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Lpzie posted:I feel like this style of dota is so different that we might get some of the old vanguard players waking up this morning and realizing they should retire. if your dota isn't powered by friendship and positivity its time to gtfo
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Aug 26, 2019 00:01
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Jesus, don't say that. Next years TI would be fought over 1.7 million dollars.
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Aug 26, 2019 00:11
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Mind Combat 2: Enter the Brain Dojo : Return of Sun Tzu Machiavelli
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Aug 26, 2019 00:12
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Taffer posted:if your dota isn't powered by friendship and positivity its time to gtfo While they're all individually great, the team does give a vibe of "greater than the sum of it's parts".
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Aug 26, 2019 00:13
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Lpzie posted:I feel like this style of dota is so different that we might get some of the old vanguard players waking up this morning and realizing they should retire. only weeb players like rtz. most old players would relish in this stuff where maxing gpm isn't an auto-win strategy anymore
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Aug 26, 2019 00:28
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Craptacular! posted:OG used low cooldowns that do moderate amounts of damage and denied Liquid the high cooldown moves associated with big plays like ravage and black hole. This just... isn't even close to accurate. OG played a lot of 'big ult' the whole tourney. Magnus was first banned even over wisp/enchantress against them because Ceb is so scary on it, they played high cooldown teamfight lineups vs. LGD in game 1 and vs. EG in game 2, and vs. liquid in both games 1 and 3. The real thing that stood out to me about OG is that they were able to draft lineups that gave them win conditions no matter how well or how poorly the game went, and instead of taking 20-30 minutes to safely convert an advantage into a 20k net worth lead and then a win (like LGD) they were able to do it in ~5 minutes without giving games away. Let's take the draft vs liquid in game 3. You can see that the plan wasn't 'topson wins the game in 23 minutes by going off on pugna' Instead, they wanted to play their game 1 strategy again without letting liquid have meepo. They have enchantress to slow down the enemy carry's early game farm, pugna to dominate mid vs. ta, and a carry with a scary teamfight ultimate to win a possible lategame for ana, plus a strong laning support to make sure ana gets farm and a tiny for jerax that can take farm and become a 4th core with aghs if the game goes really late. Game 1's draft plan fell short because chen kept giving armor buffs and regen to meepo so he could freefarm the lane, but OG still held out for a long time due to the high cooldown spectre ultimate and farmed pugna/ench. Game 3 ench kicked jugg out of lane at 6, topson dominated TA even harder and OG was able to roam mid much more aggressively because liquid had ogre instead of chen. Even if topson didn't make pugna look like the best hero in dota, OG would take a solid lead out of the laning stage they could use to delay until ana's void can teamfight. With no meepo in the game as long as they slow TA down enough they have tiny/void/ench to win late, but obviously they were given the opportunity to win early and took it. Note, probably the sickest draft I have ever seen in pro Dota2 was OG vs. LGD game 3. This OG Alchemist draft is ALSO a hidden OG armor reduction strategy that they will (probably) only reveal if alchemist fails to win the game by himself. LGD thinks they just need to slow the alchemist down and hold out until slark and tiny outscale alchemist/tidehunter, but then within 1 minute tidehunter buys deso and alch buys him an aghs scepter and the tide suddenly starts killing anyone on LGD in 2 hits. As soon as OG hit this 35 minute timing on tide they end the game 6 minutes later.
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Aug 26, 2019 00:54
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Craptacular! posted:I think people don’t like you think wrong like almost 100% of what you say in this post is backwards with reality
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Aug 26, 2019 01:19
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Ao did you guys just miss all the “hmmm sure smells like TI4 in here” takes I saw on Reddit, Twitter etc immediately after game 3? The reaction in here was that Liquid wasn’t able to get the big teamfight ults they drafted, because OG wouldn’t give them the room to had a teamfight advantage and a botched one wouldn’t be ready again for a couple minutes. What I was getting at is that TI is usually defined by some sort of big play: the play 2012, the million dollar dreamcoil, the whatever million dollar echo slam, etc. Someone after TI4 derisively referred to the main event as “the [$] tier one tower push” because there wasn’t a single big highlight teamfight. Part of the problem was the meta of giving big rewards for T1s and the lack of a bounce back for a bad start, but ultimately it was just a team outplaying another team hard by doing everything well. This TI’s meta wasn’t really at all like TI4, the only comparison was one team outplaying another by doing everything well. You could kind of say game 4 had a fifteen million dollar Diffusal Blade, but that was kind of overshadowed by how broken Wisp is. All I wanted to say was that OG probably worked harder than people comparing to TI4 are giving them credit for, they compare it to TI4 mostly because the see any attempt at a big memorable play is constantly rebuffed by just charging in and murdering the Tidehunter and then running away, which is is effective but unsatisfying. Not to take anything away from OG. They have all the strategies and make use of them, they didn’t just always play this one game this way and wait for the meta to shift their way. They’ve shown they can do anything.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:37
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Craptacular! posted:Ao did you guys just miss all the “hmmm sure smells like TI4 in here” takes I saw on Reddit, Twitter etc immediately after game 3? The reaction in here was that Liquid wasn’t able to get the big teamfight ults they drafted, because OG wouldn’t give them the room to had a teamfight advantage and a botched one wouldn’t be ready again for a couple minutes. having an incredibly memorable moment =/= a TI being defined by it. Also, the play A: wasn't in the finals and B: wasn't done by the team that won TI what's your defining moment for TI6 and 7? Or are those as bad as TI4 as well? Maybe you should stick to reddit and twitter.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:44
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why did liquid ban magnus instead of wisp that last game
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Aug 26, 2019 01:47
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https://twitter.com/hadescasts/status/1165285311921811457
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Aug 26, 2019 01:47
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little munchkin posted:why did liquid ban magnus instead of wisp that last game The real question is why did they ban elder titan, not magnus
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Aug 26, 2019 01:48
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I get what craptacular is saying. I enjoyed TI8 and TI9 grand finals a lot but for different reasons. TI8 I was sitting on the edge of my seat the whole time, TI9 I was sitting with my mouth agape in disbeleif at what I was watching, it was unbelievable. Both extremely impressive performances, but I'd say TI8 was the more emotional journey since it went right down to the wire and required a miracle comeback.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:49
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TI4 finals each game was like 12-14 minutes long. I know and remember because I was there.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:50
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I was even at TI4 for the grand final, so I remember it well when I say: this was nothing like TI4
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Aug 26, 2019 01:50
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HERE WE GO
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Aug 26, 2019 01:50
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The REAL Goobusters posted:TI4 finals each game was like 12-14 minutes long. I know and remember because I was there. I actually looked this up earlier out of curiosity and while you're technically wrong I'm gonna assume you aren't actually wrong because it was probably obvious how over it was by that point in every game except the first god it's unreal how bad that GF was
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Aug 26, 2019 01:51
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The REAL Goobusters posted:TI4 finals each game was like 12-14 minutes long. I know and remember because I was there. Yeah this, there were no teamfights because Vici drafted to kill buildings before Newbee could stop them, and they either made it happen or just lost
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Aug 26, 2019 01:52
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If that team is real it's actually going to be so bad. Iceiceice is not a good carry player in the year 2019.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:53
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OG was picking 5 hero team synergy strategies that no other team was doing. Other teams were focusing on an OP combo, filling in with comfort picks. It was a Wings-esque stomp TI. This is just the new DotA. Nothing really matters other than 5 manning 12 minutes in. All that's changed is the timing of 5-balling to be a few minutes earlier than the past. Ever since Reborn, they nerfed ratting and 5-balling is the only way to play. It's what Icefrog wanted. He hated the idea that mega-creeping was an inevitable win. How many Meepo reverse thrones did we see? That's the DotA he wanted. And for some reason, teams didn't have their cores valuing their buybacks as the most important thing.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:54
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JollyPubJerk posted:This is just the new DotA. Nothing really matters other than 5 manning 12 minutes in. All that's changed is the timing of 5-balling to be a few minutes earlier than the past. This is also not true. Did you miss game 1 or something?
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Aug 26, 2019 01:56
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JollyPubJerk posted:OG was picking 5 hero team synergy strategies that no other team was doing. Other teams were focusing on an OP combo, filling in with comfort picks. Counterpoint: You have no idea what you're talking about lmao.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:57
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Vando posted:This is also not true. Did you miss game 1 or something? I did, brb
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Aug 26, 2019 01:58
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It was just the last two games. I just remember like not even tier 2s going down or something. But they were all early GG calls. As opposed to OG sieging base and fountain diving
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Aug 26, 2019 02:02
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Vando posted:This is also not true. Did you miss game 1 or something? wait what, what happened that game is literally what I described...
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Aug 26, 2019 02:03
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So is Sneyking moving to carry on Team Go or Daryl?
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Aug 26, 2019 02:03
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The only thing people should legit have complaint about with OG's style of play as a spectator is the carry wisp, which gets a pass because it's such an amusing concept but in reality it's just a broken hero that's an auto win, but if teams aren't going to ban it you can't really blame them for taking the free win.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:03
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JollyPubJerk posted:wait what, what happened that game is literally what I described... Game 1 Liquid 5 manned 15 minutes in and got handled by OG waiting out their late game timings except they hosed up and over extended when the game was won and got throned. Games 2 and 3 Liquid picked greedy lineups so OG countered by running at them and Liquid couldn't handle it. e: just because the early game run at people lineup won all 4 games in the final doesn't mean it's the only strat, come the gently caress on now Vando fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 02:07
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OG forced other teams to play their own game, which is constant skirmishes. That doesn't mean the whole meta is just that. poo poo, look at when rat DotA was at its prime. It still wasn't the only meta people were playing. This was an amazing finals, but I will agree that it was not as exciting as others. It was like watching pros play against pubs. I doubt they'd have done much better than Liquid, but I kind of wish LGD made it to the finals instead. The crowd would've been so hype.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:08
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OG didn't win because five man dota is overpowered, they won because they absolutely dumped on Liquid in lanes and then never let up after that. Liquid just got routinely outdrafted and outplayed in laning matchups and OG took advantage of that fact. It wasn't the case that OG had the gameplan of 5 manning 10 minutes in, it just happened that they were so far ahead 10 minutes in that they could do so.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:08
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Vando posted:Game 1 Liquid 5 manned 15 minutes in and got handled by OG waiting out their late game timings except they hosed up and over extended when the game was won and got throned. wrong
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Aug 26, 2019 02:10
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Sampatrick posted:OG didn't win because five man dota is overpowered, they won because they absolutely dumped on Liquid in lanes and then never let up after that. Liquid just got routinely outdrafted and outplayed in laning matchups and OG took advantage of that fact. It wasn't the case that OG had the gameplan of 5 manning 10 minutes in, it just happened that they were so far ahead 10 minutes in that they could do so. dude do you play DotA? 5 man or lose I have a number below my name and Im retired
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Aug 26, 2019 02:10
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GOOD TIMES ON METH posted:So is Sneyking moving to carry on Team Go or Daryl? There are so many possible permutations. I would sort of expect Jabz as pos 1 and Iceiceice as pos 2 but it could be the other way around. Sneyking will probably stay offlane if the team is real.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:11
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JollyPubJerk posted:dude do you play DotA? 5 man or lose 
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Aug 26, 2019 02:12
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JollyPubJerk posted:wrong if this is some weird "ah yes, I am cleverly trolling the dota thread, look at me everyone" thing pls note that intentionally being a massive dumbass isn't a clever troll
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Aug 26, 2019 02:12
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Iceiceice has been a cursed player at TI since ti1Vando posted:The only thing people should legit have complaint about with OG's style of play as a spectator is the carry wisp, which gets a pass because it's such an amusing concept but in reality it's just a broken hero that's an auto win, but if teams aren't going to ban it you can't really blame them for taking the free win. To completely fair to Liquid, they were the only team able to defeat a carry io against Secret. But yeah it’s the best hero in the entire tournament followed by Enchantress
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Aug 26, 2019 02:13
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JollyPubJerk posted:dude do you play DotA? 5 man or lose Aren't you the chud that's banned from posting in dota threads?
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Aug 26, 2019 02:14
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The REAL Goobusters posted:To completely fair to Liquid, they were the only team able to defeat a carry io against Secret. That was probably their undoing, beating that suboptimal effort gave them hope it was beatable full stop.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:15
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Vando posted:That was probably their undoing, beating that suboptimal effort gave them hope it was beatable full stop. Yeah, that secret carry io they beat looked really bad compared to the Ana io.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:16
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The way to beat OG carry io is to be hitting the throne before 20 minutes and even then you'll be cutting it fine
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Aug 26, 2019 02:20
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