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Tebow and Russell both barely played their rookie seasons.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:29
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mcmagic posted:Why? Cause it's so easy to get tackles who can play? Because I think his career prospects are probably Branden Albert, and I'm suspicious that you can get an over-his-head acting GM who is in danger of being fired to pay you like he's Joe Thomas.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:32
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Catfish Noodlin posted:Because I think his career prospects are probably Branden Albert, and I'm suspicious that you can't get an over-his-head acting GM who is in danger of being fired to pay you like he's Joe Thomas. If you have a good to very good tackle you have to pay them...
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Aug 29, 2019 17:33
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I’d do it for Clowney and a 2nd. That’s bare minimum
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Aug 29, 2019 17:33
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Catfish Noodlin posted:Because I think his career prospects are probably Branden Albert, and I'm suspicious that you can get an over-his-head acting GM who is in danger of being fired to pay you like he's Joe Thomas. What's wrong with being branden albert??? He was good
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Aug 29, 2019 17:35
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Amy Pole Her posted:It appears the discussion is around Tunsil for Clowney + a pick Agreed
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Aug 29, 2019 17:40
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Multiple bills fans have different takes wow
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Aug 29, 2019 17:42
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mcmagic posted:If you have a good to very good tackle you have to pay them... That's the thing- I don't think Laremy Tunsil has been "very good" yet. He's shown upside as a pass protector, but it's just that at this point, and you're talking about what is now a 4th year player. He shouldn't be regarded as untouchable.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:46
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Amy Pole Her posted:It appears the discussion is around Tunsil for Clowney + a pick I liked the Brian Baldinger video as much as anyone last year, but I don't think Tunsil was a top 5 LT. He's a mediocre run blocker, and while he had some good games as a pass protector, he also got his rear end beat against Calais Campbell and ended up grading like 17th in pass protection w/ PFF.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:48
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Metapod posted:What's wrong with being branden albert??? He was good He was good, but paying him $20m a year on a 5 year deal or whatever would be a mistake.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:51
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I'm kind of at the point where I think an above-average tackle is more valuable than even an All-Pro edge rusher. e: I'll walk it back a bit and say Pro Bowl, fringe All-Pro edge rusher.
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Aug 29, 2019 17:56
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Catfish Noodlin posted:He was good, but paying him $20m a year on a 5 year deal or whatever would be a mistake. He wont get 20m a year op
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Aug 29, 2019 17:57
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If you trade Tunsil you're basically also trading a future 1 that you will need to use to replace him.
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Aug 29, 2019 18:09
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Metapod posted:He wont get 20m a year op Trenton Brown got $16.5 a year, what do you think a better player is going to get in two years, especially w/ a potential cap bump coming from a new CBA on the horizon. Hamhandler fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 18:12
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Catfish Noodlin posted:Trenton Brown got $16.5 a year, what do you think a better player is going to get in two years, especially w/ a potential cap bump coming from a new CBA on the horizon. It's funny money. Who cares? Getting control of a good tackle is MUCH harder than managing their cap hit.
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Aug 29, 2019 18:17
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evilweasel posted:there's enough data to not declare darnold a guaranteed failure, and that's as much as you really can say. It's less about the organization and more about the guy himself. I've watched quite a lot of him and it's my *opinion* that he will be good enough to lead a team as the starting quarterback for a while. Looking around at some of the other quarterbacks starting in the NFL makes me even more confident in that fact, he's good enough for this league. You can believe otherwise, that's the fun thing about opinions. But I'll stake my sterling reputation on these forums that Darnold will still be in a starting quarterback in three years, which seems a fair barometer. I think he'll have some reasonable success in that time as well. Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Uh no. Most QBs fail, if anything that is what I would assume until proven otherwise. I give Darnold a better shot than most at turning himself into a franchise quarterback, but until it actually happens I am highly skeptical. Actually, a majority of QBs drafted in the first sixteen picks succeed enough to be long-term starters in the NFL. So your presumptions here seem a bit off. It's easy to remember the massive failures like Jamarcus and easy to forget that all the successful quarterbacks that we have came from somewhere, and it was often the beginning of the draft like Darnold. Professor Funk posted:In any case, Play is right: we're gonna find out the answer to all this really soon. SO loving soon. Yeah I think we're just getting antsy for the season to start. Just a bunch of anxious bitching hens really, and probably half or more of our preconceptions will be destroyed within the first four weeks
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Aug 29, 2019 18:19
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Catfish Noodlin posted:Trenton Brown got $16.5 a year, what do you think a better player is going to get in two years, especially w/ a potential cap bump coming from a new CBA on the horizon. I mean I could see him signing a contract that looks like he gets 20m a year but only being 15m actually
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Aug 29, 2019 18:35
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Play posted:It's less about the organization and more about the guy himself. I've watched quite a lot of him and it's my *opinion* that he will be good enough to lead a team as the starting quarterback for a while. Looking around at some of the other quarterbacks starting in the NFL makes me even more confident in that fact, he's good enough for this league. I never said most top sixteen QBs fail, that is your criteria. And being a 'long term starter' is not an indicator of success. Tannehill, Sanchez, and Bortles are just a few such guys who started many years but weren't the answer. There are more in the league right now who will probably wash out in a year or two - Dalton, Mariota, Carr. There are really only maybe ten QBs in the league who are actually demonstrably GOOD and not just guys who can hold on to a starting job and will forever hover around that nebulous Dalton Line. My belief is that few QBs are starting material and that even less will actually be good and I feel very confident the evidence bears this out.
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Aug 29, 2019 18:38
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watch out, Omar Armando coming hard after that "worst dolphins beat report" trophy https://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero/status/1167116399619313664
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Aug 29, 2019 18:46
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mcmagic posted:If you trade Tunsil you're basically also trading a future 1 that you will need to use to replace him. Do you need to replace him 1:1? I mean what if say, your quarterback next year is left-handed?
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Aug 29, 2019 18:49
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Tackle is probably the 2nd most important position on your team due to positional scarcity and the importance in protecting the most important guy. If you have a good tackle and no replacement plan, pay them loving anything and don't get rid of them, god drat.
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Aug 29, 2019 18:51
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Kalli posted:Tackle is probably the 2nd most important position on your team due to positional scarcity and the importance in protecting the most important guy. I don't get why this is hard for the Dolphins. The loving Broncos just gave, what, $15m per to Juwan loving James, thats how hard it is to find good tackles. I like James, but he's not a top 10 RT and he's got a much worse injury history
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Aug 29, 2019 19:05
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https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/sports/football/22vecsey.html When pundits buy in on 2nd year highly drafted QBs, it matters a lot.
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Aug 29, 2019 19:24
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Ytarbrush posted:I don't get why this is hard for the Dolphins. The loving Broncos just gave, what, $15m per to Juwan loving James, thats how hard it is to find good tackles. This is where I’m at, and I’m still saying Tunsil is top 5. He’s shut down amazing dudes, definitely screwed stuff up.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:06
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Amy Pole Her posted:Y Ehhh, he got wrecked against Calais Campbell and was penalized ten times during the season. PFF had him at the 17th best pass protecting grade among tackles last year. He had a nice game against Jadeveon Clowney, and had two excellent quarters against Khalil Mack before he got hurt. That's precious little to anoint him priceless over. tarbrush posted:I don't get why this is hard for the Dolphins. The loving Broncos just gave, what, $15m per to Juwan loving James, thats how hard it is to find good tackles. So why was this a good outcome?
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Aug 29, 2019 20:45
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It's an illustration of that if you don't pay 20m/yr for a very good left tackle, you'll end up paying $15m for a merely OK one.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:55
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Yeah, tackle is one of those positions that are not fungible. There is a pretty steep drop off between a decent one and the rest, and a bad one can torpedo your offense.
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Aug 29, 2019 20:58
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Also I don't know how often they work out in free agency, but Nate Solder has been complete dogshit since signing his giant contract
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Aug 29, 2019 21:01
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I dunno what to make of Solder's situation. On one hand the Patriots know tackle is important and have always spent draft capital to feed the pipeline of players for their oline via the draft or trades. On the other hand they also always seem to make under performing guys look good. I'm not sure how much of it is excellence in o-line coaching, having a great quarterback, or the players they use actually being good. Was Solder just a mediocre guy who was boosted by the advantages the Patriots' system offers? Or did he actually physically decline? Or is his a victim of bad coaching and quarterbacking? Or all of the above?
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Aug 29, 2019 21:12
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lmao. The Dolphins locker room sure likes revolting. https://twitter.com/AdamHBeasley/status/1167145348181233666
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Aug 29, 2019 21:14
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Diva Cupcake posted:lmao. The Dolphins locker room sure likes revolting. turns out the source is just my posts on TFF
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Aug 29, 2019 21:15
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Armando and Omar cowering under a trainer's table as the players storm the facility and set fire to Chris Grier's office
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Aug 29, 2019 21:17
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The dolphins are plenty revolting already
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Aug 29, 2019 21:20
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I don't blame them and I hope they succeed in keeping him
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Aug 29, 2019 21:23
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Why do I support such an aggressively stupid team? I'm loving British, I could've picked any stupid team and it wouldn't have mattered. loving Dolphins.
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Aug 29, 2019 22:01
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:I never said most top sixteen QBs fail, that is your criteria. Yeah what you said was true, but at the same time that's the criteria that Darnold fits into, regardless. So really the chances are on his side to be an enduring qb in the league. Comine that and just watching him play and I feel pretty comfortable saying he's good enough. It'd probably be ever more stark if we did top 3 or 5. Maybe? I'd be interested to find out. Might also be more busts up there but I'm way too lazy to actually do the math. I agree with most of you guys, some people are trying to convince themselves that Tunsil isn't that good and might be worth trading. He's super young, he's a tackle with awesome size and good athleticism, still on his rookie deal, first round pedigree, gave up only two sacks last season. That's a very valuable commodity there regardless of whether he's top 10 or whatever. It would be valuable even if he was totally mediocre I'd expect an enormous draft haul to even consider it. Clowney wouldn't really factor in to the decision imo because that doesn't fit what they're trying to do which is get younger and cheaper and start loading up great players.
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Aug 29, 2019 22:41
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Oh boy
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Aug 29, 2019 22:46
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Clowney is 16mm this year, he’d be like 19.2 in 2021. 35.2 Tunsil is 3.9mm this year and 10.6 next. 14.5m We’re trading Tunsil and 2 years of dirt cheap very good quality tackle for 2 years of expensive rear end Clowney, who is this holding us hostage for a huge deal? No. The rumor is both teams view Tunsil and Clowney as equal value but the contractual issues have “shifted the value heavily” into Miami’s favor, and Texans are viewing this situation as upgrading a huge need and buying cap room. There’s so much “insider poo poo” being posted by a dude who is usually on so I’m really scared we’re doing this. It’s such a bad move. I don’t care if we get a 1st back with him
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Aug 29, 2019 22:54
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Apparently, the fins are less interested in Clowney and more in what else the Texans are offering. Sounds like Clowney is being dumped for salary/contract reasons, and is not really the point of the potential deal.
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Aug 29, 2019 23:47
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Didn’t the Texans trade a pretty decent tackle recently and just draft a tackle in the first round?
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Aug 30, 2019 00:03
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