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I think, yes, a lot of people are personally offended. But there's a political point in all of this. Part of it is that too many people are trying to replicate hierarchies, just putting leftist content creators as their spiritual guides or whatever. NO GODS NO MASTERS. these people are deeply flawed, and Natalie and her friends, no matter how much research they do, are entertainers. hbomb's stream became what it was, by his own admission, not because of him but because of Casey Explosion and the trans community. if I want to actually educate myself, there's people like donoteat, ThoughtSlime, Mexie, etc. but they're not idols. they're just people that know a few things. but they're more primarily educational. The Left is definitely desperate for charismatic leaders, and that is reflected in the parasocial relationships with content creators. Part of the sense of betrayal is large swathes of the trans community realizing that Contra does not represent them, that she can't and won't be their leader. Indeed, she's barely interested in politics as all, it largely seems an excuse to play dress-up, get praise, and fund her transition. Has she done good? Maybe. Is it time people realized she's just an entertainer? yes. I think within the last year or so, ContraPoints and Philosophy Tube have totally lost the plot in terms of whatever ambition they previously had to make any political difference. and it's time we recognize that. It sucks, it really does. but this Buck Angel incident is a pretty clear breaking point, and it's an opportunity to maybe help people understand the toxicity of parasocial relationships, and also the necessity of finding leadership that's actually interested in putting themselves on the line for change. Most people are not particularly brave, courageous, willing to seriously challenge the established order. People maybe were under the misapprehension that Natalie and Olly were among those brave people. They aren't. they're, again, entertainers. Someday Olly's going to quit this for acting full-time. Contra may move over to just being a fashion channel at some point. Contra's latest video is even framed as an address to the revolutionaries - an expectation she's not going to be seen as a comrade, and an admission of sorts that she isn't. that doesn't absolve them of responsibility to be better, but we should reframe how we view them.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:03
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The Patrick Willems video is pretty fun and cute. I love pretty much all of content that his parents are a part of and it was neat seeing how well they swam after being shoved into the MCU deep end.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:10
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Hoping that Nyx's stream is good. SunAndSpring posted:Feels very bizarre to me to now shift the focus to “Natalie Wynn’s friends must immediately get into a struggle session and then make her denounce her reactionary ways before sending her to jail forever or else all suffer the consequences of being labeled counter-revolutionaries” but I guess this is how leftism works if you learn it from internet posting. It's more a matter of pattern recognition. Ollie's first tweet was innocent enough. A lot of people who aren't plugged in don't know who Buck Angel is. I didn't know about the transmedicalist/truscum statements until someone pointed it out. So the first tweet is a little joke that was poorly timed. But now there's a second that seems to be pulling the old "oh, Twitter, welp what can you do?" When that's not really what's happening. The points against Natalie are pretty concrete and simple this time. It's hard to get too mad at the replies, since most of them are just people who are disappointed in Ollie and want a clear answer and not cheeky bullshit. It's not healthy to feel that kind of investment in an Internet stranger, but it's still natural to be a bit bummed out. How many people in this thread would feel bad if Keanu Reeves (or whoever, pick someone) said something really lovely? efb: And yeah, also all that stuff that Spatula City posted. People are desperate to identify with someone. So they invest in someone that looks good, they forget that it's a persona and ultimately feel betrayed. I will defend the behavior somewhat that a lot of these people may be living in lovely situations or a place where they can't express themselves in their real life. So dumping a lot of emotional energy into online life is a release. It's not great, but if they're stuck in a lovely place it's the best that they can do.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:19
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Contra poo poo this time is not mistweetinf but basically breaking the leftubers code of conduct and then issuing a statement that it's fine if she does that. So don't count her as part of it anymore.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:23
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i just want people to be held accountable nothing more nothing less
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Oct 19, 2019 22:24
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Hemingway To Go! posted:Contra poo poo this time is not mistweetinf but basically breaking the leftubers code of conduct and then issuing a statement that it's fine if she does that. So don't count her as part of it anymore. "The leftubers code of conduct". They're not the freaking Round Table.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:28
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it’s cool and good that random nobodiea who make dumb vidyas are apparently like the big Intellectual Figureheads of global socialism or whatever, and not just random idiots with a camera and way too much spare time, so whenever they do something dumb it’s worse than when Turkey genocides Kurds
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Oct 19, 2019 22:35
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ulvir posted:it’s cool and good that random nobodiea who make dumb vidyas are apparently like the big Intellectual Figureheads of global socialism or whatever, and not just random idiots with a camera and way too much spare time, so whenever they do something dumb it’s worse than when Turkey genocides Kurds Yeah dude you sure owned that imaginary person.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:38
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ulvir posted:it’s cool and good that random nobodiea who make dumb vidyas are apparently like the big Intellectual Figureheads of global socialism or whatever, and not just random idiots with a camera and way too much spare time, so whenever they do something dumb it’s worse than when Turkey genocides Kurds "Maybe people who broadcast content on political issues shouldn't poo poo on marginalised groups" "BUT WHAT ABOUT TURKEY"
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Oct 19, 2019 22:40
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There are starving children in Africa! Anyway, on NyxFears/May's stream she's talking about running into minor celebrities at convention bathrooms and the time that Matthew Lillard tried to convince her that John Carpenter died and successfully covered it up. So that's fun.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:44
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ArfJason posted:as someone who never played RE1 and only finished REmake last year for the first time, i feel like knowing in advance about Crimson Heads does make the game a bunch easier, while still giving just enough ammo, so i feel you might be on a really tough spot rn, but im surprised at just how much extra healing items i had by the end (a complete novice who only played re4), so dont worry about your performance, theres a shocking amount of leeway, and i can guarantee people who did worse than you got through. make sure to know which hallways are the high traffic areas to clear out and you'll be alright but iirc crits (exploding headshots) are rng, so dont go too crazy on getting up close and personal and aiming up. good luck goon! Thanks for the encouragement. Also, you're right: Jill has eight slots, and Chris only has six. I guess I mixed it up because I thought Chris had more carry room because of that vest he wears or something. AstroWhale posted:extremely no-click  Dapper_Swindler posted:I prefer "The dog that got shot out back for ruining Christmas" myself. The Dog Who Saved Christmas The Dog Who Ruined Christmas The Dog Who Got Taken Out Back for Ruining Christmas One of the lesser known film trilogies.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:46
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DoubleCakes posted:XOXO uploaded Lindsay Ellis' talk on being the target of a hate-mob last year and the emotional toll it took on her. A part of it that I’d never thought of is that it must be humiliating to have to describe the context for all that poo poo to somebody who isn’t extremely online because it’s all so strange and stupid, and the anti-PBS one is probably the easiest to understand from the outside. But maybe naming abuse is always like that because the effect is to make people feel ashamed.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:47
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:There are starving children in Africa! holy poo poo
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Oct 19, 2019 22:47
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Hoping that Nyx's stream is good. Yeah, the first tweet was right before people really noticed Buck Angel in the video and the pushback got rolling hard. It would've been smartest just to delete the tweet and issue an apology for yet another "lol cancel culture" joke that's really not that clever and was poorly timed on top of it all, but instead he decided to keep rolling with it and now he looks like an rear end in a top hat to a lot of his fans.
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Oct 19, 2019 23:06
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watho posted:i just want people to be held accountable nothing more nothing less Please log off.
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Oct 19, 2019 23:24
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FoldableHuman posted:Please log off. this kinda just sums up this entire thing. "I'd kinda like people to have some level of accountability, especially in leftist spaces, when they try to get all cute about supporting people who hurt people like me" "Lol over invested parasocial relationship much????" Like, I mean, you get why maybe this is a bit reductionist and kinda ignores why it is a lot of people on that side of the spectrum maybe do wind up with kinda more investment in the few people on the garbage video site that allegedly give a poo poo about empathy and supporting people and all having just a basic amount of actually walking the walk when it's not for youtube views?
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Oct 19, 2019 23:35
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Stormgale posted:"Maybe people who broadcast content on political issues shouldn't poo poo on marginalised groups" The part of it that seems so strange from the outside is how the demand for acknowledgment is spiderwebbing out to people who have some connection to the person who has a connection with Buck Angel. It is reasonable to criticize Contrapoints if you disagree with her choices, but anger at the silence of others because you feel they owe you recognition is not great. “You” doesn’t mean you the op or any specific person here. Like, why feel betrayed by philosophy tube because he’s not responding to your posts? Of course he’s not going to acknowledge you. No acknowledgement would ever satisfy everyone feeling upset at present and the general taint of betrayal or nonspecific “he’s a bad ally” would never go away no matter what he did. Also Contrapoints is a real, actual person who he knows in his real life—of course he would defend her even to the point of unreason. Whether it’s justifiable to you or not, wouldn’t you behave the same way for someone you cared about? The response to him is largely good-faith in that it’s motivated by what the respondents say is motivating them, but nobody can ever live up to the expectation that they will perfectly respect and support a diverse audience with multiple contradictory needs. You can see where it might go: the silence itself becomes the transgression and then in three years someone tries to share Lindsay Ellis talking about the Bambi II live action remake and then there’s a post about how somebody heard she was a transphobe and it’s because she didn’t make a post about Buck Angel in 2019. Then AOC has to start defending herself against people posting how she was on hbomb’s stream and hbomb of course never swore off Contrapoints. It’s better by far to not get invested in strangers that way. Of course they’ll let you down: don’t you let yourself down? Doesn’t everyone let someone down? Also, they’re people. Just think about how it would feel to get people posting nasty things at you at a great volume and think about how you’d like it. Maybe it’s unfair to paint everyone with the brush of the 38-year-old posting in multiple threads that philosophy tube has betrayed the lgbtq community because he’s hoping Contrapoints will gently caress him, but is it really unreasonable to see why someone would?
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Oct 19, 2019 23:42
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Like there’s for sure people who are taking it way too far and putting lampposts in contrapoints’ videos but claiming that everyone who are upset have an unhealthy parasocial relationship or is jealous is also not a great look but i agree with dan (because I put him on a pedestal and will have a breakdown if he ever does anything i disagrees with), online is bad and I should log off more often e: the problem people have with philosophy tube is that he keeps making cheeky references to it while not actually saying anything watho fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 23:42
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Did someone force Olly, at gunpoint, to be in Contra's video? Did someone force him to then get in front of the controversy (as you would get in front of a car to be intentionally hit by it) by talking about how it's going to get him "canceled", and then continue making fun of it? There are easy, simple, straightforward steps he could have taken, and he has actively taken steps in the opposite direction. He's not being asked to do some weird performative struggle session in a show trial in the gulags or whatever. This is besides the question of whatever the gently caress "breadtube" is or what pedestals people are putting entertaining video essay people on the interwebs on.
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Oct 19, 2019 23:45
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like this isn't as complicated as all y'all are making it, really. or even perhaps, as vitriolic or ridiculous to expect whenever trevor bauer (for example) says something loving idiotic on twitter, baseball players, including his teammates get asked about it by reporters and there's always a bog standard like "well yadda yadda trevor is who trevor is and yadda yadda" and sometimes another player even calls it out when kyrie irving started blathering about the flat earth he was roasted across the NBA what contra did was really hosed up, and her "teammates" (such that they are) not only circled the wagons but have doubled down. not even a hint of, say, some sort of coded "truscum are trash" solo subtweets or something at the very least it's interesting that none of the prominent lefty youtubers have said anything, regardless of everyone getting on their fainting couches about pArAsoCiAl ReLaTiOnShIpS. in our circle of the internet these people are public figures, and in the rest of our pop culture arena, it's incredibly common for public figures to be asked about and weigh in about what other public figures say or do. it's a thing that happens. Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 23:55
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Did someone force Olly, at gunpoint, to be in Contra's video? Did someone force him to then get in front of the controversy (as you would get in front of a car to be intentionally hit by it) by talking about how it's going to get him "canceled", and then continue making fun of it? There are easy, simple, straightforward steps he could have taken, and he has actively taken steps in the opposite direction. He's not being asked to do some weird performative struggle session in a show trial in the gulags or whatever. This is besides the question of whatever the gently caress "breadtube" is or what pedestals people are putting entertaining video essay people on the interwebs on. There was no controversy to get in front of when Olly made that post, and since then he's only made that quote from Chinatown I think? Edit: of posts people are talking about I mean Bug Squash fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Oct 20, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 23:56
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Bug Squash posted:There was no controversy to get in front of when Olly made that post, and since then he's only made that quote from Chinatown I think? Fine, replace "intentionally" with "accidentally". He still decided he's going to stay in the path of that car. I mean for gently caress's sake, it's not he's just friends with her, he contributed to the video in question.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:00
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Bug Squash posted:There was no controversy to get in front of when Olly made that post, and since then he's only made that quote from Chinatown I think? 'forget it, jake, it's twitter dot com' is probably one of the most rear end in a top hat statements he could have chosen
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Oct 20, 2019 00:02
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I get the concern about boosting or platforming a dangerous person and then claiming ignorance, because some of youtube’s most famous people are literally cryptonazis whose actual purpose is to mainstream fascism while pretending to be reasonable centrists or comedians who don’t know what they’re doing. But that jumpy sense of uncertainty is also part of the effect the nazis are trying to create.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:06
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Maybe his next video should be him whipping himself with a cat o' nine tails for every negative reply he got to a dumb one line Twitter post. Would this please everyone?
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Oct 20, 2019 00:15
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Kim Justice posted:Maybe his next video should be him whipping himself with a cat o' nine tails for every negative reply he got to a dumb one line Twitter post. Would this please everyone? Honestly, I'm sure he's a thousand times likelier to do that than actually apologize like a loving adult.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:18
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Honestly, I'm sure he's a thousand times likelier to do that than actually apologize like a loving adult. Apologise for...what? Saying Twitter is bad?
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Oct 20, 2019 00:20
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Kim Justice posted:Apologise for...what? Saying Twitter is bad? Making light of people's legitimate concerns about a production he was involved in and that he's repeatedly making fun of instead of addressing.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:21
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Kim Justice posted:Maybe his next video should be him whipping himself with a cat o' nine tails for every negative reply he got to a dumb one line Twitter post. Would this please everyone? No because people don't want to see them punished, they want them them to stop loving up and throw people under the bus. A simple "my bad" would be enough of an apology as long as they stopped with the (intentionally or not) lovely behaviour.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:22
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The part of it that seems so strange from the outside is how the demand for acknowledgment is spiderwebbing out to people who have some connection to the person who has a connection with Buck Angel. It is reasonable to criticize Contrapoints if you disagree with her choices, but anger at the silence of others because you feel they owe you recognition is not great. “You” doesn’t mean you the op or any specific person here. (i'm aware you weren't directing it at me but it's a good post to respond to) For me at least I don't expect anything, same I feel when I dunno some movie star defends Jonny dep or any other bad person in holywood. It's crappy, it may affect how much I can enjoy their content it may not. Like Scarlet Johannsen is the one to my mind for various statements and roles she played a whitewashed version of. As for the spiderwebbing, for me at least Olly took part in the project itself so that's at least a dividing line for me. He has participated in a product that can quite easily be said contributed to doing some harmful things. As someone who plays videogames or movies or consumes a product that exists, there's certainly an element of knowing some rear end in a top hat somewhere has a part in making the Sausage. The only argument i'd make for there possibly being an expected response is the direct cross promotion and interaction, there's (rightly or not) not level of disconnect like there is between the awfulness of a corporate entity. It's 1 bad person (publically) Kim Justice posted:He hasn't actually said one word in defense of Buck Angel. Aside from his post saying he's in the Contra video he hasn't even said anything about that either. You can't actually say for sure if his post is even in reference to that. I'd argue (as do a lot of people) that this sort of discussion is interesting contrasting his whole "Belive people when they say theirs smoke" line of discussion. Stormgale fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 20, 2019 |
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Oct 20, 2019 00:27
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Making light of people's legitimate concerns about a production he was involved in and that he's repeatedly making fun of instead of addressing. He hasn't actually said one word in defense of Buck Angel. Aside from his post saying he's in the Contra video he hasn't even said anything about that either. You can't actually say for sure if his post is even in reference to that. In light of that, I can't help but think that this is...well, slightly disproportionate. I mean, it's not like any of the other shitload of people in the vid are getting anything like what he's getting. Stormgale posted:I'd argue (as do a lot of people) that this sort of discussion is interesting contrasting his whole "Belive people when they say theirs smoke" line of discussion. But there isn't enough that he's done here to justify this. At all. From the backlash against him you'd think he'd be out there actively disbelieving those people when he's basically said nothing at all - he promoted his appearance in the video and made a statement about Twitter that 999 other times out of 1000, people would basically nod in agreement to. Vague connections that really aren't all that substantial are being made and from there people are just absolutely making GBS threads on him. People cancelling patronage, insinuating he's only an ally because he wants to gently caress Natalie, throwing all kinds of crap. It is utterly not proportionate, and I don't see how anyone can justify it as such. If he'd even said a word in defense of the video, perhaps it could be a bit more justifiable. As it stands this is ridiculous. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Oct 20, 2019 |
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Oct 20, 2019 00:27
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Sometimes people are right, but their chosen approach is to be a human sandblaster and erode the sanity of everyone in front of them.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:38
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So...going through Ollie's replies I saw like one person boosting the "he just wants to gently caress her" thing, and it was literally one person retweeting their own tweet, and one person telling people to cancel Patreon. The rest was mostly just low key disappointment and asking if Ollie's really planning on doubling down or if this is some weird comedy of errors. That seems normal and in line with what "public" figures would hear if they seemingly did something stupid  . Also, he could have just not made that post in the middle of obvious Twitter drama that I'd bet a lot that he already knows about.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:41
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FoldableHuman posted:Sometimes people are right, but their chosen approach is to be a human sandblaster and erode the sanity of everyone in front of them. What approach works? Parasocial relationships are hell, yes - but if people are feeling betrayed and hurt, what recourse or means of reconcilliation might exist? poo poo sucks all round but I can't accept that misery is inevitable.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:43
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:So...going through Ollie's replies I saw like one person boosting the "he just wants to gently caress her" thing and one person telling people to cancel Patreon. The rest was mostly just low key disappointment and asking if Ollie's really planning on doubling down. If it was a gently caress up, he could have said so. Well, those were the cherries on top. It's still a flooding of the mentions no matter what. And that's just what's in the replies.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:43
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I mean, he could have just not tweeted if he didn't want people to talk to him about it. What do you think that tweet means? I'm honestly asking, because it seems blindingly obvious to be a blanket dismissal of Natalie's critics. And if it's not then it's an amazing gently caress up.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:46
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:I mean, he could have just not tweeted if he didn't want people to talk to him about it. Well unless you know about Contra and have seen the video in question or know about the controversy, that tweet's gonna mean literally nothing. I mean, yeah - sure. It's likely in reference to the hellfire in his mentions. What I'd ask you is if you think the response to such a general tweet is warranted.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:50
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this entire debacle makes me wish I wasnt NB tbh lmao
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Oct 20, 2019 00:51
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the conclusion is that youtubers are class traitors AYAB
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Oct 20, 2019 00:52
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watho posted:the conclusion is that youtubers are class traitors but... i made a youtube video once...
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Oct 20, 2019 00:54
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