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VelociBacon posted:Just bring back the old infestors please. I miss OG fungal. VelociBacon, please.
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Sep 29, 2019 18:17
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Zwabu posted:
What? This is an insane claim. Zerg has a bunch of ways to deal with air. Vipers alone are crazy powerful. Also benefiting Zerg players going up against air armies is that the core macro mechanics of Larva allows Zergs to quickly transition their entire army composition.
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Sep 30, 2019 09:20
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Vipers need a nerf, infested need a nerf, and Protoss needs to have some nerf/change done to warp prisms and then be rebalanced accordingly. E: maybe give Terran ravens a tiny bit of damage added back to the armor shredders? Like even just 5.
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Sep 30, 2019 09:21
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Has anyone seen anything particularly interesting come out of the stim timing change? In PvT I've had a couple of games (usually against people with better MMRs - ~5kish) where it seems like I'm hit at these weird times where I should've been okay but wasn't. But it's hard for me to say what exactly happened, given the 400 odd points of MMR difference, whether I lost because of the build the other guy ran or because they're just better than me. I'd think some optimised builds that make use of the timing would be pretty tight. (For the other major change, I have definitely been hit by some builds relying on the new EMP radius upgrade that loving shredded me where it was the build that was decisive - but I could see in those games where I could've done things differently to win; usually the loss is mainly due to the fact I just didn't factor in the possibility of the EMP upgrade, rather than anything that might be tough to figure out.) Neurosis fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 10:39
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Vipers need a nerf, infested need a nerf, and Protoss needs to have some nerf/change done to warp prisms and then be rebalanced accordingly. Buff matrix, it's interesting, counters prisms, and if it was longer it could combat infrstors. finally watched the finals, about what I thought. Trap has based PvT, very tepid PvZ. Rogues interview calling out his lack of zergs was spot on.
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Sep 30, 2019 20:22
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Buffing raven matrix would be good for the mid game but it wouldn’t solve the late game zerg problem of infestors and vipers. Fundamentally Zerg is going to have way more infestors/vipers more energy to cast more spells than Terran would. Viper anti air spell needs something change about it. Watching TY expertly micro the three targeted Vikings from a flock of Vikings and still suffering absurd damage to the flock is dumb. Maybe a Radius nerf? It would still rock air because air stuff stacks.
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Sep 30, 2019 22:21
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Ahhh (super tournament spoilers) the loving nyduses in game 2 of Stats/Rogue. I feel vicariously frustrated by the never-ending deployment. Rogue def played better though.
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Oct 3, 2019 09:29
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More super tournament tonight boys. TY on the menu
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Oct 4, 2019 03:25
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Hell yeah, last night's games were a bunch of knife fights.
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Oct 4, 2019 04:34
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This balance patch seems extremely dubious if it goes through as is
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Oct 4, 2019 07:47
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their led wall is misconfigured at the gsl studio. but did they know? i can fix it. =D
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Oct 4, 2019 09:30
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pretty sure its just wrong cabinet row and column count on the box =DDDD
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Oct 4, 2019 09:32
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Parting holy gently caress 
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Oct 4, 2019 09:36
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Parting holy gently caress yea. tasteless and artosis are really good tonight. must be well rested or something lol
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Oct 4, 2019 09:39
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Herstory Begins Now posted:This balance patch seems extremely dubious if it goes through as is Here https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/23159844/starcraft-ii-balance-update-2019 What the gently caress is with the infested terran damage buff? Bases already disappear in a puff of smoke once late game is hit and investors poo poo out terrans. The comments below those changes are baffling. quote:Infested Terran energy cost increased from 25 to 50. The theory is that if there's less density of infested terrans AOE will be more effective against them. But zergs can just... You know, spread the eggs a bit, right? On an infested terran by infested terran basis they're less vulnerable. And, even at double the mana cost - well, is mana ever a serious limiting factor in the supreme lategame game where infestors are king? I'll admit I don't let the game get that late very often so maybe I'm wrong but my impression is by that point zerg usually have so many of them that it's not a problem. The broodlord nerf is a lot more serious: quote:Brood Lord I do like the BC warp-out tweak, I think that's a fair change that doesn't make them useless but doesn't allow them to engage in annoying cost-free manoeuvers. And they're screwing around with void ray upgrades again. I look forward to the ideal late-game PvZ army being 12 supply of HTs and 188 of void rays.
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Oct 4, 2019 09:42
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Parting holy gently caress Those builds were extremely tight and I am going to have to watch it more closely to get the timings down.
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Oct 4, 2019 09:42
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I love parting but I don't think that poo poo would have worked against Rogue
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Oct 4, 2019 20:33
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Neurosis posted:Here https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/starcraft2/23159844/starcraft-ii-balance-update-2019 I like the adept and zealot changes, as an idea. Dunno if the ideas will pan out well. Love the blue flame buff. I think its one of the low-hanging fruit changes that could help the game. I wish they also made it like 5 seconds faster to research. Raven changes; speed buff is good and necessary. Matrix nerf seems not great. Lurker changes seem interesting. 10 range is something else. I like the general design theory behind the patch; increase the number of upgrades to provide more granular changes in the power level of units throughout the game. E; the core problem of warp prisms is still not resolved :/
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Oct 4, 2019 22:29
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Every single game tonight looks like it has the potential to be amazing, god drat those matchups
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Oct 5, 2019 08:53
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That g2 Parting vs TY was freaking excellent. One of the best PvT's I've ever seen, easy. Re:infested terrans, I don't really see the problem. They're about twice as strong, except for health, but cost twice the energy so zerg can only make half as many. They should be more vulnerable to storm now since both the units and eggs are still under 80 hp.
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Oct 5, 2019 12:11
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I get your psi storm argument for the infested Terran thing, but I still have concerns. One of the weaknesses of infested Terran was that they occupied a lot of physical space. Doing the submarine move to the edge of the enemy and then shooting a bunch of eggs meant that some of the infested Terrans couldn’t shoot and had to waddle forward. Essentially making infested Terran twice as good for twice the energy price, there’s actually a bump to their collective efficiency.
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Oct 5, 2019 17:27
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For sure, even if the dps-per-mana is the same, the fact that their DPS is twice as compact and twice as focused is a good thing in general.
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Oct 5, 2019 18:22
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it's just loving insane that a free unit has a 24 damage attack and you can spawn several of them and the caster making them has other extremely strong spells and only takes 2 supply and doesn't even cost much to make. Like I truly do not know what blizz is thinking with free units as they're fundamentally immune to balance Blizz's response to it is weird, too, because the pros are pretty much universally in agreement about the state of the infestor and that has absolutely been communicated to blizzard, yet somehow the infestor persists
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Oct 5, 2019 21:53
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It sucks because stylistically, the idea of the bug race being able to make some more smaller bugs for free is thematic to the idea of the endless swarm. Unfortunately the larva mechanic means you can make a bajillion of the casters all at once and a short while later a bajllion free units. Compare that with the other races. As a silly example; imagine if ghosts could cast a summon. To mass spam them, Terran would have to restructure an enormous component of their macro infrastructure to mass produce Ghosts.
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Oct 5, 2019 23:06
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At least they're doing something about it, to me the more depressing thing is they've said nothing about PvP's ridiculously restrictive meta. Sure, there's plenty of different openers, but once you hit mid-game you have no choice but to make the One True Composition. It's ridiculous compared to TvT or ZvZ. There really needs to be something that counters immortals and archons reasonably well.
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Oct 5, 2019 23:40
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Man, soO gives away some easy wins from trying some really weak-rear end cheeses. One base roach rush on a big map? Really?
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Oct 6, 2019 02:35
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Cicero posted:At least they're doing something about it, to me the more depressing thing is they've said nothing about PvP's ridiculously restrictive meta. Sure, there's plenty of different openers, but once you hit mid-game you have no choice but to make the One True Composition. It's ridiculous compared to TvT or ZvZ. There really needs to be something that counters immortals and archons reasonably well. Absolutely. PvP’s ONE TRUE composition is so boring... it’s weird they haven’t mentioned anything about it considering it’s fairly widely acknowledged in the community
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Oct 6, 2019 03:59
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Cicero posted:That g2 Parting vs TY was freaking excellent. One of the best PvT's I've ever seen, easy. Jumping jackrabbits, you weren’t kidding! That was awesome.
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Oct 6, 2019 04:02
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What a wonky third game Also shut the gently caress up about the burgers Tasteless
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Oct 6, 2019 11:12
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Game four of the finals is epic. Along with game 2 of Parting/TY, the games of the tournament maybe?
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Oct 6, 2019 18:10
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starting to get a little tired of late game zerg
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Oct 6, 2019 23:26
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For how many 3-0s there were, it was a super enjoyable tournament all around.
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Oct 7, 2019 12:58
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^ Yeah, relatively speaking I agree. Also agree late game zerg needs some tweaks. Make broodlords even a bit slower maybe?
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Oct 7, 2019 17:30
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The range fix on them will be a big start, that they can effectively attack from 12 range makes it way easier to never have to properly commit them vs 8 or 9 range. IMO infestors are still going to be stupid strong after the changes and I 100% do not get why they get neural by default now when they were already universally understood to be the most broken unit in the game.
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Oct 7, 2019 18:52
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One nerf to infestors I thought would be a an appropriate theme & balance change would be to make fungal only affect bio units. This would be consistent with the Raven’s interference matrix limits, for example.
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Oct 7, 2019 19:19
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Maybe given infested terran casting like a 3 or 4 second cooldown, and make them a bit fatter? The biggest problem with infested terrans is that they scale too well with lots of infestors and energy. It's like the opposite of templar where the first handful are very useful for storm but having lots really isn't, and having full energy isn't that huge of an advantage over having 75.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:33
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Furious Lobster posted:One nerf to infestors I thought would be a an appropriate theme & balance change would be to make fungal only affect bio units. This would be consistent with the Raven’s interference matrix limits, for example. Ravens can "only" hit mechanical and psionic units with interference matrix. Name a single unit that is worth disabling that does not fall into one of those two categories  The only one I can think of is maybe broodlords, but using i matrix on broods would be situational at best. I have no idea how the changes to infestors will affect them, much less in combination with all of the other range changes made to siege units.
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Oct 8, 2019 02:21
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quote:In addition to reducing the Medivac's Ignite Afterburners cooldown by 5 seconds, this upgrade will also increase the Medivac's base movement speed from 3.5 to 4.13. However, this upgrade will not affect Medivac’s movement speed during the Ignite Afterburners effect. This lowers the cooldown to 3.6. The duration of afterburners is 4.3 seconds. This'll change the average move speed of a Medivac to ~5.1. Those motherfuckers are going to be tough to catch - although over a long enough distance mutalisks (5.6 speed) and phoenices (5.95) will still catch up. Vikings will be completely unable to catch them (3.85 move speed) but they rely more on huge range anyway.
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Oct 8, 2019 09:51
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Synastren posted:Ravens can "only" hit mechanical and psionic units with interference matrix. Overseer and Ultralisks. Point taken though, it’s a much wider range than I thought of initially. What do you feel about the proposed nerf to fungal though?
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Oct 8, 2019 15:58
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Furious Lobster posted:Overseer and Ultralisks. Point taken though, it’s a much wider range than I thought of initially. What do you feel about the proposed nerf to fungal though? About making fungal affect only bio units? At that point you may as well remove it from the game, because it would then only be used in the following increasingly situational examples:
What you'd lose:
Losing the non-overseer detection is massive against biomine, mass banshee, or if protoss gets a mothership and zerg can't immediately kill it in an engagement. As for the Ultra/Overseer matrix thing, I have no idea of matrix turns off detection. Overseers are big blimps anyway, and I can't really fathom more than the rare situation where turning them off is beneficial to quickly targeting them or ignoring them. As for ultras? Unless a disabled unit is dropped on the priority list, it won't do much. Ultras are big damage sponges more than damage dealers most of the time. And if they don't get automatically targeted, they'll get to run right into the middle of the terran blob as matrix wears off and cleave for days. There's a lot of weird not-quite-right observations floating around itt. Infestors are the same gas and supply as high templar, with a nominally higher mineral cost (50 mins more); they're not exactly cheap. Terrans don't get the big gas bank that Zerg does because bio terrans won't saturate every gas they have to avoid float, and they incorporate a steady gas expenditure in mines/tanks and medivacs. Usually there are only a couple of tech labs on rax, but that can increase if terran scouts faster-than-usual ultras. Tech labs are cheap, and terran buildings float, so the massive infrastructure change to Terran to allow mass ghost would be to mine more gas than they currently do. Protoss expands almost as fast as zerg now, and it's not weird to see a late game protoss on 10-12 warpgates. Templar have to be built before their intended use because Khadarin Amulet is gone and Pathogen Glands isn't--but you can make HTs wherever you have a pylon, and you can make them away from danger instead of spread across all of your bases. Zerg hoovers up gas hungerly because 1) zerg units generally suck in low numbers, except for casters, and; 2) all zerg units but queens and lings require gas. Heavy ling styles have developed to build a gas bank for the transition into broods and/or infestors and/or vipers and/or ultras as expediently as possible. Infestors' strength has historically (including now!) been based on the metagame, and the metagame heavily pushes infestors to answer a number of Terran/Protoss strategies.
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Oct 8, 2019 22:44
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