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From that standup summary linked in the thread it seems like Louis himself thinks he’s persecuted and kink shamed for getting off on jerking off in front of non consenting women and that even most homosexuals probably get off on not being fully accepted in society and would stop being gay as soon as the shock factor was gone. It made me sad that comedians apparently all decided to spare him, because you could basically build an entire set around mocking his attitude.
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Sep 23, 2019 15:42
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Coffee And Pie posted:Anyone sympathetic towards gay people should have cancelled Kevin Hart already. Are you kidding me he was on Ellen for crying out loud and went on the most public apology tour of the era. Kevin Hart has done more good for the world than any other comedian I can think of. Philadelphia public schools still wouldn’t have computers if it weren’t for Kevin Hart. Like if there is a better example of someone who honestly tried to make amends please post them.
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Sep 23, 2019 15:43
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counterpoint, gently caress him and gently caress Ellen for trying to rehab him
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Sep 23, 2019 16:56
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So Ellen is cancelled now too?
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Sep 23, 2019 17:13
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Vintersorg posted:So Ellen is cancelled now too? smdh at all the neo-Calvinists online trying to suss out the lists of the woke and the cancelled. Only through God's grace is anyone redeemed from cancellation.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:50
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i've always kind of disliked Ellen for achieving acceptance through positioning herself as the most non-threatening One Of The Good Gays possible (and by doing so, kinda making life harder for people with more confrontational presentation), but until the Kevin Hart thing happened it simmered around "mild annoyance" and was not something I devoted much mental energy to with the Hart thing, though, she took someone who said something absolutely loving monstrous that she should have been personally horrified by (being LGBT herself), and brought him on her show so she could call the people who levied consequences on him and try to browbeat them into going back on it I don't overly care if she's "cancelled" or whatever, just, gently caress her e: if he ever actually apologized instead of just trying to deflect away from it and make himself the victim, I stand corrected, but I'm pretty sure that's all he ever did, and Ellen either bought it hard or actively helped him manipulate public opinion back to his favor WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Sep 23, 2019 |
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Sep 23, 2019 17:56
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Bust Rodd posted:Are you kidding me he was on Ellen for crying out loud and went on the most public apology tour of the era. Kevin Hart has done more good for the world than any other comedian I can think of. Philadelphia public schools still wouldn’t have computers if it weren’t for Kevin Hart. Like if there is a better example of someone who honestly tried to make amends please post them. Philanthropy is bullshit, and just two weeks ago he was telling Lil Nas X gay people don’t have real problems. Vintersorg posted:So Ellen is cancelled now too? 
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Sep 23, 2019 18:32
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Pirate Jet posted:Philanthropy is bullshit Why? I understand eat the rich and all but even the only good thing they can do is bad? Are they all supposed to guillotine themselves then?
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Sep 23, 2019 18:41
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Ellen is a quisling. Also Kevin Hart, widow's mite etc.
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Sep 23, 2019 18:43
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AceOfFlames posted:Why? I understand eat the rich and all but even the only good thing they can do is bad? Are they all supposed to guillotine themselves then? Philanthropy is often used as an excuse for not promoting real social change. "Why raise my taxes I donated to build a homeless shelter!"
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Sep 23, 2019 18:58
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porfiria posted:Ellen is a quisling. Also Kevin Hart, widow's mite etc. Quisling is such a beautiful word. I’ve replaced ‘Judas’ with Quisling when discussing traitors.
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Sep 23, 2019 19:03
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Vintersorg posted:So Ellen is cancelled now too? She should be for trying to rehab GWB, for sure e: fb
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Sep 23, 2019 19:12
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Ellen should have come out by carving "Yep, I'm gay" into the chest of a headless corpse and stringing it up in the doorway of a barn, something like what would have been done by a more progressive gay icon, Hannibal Lecter.
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Sep 23, 2019 19:17
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Human Tornada posted:So what's the rule, if someone is known to have sexually harassed or assaulted people they're banned from ever working around other people again? Someone like Louis CK could just gently caress off with his millions and disappear from society but that's not really a realistic rule to have in place. precisely, once Louis CK serves a lengthy prison sentence we can let him perform again
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Sep 23, 2019 19:40
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:smdh at all the neo-Calvinists online trying to suss out the lists of the woke and the cancelled. Only through God's grace is anyone redeemed from cancellation. Is predestination like affirmations or The Secret? Cuz Jared Leto sure must believe he’s not a rapist since it’s working for him
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Sep 23, 2019 20:37
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Uh if you don’t think Ellen is a huge champion for gay equality in the public eye then you’re just being like hilariously obtuse and close-minded. You can’t really find a gay celebrity working in Hollywood today who doesn’t attribute at least some of their success to Ellen paving the way for them. Like Jane Lynch said “Ellen took one for the team and instead of being out and proud I could just exist and get by because she did all the work.” Margaret Cho, Jane Lynch, Wanda Sykes, Tig Notoro, Jack McBrayer and on and on. Also Ellen and lots of other queer people recognize what Kevin Hart said as being a joke. It’s preposterous to presume that all gay people should take all these jokes as hatespeech, some of us can laugh along with everyone else because we know that’s what comedy is for. Finally, as someone who worked in the Philadelphia public school system, on behalf of the thousands of kids whose lives have been improved by access to resources and technology the city could have never provided to its most at risk population, go gently caress yourself off your high horse into a ditch.
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Sep 23, 2019 20:42
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Bust Rodd posted:Uh if you don’t think Ellen is a huge champion for gay equality in the public eye then you’re just being like hilariously obtuse and close-minded. You can’t really find a gay celebrity working in Hollywood today who doesn’t attribute at least some of their success to Ellen paving the way for them. Like Jane Lynch said “Ellen took one for the team and instead of being out and proud I could just exist and get by because she did all the work.” Margaret Cho, Jane Lynch, Wanda Sykes, Tig Notoro, Jack McBrayer and on and on.
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Sep 23, 2019 20:45
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this thread is learning there is no problematic celebrity that bust rodd can not ultimately make about himself
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Sep 23, 2019 20:46
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Bust Rodd posted:Uh if you don’t think Ellen is a huge champion for gay equality in the public eye then you’re just being like hilariously obtuse and close-minded. You can’t really find a gay celebrity working in Hollywood today who doesn’t attribute at least some of their success to Ellen paving the way for them. Like Jane Lynch said “Ellen took one for the team and instead of being out and proud I could just exist and get by because she did all the work.” Margaret Cho, Jane Lynch, Wanda Sykes, Tig Notoro, Jack McBrayer and on and on. The reason the city couldn’t provide them is Ellen and Kevin Hart.
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Sep 23, 2019 20:49
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Ah yes, noted problematic celebrity Ellen Degeneres
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Sep 23, 2019 20:49
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Bust Rodd posted:Ah yes, noted problematic celebrity Ellen Degeneres
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Sep 23, 2019 20:50
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Timeless Appeal posted:Dude, you literally did not read any of the other posts where I'm basically saying there needs to be an authority that provides barrier of reentry for harassers and abusers. I'm not saying that Louis can't shout jokes on a street corner. But unless venues have a reasonable belief that he will not abuse his power again, they should not be able to invite him to their venues. Would that authority have the power to prevent any employer from hiring someone who is an abuser? As in, it would be illegal for that person to have any sort of employment in the entire country? The number of ways that could go horribly wrong are countless. And what would the standard be? Criminal conviction? I'm not a free market guy in general, but this is one of those instances where it's the best option. The guys who own these comedy clubs aren't booking Louis CK or Kevin Hart if nobody shows up, so it's on us to simply not show up. Comedy is an industry that is very exposed to the free market, comedians rise and fall totally in the whims of the public and whether or not they're liked or disliked, and in the end that's the best way to solve these issues because giving the government authority to declare a person unemployable strikes me as a very bad idea.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:00
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Bust Rodd posted:Are you kidding me he was on Ellen for crying out loud and went on the most public apology tour of the era. Kevin Hart has done more good for the world than any other comedian I can think of. Philadelphia public schools still wouldn’t have computers if it weren’t for Kevin Hart. Like if there is a better example of someone who honestly tried to make amends please post them. Kevin Hart literally cheated on his pregnant wife, and a centerpoint of his most recent stand-up tour was an extended bit about how much more difficult it is to be a father than a mother, because no kid ever asks to spend time with their mother. gently caress him.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:02
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Timby posted:Kevin Hart literally cheated on his pregnant wife, and a centerpoint of his most recent stand-up tour was an extended bit about how much more difficult it is to be a father than a mother, because no kid ever asks to spend time with their mother. I haven’t seen his delivery to know which way he was taking it but on paper that could be an amazing self-deprecating joke.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:04
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Comedians are almost uniformly professional bad people. They all look up to Carlin and Lenny Bruce but then they use their bully pulpit to browbeat people beneath them on the social ladder and act like they're a revolutionary for doing so. Worse than that, when people decide that poo poo ain't funny, they get super fuckin' sanctimonious and for a group that uniformly mocks safe spaces and thinks the marginalized are entitled, they super want comedy venues and theaters to be their safe space and they feel entitled to people's laughter. Stand up needs new stars so fuckin' bad. Bo Burnham went from a lovely edgelord teen to a much more mature performer, but he's just one dude.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:09
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Steve Yun posted:I haven’t seen his delivery to know which way he was taking it but on paper that could be an amazing self-deprecating joke. Please sir you can’t talk about jokes in this thread.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:13
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What did Kevin Hart do?
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Sep 23, 2019 21:16
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:What did Kevin Hart do? A bunch of lovely movies.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:19
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LividLiquid posted:Comedians are almost uniformly professional bad people. This is why Jim Gaffigan is the greatest comic. He browbeats himself.
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Sep 23, 2019 21:20
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:What did Kevin Hart do? 
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Sep 23, 2019 21:23
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If these are "jokes", what's so funny about punching down? 
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Sep 23, 2019 21:27
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quote:I'm not a free market guy in general, but this is one of those instances where it's the best option. The guys who own these comedy clubs aren't booking Louis CK or Kevin Hart if nobody shows up, so it's on us to simply not show up. Comedy is an industry that is very exposed to the free market, comedians rise and fall totally in the whims of the public and whether or not they're liked or disliked, and in the end that's the best way to solve these issues because giving the government authority to declare a person unemployable strikes me as a very bad idea. The issue is that you shouldn't be allowed to knowingly create a hostile work environment.
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Sep 23, 2019 22:02
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Timeless Appeal posted:Look, if you removed the cigarette ban from bars in NYC, a lot of people would still just go to bars. That doesn't mean it's moral to knowingly force a waitress to inhale secondhand smoke. Smoking and employment are apples and oranges issues. Having some sort of authority that can deem it illegal to hire a person is an extremely dangerous power to hand over to the government. Telling someone they have to go outside to smoke isn't the same thing at all.
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Sep 23, 2019 22:06
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Bust Rodd posted:Ah yes, noted problematic celebrity Ellen Degeneres "It's very generous of the Duke to give us peasants grain from his private store during this Famine!" "Yes, without him, we'd have no grain, and would therefore starve."
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Sep 23, 2019 22:23
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Basebf555 posted:Smoking and employment are apples and oranges issues. Having some sort of authority that can deem it illegal to hire a person is an extremely dangerous power to hand over to the government. Telling someone they have to go outside to smoke isn't the same thing at all. The problem is that I feel like people are working backwards from Louis CK instead of how the world already works: Here are things that are true: 1) You can't be a teacher if you molested a kid and that is just. I know that's already been drawn as an exception, but let's be clear that there are situations where someone bars themselves from work because of the unique repeating nature of sex crimes. 2) Private Sector businesses can already be sued for negligence for not taking abuse and harassment seriously. Functionally, the law does see a responsibility to avoid a hostile work environment and punishes those who do not take action. 3) Private Sector businesses already create systems to ensure they're educating their staff so they at least can claim they tried. It's lovely that someone scooped Lasseter up, but I'd bet that the motherfucker had to go through an extensive sexual harassment and work discrimination training. Once again, this stuff mostly happens so companies can avoid litigation, but I'd argue that they should be more normalized and standardized. But even it's a selfish action, it's at least something. 4) Many places are already making it illegal to take into account criminal background for employment and while that has far to go, it is just, and I think mitigates the main misuse of stricter guidelines for employer liability. If we have restorative systems built in for sex offenders and employers are not allowed to ask about past history then there is theoretically no problem. I am arguing in general that there just need to be tighter systems to ensure hostile work environments are avoided. I'm arguing that if you know your employee is a serial harasser or you hire someone with the knowledge of past sexual misconduct and do literally nothing to protect your other employees, you should be held liable. Louis CK is an interesting case because 1) His crimes are such public knowledge. In short, he makes his employers liable because of his fame and 2) He's essentially a freelance contractor when he works at a club, so any restorative systems that a company could normalize are going to be hard for a club to implement. So, I get that it would be hard to come up with a system that reasonably proves that Louis CK has received treatment, that system just may not exist, and he may have now become a better person and just has no system to prove that he is not a threat in the workplace. So my answer would be, gently caress him. If you, in this one case, have to choose between letting female comedians work at your club without the fear of sexual assault or hiring Louis CK, a known sexual predator, with no proof or indication that he has changed his ways then there is an obvious answer. And yes, if you choose the wrong answer, you should face consequences outside of just litigation.
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Sep 23, 2019 22:40
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Ellen Details Abuse By Her Stepfather https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFBBNElImEc Remember Mark Foley? Disgraced in sexting scandal, but now reinvented and honored by Republicans https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-mark-foley-post-scandal-trump-republican-20190823-lsaesyt5yrfiba4afvyjh2lcz4-story.html Apple made Siri deflect questions on feminism, leaked papers reveal https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/06/apple-rewrote-siri-to-deflect-questions-about-feminism Woman who posted R. Kelly’s bail wants her money back https://news.yahoo.com/woman-posted-r-kelly-bail-123511377.html
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Sep 23, 2019 22:41
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Timeless Appeal posted:CK didn't get mandated counseling. He didn't go through an HR training. He paid no debt to society. He went off to brood like an 18th century libertine. Snowman_McK posted:people do get banned from jobs, though. There are lifetimes bans from sports, for instance. And it doesn't necessarily take much. A guy managed to get banned from playing basketball in my state just for yelling at a ref. I think back to Vincent Margera AKA Don Vito AKA Bam Margera's Uncle. He got in trouble for groping a bunch of young fans. He said it was part of his Don Vito persona so the judge barred him from performing for ten whole years (a solid decade). Vincent Margera died in 2015 and the world would never see Don Vito again.     
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Sep 23, 2019 22:43
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Timeless Appeal posted:No, the issue is that people are thinking in terms of what is fair for Louis CK instead of everyone else in the world. I know that people claim they don't care for CK, and that's fine, but there's like no consideration in this thread for the people to work for him. Why should a female comedian have to choose between her career and the threat of someone jerking off in front of her? The free market shouldn't allow hostile work environments and that's it. That's precisely the opposite of what I'm doing. I couldn't give any less of a poo poo about Louis CK. I'm thinking about every else out there who would be at the mercy of this government apparatus that you are theoretically putting in power as the arbiter or who is allowed to be employed and who isn't. And you yourself said it: Timeless Appeal posted:2) Private Sector businesses can already be sued for negligence for not taking abuse and harassment seriously. Functionally, the law does see a responsibility to avoid a hostile work environment and punishes those who do not take action. People who are negligently exposed to a hostile work environment have recourse, they can sue the employer. It's this idea of preemptively declaring someone illegal to hire that I think is a step over the line and would be so easy to abuse.
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Sep 23, 2019 22:47
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Bonaventure posted:Ellen should have come out by carving "Yep, I'm gay" into the chest of a headless corpse and stringing it up in the doorway of a barn, something like what would have been done by a more progressive gay icon, Hannibal Lecter. https://twitter.com/shanley/status/1109178443453747200?s=19
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Sep 24, 2019 00:44
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Zogo posted:I think back to Vincent Margera AKA Don Vito AKA Bam Margera's Uncle. He got in trouble for groping a bunch of young fans. He said it was part of his Don Vito persona so the judge barred him from performing for ten whole years (a solid decade). Michelle Obama is the only person in that photo without blood on their hands.
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Sep 24, 2019 00:51
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