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We should do a rewatch of the later half of Season 2, after the death of Leeland. You will see that I was right to skip most of it 
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Aug 9, 2019 11:36
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Jerusalem posted:I actually finally watched all of Twin Peaks for the first time back in 2017, and only completed Fire Walk With Me about 2-3 weeks into season 3. So yes, unlike the rest of the world there was literally ZERO downtime for me between the end of the first TV run and film and watching season 3. 
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Aug 9, 2019 12:22
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People bring up the James roadtrip stuff as the most awful poo poo in season 2 and while it is pretty terrible, Catherine dressing up in really bad yellowface takes the cake for me.
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Aug 9, 2019 13:10
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AstroWhale posted:We should do a rewatch of the later half of Season 2, after the death of Leeland. You will see that I was right to skip most of it Skipping stuff in Twin Peaks is like refusing to face your shadow self. You have imperfect courage and will never make it through to the White Lodge with that attitude.
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Aug 9, 2019 14:30
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Basebf555 posted:Skipping stuff in Twin Peaks is like refusing to face your shadow self. You have imperfect courage and will never make it through to the White Lodge with that attitude.  The Catherine stuff is bad, though.
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Aug 9, 2019 14:50
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This is so cool! Now feels like the perfect time for a truly proper rewatch of Season 3. There is just SO much to dig into, and it was all so overwhelming and happened SO quickly. For example, most of us watch the first four episodes all at once, more or less (though I did try and pace myself over two nights) but it did kinda feel like the show got up on its feet and running *snaps finger* just like that, in terms of setting up the narratives and setting them going. It's actually really cool, in a way. A lot of us longtime fans spent a while trying to figure out how you could pick up the series again, given the cliffhanger that season 2 ended on and the aging of the characters, and I honestly don't ever remember hearing the suggestion "Well, Lynch could just wind up waiting 25 years more or less and revisit everyone when "The Good Dale" gets out of the lodge!" I mean, someone probably did suggest it, but it's such a ridiculous idea, in a way. I really think something like that HAS to happen more because of luck and coincidence than Lynch orchestrating it that way. I still can't get over how downright amazing it is that Fire Walk With Me premiered in May 1992 at Cannes, and then exactly 25 years later Season 3 premieres at Cannes in May 2017. It's tough to achieve that sort "real life symmetry" with your work, and being able to cast almost every single actor wanted/needed from the original show, with truly only a very small number of exceptions... Anyway. Season 3 just feels like it's an almost impossible product - something so experimental, subversive, and obliquely mysterious in meaning, that under normal circumstances nobody making something like that would be given anywhere near the amount of needed money. Seriously - it is clearly not a show that cares about demographic appeal, product placement, etc and/or whatever metrics and stats networks are using these days to create needed guidelines in their show to ensure maximum accessibility and possible return on the dollar... ALL that crap. I know it's not news, but even when I'm watching good or even great TV sometimes, it can be extremely distracting or troubling when there's some product logo in perfect focus that doesn't NEED to be in perfect focus, or it feels like things such as nudity/sex and/or gore is being used to cynically keep certain fans happy... It goes on and on. Twin Peaks Seaspm 3 is kinda... radically different in that you can really feel that no focus groups or network executives were involved in the cuts you're watching, and it's very clear that Lynch got the final say and got to do just what he wanted. Which is not to say that there aren't indulgences that Lynch takes, but they are at least his indulgences. Some of them I love, like when he films a dramatic scene with a totally static shot. Some might kinda bother me, where both Lynch's character and his camera are taking an extended look at Chrysta Bell's butt as she walks wiggling her hips. But hey, that's why they're called indulgences! And at least it's honest and straightforward as opposed to watching some TV show and noticing how especially sexy they are shooting the shot of the main character drinking a Coca-Cola. I always find that stuff a bit more weird.
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Aug 9, 2019 15:25
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Hakkesshu posted:People bring up the James roadtrip stuff as the most awful poo poo in season 2 and while it is pretty terrible, Catherine dressing up in really bad yellowface takes the cake for me. Yeah, what the gently caress were they thinking with that plotline. It was ridiculous even by 1991 standards.
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Aug 9, 2019 19:58
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SeANMcBAY posted:Yeah, what the gently caress were they thinking with that plotline. It was ridiculous even by 1991 standards. I think it was just the soap opera influence. That's the kind of bullshit you'd see in 80's and 90s soap operas where people were constantly faking their own deaths and reappearing in the most ridiculous ways possible. Specifically regarding the yellow face though, no I don't think it was that ridiculous for 1991, a huge hit show like Twin Peaks could definitely still get away with something like that back then.
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Aug 9, 2019 20:06
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A 1-2 episode per week rewatch would be very cool. Sign me up. I'd love to get into S3 dicussions and how it reframes the rest of the series now that it's all over. Rewatching FWWM in a crowded theatre last week was super interesting. More laughs than I expected during the first half of the movie, especially the Deer Meadows scenes. Someone got very excited for David Bowie. Pretty much everybody laughed anytime James was onscreen. Pink Room scene was totally mesmerizing. Old couple walked out of the theatre after Leland/Bob rape scene. Few people moved when it ended, most needed to just sit there and absorb those last 20 minutes and watch the credits. Clear now just how much S3 was a continuation of FWWM than the series itself.
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Aug 10, 2019 08:09
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kaworu posted:(...)  Well, I am feeling better now.
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Aug 10, 2019 08:31
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I realized the dreamer poem has a super straightforward interpretation. "We are like the dreamer who dreams and lives inside the dream." This is said inside of a dream. Cole is the dreamer who is living inside his dream. "But who is the dreamer?" In this dream, Cole remembers cooper talking about his dream. Jeffries, mistakes coop for Mr. C. So who is Coop? Who is the dreamer? Its like Coles subconscious putting the pieces together and realizing who Mr. C is.
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Aug 10, 2019 16:42
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Hakkesshu posted:People bring up the James roadtrip stuff as the most awful poo poo in season 2 and while it is pretty terrible, Catherine dressing up in really bad yellowface takes the cake for me. I think it's fascinating that James' road trip ineptly tries to do what season three accomplishes: Expanding Twin Peaks to all of America. Both show that evil has started to spread all across the country. Even though James left town to get away from it all, he can't escape. The violent end to the subplot is even shot with similar slowing down effects as Maddy's death. If we're gonna do a rewatch, we should probably decide what bits belong to Twin Peaks. Do we watch the international pilot? What about the Missing Pieces? Also, I think short breaks between season two, the movie and season three would be a good idea. FWWM is pretty exhausting.
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Aug 12, 2019 08:49
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If you're not watching the log lady intros you're not watching it right.
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Aug 12, 2019 08:58
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And More posted:Also, I think short breaks between season two, the movie and season three would be a good idea. FWWM is pretty exhausting.
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Aug 12, 2019 09:08
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James was always cool.   
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Aug 12, 2019 19:48
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I first saw Twin Peaks on VHS tapes when I was a kid, and so I saw the international pilot. The scene where Laura's mom remembers Bob crouching behind the bed hosed me up really bad, but then when I rewatched the series years later it wasn't the international pilot so I was really confused when those scenes were missing. For a while I convinced myself it was just something I maybe had a nightmare about and then misremembered that it wasn't an actual scene from the show. Eventually I read about what happened and I think it's great that for a while I had this nightmare of Bob that I thought was like, all my own, created by my own nightmares. Very Lynchian. Anyway, I think the international pilot is better if just for that scene alone. It's absolutely terrifying.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:02
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Basebf555 posted:I first saw Twin Peaks on VHS tapes when I was a kid, and so I saw the international pilot. Didn't that scene end up in the second episode (the one after the pilot)?
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Aug 12, 2019 20:29
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Yeah, it’s definitely in the show somewhere.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:35
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I think it does but it's not the same because if I remember correctly she Edit: Yea, looking it up on youtube it appears that in Episode 2 you get a flash of Bob behind the bed when she's talking to Laura but without all that preamble where you've got her going up the stairs and then her POV of slowly looking across the room and then eventually noticing the face. Much less disturbing without that buildup. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 20:46
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There’s a meme that’s been going around that basically says people who watch scary movies alone are soulless psychos, which made me think, “ya know, I haven’t found a movie actually scary in years”. But just now thinking about that scene gave me goosebumps. God drat you David Lynch. It’s literally just a dude with a creepy smile and yet just the mental image of it gives me the heebie jeebies.
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Aug 13, 2019 05:56
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A large part I think is the juxtaposition of the ordinary with the surreal. Like, he's just a dude with a creepy smile but he's somewhere he absolutely 100% should not be, with no explanation, his presence is alien and unwelcome, a corruption and a curse. Everything about him screams that not only should he not be there, he himself should not be. It's loving amazing, the whole thing was an accident when he happened to show up in frame while crewing on the set, right?
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Aug 13, 2019 08:45
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I recently rewatched season 1 for the third time and this was the first time I actually saw the actor playing Bob in the mirror frame. I never would have seen it if I didn't know where to look, but it's just such a good detail it's hard to think it was an accident.
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Aug 13, 2019 10:23
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Jerusalem posted:A large part I think is the juxtaposition of the ordinary with the surreal. Like, he's just a dude with a creepy smile but he's somewhere he absolutely 100% should not be, with no explanation, his presence is alien and unwelcome, a corruption and a curse. Everything about him screams that not only should he not be there, he himself should not be. Yeah, he originally showed up in actually in an out-of-focus reflection right in the bottom of one of the oval-shaped mirrors on the walls of the Palmer house. It happens at the very end of the ("normal" version? American version?) of the Pilot, when Sarah Palmer has the vision of the gloved hand of Dr. Jacoby, which I always thought was a little silly in retrospect taking the recently-buried half-heart necklace home to his Coconut of Secrecy. Anyway, BOB's reflection is in that shot where she sits up screaming. Frank Silva was the lead set dresser and kinda got himself trapped behind the furniture while getting things ready for the shot, which I suppose began sooner than he expected. So he crouched down to make sure he was totally out of the frame, but neglected to think about reflections - and apparently nobody noticed at first! It's frankly a deeply creepy moment when you first see it, no matter how many times you may have seen the show there is something deeply unsettling about the way he ended up in that particular shot. I can see why it inspired Lynch. And just to say it again, I really am feeling pretty inspired to watch the show from the very beginning and just... Take notes, be an active and participatory viewer without reading too much craziness into things. I recently did watch some of the Pilot again, and there are just so many deliberate and precise details that one tends to ignore when usually watching a show like that, even from the very start. Like how there's actually something of a coherent plotline in Invitation to Love we catch glimpses of which mirrors the events of the show itself in a somewhat distorted/exaggerated way. On a separate note... I feel like this must have been brought up at some point since Season 3 finished airing for sure, but I can't remember it. In season 1 even, we have the character of Maddie showing up, who is "Laura's cousin from Missoula Montana", but frankly, she has to be some sort of doppleganger of Laura in retrospect, no? Or is it a coincidence that Laura has a 'cousin' who looks absolutely identical to her? I mean.. I know that Lynch introduced the character of Maddy largely because he wanted to give Sheryl Lee more to do, since her performance as Laura's corpse was already becoming iconic. But after season 3, it's very difficult not to look at Maddy's character through the same lens, knowing what we do about Laura's creation and the dopplegangers. Maybe it doesn't truly matter, I don't know - but it sure does make me wonder what ended up happening to Maddie in the timeline where Laura simply "goes missing" from Twin Peaks. Actually, it seems like the sort of question Mark Frost would answer in a way that leaves little room for wide-eyed dreamlike mystery in "The Final Dossier".. well, I haven't read it but I did read the first one, and while it had good parts I felt like it answered too many questions in a way that was just... not good. I don't think people watch a show like Twin Peaks because they want realistic/grounded answers for the mysterious/mystical goings on, rather they want to be drawn further into the mystery. It's boring if the rabbit hole is just a dead-end, not a path to Wonderland...
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Aug 13, 2019 18:36
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I feel like Bob wouldn't have killed Maddie if she was a doppleganger, because she'd be on the same side? But also he feasts on sorrow and Horny Jimmy was pretty sad when she died
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Aug 13, 2019 18:58
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Yea I think doppelgangers are a theme as well as a literal plot point, and Maddie furthers the theme but I don't see her as a literal doppelganger. If anything, maybe it implies that Leland slept with her mother and is actually Maddie's father. It's hard to say what happens with Maddie if Laura disappears, because maybe she still comes to Twin Peaks to comfort the family and is killed by Bob in a similar way. Or maybe not.
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Aug 13, 2019 19:12
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kaworu posted:Yeah, he originally showed up in actually in an out-of-focus reflection right in the bottom of one of the oval-shaped mirrors on the walls of the Palmer house. It happens at the very end of the ("normal" version? American version?) of the Pilot, when Sarah Palmer has the vision of the gloved hand of Dr. Jacoby, which I always thought was a little silly in retrospect taking the recently-buried half-heart necklace home to his Coconut of Secrecy. Anyway, BOB's reflection is in that shot where she sits up screaming. Frank Silva was the lead set dresser and kinda got himself trapped behind the furniture while getting things ready for the shot, which I suppose began sooner than he expected. So he crouched down to make sure he was totally out of the frame, but neglected to think about reflections - and apparently nobody noticed at first! I think we might be minority opinion on this, but I was kind of lukewarm on the Mark Frost books too. They read like fan fiction to me, plus I got a little tired of the whole conceit of them being an actual file. Anyway, lets watch this poo poo!
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Aug 13, 2019 19:52
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The single most consistent theme in David Lynch's body of work is probably duality. It's expressed by many different methods across his shows and movies, and there's nothing that says each one is limited to only one method. I wouldn't subscribe to any theory that Maddie is a doppelganger or tulpa in the same in-universe way that Mr. C or Dougie or Diane are, that seems limiting; it's just one way the theme of duality manifests. S3 is also actually remarkably straightforward about telling us who's a doppelganger/tulpa/misc lounge creature, if Lynch had any intent to define Maddie as one even retroactively to the original show, he could very easily have done it.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:44
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“everyone who made fun of karowu is a jerk!” *kaworu reminds us exactly why people made fun of him* 
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Aug 13, 2019 21:16
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Escobarbarian posted:“everyone who made fun of karowu is a jerk!” Well, I didn't say anyone who made fun of me is a jerk (though it's a nice feeling to have someone stand up for you). I have a hard time staying too mad at anyone. Besides, making fun of me is like.... beating up that painfully earnest skinny boy with glasses who talked too much in a nasal voice during class in middle school - it might be easy and satisfying at the time, but it leaves you feeling empty and maybe a little mean? Anyway, there are just so many little precisely placed details and themes and concepts Lynch deals with (duality is definitely a big one, the corruption of the innocent, and so on) which actually remains coherent and consistent across the near-30 year history of the show. Most 'showrunners' struggle to keep themes and ideas consistent just from one season to the next. One of the really cool things about Twin Peaks is how Lynch has managed to recreate the same kind of 'energy' or 'magic' through all the different incarnations of Twin Peaks. And let's not kid ourselves - first it was a one-shot pilot filmed in the Northwest, then it was a Network series filmed in Southern California for 2 seasons, then it was an art film that premiered at Cannes - and finally it was... whatever season 3 is! I don't think we've had enough 18-hour art films broken into sections and interspersed with largely unrelated live music to properly compare it to.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:25
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My Lovely Horse posted:The single most consistent theme in David Lynch's body of work is probably duality. It's expressed by many different methods across his shows and movies, and there's nothing that says each one is limited to only one method. I wouldn't subscribe to any theory that Maddie is a doppelganger or tulpa in the same in-universe way that Mr. C or Dougie or Diane are, that seems limiting; it's just one way the theme of duality manifests. Something that really sets apart Twin Peaks from Lynch's other work is that the narrative actually incorporates thematic elements into the mystery plot. Spirits, doppelgängers and tulpas have a thematic value, but this value is not completely divorced from the plot. So, when you're asking: "What's the meaning of BOB", you'll find that Albert is asking the same question, and he's even willing to give a compelling answer: "The evil that men do." So, I think it's fair to ask what Maddy is, even though I'm not sure there is an answer. She shares a lot of similarities with Diane's tulpa, certainly. They both look identical to their "original" versions, and this is used to deceive other people. Both have to experience the trauma of their double a second time, either by remembering the rape vividly or by being killed in the same fashion. Despite that, 25 years later, the town still mourns Laura's death, while Maddy is completely forgotten. It's the fate of all doubles. Some viewers didn't like how quickly Tammy got excited about tulpas right after killing Diane, but maybe that's just a normal reaction. As Diane herself says: "Cooper, the one and only." Doppelgängers, tulpas and cousins don't count.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:43
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So, will we be watching all 3 seasons and FWWM? One episode per week, presumably with holiday breaks? Cuz I'm super on board for that.
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Aug 15, 2019 19:48
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FlavoFibe posted:So, will we be watching all 3 seasons and FWWM? One episode per week, presumably with holiday breaks? Cuz I'm super on board for that.
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Aug 15, 2019 20:37
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Start at season 1!
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Aug 15, 2019 23:26
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Jerusalem posted:A large part I think is the juxtaposition of the ordinary with the surreal. Like, he's just a dude with a creepy smile but he's somewhere he absolutely 100% should not be, with no explanation, his presence is alien and unwelcome, a corruption and a curse. Everything about him screams that not only should he not be there, he himself should not be. To be honest, I never liked the shot where he's seen peeking through the bedframe - he looks too furtive and nervous, like they hadn't quite figured out the manic, feral confidence of his character yet. But the first time I saw the post-'Just You and I' vision, when Bob strolls into the living room, then begins to crawl over the sofa *towards the screen*? That made me yelp out loud, for exactly the reasons you mention. He arrives as an interruption of pure monstrousness, literally bursting into this dreamy circle of teenagers earnestly singing their terrible song, breaking the spell that's been cast.
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Aug 16, 2019 08:12
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Well, I don’t know that I’m the most reliable person to start the rewatch... But if I were running it, I would make the weekly watch time at more or less the same time slot Season 3 had - Sunday night at 9:00? Would it be going overboard if someone streamed the episode somewhere, to allow for live chat (either text or audio)? However, I’d honestly prefer we keep as much discussion as possible in the thread, and maybe just use the “weekly watch time” as a point of reference for what episode we have gotten up to. Another question is about the use of spoiler tags; given that (I think) the vast majority of us have seen the whole series, I’d rather eschew spoiler tags entirely - from my perspective, the really interesting part of this rewatch is going to be looking at it within the context of all the new stuff, of course. I’m honestly curious to see what does ad does not seem to fit with Season 3, not that it would change my opinion of anything but you never know what what new connections you might make! So uh, those are my ideas.... I’m not especially attached to them so feel free to change stuff, but it’s a place to start.
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Aug 17, 2019 03:58
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kaworu posted:Well, I don’t know that I’m the most reliable person to start the rewatch... But if I were running it, I would make the weekly watch time at more or less the same time slot Season 3 had - Sunday night at 9:00? Yeah, most of this sounds great to me. I'm not as interested in streaming/simulcast, mostly just looking forward to discussing individual episodes for a week at a time. I definitely agree with no spoiler tags, as a lot of the most interesting discussion will involve looking at the original seasons through a post S3 perspective. Plus it would make the thread really weird with what is/isn't allowed. When do we want to start? A week from tomorrow? Do we want to do international pilot along with the first episode?
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Aug 17, 2019 09:40
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SnakesRevenge posted:Do we want to do international pilot along with the first episode? If we're gonna watch the international pilot, I think it would be best to watch that even before the regular pilot. Otherwise it's just gonna get confusing. A week from now sounds good to me. I don't really know when American holidays are happening, though. So, if a break is coming up, please post that in the thread.
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Aug 17, 2019 10:45
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I wouldn’t start with the international pilot. Maybe after S1 or S2 if we are going to watch it at all. I think it will be kind of redundant if we watch it right before or after the S1 pilot, but might me more interesting once we’ve seen the main plot take shape in the original series. I can’t do a live watch party at a consistent time but don’t let that stop y’all. BetterLekNextTime fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Aug 17, 2019 |
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Aug 17, 2019 16:50
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BetterLekNextTime posted:I wouldn’t start with the international pilot. Maybe after S1 or S2 if we are going to watch it at all. I think it will be kind of redundant if we watch it right before or after the S1 pilot, but might me more interesting once we’ve seen the main plot take shape in the original series. Yeah, that actually sounds like a good idea. Folks, am I just losing my mind now? I was watching the original Gone in 60 Seconds, and this happens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PWSLu5vLiw&t=210s That's basically Lucy, right? I'm not hallucinating this obvious connection, right? The place is even called Moran Cadillac. 
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Aug 17, 2019 17:59
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Maybe I'm the only one, but I think I'd prefer a time slot that doesn't conflict with new eps of other shows. Maybe Monday nights or just a different time on Sundays or something.
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Aug 17, 2019 18:59
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