar specifically as fully rounded characters and not just cartoon villains, and it was let go.
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Jul 13, 2019 22:33
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 22:48 |
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Sorry for the double post, I didn't want to risk losing everything. S1E6 Mind War For me, this is where B5 really gets into gear. There's so much character development here in contrast to past episodes. We see Ivanova starting to empathise with Talia, and gain an understanding that her antipathy to Psi-Corps is justified rather than merely personal prejudice. It's the first episode where G'Kar gets to start acting like an ambassador instead of an antagonist or a cardboard cutout. Even the two Psi-Cops show a clear and different attitude to one another. Kelsey clearly enjoys wielding power over other telepaths. Meanwhile, Walter Koenig is already imbuing Bester with the traits that will follow him through the series; lording it over the mundanes amuses him, but when it comes to hurting or controlling his peers it's a right and necessary duty, not something to be relished. (S2-4) Something else this episode does well is misdirect. Two things of apparent significance happen: Talia is gifted with TK, and we get our first glimpse of the First Ones at Sigma 957. But I don't believe Talia's TK is ever used again - the important gift she gets from Ironheart is not even mentioned, and then it's still only important once - and the First Ones are ultimately something of a McGuffin. The real important event is when Bester arrives at the station and is met by Garibaldi's aide Jack. Jack later betrays Garibaldi in a way that was originally intended for Laurel Takashima in her sleeper personality, and when he is returned to Earth he salutes Garibaldi in the exact same way as Bester salutes Sinclair in this episode. This episode sets up the later connection between Psi-Corps and Clark's conspiracy, at the same time raising the question of how much the Corps is the controlling force. Did Jack betray Garibaldi because he is a sleeper, or because he and Bester were always on the same team?
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Jul 13, 2019 23:01
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