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Neo_Crimson posted:Uhh what? "No religion" the fastest growing religion many countries. Yeah but that's just reflected in people not actively practicing as opposed to identifying as atheist. Ask most non-religious people over 50 what religion they are and the will answer "nothing really" as opposed to tipping their fedora and whip out their Atheism membership card. Dire Lemming posted:It's not that odd for people to believe in a religion and also understand that for example the Bible was written by humans who had various political leanings and bad takes and thus ironically shouldn't always be taken as gospel. It doesn't really matter what they "acktually" are as long as they spout intolerance while identifying as atheist. Any more than explaining the contradictions between the teachings of Christ and the practices of modern day Christians.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:56
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MonsieurChoc posted:Most Religions are a lot more varied than you seem to believe. Christianity, in particular, has had a pretty varied history in regards to feminism and LGBTQ stuff depending on era, denomination, region, etc. It's really not that clear-cut. 
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Nov 14, 2019 06:11
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Eschenique posted:It doesn't really matter what they "acktually" are as long as they spout intolerance while identifying as atheist. It kind of does matter. In the US (and Australia and probably a lot of other places I don't know about) currently there's a concerted effort by the Christian right to paint themselves as a struggling minority group despite more than 70% of US citizens claiming to be Christian at a conservative estimate. One of the ways they fuel this myth is the growing number of atheists who the Christian right love to portray as completely immoral and completely bent on destroying Christianity. They then use this myth of being a beleaguered minority to grow support for more overt Christian influence in government and state institutions like schools, anti-abortion and anti-lgbt causes. So yeah portraying all atheists, which you don't need to self identify as religious people will do it for you, as Richard Dawkins types is literally far right propaganda. Edit: Also that's just a terrible argument in general, do you apply the same to TERFs and feminism? Dire Lemming fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 06:22
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I feel like it's a bit more complex than that. There's a definite "atheist" subculture around the internet. This isn't always the same subculture, but it all derives from the same neo-skeptic movement during the 2000s. Like, Elevatorgate was really the part that really fractured the whole thing into the whole rear end in a top hat Skeptic community and the Feminist Skeptic community (+ a few other fractures depending on country etc), and it's definitely not fair to call the former the latter. I think it is important to note that, strictly, anyone who professes no belief in a religion is not an atheist and that's an important counterpoint to that religious conservative propaganda, but it's also wrong to assert that self described and identified atheists (that is, people who choose to identify with that and generally take an ostensibly skeptical stance to metaphysics in general) don't generally share a fuzzy set of subcultural norms and beliefs. The flipside to what you're saying is that when people criticize "atheists" atheists really like to plead ignorance and claim that atheism, not being a religion, can't have all of these similar cultural beliefs and are all totally different and share no common viewpoints beyond not believing in gods! Which, again, while technically true, deliberately misses the like... whole cultural environment where self-described atheists form. While anybody can be an atheist, only people who encounter the term somewhere will adopt the label. And to view that label you have to have like... encountered atheist viewpoints, probably talked with a view atheists etc. You've gotten viewpoints from others and so on. This doesn't mean every Atheist is the same as ThunderF00t, just like not every feminist is Germaine Greer, but there are similar cultural and philosophical underpinnings that they share. I get why atheists do this, I really do. Evangelical propaganda really does atheists dirty, and very few people want to be viewed as being in the same group as the rear end in a top hat youtube atheist community, but it's still kinda disingenuous to say there's not some serious commonality between internet atheists, even if the parts where they're different (e.g. support for feminism or trans people or compassion for the religious or whatever else) are very fundamental, bitter schisms. Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 09:02
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I cant believe that Lindsay dropped the bomb and revealed that she did not in fact write super sexy explicit starscream fanfic. She's torching her fanbase and I fear.
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Nov 14, 2019 10:26
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Linear Zoetrope posted:I feel like it's a bit more complex than that. There's a definite "atheist" subculture around the internet. This isn't always the same subculture, but it all derives from the same neo-skeptic movement during the 2000s. Like, Elevatorgate was really the part that really fractured the whole thing into the whole rear end in a top hat Skeptic community and the Feminist Skeptic community (+ a few other fractures depending on country etc), and it's definitely not fair to call the former the latter. I think it is important to note that, strictly, anyone who professes no belief in a religion is not an atheist and that's an important counterpoint to that religious conservative propaganda, but it's also wrong to assert that self described and identified atheists (that is, people who choose to identify with that and generally take an ostensibly skeptical stance to metaphysics in general) don't generally share a fuzzy set of subcultural norms and beliefs. Your assumption seems to be that Atheism wasn't a thing before the internet. Which sounds rather stupid.
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Nov 14, 2019 10:36
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Linear Zoetrope posted:I feel like it's a bit more complex than that. There's a definite "atheist" subculture around the internet. This isn't always the same subculture, but it all derives from the same neo-skeptic movement during the 2000s. Like, Elevatorgate was really the part that really fractured the whole thing into the whole rear end in a top hat Skeptic community and the Feminist Skeptic community (+ a few other fractures depending on country etc), and it's definitely not fair to call the former the latter. I think it is important to note that, strictly, anyone who professes no belief in a religion is not an atheist and that's an important counterpoint to that religious conservative propaganda, but it's also wrong to assert that self described and identified atheists (that is, people who choose to identify with that and generally take an ostensibly skeptical stance to metaphysics in general) don't generally share a fuzzy set of subcultural norms and beliefs. The so-called internet atheist community didn’t invent the word, though. It’s possible to encounter it without ever coming into contact with them, and I can say that because that describes my experience. I didn’t even know there was an online atheist community until people started complaining about them.
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Nov 14, 2019 10:39
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A lot of the rear end in a top hat atheist community has moved on to becoming Christians at this point.
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Nov 14, 2019 11:09
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I hate this thing of "I do/believe/feel/whatever this thing, B-BUT I'M NOT THAT LABEL, I'M COOL" like it comes off as with what Eschenique is saying for just calling yourself atheist, "But no the internet atheists are bad, so I can't call myself atheist even though I'm atheist, that might lose me cool rep points, I'm not like those other atheists", it feels like the same dumb way 'gamer' has mutated into the word a bunch of people use it like now, "I play a ton of videogames and it's my main hobby, but I'm not a gamer", people trying to shift off of their own descriptors and let stupid assholes define them is dumb.watho posted:A lot of the rear end in a top hat atheist community has moved on to becoming Christians at this point. Also yes, a bunch of the earlier internet fedora etc. atheists were only ever opportunistic contrarians railing against what they aimed at as the 'mainstream' baddies to get a mad younger audience to watch, which at the time was the old dubya conservatives and all that, but now the eeeebil essjoows are the clickbait baddies, so time to put on my right winger cap, kiss boomer rear end and get to shilling my new youtube series, podcast, merch store and premium camshow detailing how the degenerates are bad and ruining everything. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 11:17
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Yardbomb posted:I hate this thing of "I do/believe/feel/whatever this thing, B-BUT I'M NOT THAT LABEL, I'M COOL" like it comes off as with what Eschenique is saying for just calling yourself atheist, "But no the internet atheists are bad, so I can't call myself atheist even though I'm atheist, that might lose me cool rep points, I'm not like those other atheists", it feels like the same dumb way 'gamer' has mutated into the word a bunch of people use it like now, "I play a ton of videogames and it's my main hobby, but I'm not a gamer", people trying to shift off of their own descriptors and let stupid assholes define them is dumb. Some people just don't want to get hit by the bad end of a broad brush. Same with people who are pro feminist ideas but don't like calling themselves feminist.
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Nov 14, 2019 11:22
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I keep typing long responses, but I think it just comes down to the fact that any society or group of people has cultural values and things that reinforce those values. The values that led to people self-identifying as atheists, and the people and ideas they encountered while maintaining that belief reinforce those. Obviously not all atheists encountered the same things, or developed exactly the same beliefs, or whatever else. But when people complain about "atheists" there's a very real undercurrent of values people are talking about and I think people recognize that and their first move is to disavow or distance based on perceived similarity, instead of just realizing people are talking about "those jerks" and not that person, specifically. Kind of like a less gross version of people popping in to go "not all men". Like, tbh almost all of the people I've seen who make the complaints about atheists are self-identified atheists with said similar cultural underpinnings but without the bit being complained about. Also, yes, obviously the word and concept of atheism predates the internet. Even the whole active skepticism-based atheism (as opposed to passive disbelief) things was around in a very similar form more than a couple decades before the internet popped off, I just feel like the particular trend and cultural values in the current timeframe really happened to develop and crystalized during the mid-late 2000s and largely (though by no means exclusively) on the atheist blogosphere. watho posted:A lot of the rear end in a top hat atheist community has moved on to becoming Christians at this point. True
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Nov 14, 2019 11:38
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"Trad" rhymes with "Chad". Checkmate leftists.
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Nov 14, 2019 11:54
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It’s always fun to see someone called like punished-tradcath screaming “it’s just drawings” about hentai depicting minors
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Nov 14, 2019 12:10
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Yardbomb posted:I hate this thing of "I do/believe/feel/whatever this thing, B-BUT I'M NOT THAT LABEL, I'M COOL" like it comes off as with what Eschenique is saying for just calling yourself atheist, "But no the internet atheists are bad, so I can't call myself atheist even though I'm atheist, that might lose me cool rep points, I'm not like those other atheists", it feels like the same dumb way 'gamer' has mutated into the word a bunch of people use it like now, "I play a ton of videogames and it's my main hobby, but I'm not a gamer", people trying to shift off of their own descriptors and let stupid assholes define them is dumb.
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Nov 14, 2019 12:24
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I used to be an Atheist but now I'm a lapsed Protestant instead  I like the comparison to "gamer" which I would absolutely call myself in the late 90s when playing video games was sort of a niche. But now the term is completely toxic. Young atheist me would absolutely argue with religious people because they just seemed like such easy targets. In time mainstream has seen people believe in way worse things for worse reasons (anti-vaxx, 9/11 conspiracies, pizzagate etc) I also find that the more I study history and religion the less of the bad things I can blame on religion specifically. Young me had no problem blaming religions for the things done in its name but when you look up the actual events 100% of the time there's always some political motivation behind it and religion is just the excuse to justify it. And had religion not been available then they would without a doubt have found some other excuse. This is especially obvious if you look at people today and what they justify with religion. Christians will absolutely push for directly anti-Christian policies while citing Christianity. They take the minimal things they agree with and then discard the rest. Most actual devout or seriously religious people just want to be left alone. It gets extra dumb when you got Atheists citing the dangers of fundamentalist Islam but then back straight up fundamentalist Christian policies and politicians because those are the most zealous in fighting Islam. At the expense of all normal Muslims who just want to be left alone.
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Nov 14, 2019 12:29
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Eschenique posted:I used to be an Atheist but now I'm a lapsed Protestant instead Uhh you do realise this argument works in reverse against you too right? Take your third and fourth paragraph and replace religion with atheism and it still works. You're also still talking about anti-theism more than atheism.
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Nov 14, 2019 12:38
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Yardbomb posted:Also yes, a bunch of the earlier internet fedora etc. atheists were only ever opportunistic contrarians railing against what they aimed at as the 'mainstream' baddies to get a mad younger audience to watch, which at the time was the old dubya conservatives and all that, but now the eeeebil essjoows are the clickbait baddies, so time to put on my right winger cap, kiss boomer rear end and get to shilling my new youtube series, podcast, merch store and premium camshow detailing how the degenerates are bad and ruining everything. Somewhere TJ Kirk's ears are burning.
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Nov 14, 2019 12:39
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Nobody except extremely online weirdos are going to think anything of you if you say that you're a gamer
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Nov 14, 2019 12:39
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Ryuga Death posted:This was a pretty enjoyable video. Even with him going on about the game's bad points, it was interesting to hear the game's mechanics instead of just saying how it's the worst thing ever or whatever. It's interesting because he had nearly 20 years of this so he has to thread carefully between the Seanbaby stuff and "actually if you dislike this game you were brainwashed by Seanbaby", which is quite a challenge and in a way also works as an overview of how the internet was like at the time. ... Seanbaby has a parenting article, that's how long it has been.
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Nov 14, 2019 12:52
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Dire Lemming posted:Uhh you do realise this argument works in reverse against you too right? Take your third and fourth paragraph and replace religion with atheism and it still works. You're also still talking about anti-theism more than atheism. Yeah but I'm not identifying as an Atheist either partially because that well is already so poisoned.
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Nov 14, 2019 12:54
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Andrast posted:Nobody except extremely online weirdos are going to think anything of you if you say that you're a gamer
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Nov 14, 2019 13:08
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Calling yourself a gamer implicitly makes playing video games a key part of your identity in a way that probably isn't healthy.
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Nov 14, 2019 13:17
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Dabir posted:Calling yourself a gamer implicitly makes playing video games a key part of your identity in a way that probably isn't healthy. Not really
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Nov 14, 2019 13:20
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Dabir posted:Calling yourself a gamer implicitly makes playing video games a key part of your identity in a way that probably isn't healthy. I mean sure, but identifying yourself with the media you consume isn't rly all that uncommon especially among younger folk. Peoples whose identity is basically "reader/book nerd" (more specifically "consumer of YA fiction", even more specifically Harry Potter) are like a good 30% of lesbian OK Cupid they just don't have a snappy word for it. I don't call myself a gamer of a cinema buff or whatever because I deliberately try to avoid basing my identity on the media I consume as much as possible, but I also literally could not function in society if I couldn't tolerate a certain level of people conflating self identity with the poo poo they like. I have a close friend who practically lives MCU stuff, for instance. She's great. Just... exhausting about MCU stuff.
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Nov 14, 2019 13:20
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Gaming Enthusiast
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Nov 14, 2019 14:22
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watho posted:A lot of the rear end in a top hat atheist community has moved on to becoming Christians at this point. That’s what’s so funny about this
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Nov 14, 2019 14:39
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watho posted:A lot of the rear end in a top hat atheist community has moved on to becoming Christians at this point. I don't know any that did this, to be honest. Most of the big names I remember have stayed atheists but also taken up hating Muslim's, trans people, and women. Andrast posted:Nobody except extremely online weirdos are going to think anything of you if you say that you're a gamer If they're not online they'll just think you're a boring nerd if you call yourself a gamer in a social setting. Bug Squash fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 14:45
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Bug Squash posted:I don't know any that did this, to be honest. Most of the big names I remember have stayed atheists but also taken up hating Muslim's, trans people, and women. So, they've taken up Christianity?
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Nov 14, 2019 15:03
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People ask you if you're a gamer, and you're afraid to answer, because you don't know if because they saw your Kirby t-shirt and are inquiring if you really like video games to make polite conversation, or if they're an extremely online type, and if you answer 'yes', they'll tell people around you that you're to be avoided.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:03
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Max Wilco posted:People ask you if you're a gamer, and you're afraid to answer, because you don't know if because they saw your Kirby t-shirt and are inquiring if you really like video games to make polite conversation, or if they're an extremely online type, and if you answer 'yes', they'll tell people around you that you're to be avoided. The best answer is, as always, not to give a gently caress what others think.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:04
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Max Wilco posted:People ask you if you're a gamer, and you're afraid to answer, because you don't know if because they saw your Kirby t-shirt and are inquiring if you really like video games to make polite conversation, or if they're an extremely online type, and if you answer 'yes', they'll tell people around you that you're to be avoided. More like that you answer yes and they go "me too! Now here are my views on Anita Sarkeesian."
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Nov 14, 2019 15:05
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Bug Squash posted:If they're not online they'll just think you're a boring nerd if you call yourself a gamer in a social setting. I am a boring nerd
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Nov 14, 2019 15:05
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I prefer to call myself a Digitally Delivered Ludic Experience Aficionado.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:12
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Eschenique posted:More like that you answer yes and they go "me too! Now here are my views on Anita Sarkeesian." I mean I've seen way more people go out of whack on the "GAMERRRRSSSS" stuff than like, vidyagameplayers opening with or even later revealing some kind of malicious views. More than anything the revelation I get from other "gamers" I've befriended is usually that they're gay or furry or like muscular ladies or something.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:15
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Eschenique posted:Yeah but I'm not identifying as an Atheist either partially because that well is already so poisoned. The well isn't poisoned nearly as much as you think, which was my original point. Eschenique posted:More like that you answer yes and they go "me too! Now here are my views on Anita Sarkeesian." Oh come the gently caress on.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:17
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You’re far more likely to get confused looks from people who still think gaming is just for kids, than you are to find someone in real life who knows/cares about all this online drama related to the gamer label.
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Nov 14, 2019 15:28
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Hey son are you still playing the nintendo?
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Nov 14, 2019 15:31
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Speaking of internet personalities and video games: what is up with Pokémon now? I've seen a bunch of people vaguely tweet about it and Hbomb dropped some kind of thread about 3D models of Pikachu?
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Nov 14, 2019 15:37
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Gamers are Mad cause LAZY CORPORATIONS LIKE NINTENDO wont put literally all 9001 pokemon in sword and gun https://twitter.com/EricVBailey/status/1194712509455966209
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Nov 14, 2019 15:38
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Leal posted:Hey son are you still playing the nintendo? Ha, our mom literally called our PSX "the Nintendo"
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Nov 14, 2019 15:49
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