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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:To revise, uh, Taringail was a dumbass for even thinking it could've worked. Morgase didn't actually give birth to Galad. Galad is the son of Tigraine and Taringail, who then stuck around when Taringail remarried Morgase. And now he's a double uncle to Elayne and Rand's kids. Another thing along those lines is how Taringail is Moiraine's brother, making her Elayne/Gawyn/Galad's aunt. Also Moiraine bonded and then married the guy who killed her brother. It's weird how the books never really bother to address either of those things - I have to imagine that the show will go into more detail.
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Nov 10, 2019 09:21
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From https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2015/10/a-history-of-epic-fantasy-part-17.html He took out major advertisements, sought blurbs from top authors (Orson Scott Card, Piers Anthony and Anne McCaffrey, among others, obliged) 
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Nov 10, 2019 10:39
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ChubbyChecker posted:From https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2015/10/a-history-of-epic-fantasy-part-17.html Man that brought me back. Kinda sad too because i remember hanging out on dragonmount and wotmania when news came out about his illness and later death.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:01
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Im up to the Sanderson books in my reread. Its really sad how easy it is to tell which sections are by which author because Sanderson keeps making subjunctive mood errors and using anachronistic phrases like "tavern punk". I mean, he did a. . . .fine . . . job. It's. . . fine. But it's not the same.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:11
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Yeah but he can write dialogue that does not span multiple pages of unbroken paragraphs.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:29
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Data Graham posted:Yeah but he can write dialogue that does not span multiple pages of unbroken paragraphs. I was noticing that through an audiobook re-read, a lot of times someone enters a conversation and just blasts for like 30 seconds of speech before even introducing themselves.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:31
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i for one look forward to like 45 seconds of inner machinations overdubbed in the time between a question being asked and answered
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Nov 11, 2019 01:40
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Ponsonby Britt posted:Morgase didn't actually give birth to Galad. Galad is the son of Tigraine and Taringail, who then stuck around when Taringail remarried Morgase. And now he's a double uncle to Elayne and Rand's kids. Another thing along those lines is how Taringail is Moiraine's brother, making her Elayne/Gawyn/Galad's aunt. Also Moiraine bonded and then married the guy who killed her brother. It's weird how the books never really bother to address either of those things - I have to imagine that the show will go into more detail. It is a huge contrast to other fantasy novels though because this poo poo would be absolute fodder for theorycrafting between books. Jordan treated it mostly like an Easter Egg. It almost seems a lot of the relationships and extended family exist solely to have thrown off Elaida so that she was looking at the wrong part of the Andoran royal bloodline. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Im up to the Sanderson books in my reread. Its really sad how easy it is to tell which sections are by which author because Sanderson keeps making subjunctive mood errors and using anachronistic phrases like "tavern punk". I was briefly into Sanderson when he was first announced as the guy to finish the books and I wanted to get a taste for his style and abilities. I've read two of the Stormlight books and the original Mystborn and I don't think I'll ever read anything else he's done. Apparently the Elantris sequel is good?
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Nov 11, 2019 02:01
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Yeah I don’t think you can describe his prose writing as anything more than competent. But I suppose there needed to be a balancing act. Someone more prominent would not have taken time out from their own work to do the job, or if they had it would have been more distracting.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:05
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Sanderson's prose is plain, but he did a solid job and was the best you could hope for to finish it out. The Gathering Storm is actually one of the best books in the series.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:14
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I enjoyed reading all three of the Sanderson books, but I wouldn't put any of them above the Jordan written prose. And yes, I'm including Crossroads of Twilight in that statement.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:31
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The Lord Bude posted:Yeah I don’t think you can describe his prose writing as anything more than competent. But I suppose there needed to be a balancing act. Someone more prominent would not have taken time out from their own work to do the job, or if they had it would have been more distracting. It's this more than anything. Sanderson for all his faults is a workhorse who could write 50,000 words napping.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:39
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Those are good points and I would have never thought that had you not said it.
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Nov 11, 2019 03:58
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Yeah, Sanderson was probably the best possible choice onxe Jordan had passed. Still, sadness, though. I think Jordan would have finished the series as quickly if he'd lived. Book 11 showed he was over his hump, and the parts of the final books that were Jordan-written are excellent.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:03
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Yeah I think the last book he wrote was one of the absolute best ones. I also loved path of daggers on account of the attack on Seanchan. drat. Might be time to reread the series.
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Nov 11, 2019 09:11
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The Path of Daggers is also kinda... backward. The two big events (bowl, seanchanmania 2000) happen early on and the ending is relatively anticlimactic. I liked that Elayne trying to untie the weave led directly to the attack on the Tower. I never picked up on that before.
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Nov 11, 2019 09:37
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, Sanderson was probably the best possible choice onxe Jordan had passed. Still, sadness, though. I think that if he was alive and well, he'd be still be procrastinating like GRRM. He only started to finish the series when he heard that he was dying. Sanderson on the other hand is like a bot, his prose is boring and pedestrian, but he can produce text on command.
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Nov 11, 2019 12:23
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ChubbyChecker posted:I think that if he was alive and well, he'd be still be procrastinating like GRRM. He only started to finish the series when he heard that he was dying. Sanderson on the other hand is like a bot, his prose is boring and pedestrian, but he can produce text on command. I don't know that that's true. He had been releasing books fairly regularly, though he did slow down in the latter half of the series from the one book a year he was managing in the 90s (I don't have any loving idea how that's possible). The big difference between him and GRRM is that he was regularly releasing books with the one weird outlier being New Spring and even that only really lengthened the delay between Crossroads of Twilight and Knife of Dreams to 2 years and 10 months. I think the real issue was that he just needed a breather to gather himself and his thoughts before wrapping the series up and New Spring let him do that. He didn't go public with his diagnosis until 2006, about 6 months after Knife of Dreams was published. It seems very unlikely that he knew he was sick, or at least how sick, before work on Knife of Dreams started considering he only started chemo in April of 2006 and if he knew while he was working on Knife of Dreams, he would have started treatments immediately, book or no book. Plus, just because Knife of Dreams was published in October 2005 doesn't mean it was finished in mid 2005. There's a decent lead time before submission of a text and publication. In other words, he had probably started work on it somewhere in late 2003 and spent most of 2004 working on it before submitting it in either very late 2004 or early to mid 2005. There's definitely an urgency in Knife of Dreams to wrap things up, but I think Jordan just had finally gotten all of his pieces into place and the finish line was finally in sight.
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Nov 11, 2019 13:59
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He was releasing one book a year early on because he'd already written the first 3 books by the time the first one hit shelves. The slowdown was mostly the result of him catching up to the release schedule. After Lord of Chaos there was a fairly consistent window between books. The longest was around two and half years which frankly isn't unreasonable for a book of the size and scope of WoT.
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Nov 11, 2019 14:34
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The Lord Bude posted:He was releasing one book a year early on because he'd already written the first 3 books by the time the first one hit shelves. The slowdown was mostly the result of him catching up to the release schedule. After Lord of Chaos there was a fairly consistent window between books. The longest was around two and half years which frankly isn't unreasonable for a book of the size and scope of WoT. It's interesting that the major drop of quality also happened after LoC. He had probably by then mostly ran out of the original material he had thought up in the 70s and 80s, but didn't want to finish his series yet.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:16
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Atlas Hugged posted:I've read two of the Stormlight books and the original Mystborn and I don't think I'll ever read anything else he's done. I managed to make it to the end of the original Mistborn and that was it. It was like chewing glass. I'm thinking Sanderson may well be the worst big-name fantasy author working. His WoT books are... better than not having a conclusion at all, just about. But they are thoroughly crippled by Sanderson's severe inability to handle the characters' emotional and psychological journeys. His prose is also poor, especially coming after Jordan's, but that's just the poo poo on top of the sundae.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:17
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ChubbyChecker posted:It's interesting that the major drop of quality also happened after LoC. He had probably by then mostly ran out of the original material he had thought up in the 70s and 80s, but didn't want to finish his series yet. I dispute the notion that there was ever a drop in quality (other than when Sanderson took over). There was a change in pacing, which might not have been to everyone's taste, but to be honest I usually start my rereads at book 4 because I prefer latter style WoT. KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I'm thinking Sanderson may well be the worst big-name fantasy author working. Not even remotely. I'm guessing you've never read Christopher Paolini's 'work' have you? For christ sake don't ever read Christopher Paolini
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Nov 11, 2019 15:50
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Did Paolini ever write anything after Eragon? Which, no, you're right, I haven't read, but I wouldn't go calling Paolini a "big name". He was infamous for a bit about a decade and a half ago and then he cratered out of our collective consciousnesses.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:56
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I'm thinking Sanderson may well be the worst big-name fantasy author working. I've only read his WoT books, but I think that that is quite a big claim. I don't remember him inserting any new stuff in the series, just continuing Jordan's lesbian spanking fetish. I mean there are people like Bakker and GRRM in the genre.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:05
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The Lord Bude posted:to be honest I usually start my rereads at book 4 That's hosed up.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:28
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Did Paolini ever write anything after Eragon? Which, no, you're right, I haven't read, but I wouldn't go calling Paolini a "big name". He was infamous for a bit about a decade and a half ago and then he cratered out of our collective consciousnesses. Yeah did he ever write Fragon
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Nov 11, 2019 16:42
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Atlas Hugged posted:I was briefly into Sanderson when he was first announced as the guy to finish the books and I wanted to get a taste for his style and abilities. I've read two of the Stormlight books and the original Mystborn and I don't think I'll ever read anything else he's done. Apparently the Elantris sequel is good?
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Nov 11, 2019 17:20
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ChubbyChecker posted:I've only read his WoT books, but I think that that is quite a big claim. I don't remember him inserting any new stuff in the series, just continuing Jordan's lesbian spanking fetish. I mean there are people like Bakker and GRRM in the genre. I don't think Sanderson understands what sex is
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Nov 11, 2019 17:26
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He’s Mormon so that’s probably true.
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Nov 11, 2019 17:26
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KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Did Paolini ever write anything after Eragon? Which, no, you're right, I haven't read, but I wouldn't go calling Paolini a "big name". He was infamous for a bit about a decade and a half ago and then he cratered out of our collective consciousnesses. Eragon was the first of a 4 book series which sold approximately 39 million books worldwide, which is nothing to sneeze at. (not to mention the film rights).The only think he's written since the conclusion of the series was a collection of short stories set in the same world, which he published at the end of last year. Apparently he has a scifi book in the works and he also plans to write another full sized Eragon book. His writing is godawful, and arguably plagiarism, but that level of success I feel does qualify him as a big name, at least for the purposes of authors who've been around for a similar time period. By way of comparison, Brandon Sanderson had sold a total of 7 million books world wide (across all his books, excluding WoT) as of 2015. (That's about 15 books, including a bunch of YA stuff) Source: http://awfulagent.com/brandon-sanderson-sells-over-7-million-copies edit: according to this: https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2018/12/the-sff-all-time-sales-list-revised.html Paolini is the 24th highest selling fantasy/Scifi author of all time. (for comparison, Gaiman is 23rd) He's sold maybe 40% of Robert Jordan's sales. Vastly more than most big deal literary names you care to mention. More than Savatore, Goodkind, Fiest, Orson Scott Card... The list goes on. The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 17:34
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ChubbyChecker posted:It's interesting that the major drop of quality also happened after LoC. He had probably by then mostly ran out of the original material he had thought up in the 70s and 80s, but didn't want to finish his series yet. I think it was more that he was rushing his work while the project simultaneously got more and more complicated. He wrote himself into some holes that he had to dig out of as a result. From what I recall most of the last few books had been plotted out, at least the high points. Jordan knew point A and point Z he just had a hard time figuring out the lmnop part I think.
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Nov 11, 2019 17:44
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The Lord Bude posted:Eragon was the first of a 4 book series which sold approximately 39 million books worldwide, which is nothing to sneeze at. (not to mention the film rights).The only think he's written since the conclusion of the series was a collection of short stories set in the same world, which he published at the end of last year. Apparently he has a scifi book in the works and he also plans to write another full sized Eragon book. haha drat
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Nov 11, 2019 18:07
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The Lord Bude posted:By way of comparison, Brandon Sanderson had sold a total of 7 million books world wide (across all his books, excluding WoT) as of 2015. (That's about 15 books, including a bunch of YA stuff) edit: the first link is from 2015
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Nov 11, 2019 18:30
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The Lord Bude posted:Eragon was the first of a 4 book series which sold approximately 39 million books worldwide  Jesus. I don't think I've even heard the name since about 2008~2010 or so.
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Nov 11, 2019 20:27
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Sanderson is better than Goodkind
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Nov 11, 2019 20:31
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My right nut is better than Goodkind.
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Nov 11, 2019 20:33
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bloom posted:My right nut is better than Goodkind. I have a copy of a book of Terry Goodkind short stories that was literally printed with "copyright 2001 Robert Jordan" on the copyright page. I don't think it was a mistake. I think someone at Tor was loving with Goodkind.
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Nov 11, 2019 21:06
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bloom posted:My right nut is better than Goodkind. Your left nut as well no doubt. Robin Hobb is way down the list as well, her writing is excellent and she's sold far less than Sanderson. Speaking of which, I'd love to see that on the screen. It's actually pretty offensive that basically plagiarised drivel written by a home schooled teenager and published by his parent's publishing company managed to become basically the top selling YA fantasy series after Harry Potter when actual super talented authors sell far less. Tamora Pierce writes outstanding fiction and has only a few million in sales (though hopefully the upcoming TV deal will fix that). The Lord Bude fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Nov 12, 2019 |
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Nov 12, 2019 03:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I have a copy of a book of Terry Goodkind short stories that was literally printed with "copyright 2001 Robert Jordan" on the copyright page. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, friend.
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Nov 12, 2019 03:59
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Eragon profited immensely from the Lord Of The Rings movies. It hit all the basic notes for a successor, and the licencing for the movie was probably dirt-cheap. With those two factors driving marketing, it was perfectly placed to cash in on both the teenage "well, I'm out of Tolkein" and the "Oh, is that the thing my grandkids are into right now?" markets.
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Nov 12, 2019 04:06
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