Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Babylon 5: Reboot and Zooty

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

TraderStav posted:

Was that in the show by mid season 3 or in later or other content? I don't remember that amount of specificity.

Most of the details are in In the Beginning. I don't recall to what extent anything was known before that, just that we knew he destroyed Black Star in a way the Minbari still have some resentment over right away in "Points of Departure". Upon doing some digging, the trap was discussed in "There All the Honor Lies" but I don't think we hear about Lexington specifically until ITB.

Man, time for me to do a rewatch.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 21:38

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:56

Tsaedje: May 11, 2007; BRAWNY BUTTONS 4 LYFE

SlothfulCobra posted:

Why the Vorlons thought it was easier to steal from the future rather than just build their own is anyone's guess.

B4 was a way to rules lawyer their way out of directly interfering in the little competition they have going

also it amuses me greatly that it must be a bit of a Bill and Ted moment of 'remember for later we need to send a station back'

# ? Oct 20, 2019 21:48

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Tsaedje posted:

B4 was a way to rules lawyer their way out of directly interfering in the little competition they have going

also it amuses me greatly that it must be a bit of a Bill and Ted moment of 'remember for later we need to send a station back'

I was always curious how much warning the Vorlons and their agents had that Babylon 4 was the station to look out for, and when and where it would be constructed. We know the Shadows' minions were at least somewhat surprised to see it. Were there at least some Vorlons who looked up and went "Oh poo poo, THAT'S where it came from. Welp, time to get hijackin'."

# ? Oct 20, 2019 21:54

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Lemniscate Blue posted:

I was always curious how much warning the Vorlons and their agents had that Babylon 4 was the station to look out for, and when and where it would be constructed. We know the Shadows' minions were at least somewhat surprised to see it. Were there at least some Vorlons who looked up and went "Oh poo poo, THAT'S where it came from. Welp, time to get hijackin'."

I suspect Sinclair told them what happened and there was probably a lot of information in the computers and material left on B4 when it went back so even if it appeared with no context they�d probably figure it out.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 22:01

TraderStav: May 19, 2006; It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

It definitely takes some mystery out of the Vorlons seeming to be prophetic but instead just have the information a millennium in advance and have enough discipline and longevity to do something about it. I can't stop expressing how happy I am the their whole bit is logical and not left to some sort of special prescience.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 22:05

Narsham: Jun 5, 2008

SlothfulCobra posted:

I don't think we ever see any other sizeable space stations throughout the series. Humans, in their arrogance and desperation made something weird and unique (5 times) that has to have a lot of unique applications. It's a big ol' gun platform that can carry way more fighters and personnel than anything else, and can even dock with capital ships, in addition to being a base of operations that doesn't necessarily need to stay anchored to any one spot, although I don't think they ever go into how mobile B5 can be if it needs to be.

Why the Vorlons thought it was easier to steal from the future rather than just build their own is anyone's guess.

Also worth asking is what happened to B4 in the past so it's not around anymore, and why nobody ever notes the similarity between the station long, long ago and modern human technology. I mean it's not as unique as the shadows' big black ships with all the tendrils, but you'd think somebody would have notes to compare.

B4 was never quite completed and given what happened to the first three stations security had to be pretty tight. Security on board was minimal, but they likely had ships and fighters on wide patrol. Ancient-level stealth technology was presumably required to get close. So nobody besides the humans would have known what B4 actually looked like.

On plot points never appearing again:

Timby posted:

Kosh doing a data dump of Talia's mind?

Mentioned again in Divided Loyalties, though obviously never used because the actress left the show. It is implied but never confirmed that they use the recording to keep Psi Corps off their backs.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 22:10

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Lemniscate Blue posted:

Most of the details are in In the Beginning. I don't recall to what extent anything was known before that, just that we knew he destroyed Black Star in a way the Minbari still have some resentment over right away in "Points of Departure". Upon doing some digging, the trap was discussed in "There All the Honor Lies" but I don't think we hear about Lexington specifically until ITB.

Man, time for me to do a rewatch.

The how isn't explained until S4, but it's not a spoiler. Sheridan mined an asteroid field and lured the Black Star into it. Earthforce vessels circa 2247 might not have been able to lock onto a Minbari warship, but you don't need to lock on with atomic mines - you just need to get the enemy close enough to be hurt and unable to jump away.

Of course the Warrior Caste considered this to be deeply dishonourable, but gently caress those guys.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 22:15

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

He also totally describes it all towards the beginning of season 2.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 22:17

Milkfred E. Moore: Aug 27, 2006; 'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

The way he describes it in Season 2 doesn't quite match up with In The Beginning (not in the Sol System, only the loss of the Black Star and not multiple other ships, no distress call mentioned).

# ? Oct 20, 2019 22:32

Soylent Pudding: Jun 22, 2007; We've got people!

Jedit posted:

Of course the Warrior Caste considered this to be deeply dishonourable, but gently caress those guys.

Not an empty quote. Always hated their arrogance in a way I never did the Klingons.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 23:11

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Soylent Pudding posted:

Not an empty quote. Always hated their arrogance in a way I never did the Klingons.

There's a reason the Minbari get called "Space Elves" and it's not complimentary.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 23:14

RedSnapper: Nov 22, 2016

Jedit posted:

The how isn't explained until S4, but it's not a spoiler. Sheridan mined an asteroid field and lured the Black Star into it. Earthforce vessels circa 2247 might not have been able to lock onto a Minbari warship, but you don't need to lock on with atomic mines - you just need to get the enemy close enough to be hurt and unable to jump away.

Of course the Warrior Caste considered this to be deeply dishonourable, but gently caress those guys.

The Warrior Caste are pretty much bullies getting all mad that the nerd had the audacity to fight back.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 23:21

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

RedSnapper posted:

The Warrior Caste are pretty much bullies getting all mad that the nerd had the audacity to fight back.

drat near every warrior honor code in history has been at its core a way for the powerful to maintain their power - all the things considered "dishonorable" are strategies by which the less powerful can defeat the more powerful.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 23:40

raverrn: Apr 5, 2005; Unidentified spacecraft inbound from delta line.

All Silpheed squadrons scramble now!

Not to mention the Black Star was lured in with a distress signal. Hard to feel sorry for them trying to club a baby seal.

# ? Oct 20, 2019 23:41

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

One sci-fi trope that always bugs me is that Earthlings are called humans and every other species is some form of their name for their home planet.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 00:09

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

TK-42-1 posted:

One sci-fi trope that always bugs me is that Earthlings are called humans and every other species is some form of their name for their home planet.

uhhhhh..... say that word again, slowly.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 00:13

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

Doctor Zero posted:

uhhhhh..... say that word again, slowly.

Thats why I used it. If you're having trouble understanding my point, Minbari aren't called something other than Minbari. It's just Minbari even between themselves. Klingons are all Klingons et al.

TK-42-1 fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Oct 21, 2019

# ? Oct 21, 2019 00:15

TraderStav: May 19, 2006; It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

It's because TV viewers are stupid and would never remember which unrelated name matches the actual race.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 00:23

Data Graham: Dec 28, 2009; 📈📊🍪😋

TK-42-1 posted:

Thats why I used it. If you're having trouble understanding my point, Minbari aren't called something other than Minbari. It's just Minbari even between themselves. Klingons are all Klingons et al.

From the planet Kling of course

# ? Oct 21, 2019 00:24

TraderStav: May 19, 2006; It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

Wookies are from Kashyyyk
Ewoks are from Endor

# ? Oct 21, 2019 00:33

Doctor Zero: Sep 21, 2002; Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

TK-42-1 posted:

Thats why I used it. If you're having trouble understanding my point, Minbari aren't called something other than Minbari. It's just Minbari even between themselves. Klingons are all Klingons et al.

Oh I see. It�s just what sounds better. Earther, Terran, earthling.

Would Minbarling sound good? Not really. Nor would Klingling.

But there are Romulans, Tellerites, Andorians, etc.

Babylon 5 tends to just use the planet name as the race which sounds fine mostly. Centauri, Narn, Drazi, Vorlons. I think the other races like Brakiri (and who knows about the Pak�ma�ra) aren�t like this.

Honestly it�s just what sounds better.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 00:50

Vavrek: Mar 2, 2013; I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

TK-42-1 posted:

Thats why I used it. If you're having trouble understanding my point, Minbari aren't called something other than Minbari. It's just Minbari even between themselves. Klingons are all Klingons et al.

You're watching the show in English, not Minbari. In Minbari, Minbari are called something else.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 01:03

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Doctor Zero posted:

Oh I see. It�s just what sounds better. Earther, Terran, earthling.

Would Minbarling sound good? Not really. Nor would Klingling.

But there are Romulans, Tellerites, Andorians, etc.

Babylon 5 tends to just use the planet name as the race which sounds fine mostly. Centauri, Narn, Drazi, Vorlons. I think the other races like Brakiri (and who knows about the Pak�ma�ra) aren�t like this.

Honestly it�s just what sounds better.

The Drazi homeworld is called Zhabar. The Vorlon homeworld has no known name.

Out of curiosity, I just took a look to see how many of the League take their racial name from their place of origin and it's less than half - oddly including the two you thought weren't. Balosians, Brakiri, Grome, Pak'ma'ra and Vree are named for their homeworlds, and the Abbai for their home system.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 01:08

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

RedSnapper posted:

The Warrior Caste are pretty much bullies getting all mad that the nerd had the audacity to fight back.

The cool warrior societies are the ones that enjoy the fight rather than wanting to risk nothing. Of course, then you end up with dumb things like the Pirates of Penzance who refuse to fight anyone weaker than them and so almost always lose.

Of course, most of the warrior societies like that I can think of, it's usually just a few guys who actually stick to those principles and most of the people in the background just like being able to beat on people without risk and then take stuff with impunity, and then just do the warrior race philosophy on holidays to justify what they do the rest of the time.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 02:09

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

TK-42-1 posted:

Thats why I used it. If you're having trouble understanding my point, Minbari aren't called something other than Minbari. It's just Minbari even between themselves. Klingons are all Klingons et al.

The root of "Human" is the latin word humus, meaning "earth".

# ? Oct 21, 2019 02:42

TK-42-1: Oct 30, 2013; looks like we have a bad transmitter

CainFortea posted:

The root of "Human" is the latin word humus, meaning "earth".

Well there you go. I didn�t know that but it makes sense.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 03:37

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

TK-42-1 posted:

One sci-fi trope that always bugs me is that Earthlings are called humans and every other species is some form of their name for their home planet.

then when someone uses the word "terran" everyone gets all "lol look at this old-timey nerdlinger here"

# ? Oct 21, 2019 04:24

Delthalaz: Mar 5, 2003; Slippery Tilde

Our planet means dirt. Hey guys I�m from Dirt.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 06:40

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

CainFortea posted:

The root of "Human" is the latin word humus, meaning "earth".

lol

# ? Oct 21, 2019 07:28

1000 Brown M and Ms: Oct 22, 2008; F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

TraderStav posted:

Ewoks are from Endor

No they're not. Endor is a gas giant. Ewoks are from the forest moon of Endor.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 09:13

Dirty: Apr 8, 2003; Ceci n'est pas un fabricant de pates

1000 Brown M and Ms posted:

No they're not. Endor is a gas giant. Ewoks are from the forest moon of Endor.

"A small Rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor."

:raise:

# ? Oct 21, 2019 10:30

Neddy Seagoon: Oct 12, 2012; "Hi Everybody!"

Vavrek posted:

You're watching the show in English, not Minbari. In Minbari, Minbari are called something else.

Welcome to glorious Nippon :hai:

# ? Oct 21, 2019 10:39

Small Strange Bird: Sep 22, 2006; Merci, chaton!

The forest moon of Endor, or the forest moon of Endor?

# ? Oct 21, 2019 13:14

TraderStav: May 19, 2006; It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

Payndz posted:

The forest moon of Endor, or the forest moon of Endor?

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Endor

Endor (also known as the Forest Moon of Endor or the Sanctuary Moon) was a small forested moon that orbited the Outer Rim planet of the same name and was the homeworld of the sentient Dulok, Ewok, and Yuzzum species, as well as the semi-sentient Gorax and Wistie races.

# ? Oct 21, 2019 13:46

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

TraderStav posted:

Wookies are from Kashyyyk
Ewoks are from Endor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyIZ9YvZOmo

# ? Oct 21, 2019 18:37

TraderStav: May 19, 2006; It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

Midjack posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyIZ9YvZOmo

Just awesome! 1:38 in and Kosh dies. I'm going to stop there because clearly this way be spoilers.

I did enjoy watch Sheridan almost kiss Delenn one more time

# ? Oct 21, 2019 20:38

Polaron: Oct 13, 2010; The Oncoming Storm

Klingons are from Q'onoS.

# ? Oct 22, 2019 12:37

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Polaron posted:

Klingons are from Q'onoS.

Qo'nos. But originally it was called "Kling" until they realised that sounded really silly.

# ? Oct 22, 2019 13:05

TraderStav: May 19, 2006; It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

Watched Grey 17, wasn't THAT bad but you definitely could have done without the B Plot entirely. I'd give it a C+/B-

# ? Oct 22, 2019 13:13

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:56

Winifred Madgers: Feb 12, 2002

I'll forgive you that remark because you don't get Neroon yet.

# ? Oct 22, 2019 13:24

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