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The Skeleton King posted:I usually expect developers to use clever tricks and shortcuts to make games do all kinds of poo poo without sacrificing performance. Star Citizen is one of the few times I’ve seen where the developer thinks they are too good to do these things. Officially. They're doing them. They're just really bad at doing them.
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Jul 13, 2019 00:27
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The Skeleton King posted:It's interesting because this is a very practical and realistic approach to something that would be near impossible otherwise. It's the mark of a good developer when they come up with clever solutions like this instead of trying to render a billion moving parts in real time. Meanwhile, Star Citizen is going to simulate localised ship gravity through a series of plates and pipes: quote:Localized Artificial Gravity (LAG) is a fictitious technology in the Star Citizen universe that allows for counteracting or generating gravitational forces on demand. LAG setup consists of three parts:
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Jul 13, 2019 01:57
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ah yes a series of tubes
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Jul 13, 2019 03:35
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The Skeleton King posted:I usually expect developers to use clever tricks and shortcuts to make games do all kinds of poo poo without sacrificing performance. Star Citizen is one of the few times I’ve seen where the developer thinks they are too good to do these things. Was gonna say it seems clear this is a developer who hasn't really been making games for over a decade or two, but then again game development in the 80s and 90s consisted of almost nothing but desperately trying to wring out the last drop of performance from extremely limited hardware and software.
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Jul 13, 2019 04:55
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Somewhere there's a post from an old 8 bit dev chuckling about how modern projects like Star Citizen dump millions of dollars into creating a new tech to render procedural snow crystals or something and he was begging for like, purple.
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Jul 13, 2019 06:21
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That said, with every quantum leap in storage and data the first thing devs do is immediately set out to fill it up with bloat.
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Jul 13, 2019 07:20
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That said, with every quantum leap in storage and data the first thing devs do is immediately set out to fill it up with bloat. me irl
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Jul 13, 2019 07:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That said, with every quantum leap in storage and data the first thing devs do is immediately set out to fill it up with bloat. Why I got fat.txt
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Jul 13, 2019 08:00
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Elderbean posted:I didn't back Spacebase but I wanted it to be a thing because I love simulation games. I really want a Dwarf Fortress esque game but with some nice isometric graphics. oxygen not included is scratching that itch for me. It has the same losing is fun thing going on. The biggest difference is the fact that its purely in 2d and in sideways view instead of overhead view of df.
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Jul 13, 2019 08:13
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Sardonik posted:So here's an interesting article in how Warframe will avoid the physics calculations of players in a ship moving around a level: it's very limited too and an apple/orangens comparison to put here since that particular Warframe thing has barely any similarities to space combat Star Elevators was once aiming for. Warframe development is cool in it's own way for plenty of reasons, but not this one in the given context.
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Jul 13, 2019 12:28
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Fashionable Jorts posted:No Man's Sky will never not be a pile of poo poo, and I hate how people have essentially forgiven the game simply because they've added some new content to it. Ugh I hate how people don't hate thing like I do too
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Jul 13, 2019 13:02
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Dark Off posted:oxygen not included is scratching that itch for me. It has the same losing is fun thing going on.
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Jul 13, 2019 15:05
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Runaktla posted:Idk about Oxygen Not Included being losing is fun, kinda easy, I’ve only lost one duplicant, ever, been playing it a while. Love the game though. I suck poo poo at ONI and the only instances where I lose individual duplicants is when they accidentally entomb themselves and they suffocate before someone else comes to dig them out. The difficulty (for me, anyway) comes when I realize I'm not producing enough of X or Y and my colony has entered a death spiral. It's very all-or-nothing.
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Jul 13, 2019 15:35
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haldolium posted:it's very limited too and an apple/orangens comparison to put here since that particular Warframe thing has barely any similarities to space combat Star Elevators was once aiming for. Warframe development is cool in it's own way for plenty of reasons, but not this one in the given context. Warframe has elevators in it you can ride semi-safely (as long as Host Migration doesnt happen)
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Jul 13, 2019 17:35
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Shanghaied posted:Meanwhile, Star Citizen is going to simulate localised ship gravity through a series of plates and pipes: i feel like Space Engineers does so much more than Star Citizen even claims to, but it actually works and is just as janky and hosed up as you'd expect a mulitplayer physics simulation to be
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Jul 13, 2019 18:22
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Cube World
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Jul 13, 2019 23:20
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Cube??!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aGDCE6Nrz0 The fun cannot be halted. Unlike Star Citizen, where the fun is not to be had at all.
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Jul 14, 2019 08:03
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a new study bible! posted:Cube World how dare you
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Jul 15, 2019 21:27
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haldolium posted:it's very limited too and an apple/orangens comparison to put here since that particular Warframe thing has barely any similarities to space combat Star Elevators was once aiming for. Warframe development is cool in it's own way for plenty of reasons, but not this one in the given context. Even if the gameplay isn't an exact match, I think it is very related to Star Citizen's journey. In Warframe, you see this ship combat mixed with ground combat stuff, something identified as core to the original vision of the game, deferred and put off in favor of shipping a product. You see a game that has been improved upon gradually, with more and more features layered on, with continual improvements. You see a game that actually knows what a game is. In Warframe, and Elite: Dangerous you see how a game the ambition of Star Citizen can actually be made, starting from a solid core and working outwards. The core of Star Citizen is clearly rotten, frankly I don't think it will ever amount to anything other than laughs for us.
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Jul 15, 2019 23:39
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Jul 16, 2019 08:33
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Sardonik posted:Even if the gameplay isn't an exact match, I think it is very related to Star Citizen's journey. In Warframe, you see this ship combat mixed with ground combat stuff, something identified as core to the original vision of the game, deferred and put off in favor of shipping a product. You see a game that has been improved upon gradually, with more and more features layered on, with continual improvements. You see a game that actually knows what a game is. In Warframe, and Elite: Dangerous you see how a game the ambition of Star Citizen can actually be made, starting from a solid core and working outwards. The core of Star Citizen is clearly rotten, frankly I don't think it will ever amount to anything other than laughs for us. Overall, the WF dev is a very positive example in the industry. But not necessarily in detailed tech elements like this. But yeah, SC will probably remain a joke throughout it's life which has not even began.
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Jul 16, 2019 12:01
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Fashionable Jorts posted:No Man's Sky will never not be a pile of poo poo, and I hate how people have essentially forgiven the game simply because they've added some new content to it. No Man's Sky proves there's a multiverse, because the people who made it are clearly from a place where Spore was a smash hit that deserved adoration and blatant imitation (but with a slight twist, like maybe a dab of Minecraft). They pretty much delivered what they promised and I just don't understand why anyone thought it would be good. Heck yeah, lets explore countless procedurally generated worlds that are all slightly different in ways that don't matter at all and are loving boring in all the ways that do.
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Jul 16, 2019 12:49
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The Skeleton King posted:I usually expect developers to use clever tricks and shortcuts to make games do all kinds of poo poo without sacrificing performance. Star Citizen is one of the few times I’ve seen where the developer thinks they are too good to do these things. reminder that croberts flew into a rage when he discovered artists were using UV/normal maps which he deemed to be cheating shitizens out of their fidelitous polygons
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Jul 16, 2019 13:45
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Banano posted:reminder that croberts flew into a rage when he discovered artists were using UV/normal maps which he deemed to be cheating shitizens out of their fidelitous polygons lol I forgot about this 
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Jul 16, 2019 14:24
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i started playing Warframe Friday and it is insanely cool and basically a 3D Mega Man Zero game, I’m really really enjoying it
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Jul 16, 2019 14:26
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:No Man's Sky proves there's a multiverse, because the people who made it are clearly from a place where Spore was a smash hit that deserved adoration and blatant imitation (but with a slight twist, like maybe a dab of Minecraft). It's a lot better than it used to be, but yes the content is sort of yawn inducing and it doesn't make up for the fact that they sort of hosed everyone back in 2016. That being said, I have a soft spot for games that let me have a cool house of my very own so it has that going for it. I'm also curious to see what it'll be like in VR.
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Jul 16, 2019 14:44
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food court bailiff posted:i started playing Warframe Friday and it is insanely cool and basically a 3D Mega Man Zero game, I’m really really enjoying it Can you do the ship stuff from the update right now? I've been wanting to give it a try.
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Jul 16, 2019 14:47
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Blurry Gray Thing posted:They pretty much delivered what they promised and I just don't understand why anyone thought it would be good. Heck yeah, lets explore countless procedurally generated worlds that are all slightly different in ways that don't matter at all and are loving boring in all the ways that do.
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Jul 16, 2019 15:15
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food court bailiff posted:i started playing Warframe Friday and it is insanely cool and basically a 3D Mega Man Zero game, I’m really really enjoying it If you like archery and/or stealth, I would recommend trying to get a hold of the Paris Prime bow. Then mod it to always crit and to penetrate doors (and other cover) and watch arrows send enemy ragdolls flying across the room and get nailed to the opposite wall without anyone hearing you shoot. 
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Jul 16, 2019 16:35
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Rad-daddio posted:Can you do the ship stuff from the update right now? I've been wanting to give it a try. im doing it on Switch (which, loving how is this game running on the switch at this frame rate) and I think the switch version is a few updates behind but I don’t think it’s out for anyone yet Bofast posted:If you like archery and/or stealth, I would recommend trying to get a hold of the Paris Prime bow. Then mod it to always crit and to penetrate doors (and other cover) and watch arrows send enemy ragdolls flying across the room and get nailed to the opposite wall without anyone hearing you shoot. I was really digging stealth in the prologue questline but most of the missions I have access to now are like defense and stuff that doesn’t really benefit from stealth. still, the bows look cool AF and I’m itching to start grinding one up, my first real (non-MK-1) primary is a burston that I bought a blueprint for and I’m liking it more than I expected
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Jul 17, 2019 00:00
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drat, I haven't kept up with Star Citizen for years up until that article that bashed the money management pretty hard... and Roberts' weird love affairs. Glad all that money paid off so
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Jul 17, 2019 00:26
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food court bailiff posted:im doing it on Switch (which, loving how is this game running on the switch at this frame rate) and I think the switch version is a few updates behind but I don’t think it’s out for anyone yet I've never tried a Burston that I can recall, but as long as you're enjoying it, cool  Yeah, stealth as a whole is not for that many mission types, though silent weapons can be useful for taking out enemies one by one without their allies around them having an opportunity to detect the sound of gunfire. For defense, mobile defense, capture, extermination and survival missions, you can pretty much ignore the sound aspect so I like to run around with a Sonicor as secondary in such missions for crowd control, decent damage and hilarious ragdolling. The Warframe wiki should have info on where you can acquire various crafting materials for building specific weapons or equipment and there's a Warframe thread somewhere around here where people can probably answer most of your questions.
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Jul 17, 2019 01:30
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Starcitizen still regularly has player models and ships clipping, getting stuck in solid objects, deforming wildly, or spinning off into space. They could have used conventional rendering shortcuts on a suitable engine but instead they have this weird hacked together nightmare in the name of more "authentic" physics.
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Jul 17, 2019 02:06
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I haven't really paid much attention to Star Citizen after the memes got moved to their own forum but since I play a lot of space sims and exploration games I still get an algorithm showing me Star Citizen stuff occasionally So basically they have a bunch of tech demos that are really pretty and the past decade has been a conga line of tech demos so it seems like it shouldn't be too hard to develop a functional game from what they already have but they seem to just keep on making tech demos and then moving on to the next tech demo This is weird because you would think that developing the basis for the tech demos would be the hard part of making something resembling a final product but I don't know too much about game development tbh, all I know is that I'm easily entertained by space opera stuff and would probably buy a game made up of the parts that they've already shown if it was sufficiently polished
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Jul 17, 2019 03:15
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tbh i just want elite dangerous but the ability to walk around on my ship and space stations because slow and boring is a plus for me in science fiction
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Jul 17, 2019 03:17
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Banano posted:reminder that croberts flew into a rage when he discovered artists were using UV/normal maps which he deemed to be cheating shitizens out of their fidelitous polygons Wait, what?? I've been out of the game development scene for a while, but why would you not want at least a UV map? Or is everything procedurally done for SC?
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Jul 17, 2019 03:39
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Fojar38 posted:This is weird because you would think that developing the basis for the tech demos would be the hard part of making something resembling a final product but I don't know too much about game development tbh It's the exact opposite. Making something good enough to demo in controlled conditions is easy. Making something that has enough content to be called a game and that doesn't fall apart once people start monkeying with it is hard.
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Jul 17, 2019 04:58
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GodDamnArtist posted:Wait, what?? I've been out of the game development scene for a while, but why would you not want at least a UV map? Or is everything procedurally done for SC? I took one course on game design in uni and didn't do very well. What's the implication of not having a UV map? As far as I can see it'd mean you can't use textures?
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Jul 17, 2019 10:55
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Fojar38 posted:tbh i just want elite dangerous but the ability to walk around on my ship and space stations because slow and boring is a plus for me in science fiction You can technically do that in Star Trek Online? Main problem is Star Citizen is a vanity project first and a game somewhere far down the priority list.
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Jul 17, 2019 11:31
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That Dang Lizard posted:I took one course on game design in uni and didn't do very well. What's the implication of not having a UV map? As far as I can see it'd mean you can't use textures? UV maps are just textures on the UV coordinate space of a mesh (basically the XY plane that "wraps" around the mesh). Normal maps take the surface or vertex "normals" - which are just the directions the lighting engine uses to measure how much light a point on the surface gets - and bakes them into textures. You do this and then you can reduce the polygon count of the mesh - keeping the UV coordinates as similar as possible - and put the normal map on top. This way you can render an insane amount of detail on a lower-resolution mesh. You also get some other benefits like scaling detail depending on graphics settings or distance (i.e. you render a lower quality version of the normal map at long-range to save even more rendering power). It's all optimization that's been standard-issue for ages. He was mad about this because it meant ~lower fidelity~ models. Nobody would be able to see this, but when "bigger is always better" is your entire business model you don't really care.
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Jul 17, 2019 11:38
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