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Saladman posted:Ah, yeah that actually seems okay the way you have it written out there. I’d still recommend spending more time in Ireland with your extra 2-3 days unless you can’t get a direct flight home from Dublin or Shannon. Awesome, thanks for the suggestions! I'll be doing like 90% of the driving, not sure how I'll feel on those rides, but we'll see. Kilkenny is almost solely for some Smithwicks Experience
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Jul 10, 2019 20:24
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NZAmoeba posted:My girlfriend is planning a trip for us and her parents (in their 50s, one cancer survivor, only speak Chinese) around Spain and Portugal, for 2 weeks in early October. We plan to start in Barcelona, rent a car, and pretty much do a loop anti-clockwise around the Iberian peninsula, finishing back up in Barcelona. This is a completely absurd itinerary. And the idea of driving around the entire peninsula in two weeks is also absurd unless you're like 18 and will be sleeping in the car, which it seems you aren't. Barcelona-Lisbon in two weeks is maybe somewhat reasonable. You're grossly underestimating the stress and time involved in sleeping in a new place every day and feeding yourselves.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:24
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Also, if you're doing Barcelona-Lisbon or Barcelona-Porto-Lisbon please fly, don't drive, if you have the budget for it. So 2 weeks, we're talking 14 days? 4 days Barcelona, 4 days Madrid, 3 days Porto, 3 days Lisbon, maybe? I don't know. But visiting all those is.. Certainly challenging.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:31
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NZAmoeba posted:We plan to start in Barcelona, rent a car, and pretty much do a loop anti-clockwise around the Iberian peninsula, finishing back up in Barcelona. Way, way too much. That is a four week trip you have outlined. For two weeks you could do Barcelona -> Segovia -> Salamanca -> Madrid -> Toledo -> Granada -> Barcelona and it would be rushed but fine. It does not make any sense to go to a large city like Madrid, Barcelona, or Lisbon and spend less than 2 nights there, and even 2 nights is pretty minimal. One night stays are exhausting, especially if you’re not a 22 year old backpacker, and you lose a lot of time checking into and out of hotels. One night stays are okay for roadtrips (eg American Southwest) and for visiting villages (eg Ronda) but in general it’s not a great plan if you want to do anything besides walk around downtown for two hours. Also keep in mind that presumably you will sit down and eat at least one, maybe two, meals per day, for an hour to an hour and a half each time. Also I don’t think there’s any reason to go to Malaga except the Picasso museum, and if you’re not museum people and you’re not into soulless British and German beach towns of beachside condo skyscrapers it’s definitely missable.
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Jul 10, 2019 21:32
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To add to the 'that is an insane itinerary for two weeks in Spain' comments, you say you're going to be there in early October, so your day isn't even going to be all that long - sunrise at 8ish, sunset 20:00 You are going to spend about 80% of your time in the car, a lot of that will be driving lost and angry around the middle of an endless succession of strange cities and then a large portion of the rest just checking in and out of accomodation. Plus you are escorting somewhat older people, one of whom may be quite frail, neither of whom will be able to communicate at all with 99% of the people they meet without someone there to interpret. It sounds absolutely hellish to me. You'd be much better off picking a few places, setting up a base in each for 3-4 days and making day trips. Give yourselves the time to relax a little and actually enjoy the places your in.
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Jul 11, 2019 09:55
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Here's an itinerary to suggest along the lines that you outlined. This is busy and possibly too busy with a frail old person, but could be OK too. It would not involve a car. You are going to mostly fairly large cities, and there is no reason to have a car unless you're trying to save money, but honestly parking and driving is kind of a hassle if you're not used to driving in foreign cities. Depends on your budget and experience, but trains are probably a better bet. I cut out Barcelona because you are not interested in any other cities remotely close to Barcelona, and Barcelona is really massively overrated and not at all worth an extra 6-10 hours of travel on your itinerary (3 hour each way for high velocity train, 5 hour drive; the long distance high velocity trains are expensive). • Day 0: Land Madrid [depends on time and jetlag status?] • Day 1: Madrid • Day 2: Toledo [daytrip from Madrid] • Day 3: Segovia [daytrip from Madrid; NB take the high speed train and not the slow one!] • Day 4: High speed train to Cordoba • Day 5: Cordoba • Day 6: Bus to Granada (the train connection is hot garbage, unless the new line is now finished which I doubt, but double-check) • Day 7: Granada • Day 8: Bus, or if it exists, train to Seville • Day 9: Seville • Day 10: Ronda [daytrip from Seville] • Day 11: Lisbon • Day 12: Lisbon • Day 13: Lisbon [daytrip to Sintra] • Day 14: Fly out of Lisbon You could maybe skip Cordoba if you're not interested in the cathedral -- which is absolutely stunning and I've been to a lot of European cathedrals. You could also maybe skip Granada if the travel connections to it are still garbage, in which case you'd have time to put into somewhere else like +1 day to Madrid and +2 days to visit Jerez de la Frontera and Cadiz. You'll notice my above itinerary has no 1 night stays. Really try to avoid one night stays. Moving between locations is tiring, whether by train or car. Admittedly luggage is a bigger hassle with train/bus, so if your gf's parents are frail, then maybe you'll want the car even though you're doing city trips. Don't use the car in the city ever, absolutely none of these cities are better done by car. I say this as someone who likes driving and has done several roadtrips around Spain.
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Jul 11, 2019 10:36
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For reference here's roughly what we did last time we were in Iberia: 7 nights in Lisbon + day trips 2 nights in Evora 2 nights in Mérida 2 nights in Sevilla 2 nights in Córdoba 2 nights in Granada 2 nights in Madrid and in retrospect all of those two night stays were very stupid because we didn't see nearly enough of Sevilla let alone Madrid. On this summer's trip we decided we're not staying under three nights in any place we actually wanted to see at all, as opposed to being a necessary stopover since we were travelling by train from Finland to Italy & France and back
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Jul 11, 2019 11:00
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Going to Spain with a company like that I'd stick to visiting two or three cities by train or plane and staying in as few hotels as possible. That'll give you plenty to do in 2 weeks and it'll be enjoyable. Cars are a terrible idea in western Europe unless you're mainly visiting rural destinations. Anything more than that will be a logistics ordeal without much time for enjoying anything. I guess there'll be jetlag too? Perhaps you could do a drive like that around Denmark but not around the Iberian peninsula.
Entropist fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 23:45
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Saladman posted:You could also maybe skip Granada if the travel connections to it are still garbage, Apparently the new rail to Granada already started in June, and the final connection to Seville will be complete in September: https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/granada-hs-line-opens-in-june/ That's fantastic news, Granada was such a hassle to reach for years. They're even adding a decent rail from Granada to Ronda! Although it won't be open for a while and the old line is still closed. That makes getting around the touristy parts of southern Spain so much easier without a car.
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Jul 12, 2019 10:43
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I am currently in the midst of 3.5 days in madrid+toledo and 3.5 days in Barcelona and I am feeling rushed. I have done porto/lisbon/sintra in a 9-day trip in the past and that felt like that was a very good timeframe for those cities.
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Jul 12, 2019 16:15
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So real talk to this thread since it comes up a lot: do you think everyone needs to do a miserably rushed trip to then in retrospect appreciate slower-paced city trips? I remember as a kid thinking it was kind of a shame that my parents would plan like, ten whole days in a single city like London or Paris (maybe doing a daytrip or two to somewhere outside), when we only went on vacations like every two or three years. Then as a young adult I did a couple trips of road trips with like 10 nights of 1 night stays in different cities, each city 100-300 km apart. They were a whirlwind and I felt like I saw and experienced so much, I realized like six months later that I had no idea where I'd been or what I'd seen, even though these were trips I'd organized and driven myself. I get the impression that like pretty much every backpacker who has ever gone through Europe for the first time on their own has made this same mistake, even for people who grew up in Europe. I think you might need the experience of failure to know that 3 nights in a major city isn't as much as it sounds like.
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Jul 12, 2019 19:41
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No, I've never done a super rushed trip, because it sounds super hellish. I fully appreciate taking my time, and always have. When I was a kid we used to spend decent amounts of time everywhere, and I generally take even longer now. But we never rushed then, either.
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Jul 12, 2019 20:04
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Omne posted:Not what I was getting at, but thanks. My man, it's supposed to be Euros not realizing how large the US is, not the other way around. (I'll understand if you're a fellow small stater though).
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Jul 12, 2019 23:53
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Saladman posted:So real talk to this thread since it comes up a lot: do you think everyone needs to do a miserably rushed trip to then in retrospect appreciate slower-paced city trips? This was pretty much my first trip to Europe. I did 17 cities in the UK and Ireland in just over a month (had the unlimited rail pass for one month). It definitely made me appreciate the slower-paced trips, but I wouldn’t call it a mistake. I had a great time, met a ton of interesting people and saw so many different places in three months going from Scotland to Sicily. At the time I didn’t know when or if I’d come back so I wanted to get as much in as I could. Since then I’ve been back multiple times though and spent a bit longer in places than I did my first trip, but honestly I’m not a huge fan of the long-stays (even in the big cities). I fully appreciate just how much there is to see in places like London, Paris, Rome, etc. but it’s not really my jam to post up in a city for a week+.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:12
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I have done organized tours of the US east coast and also of China with the same tour company. They're reasonably cheap for what you get to see, and they make sure you have a very decent amount of time at each actual stop in the itinerary, but on the other hand they really rush you between places. Shove you in a coach and then you drive for hours and then you have to get up drat early in the morning every morning to make it to the next place on schedule. It's fiiiine because all the organization and stuff is done for you by the tour guide so at least you don't have to worry about that, and you do see a lot of cool highlights that way but it's not the kind of holiday I'd do every year.
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Jul 13, 2019 08:27
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Grape posted:My man, it's supposed to be Euros not realizing how large the US is, not the other way around. I reckon 90% of the internet questions I see are Americans underestimating Europe rather than the reverse. Though I realise a lot of this is down to Americans and their godawful annual leave situation. People from everywhere underestimating the size of Australia is also a pretty common trope.
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Jul 13, 2019 12:56
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webmeister posted:I reckon 90% of the internet questions I see are Americans underestimating Europe rather than the reverse. Though I realise a lot of this is down to Americans and their godawful annual leave situation. Euros underestimate how long it takes to get around the US. Americans underestimate how much time to spend in a place.
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Jul 13, 2019 13:01
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I think it depends on your travel style. Some people appreciate the "journey" while some other people like to linger more. I have a spreadsheet that I plan my vacations out which has one column per day, each with 24 rows. I plan out all my travel time this way to visualize how much I am in each location, versus how much I am traveling in between locations. This method has been pretty successful in bringing most of my overstretched trips down to earth.
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Jul 13, 2019 14:16
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Anyway, actual thread content post (Or rather, request for thread content post) I’m leaving in two weeks for my August of bouncing around Yurop. My itinerary is mostly set-ish, I mostly just want things and places to do/see/eat/drink etc. in the following spots: Barcelona (and also Sitges) - will have a few days free in both, though a bunch of time will be taken up with organized/family stuff so don’t need as much here I guess. Budapest (will be in town about 5 days) Prague (will only be here for about 24-36 hours. Mainly just a waypoint that I figured I’d give a day too rather than taking a longer train ride to...) Berlin (4-5 days) Edinburgh (at least 5 days, specifically, will be there for the last week of Fringe, so if you have HOT COMEDY SHOW TIPS, I will be especially excited to get those. . I have the option to stick around for an extra day or two, as my flight home isn’t for another 5 days and is out of...) London (I may not bother hanging out in London much at all, other than flying out of Heathrow). The two things I haven’t sorted in terms of the actual itinerary are where I actually am going to stay in Berlin/London. I’m mostly working with a decade of accumulated hotel chain points, but any suggestions as far as ideal neighborhoods to stay in in either wouldn’t be unappreciated. Other than the first half of Barca time, I’ll be a 35 yo American dude travelling solo if that matters.
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Jul 13, 2019 14:30
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The only real way to travel around Europe is to rent a white convertible and go from village to village, buying bottles of wine.
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Jul 13, 2019 16:10
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CaptainPsyko posted:Euros underestimate how long it takes to get around the US. It seems like Americans are much more prone to what I like to call "checklist tourism". Go a place so you can tick a box on a list, maybe take an Instagrammable photo of you in front of a famous landmark, then move on to the next item on the list without taking any time to actually pause, get to know about other people and their way of life, and enjoy themselves. (I'm an American who's lived in Europe for the better part of a decade, so I say this out of love for my countrymen  )
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Jul 13, 2019 16:35
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An Australian family member is going to visit me (in Europe) in September for three days. She will be travelling for longer than she is here and I also have the impression it’s just for her “checklist”. She also wants to do a thousand things while she is here
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Jul 13, 2019 17:00
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Drone posted:It seems like Americans are much more prone to what I like to call "checklist tourism". Go a place so you can tick a box on a list, maybe take an Instagrammable photo of you in front of a famous landmark, then move on to the next item on the list without taking any time to actually pause, get to know about other people and their way of life, and enjoy themselves. I'm an American living in Europe for more than a decade, and most of the travel forums I use are in English, but I've also seen a lot of Europeans have itineraries like "land in California, do LA day 1, day 2 drive to Vegas, day 3, do Vegas and drive to Grand Canyon. Day 4 drive to Yosemite. Day 5 Yosemite and drive to Big Sur. Day 6 San Francisco. Day 7 fly back to Frankfurt." Like, there was even someone like that in T&T a couple months ago (not quite as bad as I make it out to be, but still: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3889355 ). I have seen a LOT of terrible Route 66 itineraries by Europeans that don't realize that driving 6-8 hours back to back for days is impossible. I think you just notice it here more in one direction if this is your predominant travel forum since the forum overall is overwhelmingly American/Canadian. Americans seem to have a much more realistic concept of how to do a roadtrip, but now how to do a trip to a bunch of small cities. Probably because, except for a small handful of cities, American cities are boring as hell and have nothing unique to entertain you after one or two days. Don't get me wrong, I like living in America, where then you care about bars, restaurants, concerts, etc, but a city like Nashville or Atlanta or Houston has about 2 days worth of strikingly-unique stuff for a tourist to do, max, even if the food and bar scene are great and they're perfectly enjoyable cities to live in, at least if their climates were transported to somewhere that wasn't in a boiling swamp. Compare that to a similarly-populous European city, and you'd have a hard time even finishing off the "must do super unique hits" checklist in 3 or 4 days. It's also possible there's a tendency for Americans to be worse at it given their relatively minimal paid-time-off compared to Europe, but I kind of think it's more a bias in the dataset. I have seen a lot of Europeans do instragram checklist tourism too. Saladman fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 17:49
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CaptainPsyko posted:Berlin (4-5 days) I think 5 days is right for Berlin. I'd spend at least a couple in London too if you've never been, there are some fantastic museums and heaps of great places to eat and drink. Go to the Wellcome Collection and then for a pint at the Euston Tap. For the Fringe, book ahead for a few things but leave some time to hang around some of the outdoor eating and drinking areas next to venues and see which fliers you pick up. You can sometimes get cheap tickets if a show hasn't quite sold enough a couple of hours before its start time, and sometimes the patter you get from the performer can lead you to see a show you might not otherwise have bothered with. Don't rely too heavily on the free shows because a lot of them are terrible. Try to see some theatre as well as comedy. Eat brunch at Mimi's Bakehouse in Leith. It's superb. And try a haggis burrito if you come across a stall selling them, it turns out haggis makes a great burrito meat.
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Jul 13, 2019 21:39
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i'm flying to prague for basically six full days/nights and plan on taking a train to dresden. 4 nights in prague, 2 in dresden make sense?
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Jul 15, 2019 00:13
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Is there a reason you particularly want/need to go to Dresden? Because personally I'd much rather spend all of that time in Prague.
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Jul 15, 2019 00:17
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Julio Cruz posted:Is there a reason you particularly want/need to go to Dresden? Because personally I'd much rather spend all of that time in Prague. Never been to Germany, it's an easy and inexpensive train ride, and I've heard nice things. I may stick to one night esp as the trains are very flexible
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Jul 15, 2019 00:24
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CaptainPsyko posted:The two things I haven’t sorted in terms of the actual itinerary are where I actually am going to stay in Berlin/London. I’m mostly working with a decade of accumulated hotel chain points, but any suggestions as far as ideal neighborhoods to stay in in either wouldn’t be unappreciated. Other than the first half of Barca time, I’ll be a 35 yo American dude travelling solo if that matters. For Berlin anywhere inside the Ringbahn would be fine to stay in. If you want to be particularly close to the happening areas I'd recommend the districts of Kreuzberg, Friedrichshain or Prenzlauer Berg.
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Jul 15, 2019 08:09
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I'm going to Italy to stay in Livorno for 9 days (with perhaps 2 days near Lake Garda before), and some time in Florence for work (terrible time of the year, I know). I guess it's gonna be a nice and non-rushed trip with lots of good food! Rome can happen some other time, that's probably better in autumn/spring anyway. I can do day trips to Pisa and Lucca and down the coast and all that.
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Jul 16, 2019 01:14
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We're staying 3 days in Poitiers and 4 in Bordeaux, any sights, daytrips or restaurants that are especially great? We travel by train (first day is this Thursday).
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Jul 16, 2019 18:59
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My wife and I could use a little advice for Barcelona. We’ll be there from Wednesday to Sunday, and we have a few things planned out: La Sagrada Familia, Parc Güell, day trip to Montserrat, chilling at Mar Bella, etc. The biggest thing I’m having trouble pinning down is where to go for nightlife. Every guide I’ve seen is catered towards teenagers/early 20’s who want to get lit, get wet, and get laid. We’re 30 — we just want to drink fancy cocktails on a roof or beach Wednesday and Thursday, and get some drinks and dance on the weekend. Can anyone recommend a couple of venues where we aren’t going to be bombarded by horny teenagers?
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Jul 16, 2019 20:42
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Aggro posted:My wife and I could use a little advice for Barcelona. We’ll be there from Wednesday to Sunday, and we have a few things planned out: La Sagrada Familia, Parc Güell, day trip to Montserrat, chilling at Mar Bella, etc. My wife and I have been here since March and we're in our 30s although we don't go out dancing we do enjoy fancy cocktails on roofs. You have to hit up Marea Alta / Marea Baja at the top of the tall building near Drassanes, can't miss it. The restaurant (Alta) has amazing seafood but is very expensive. The bar (Baja) is worth a stop though. Amazing views and some interesting gin and tonics (plus other cocktails of course). Along similar lines the W Hotel bar but I've never been, but from what I've heard it's popular for the views. Then a little outside the tourist area we really like a restaurant called Metric which has decent food and creative cocktails. I'm sure there are similar places less out of your way though. I'm a big fan of this anarchist bar if that sounds up your alley. You should probably go out at least one night in Gracia, it's less touristy and has a great atmosphere. Don't have any specific recommendations, just go to one of the squares and you'll have a good time. Not sure about dancing though. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'll come back if anything comes to mind.
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Jul 17, 2019 09:19
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SurgicalOntologist posted:My wife and I have been here since March and we're in our 30s although we don't go out dancing we do enjoy fancy cocktails on roofs. You have to hit up Marea Alta / Marea Baja at the top of the tall building near Drassanes, can't miss it. The restaurant (Alta) has amazing seafood but is very expensive. The bar (Baja) is worth a stop though. Amazing views and some interesting gin and tonics (plus other cocktails of course). Thanks! Definitely appreciate the tips. We were planning on seeing Parc Güell in the evening tomorrow and then getting dinner in Gracia, which should be fun. Our hotel is in Eixample, so we’ll also be able to walk around there and down Las Ramblas to the Gothic Quarter. We’re both looking forward to it, especially since it’s been 38-42° every goddamn day in Madrid.
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Jul 17, 2019 10:31
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i have an option to switch a flight from Monday to wed or thurs for little to no cost and spend a few days in Milan...... what are some lesser known fun things to do? and what would be a good area to stay in? i.e. - trasteverde in rome is a fantastic, lesser known neighboorhood thats got a great scene.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:37
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Waroduce posted:i have an option to switch a flight from Monday to wed or thurs for little to no cost and spend a few days in Milan...... what are some lesser known fun things to do? and what would be a good area to stay in? i.e. - trasteverde in rome is a fantastic, lesser known neighboorhood thats got a great scene. The Navigli area is fun, although if you're solo then it's maybe less interesting as it's mainly about the bars and restaurants. Also not sure when you're going, but keep in mind that Milan is mostly closed during the entire month of August, so most places that aren't a hotspot for foreign tourists will be totally dead, with even some major chain grocery stores closing down for at least a couple weeks of August. Navigli will still be nice in August. If you like food at all, check out Eataly, which is a fun high-end grocery store chain. With extra days in Milan, I'd suggest taking at least one of those days and going to Lake Como, like taking the train up to Varenna, which is direct and just over an hour if you time it right, then you can walk around, take a boat to Bellagio and wander around, then back to Varenna, and then train back to Milan after dinner or something. The town of Como itself is OK but the middle of the lake is much prettier than the southern tip). Milan itself is nice enough although it doesn't have any super famous attractions. There are lots of nice churches and palaces and the fortress is neat, but if you live in Europe or have travelled around a lot, you've probably seen more interesting cathedrals and palaces elsewhere. I am also pretty personally burned out on churches and European palaces, so take my recommendation with a grain of salt. Milan is awesome for walking around, eating, and drinking though, I guess like an Italian version of Houston: good food, lots of stuff to do for locals living there, some nice things to see if not particularly unique nor spectacular, and a hot muggy climate.
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Jul 17, 2019 17:03
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Milan does have Leonardo's The Last Supper, though you have to book way in advance. It's basically the polar opposite of seeing the Mona Lisa - it's bigger than you expect, and you're in a small group in a darkened room. Unlike the Mona Lisa where you have to elbow through hordes of selfie taking idiots
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Jul 17, 2019 17:19
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I'm going to Corfu for a week, I'd like to visit Albania while I'm there as well and it's just nearby. I found some tour operators that offer a package tour including a ferry, but I'm wondering if it's feasible to just book a ferry and forego the tour? We don't like having a guide and would just like to look around by ourselves. Does anyone have experience with this?
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Jul 17, 2019 17:20
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Aggro posted:Thanks! Definitely appreciate the tips. We were planning on seeing Parc Güell in the evening tomorrow and then getting dinner in Gracia, which should be fun. Our hotel is in Eixample, so we’ll also be able to walk around there and down Las Ramblas to the Gothic Quarter. We’re both looking forward to it, especially since it’s been 38-42° every goddamn day in Madrid. Nice, have fun! I consulted my list of recommendations we haven't tried yet and I've got a few more suggestions that sound up your alley: Slow, Marmalade, and Mirablau.
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Jul 17, 2019 17:30
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Shibawanko posted:I'm going to Corfu for a week, I'd like to visit Albania while I'm there as well and it's just nearby. I found some tour operators that offer a package tour including a ferry, but I'm wondering if it's feasible to just book a ferry and forego the tour? We don't like having a guide and would just like to look around by ourselves. Does anyone have experience with this? Why not just go to one of the ferry websites and buy the ticket? https://www.finikas-lines.com/ That website is more than happy to just sell you the ticket to Albania although at €24pp/one way it's kind of pricey especially if you're just doing a day trip. E: sorry if that sounds snitty, I’m iust actually not sure if I understand your question. Those are normal ferries and not like, Thomas Cook charter flights, where you have to book the entire tour to take the plane Saladman fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 18:30
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I'm going to berlin for a company trip in the middle of august for a week. I'm staying pretty close to the center by checkpoint charlie. what should I do
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