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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Instead you will let the other person win the game they couldn't with the resources available to them either. In the specific example of “my opponent is on Nexus with no Agent of Treachery or Teferi in his deck and has actually no way to win until I draw my 61st card and lose but has essentially locked me out of game actions until that happens” what do you get by playing this out? Are you better at magic now? Is that little bubble pushing into Diamond 2 giving you a deep insight into the nature of competitive play? Or are you just showing the neck beard on the other end of the monitor who the real boss is? Is this win worth such a disproportionate amount of your time?
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Nov 7, 2019 16:04
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Bust Rodd posted:In the specific example of “my opponent is on Nexus with no Agent of Treachery or Teferi in his deck and has actually no way to win until I draw my 61st card and lose but has essentially locked me out of game actions until that happens” what do you get by playing this out? Are you better at magic now? Is that little bubble pushing into Diamond 2 giving you a deep insight into the nature of competitive play? Or are you just showing the neck beard on the other end of the monitor who the real boss is? Is this win worth such a disproportionate amount of your time? Well then why do you play games at all? When you hit 19 life and your opponent is at 20, why aren't you smash conceding? If wins don't mean anything, just concede every match The clock is just as much of a resource as life points and cards in library.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:06
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Y'all ever feel like this thread is just the same three arguments over and over
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Nov 7, 2019 16:07
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Is this take of "don't use the clock to your advantage" not new? Because it's real dumb and I've never heard it before
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Nov 7, 2019 16:08
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Makes you wonder why people don't play Magic.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:08
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zoux posted:Y'all ever feel like Yes. Anyway, I don't play BO3 for a few reasons but one of them is that I don't feel like I have any remotely competitive deck. Are there any good, starter BO3, budget friendly ones? I'd say my best land base is dimir if that helps.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:09
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:Well then why do you play games at all? When you hit 19 life and your opponent is at 20, why aren't you smash conceding? If wins don't mean anything, just concede every match LoL ok you’ve effectively moved the goalposts from “why can’t I pedantically insist on dragging out this meaningless game to the full 50 minutes” to “why even play games? To enjoy them?!” so let’s just agree to disagree. You also just ignored all my questions but since I arbitrarily declared myself the winner who cares.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:11
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ChiTownEddie posted:Yes. Oh no there were four arguments before we stopped fighting about whether bo1 or bo3 was better e: this one has no mythics in it but a lot of rares. But there isn't a meta deck that doesn't use a bunch of rares I don't think. zoux fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 16:15
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Bust Rodd posted:In the specific example of “my opponent is on Nexus with no Agent of Treachery or Teferi in his deck and has actually no way to win until I draw my 61st card and lose but has essentially locked me out of game actions until that happens” what do you get by playing this out? Are you better at magic now? Is that little bubble pushing into Diamond 2 giving you a deep insight into the nature of competitive play? Or are you just showing the neck beard on the other end of the monitor who the real boss is? Is this win worth such a disproportionate amount of your time? in that specific example what happened when enough people played it out is that nexus got banned in Bo1 on arena
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Nov 7, 2019 16:15
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Homers BBBq posted:I think his point is that a lot of people have experienced long streaks of going second to the point where it feels like there are other forces at work and it isn't a coin flip. Could just be peoples' perceptions or selective memory but you would have a better chance of winning the lottery than going second as many times in a row as some people have claimed. It doesn't bother me anymore now that I play mostly bo3 though so that would be my advice to people. I have a better chance of winning the lottery than getting any specific sequence of 26 coinflips. But I'm still guaranteed to get one.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:15
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Bust Rodd posted:In the specific example of “my opponent is on Nexus with no Agent of Treachery or Teferi in his deck and has actually no way to win until I draw my 61st card and lose but has essentially locked me out of game actions until that happens” what do you get by playing this out? Are you better at magic now? Is that little bubble pushing into Diamond 2 giving you a deep insight into the nature of competitive play? Or are you just showing the neck beard on the other end of the monitor who the real boss is? Is this win worth such a disproportionate amount of your time? You do realise that casting Nexus every turn will never actually mill your opponent out, right? And that it's not even a real "lock" unless you have some other card in your deck that can take a proactive step towards winning the game?
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Nov 7, 2019 16:17
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Bust Rodd posted:what do you get by playing this out? The win? quote:Are you better at magic now? quote:Is that little bubble pushing into Diamond 2 giving you a deep insight into the nature of competitive play? quote:Or are you just showing the neck beard on the other end of the monitor who the real boss is?  quote:Is this win worth such a disproportionate amount of your time? And we are back to "why try to win at all?" Tell me, what is your personal time limit you give an opposing deck before you smash concede? If they are playing a Manse deck but just aren't drawing Manses, at what point do you say "well, they are just gonna draw it anyway, and they made it this far, better move on?" flatluigi posted:in that specific example what happened when enough people played it out is that nexus got banned in Bo1 on arena Yeah, he's acting like this is a dumb hypothetical, when people were actually doing this. Pre time limit I could see the point of just conceding those games, but when they added the clock, you're a fool if you let them just harvest wins without using the clock Ate My Balls Redux fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 16:18
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one of the small things you can do to improve in this game is making your opponent 'have it' -- make them play it out, make them do the attacks, make them carry out the line, because sometimes you see a line they don't and you end up winning anyway conceding when your loss is "obvious" will never make you win more but it will definitely make you lose more often than getting them to play it out (even if it's only by a light percentage)
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Nov 7, 2019 16:25
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I concede when I can’t play my cards anymore. I’m maining Golgari Stories right now. I will play 1/1’s off the top of my deck for 15 turns if I have to grind the game out, because I’m still casting spells and making choices. I also think “conceding doesn’t make you better so what’s the point?” completely misses the “getting to play a new game” point which is like the biggest and most important point. I would not rather continue to play a game in which I have nothing left to learn and potentially nothing to gain that I couldn’t just get by conceding and playing and winning a new game. If you’re saying “I’d rather win every game of Magic that I play than simply play as many good games of Magic as I can” then we have fundamentally different approaches to the game, or fun, or both. flatluigi posted:one of the small things you can do to improve in this game is making your opponent 'have it' -- make them play it out, make them do the attacks, make them carry out the line, because sometimes you see a line they don't and you end up winning anyway So you do this every single time you play?
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Nov 7, 2019 16:27
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From my limited knowledge of hanging out in gold for a month. BO1 aggro or janky decks that try and surprise you such as mill. Bo3 Oko decks or other meta decks such as Esper dance or Temur rec. Play jank in BO1 and you will have more fun 
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Nov 7, 2019 16:27
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Bust Rodd posted:If you’re saying “I’d rather win every game of Magic that I play than simply play as many good games of Magic as I can” then we have fundamentally different approaches to the game, or fun, or both. This is actually fair I think, because we have different opinions on what makes a game 'good'. Some people think it's winning according to how their deck is meant to be played, others feel its winning in making your opponent beat themselves somehow. The problem people talk about when it comes to 'conceding too easily' is the people who snap concede when you counter their first bomb, or you drop a bomb of your own, or sweep their board, or basically interact with them for the first time to their disadvantage. That's bad for everyone.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:32
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Wafflecopper posted:I don't see how this solves the go-first advantage. Any match that goes to three games is gonna have somebody going first twice Here is a little secret about sideboarding. You can sideboard your deck in a way that makes it better to go second to reduce that advantage.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:33
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Bust Rodd posted:I concede when I can’t play my cards anymore. I’m maining Golgari Stories right now. I will play 1/1’s off the top of my deck for 15 turns if I have to grind the game out, because I’m still casting spells and making choices. what exactly is this situation where you're conceding instead of playing it out because topdecking 1/1s for 15 turns apparently isn't it (and yes, I make a point of making my opponents play their win out and if I didn't I wouldn't be giving that advice lmao)
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Nov 7, 2019 16:36
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Literally the first sentence of the post you quoted. If my opponent is looping their Nexus of Fate multiple times per turn such that I can no longer take a game action, cast a spell or attack, then as far as I am concerned the game is over. If the clock says that I will win if I sit there and let them do that for another 7 minutes, I don’t think forcing them to do that is worth continuing to “play” when I could just go “eh, they got me” and play another game. Over the course of this conversation I’ve probably made that clear like at least 3-4 times, but my point keeps being extrapolated to mean “concede constantly, at all times, if you’re ever a little behind” which is extremely not what I am saying.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:41
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People should concede whenever they want. It's just a game and if you concede early your opponent gets a win, so everyone's happy. If you aren't enjoying grinding out a frustrating game, even if you still might win, feel free to scoop and go on to the next game. If you are enjoying it, great. Obviously if you're a pro you might have to put up with more bullshit, but if you're not who cares.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:46
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Bust Rodd posted:Literally the first sentence of the post you quoted. If my opponent is looping their Nexus of Fate multiple times per turn such that I can no longer take a game action, cast a spell or attack, then as far as I am concerned the game is over. If the clock says that I will win if I sit there and let them do that for another 7 minutes, I don’t think forcing them to do that is worth continuing to “play” when I could just go “eh, they got me” and play another game. In a paper tournament, if your opponent is looping Nexus over and over, but has no way to actually kill you, you win. Just thought that you might find that interesting.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:48
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if your point is "I would concede in the no-longer-relevant situation of someone looping nexus forever without a win condition in their deck and no other situation" you really shouldn't continue to start fights with people talking about other situations edit: and yeah this vvv Jabor posted:In a paper tournament, if your opponent is looping Nexus over and over, but has no way to actually kill you, you win.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:48
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zoux posted:Oh no there were four arguments before we stopped fighting about whether bo1 or bo3 was better I don't think there's any argument anymore for Bo1, but I was trying some new aggro decks and honestly unless you have some green in there you're better off in Bo1 because your sideboard will almost always be worse than your opponent. I haven't played Bo1 since forever but I was surprised by how lovely it still feels to go 2nd for 7 times in a row when you're the aggressor. Variance is variance but I imagine there's still a ton of players avoiding Bo3 for lack of time/cards/sideboard. Hell, those are probably new players too, which sucks even more. Considering MTGA already has a functional starting hand land algorithm it's a bit baffling that they're not using pseudo-rng to determine who goes first in single matches. It may be a simple qol improvement and not a solution but still, nothing to scoff at.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:50
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Bust Rodd posted:Literally the first sentence of the post you quoted. If my opponent is looping their Nexus of Fate multiple times per turn such that I can no longer take a game action, cast a spell or attack, then as far as I am concerned the game is over. If the clock says that I will win if I sit there and let them do that for another 7 minutes, I don’t think forcing them to do that is worth continuing to “play” when I could just go “eh, they got me” and play another game. Sounds like a personal opinion then, but they haven't "got you" at that point by definition, because if you wait that 7 minutes, you win the game! If winning isn't valuable to you, that's another point entirely and the biggest reason why people are currently talking past each other in the thread.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:50
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Hold on, perhapes we are being "roped" in this very thread by having our time wasted by that guy! But I'll never concede!
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Nov 7, 2019 16:51
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zoux posted:Hold on, perhapes we are being "roped" in this very thread by having our time wasted by that guy! But I'll never concede! I'm trading sanity for card advantage
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Nov 7, 2019 16:55
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Playing any game to the end is fine as long as you don’t intentionally rope someone
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Nov 7, 2019 16:56
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Arcing ropes of Floral Spuzzem
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Nov 7, 2019 16:59
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flatluigi posted:if your point is "I would concede in the no-longer-relevant situation of someone looping nexus forever without a win condition in their deck and no other situation" you really shouldn't continue to start fights with people. srulz posted:Why would you ever concede when you have timers in BO3? I've won multiple "lost" matches by timing my opp out. Mostly Nexus, but also a few random Espers with Teferi tuck wincon. This is the post that started the entire conversation, it was only two pages ago, and it is specifically addressing the Nexus thing. Please don’t try to have a conversation with people in text if you can’t read, lol The only paper decks playing Nexus right now have creatures in them, so that’s not an issue. The only people playing creatureless forever Nexus were last year’s standard players and I hope Valkyrie drop them in active volcanoes. zoux posted:Hold on, perhapes we are being "roped" in this very thread by having our time wasted by that guy! But I'll never concede! A Tru-Gamer
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Nov 7, 2019 17:01
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Ahahaha what the gently caress omniscience draft?! It's Keyforge but without the pace-limiting factors of houses and keys. How am I going to get my face melted in this ridiculous format?
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Nov 7, 2019 17:06
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In other news, at the start of this week I caved and finally crafted Sultai Food to climb faster. First time playing an Oko deck. Just to give anyone a frame of reference, I barely had a combined 57% wr with the decks I used last season (monored, gruul, rakdos sacrifice and gb adventures) and I'm at 71% with this complete bullshit. The thing is that number could be some points higher because I keep forgetting to double dip with Nissa and I still gently caress some of the interactions up - like buffing an enemy creature with counters by elking it - when I'm not paying attention. I don't think I'm piloting the deck well at all. Also the meta is supposedly "targeting Oko" but I'm not sure it's even possible. I swear every time I make a 3/3 out of my rear end it feels weird that it's a +1 and not a -1. On one hand, the deck is fun to play and requires some solid decision making when you start slow, which isn't uncommon. On the other I keep winning legit close games without Oko and sometimes without Nissa, because Goose, Wolf, Veil and Krasis are just that strong, which makes me a bit pessimistic about this standard. I don't think I've ever seen a deck this powerful in any other card game. Maybe Patron decks in HS, but they were harder to pilot and owed their success to a single card. Kawabata fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 17:22
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The meta can target Oko but the fact is that deck can hit T2 Oko over half the time and the "counter" decks can't hit that same consistency in finding ways to kill or counter him.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:26
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When do mythic okotational decklists come out?
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Nov 7, 2019 17:27
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thespaceinvader posted:Ahahaha what the gently caress omniscience draft?! Draft literally anything that draws more cards
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Nov 7, 2019 17:28
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ptroll posted:The meta can target Oko but the fact is that deck can hit T2 Oko over half the time and the "counter" decks can't hit that same consistency in finding ways to kill or counter him. Pretty much. But what really surprised me is how powerful the deck still is even when you don't draw it. Turn 3 Nissa or a couple of consecutive well placed Wolves are back breaking for almost every deck. Even an early Vraska leads to a win most of the times.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:33
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I personally still think regular Simic Food is better than Sultai Food, but yeah playing an Oko deck is a lot of fun. I genuinely wish everything else were as strong as Oko, instead of the entire format feeling stuck in the mud compared to my deer Elk Boi
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Nov 7, 2019 17:49
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I look forward to every Thursday being "whine about Brawl not being a permanent mode" day
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Nov 7, 2019 18:09
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zoux posted:I look forward to every Thursday being "whine about Brawl not being a permanent mode" day There's a very easy solution they could and should implement to prevent this
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Nov 7, 2019 18:16
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Paul Zuvella posted:Here is a little secret about sideboarding. You can sideboard your deck in a way that makes it better to go second to reduce that advantage. You're gonna blow their minds when you say sometimes you sideboard in a land.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:17
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:There's a very easy solution they could and should implement to prevent this My opinion is that they will never make any singleton format permanent, unless they start hemorrhaging users some years hence
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Nov 7, 2019 18:33
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