|
java is also the issue always
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 07:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 03:54 |
|
|
thanks. that's the kind of insightful comment I come to this den of tech experts for.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 07:41
|
|
|
im thinking back real hard and i cannot recall a single time i was positive after interacting with anything that needed java
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 07:42
|
|
|
same with adobe air, macromedia flash, all of those plugin-needed bullshit extensions. the modern web is getting there but java is so gross from a user perspective
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 07:43
|
|
|
scaling confluence requires 'data center' and its very cumbersome and requires a shared store like NFS. it can be properly sharded and load balanced though. that is a different license however. most people thus try and throw more hardware at their single node, so it runs like complete poo poo always the atlassian cloud was even worse because it was all openvz containers with the minimal amount of resources, and the hosts were hilariously oversubscribed. they changed the architecture after i left but it was basically the equivalent of handing money to hostgator or something at the time
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:02
|
|
|
atlassians engineering org was very poor, and they were completely unprepared for running any kind of SaaS. they simply lacked the talent and expertise before the IPO. thats of course unsurprising though because they are australians
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:06
|
|
|
Unprepared for running a SaaS, like they didn't anticipate users submitting text fields containing emoji?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:15
|
|
|
atlassian is first and foremost a support company. unprepared as in they had no infrastructure people, no operations knowledge, and their only worthwhile applications are a completely lovely + ancient monolithic architecture JIRA was particularly bad. for example it originally didn't have any foreign keys or constraints in its DB schema so literally EVERY installation in the wild had corrupted data somewhere. it was also an enormous undertaking to attempt to make it multi-tenant
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:22
|
|
|
How many confluence users can you have before it blows up on a single node? We’re looking at no more than 1500 total with maybe 50-100 actually using it. We do have a spare HP SuperDome X to run it on though
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:27
|
|
|
it doesnt matter if confluence is bad or good since all internal wikis are just repositories for documents that nobody reads, ever. we have approximately 3 such systems (in a <200 person company lol), all of which entered use because someone was like "ah, if only the wiki solution was BETTER, people would use it for something more!" the blog functionality lets me type in markdown and get shown the resulting rendered formatting immediately so that's cool i guess.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:30
|
|
|
I set up my own replicated dokuwiki because at least with that one I know I can still access the documentation if something bad happens. Nobody else edits it because apparently wiki syntax is impossible to learn How is MediaWiki nowadays? The last version I installed was in 2008 I think
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:43
|
|
|
florida lan posted:it doesnt matter if confluence is bad or good since all internal wikis are just repositories for documents that nobody reads, ever. we have approximately 3 such systems (in a <200 person company lol), all of which entered use because someone was like "ah, if only the wiki solution was BETTER, people would use it for something more!" first job i had (at a large multinational) had a twiki install which was very lightly structured and policed, but was then genuinely a treasure trove of real information on things. very much one of those where it needs to be as low-friction as possible to work though
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:50
|
|
|
wikimedia is fine if just you just need a simple, basic wiki it probably also has the widest array of various plugins for it since it's relatively popular thanks to wikipedia i've been running one at work for almost 10 years, along with a ldap auth plugin and it's been working without a single hitch so far. the confluence instance we have is finally seeing some use now that support moved from mails to jira support desk tho, so i'm looking forward to one of the two failing catastrophically soon
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:56
|
|
|
r u ready to WALK posted:How many confluence users can you have before it blows up on a single node? We’re looking at no more than 1500 total with maybe 50-100 actually using it. thats lightweight, shouldnt be an issue
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:57
|
|
|
r u ready to WALK posted:How many confluence users can you have before it blows up on a single node? We’re looking at no more than 1500 total with maybe 50-100 actually using it. confluence used to work fine for thousands of users without sharding, but when you bolt ten years of poo poo to the side of the same old app things start not to work as well see also: jira
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:58
|
|
|
Sniep posted:java is also the issue always the wrongest thing ever posted
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 08:58
|
|
|
r u ready to WALK posted:I hate how Confluence is a giant slow java pig because the functionality is pretty good and infinitely better than Shartpoint share point never worked, ever its core design involves serialising objects to ms sql and deserialising them on every page render think about that for a second hundreds or thousands of sql BLOB retrieval’s for every page load
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 09:00
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:share point never worked, ever I must be misunderstanding you because that sounds like 99.9% of all webpages everywhere. what do you mean "serialising" to MSSQL?
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 09:07
|
|
|
abigserve posted:I must be misunderstanding you because that sounds like 99.9% of all webpages everywhere. what do you mean "serialising" to MSSQL? I mean if you have a “share point list” that is not a bunch of rows in a database it is a set of .net objects serialised to giant text blobs, and written to th DB as sql BLOB types edit: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/relational-databases/blob/binary-large-object-blob-data-sql-server?view=sql-server-2017
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 09:09
|
|
|
Notorious b.s.d. posted:I mean if you have a “share point list” that is not a bunch of rows in a database lol
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 09:11
|
|
|
sounds like they should have used mongodb
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 09:37
|
|
|
Sniep posted:im thinking back real hard and i cannot recall a single time i was positive after interacting with anything that needed java everyone here says java is good and fast but every java app or webapp is slow and bad
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 09:58
|
|
|
my stepdads beer posted:everyone here says java is good and fast but every java app or webapp is slow and bad more weird 90s bullshit tomcat, the most bloated java thing that ever existed, serves static content as fast as apache
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 09:59
|
|
|
I think the real phenomenon is that if you notice a web app was written in java it is because it is an eneterprise grade disaster ruining your day java is not the villain in that scenario java doesn’t make oracle ebusiness suite slow and bad. Oracle made it that way. java was just th hot buzzword at th time
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 10:00
|
|
|
The problem is that increasingly robust, fast languages and faster hardware enables increasingly bad programmers to build shippable garbage. It's almost a zero sum game
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 10:02
|
|
|
r u ready to WALK posted:The problem is that increasingly robust, fast languages and faster hardware enables increasingly bad programmers to build shippable garbage. I suspect java has done us good in this light could be worse, could be literally any scripting language
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 10:08
|
|
|
The slowest piece of software I interact with is vagrant which is written in ruby And man It is a dog
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 10:23
|
|
|
can’t be worse than planning a meeting with outlook on Mac when your directory is hybrid on-prem/azure and you need a meeting room
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 10:34
|
|
|
r u ready to WALK posted:The problem is that increasingly robust, fast languages and faster hardware enables increasingly bad programmers to build shippable garbage. for java specifically one of the advantages (which at times appears to be a disadvantage) is that it was one of the first languages to really push a certain style, not only syntactically, but also of abstraction. that is, you can go out and hire java programmers, put them to a task with little guidance, and given a (not very high) base level of competence they'll produce solutions which are broadly similar, and which will tend to prominently feature tiny units of abstraction which makes them easy to integrate with each other or other pieces of software. compare e.g. to c++ where even hugely competent programmers would often create things which are far more mutually incompatible (from simply being so different in styles that they require vastly different skillsets to understand right up to sufficiently incompatible pointer management/thread setups/runtime circumstances that it'd be a research task to properly mix them). this commodification is a good thing, e.g. making it a lot more doable to run a project as a normal 9-5 job where things can get done even in the face of people e.g. going on sick leave or new people being hired. it also means that a lot of projects which would in the past have just failed spectacularly (it's broken, no one understands how it works, and the person closest to understanding just quit) will more frequently be pushed across the finish line through dogged effort, piling on the special cases and extra layers of abstraction until it from most points of observations seems to do the thing intended, which will tend to produce stuff that might be filled with warts and unpleasant to use. which is not necessarily pleasing, but really is for the best. incidentally go is pretty lovely, including in this regard, but rob pike was not wrong observing that languages should be designed with this (it by default being easy to hire a 9-5 programmer to just jump into a project) in mind. gofmt is pretty much the only part of go that achieves anything in this regard though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 10:39
|
|
|
cassandra is written in java and i hate it. therefore
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 10:41
|
|
|
CMYK BLYAT! posted:except when your old person manager tries to make a ticketing system out of it and force it on the team because they can't understand jira counterpoint: jira sucks
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 14:17
|
|
|
people who actually like jira are the worst.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 14:32
|
|
|
jira and confluence are pretty good and miles better than the alternatives.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 14:42
|
|
|
one of the biggest problems is how easy it is to install plugins and plugins are almost universally poo poo
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 14:42
|
|
|
no one learned from wordpress
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 14:46
|
|
|
Shaggar posted:jira and confluence are pretty bad but miles better than the alternatives.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 14:58
|
|
|
the best thing we did for the stability of our jira instance was to remove people from jira admins
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 14:58
|
|
|
SharePoint is not that bad anymore. Now, you can mount it as a worse Dropbox drive and aside from the once a month the Onedrive application shits it self, documents synchronize to team members. A folder full of Word and Excel files may not be great, but it is heaps ahead of a slow as gently caress wiki without a working search function. Plus you can answer any question with “the information you’re looking for is on SharePoint” and nobody can prove you wrong.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 15:03
|
|
|
that's not really sharepoint tho. that's one drive that's been semi rebranded as sharepoint. you can still do classic sharepoint in office 365 and its still really bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 15:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 03:54 |
|
|
klafbang posted:Plus you can answer any question with “the information you’re looking for is on SharePoint” and nobody can prove you wrong. This is good in theory but the management will just tell you to find it for them
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2019 15:30
|
|