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Also WY wanted them for their Bioweapons division?
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Nov 13, 2019 18:18
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Vagabundo posted:I dunno, the fact that the Derelict had all the eggs all neatly organised in rows to begin with does suggest something's up. Yeah, ignoring covenant, I thought it was heavily implied they were bioweapons that got out of hand and wiped out the their creators, the space jockeys. Hence the warning beacon to stay the gently caress away.
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Nov 13, 2019 18:25
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Ornamental Dingbat posted:Also WY wanted them for their Bioweapons division? I always equated that like breeding a bunch of tigers to use as a weapon.
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Nov 13, 2019 18:26
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Linux Pirate posted:Yeah, ignoring covenant, I thought it was heavily implied they were bioweapons that got out of hand and wiped out the their creators, the space jockeys. Hence the warning beacon to stay the gently caress away. i dont know how much of this was a trope at the time of its release, but bioengineered weapons is definitely the trope now
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Nov 13, 2019 18:32
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GolfHole posted:i dont know how much of this was a trope at the time of its release, but bioengineered weapons is definitely the trope now I think it was mentioned in the novelization of the movie, or at least that the jockeys were their creators. But I've never read it so  It just seems like a creature with acid for blood that can survive in a vacuum, and is a perfect killing machine coming about through natural evolution is unlikely.
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Nov 13, 2019 18:35
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Iron Crowned posted:I always equated that like breeding a bunch of tigers to use as a weapon. Yeah but they are ultra-tigers. ou can just air drop a few eggs and potentially wipe out an entire rival powers colony, and have plausible deniability. "Wow sucks that the UPP settled a planet with space monsters, guess we'll nuke it clean claim those unobtanium deposits instead."
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Nov 13, 2019 18:36
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Linux Pirate posted:It just seems like a creature with acid for blood that can survive in a vacuum, and is a perfect killing machine coming about through natural evolution is unlikely. this is why pencils have erasers 
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Nov 13, 2019 18:37
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I always got the impression they were just really nasty intergalactic bedbugs travelers from various planets would inadvertently bring home with them. They don't seem to have any culture, they don't develop technology, they have no communication with any other sentient being. They are basically bugs like Hudson says. I think any weapons application they had wasn't based on taming aliens to fight for you but probably more about the stuff you could develop by studying their various acids and resins and whatever else, or clearing out the population of a desirable planet via an even worse version of handing out smallpox blankets to the natives. I am actively ignoring prometheus and covenant because they are bad and dumb additions to the universe, nothing has ever been improved by explaining exactly how the scary monster works and where it came from Linux Pirate posted:I think it was mentioned in the novelization of the movie, or at least that the jockeys were their creators. But I've never read it so Not really? All it takes is a planet with different composition than we're used to. Their planet could have very little atmosphere to it and for all we know everything on their world is acidic. Just big rivers of sizzling acid and the organisms all drink acid and swim around in it. It could be anything, they're aliens and it's all made up. Like on earth evolution has produced the platypus and octopuses that can live in thermal vents with tons of water pressure on them. We have jellyfish that can regrow their entire body and live potentially forever. Biology doesn't make much sense. purple death ray fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Nov 13, 2019 |
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Nov 13, 2019 18:47
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Linux Pirate posted:I think it was mentioned in the novelization of the movie, or at least that the jockeys were their creators. There has never been a canonical story. I think the old canon generally waffled between the Space Jockeys making them as a WMD, and the Space Jockeys having found and utilized them as a WMD that backfired because it was Greater Than Them. Because you know every goddamn sci-fi story needs artifacts from a long-forgotten even-more-ancient civilization. That crap. Probably with implications that Aliens were the oldest race or some sort of embodiment of fate or whatever. You know how those things go. The AvP line tended more toward Aliens having been found - or created - as the ultimate prey animal. They were even given a homeworld where they actually had natural predators so they would have a reason to develop armor. The original Alien all we know is that there was a fuckton of eggs in that ship's cargo hold, and one of them hosed up the pilot. He could have just been a space trucker hauling hazardous waste, he could have been a bomber pilot dropping them on enemies, who knows. purple death ray posted:I am actively ignoring prometheus and covenant same
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Nov 13, 2019 18:50
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purple death ray posted:am actively ignoring prometheus and covenant because they are bad and dumb additions to the universe, nothing has ever been improved by explaining exactly how the scary monster works and where it came from "A crazy robot invented them" is so feculantly risible. It's the absolute nadir of Prequel-Itis, the need to over-explain background with details that were better unstated or hinted at broadly and sketched in by the viewer's imagination.
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Nov 13, 2019 18:52
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purple death ray posted:I always got the impression they were just really nasty intergalactic bedbugs travelers from various planets would inadvertently bring home with them. They don't seem to have any culture, they don't develop technology, they have no communication with any other sentient being. They are basically bugs like Hudson says. I think any weapons application they had wasn't based on taming aliens to fight for you but probably more about the stuff you could develop by studying their various acids and resins and whatever else, or clearing out the population of a desirable planet via an even worse version of handing out smallpox blankets to the natives. The events of Alien a single alien decimates a crew of space truckers, Ripley barely escaped. In Aliens a proper hive develops out of a colony, killing all most all of them in the process, and then proceeds to kill a detachment of marines. Literally WY was looking to be able to drop a few eggs on undesirables and letting the space bugs do the work, no research is needed other than their ability to contain and/or breed them.
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Nov 13, 2019 18:53
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Linux Pirate posted:I think it was mentioned in the novelization of the movie, or at least that the jockeys were their creators. I plead the fifth. 
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Nov 13, 2019 18:56
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Vagabundo posted:I dunno, the fact that the Derelict had all the eggs all neatly organised in rows to begin with does suggest something's up.
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Nov 13, 2019 20:02
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pooch516 posted:Is there anything in the first few movies to suggest that the aliens are bioengineered bioweapons? I remember in my head just thinking that they were hosed up aliens that invade planets. Inspired by this thread I bought a few of the novels. I've made it through 2 so far and they talk heavily on using them as weapons, one of which they use as soldiers. But I don't think either the movies or so far in the books they talk about them being produced as such.
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Nov 13, 2019 20:06
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One of the books goes way into the xenos as soldiers bit. Can't remember which novel it was, but the gist was (spoilered just in case) an army guy captures a Queen, and uses her to control the drones. By threatening to burn up the Queen's eggs, the Queen is pacified, and the drones are somewhat domesticated. It gets to the point where he spraypaints unit numbers on the drones in preparation for warfare. IIRC, as the first battle is about to begin, the Queen goes "nah, we're done now", and dude gets splattered. I've only ever watched Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3, because those are the only movies in the series, and I will hear no arguments otherwise. I've always looked at the xenos as being like space roaches that were found somewhere. I can believe that in an infinite Universe, there could somewhere be a planet with conditions that would cause xenos to naturally evolve, even if said conditions are beyond my understanding or ability to explain. I don't find it artificial, the way the eggs in the Derelict ship are laid out neatly. Bees can make octagonal honeycomb, termites can build huge nests, beaver dams are pretty impressive feats of natural engineering. I don't find it too far-fetched that space bugs would store eggs neatly separated and organized. So yeah, I can do without the ancient bio-engineered weapons origins, and just accept them as nasty space parasites.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:30
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The Zombie Guy posted:So yeah, I can do without the ancient bio-engineered weapons origins, and just accept them as nasty space parasites. Same. I see no evidence suggesting that they were originally bioengineered to be a weapon before Prometheus. They were sort of like the Klendathu who exist and spread themselves around. In the Aliens movies, starting from Alien, the company wanted them for study. I think Burke mentions in Aliens that they wanted them for the bioweapons division which is the first time they suggest using them as actual weapons. Maybe 3, can't remember. Definitely Resurrection since they literally had them contained and were training them for being weapons. The whole they are a nanobot virus created by the Engineers is stupid and wasn't mentioned in any of the previous movies. In my opinion the space jockey ship was just taken over by them and crashed. Simple type of don't look into it too much thing. Not sure if anyone was on the ship because then they would have been hosts for the aliens and we don't see any on the ship besides the eggs in Alien. Not even a Queen. Just the lone eggs. There are more possibilities to suggest other things happened but I don't like retconning basically anything in any movie.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:44
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Pennywise the Frown posted:
I always figured the geometrical outlay of the derelict eggs were where the crew of the ship was in stasis, mirroring the visuals of the Nostromo crew's pods in the beginning of the first film. Remember how the first movie had the alien taking all the living hosts and injecting them with goo or something to turn them into more eggs, but that whole part was scrapped late in the process? Well, our engineer corpse buddy might have picked up a facehugger smooch somewhere before piloting a ship of his sleeping friends. It emerges, grows, and turns all the neatly ordered sleeping engineers into eggs, since they're not threats. If they left the eggification scene in, you'd be all 'oh, those eggs were all the passengers of the derelict' and the Alien's MO would have been nicely mirrored in a little subtle reveal. I dunno, I've always just thought that would be cool and wouldn't be too overexplicit. Pissed Ape Sexist fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Nov 13, 2019 |
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Nov 13, 2019 21:57
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I don't really see why the arrangement of the eggs requires any explanation whatsoever but ok.
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Nov 13, 2019 22:00
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Pissed Ape Sexist posted:Remember how the first movie had the alien taking all the living hosts and injecting them with goo or something to turn them into more eggs, but that whole part was scrapped late in the process? Nope. In the cut material Dallas was just cocooned. There was no queen or egg so he was never impregnated. Just doing what the xenos do to prepare people for eggs. purple death ray posted:I don't really see why the arrangement of the eggs requires any explanation whatsoever but ok. It absolutely doesn't. That's a really strange and pedantic argument.
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Nov 13, 2019 22:02
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Aliens still good. Hey Xenomprh maybe you've been asked this already but is your old avp2 lp still up somewhere? That was the first time i watched another man play games online
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Nov 13, 2019 22:11
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Nope. In the cut material Dallas was just cocooned. There was no queen or egg so he was never impregnated. Just doing what the xenos do to prepare people for eggs. What? No, Dallas was undergoing a process by which the Alien could create more eggs. It was the original way they did it before the Queen concept was invented for Aliens. What you saw in the deleted scene was Dallas being turned into an egg, but he was just not as far along as Brett, so he could still talk but see what was eventually going to happen to him. https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Eggmorphing 
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Nov 13, 2019 22:23
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The Zombie Guy posted:I've always looked at the xenos as being like space roaches that were found somewhere. I can believe that in an infinite Universe, there could somewhere be a planet with conditions that would cause xenos to naturally evolve, even if said conditions are beyond my understanding or ability to explain. I don't find it artificial, the way the eggs in the Derelict ship are laid out neatly. Bees can make octagonal honeycomb, termites can build huge nests, beaver dams are pretty impressive feats of natural engineering. I don't find it too far-fetched that space bugs would store eggs neatly separated and organized. Indubitably. I like my space monsters with a little bit of mystery. There's infinite worlds out there and I like the idea that the xeno's have been around, somewhere, doing their thing for a long, long, long time, and have spread somewhat by chance by hitching rides, or impregnating space faring beings, and sometimes going dormant for long periods until some other hapless life form stumbles upon them.
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Nov 13, 2019 22:36
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Jay_Zombie posted:Indubitably. I like my space monsters with a little bit of mystery. There's infinite worlds out there and I like the idea that the xeno's have been around, somewhere, doing their thing for a long, long, long time, and have spread somewhat by chance by hitching rides, or impregnating space faring beings, and sometimes going dormant for long periods until some other hapless life form stumbles upon them. Almost like they're, oh I dunno... ALIEN!?
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Nov 13, 2019 22:52
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revwinnebago posted:Almost like they're, oh I dunno... Exactly. They don't need to have every little bit of their origin spelled out via prequels, it just ruins the mystique. They just are, and that's enough for me. Generally speaking, I kinda hate prequels anyway.
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Nov 13, 2019 23:08
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Pissed Ape Sexist posted:What? No, Dallas was undergoing a process by which the Alien could create more eggs. It was the original way they did it before the Queen concept was invented for Aliens. What you saw in the deleted scene was Dallas being turned into an egg, but he was just not as far along as Brett, so he could still talk but see what was eventually going to happen to him. Huh, guess I never saw that before.
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Nov 14, 2019 01:00
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revwinnebago posted:They were even given a homeworld where they actually had natural predators so they would have a reason to develop armor. Oh god I remember that, I thought that was pretty cheesy imo. Not the home world part, but their natural predators. They looked vaguely like a cross between freddy freaker and a trandoshan that walked on all fours, and had cream of mushroom soup colored skin. If xenos did evolve on their own you'd think they'd be the prime species of that planet. As for keeping them in check, they (I think) require hosts to survive, once a hive dies out the eggs are the only way to continue the species. That's what I gathered from Labyrinth anyway, but I'm not sure if that hive was just stick. I don't a ton about the AvP EU so I could very well be spouting nonsense.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:41
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I remember as a kid talking about whether they were bioengineered or just an alien species. So, clearly someone was pressing the bioengineered angle since no reasonable third grader is going to suggest that on their own. It's like Vader getting hosed up by Obi Wan on a volcano. Everybody knew that piece of lore but I have no idea where it originated. I argued the aliens were intelligent since they clearly killed the other aliens on the spaceship but were able to land (even if it was a crash landing) the spaceship on the planet. That's way above mere "tool using". Especially in the '70s/'80s. Non-trained pilots could land planes then but it was pretty loving iffy. Imagine how much moreso with alien technology. The aliens did that, so they are clearly some kind of smart.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:06
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I disagree that they are smart. They're just perfect killing machines. They're animals. Bugs if you will.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:16
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Pennywise the Frown posted:I disagree that they are smart. They're just perfect killing machines. They're animals. Bugs if you will. And it's a great conversation to have where people disagree before going on the swings or trapping the girls with cooties in the wooden house.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:17
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The aliens are definitely intelligent, even if its simply the intelligence of biological imperatives like the preservation of the species.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:20
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Oscar Wild posted:The aliens are definitely intelligent, even if its simply the intelligence of biological imperatives like the preservation of the species. That's as intelligent as bugs are. Self preservation is what just about every living thing has and is why they continue to exist. Even bacteria. They're obviously intelligent enough to know not to attack when the queen says so but they don't use tools or anything. I doubt they could fly/land/crash/disintegrate a spaceship willingly. Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 03:27
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Pennywise the Frown posted:That's as intelligent as bugs are. Self preservation is what just about every living thing has and is why they continue to exist. Even bacteria. It would be very human to ascribe intention into what is simply luck or something like that. The aliens were clever in how they would probe the defenses of the marines but wasn't that simply the most direct route? I could be talked into that.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:33
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Unless it's a weird insane gay robot flying that starship it was the aliens. And back in the '80s, '90s and heck, even the '00s we had no reason to think it was a weird insane gay robot other than robots are always the real bad guys in alien and Ridley Scott uses homosexuality as a signifier for being evil in his movies. And that's not something a playground kid will consciously pick up on and extrapolate from to independently create the conclusion "gay robot". Edit: Even if it is obvious in retrospect. Shbobdb fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 03:34
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The space jockey was the pilot. We have no information how or why the ship got there. So we can only assume the obvious answer which is the guy that is in what looks like a weirdo pilot seat is the pilot. I really don't like speculating and I hate fan fiction with a passion so in my opinion the easiest explanation is usually the best. No need to look farther into this scenario than the writer or director ever did. In a lot of cases we are just not meant to know because neither did they. So we could go on and on all we want about what we think happened but the answer will always be "we'll never know because the people who are supposed to know don't know." Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 03:46
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That's fair. I just never really saw the jockey as a kid and LOL if you think the aliens didn't kill him before he could land. Why would he land?
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Nov 14, 2019 03:56
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Well now I want to see a bunch of xenomorphs in Star Trek uniforms being all polite to each other and stuff. Fan film anyone?
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Nov 14, 2019 04:00
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What if the alien and Geordi became "special" friends in a "special" episode? Please like and subscribe.
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Nov 14, 2019 04:02
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Pennywise the Frown posted:Well now I want to see a bunch of xenomorphs in Star Trek uniforms being all polite to each other and stuff. This is up there with my idea of the Predator homeworld being Initech from Office Space, except with Predators in office dress and a Lumbergh Predator.
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Nov 14, 2019 04:18
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Nov 14, 2019 04:21
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I don't know how canon the various novels are, but I think I remember reading a in a few of them that individual drones are no more intelligent than dogs, but queens are very intelligent. That was why Ripley was able to threaten the eggs in order to get the queen to make the drones back off. I can't remember if it's supposed to be some kind of psychic control that the queen has, or a pheromone thing. But yeah, it takes some intelligence to comprehend hostage tactics. Bugs would just attack threats blindly. Some animals could be driven off by swinging a weapon, but trying to hold their young hostage would just encourage a more aggressive response. Anyway I think I've put way more thought into this than some of the script writers.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:09
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