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MassRafTer posted:The consensus should be "Jim Cornette is so lovely and useless he got dropped from two jobs in two companies because they'd rather work with the biggest idiot on the planet."
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Nov 17, 2019 21:13
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Junpei Hyde posted:what was his issue? They're Japanese He didn't watch the match and admitted as such, and I think him and Brian have skipped every Riho match on every show they've watched but still complain about her. He called Emi fat and said she looked like Margaret Cho, probably re-iterated his belief that they're only in AEW because Kenny Omega has a Japanese Schoolgirl fetish and is sleeping with them, and then said their match was boring and put the crowd to sleep despite not watching and admitting to not watching it. His views on the show are basically worthless at this point. In the beginning he would at least offer some constructive insight or legitimate criticism but at this point if the match involves someone he doesn't like he says "thing bad" and rattles off his pet nickname for them 20 times. Brian has always been unable to actually express why he holds any opinion and the extent of his input is saying something is decent or terrible and complaining that every match is too long. More often than not he'll just agree with Jim. They skip multiple matches per show and the meat is Jim doing the exact same rants about the same people he doesn't like and him and Brian constantly bringing up how embarrassing the show is and constantly framing their criticisms as concern for the perception of the Casual Audience, who they assure you are Turning The Channel multiple times a night out of disgust for the guy with his hands in his pockets. bebaloorpabopalo fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 21:16
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I for one am shocked that the racist said racist things
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Nov 17, 2019 21:30
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Not liking AEW is so baffling to me. It’s wrestling. Honest to god wrestling. Acting like AEW is turning away fans is moreso. Mocking TNA I get. That place has been a shitshow. Same with ROH. All it’s faults are wholly self inflicted. Starting to think this Jim Cornette guy isn’t even a wrestling fan. Just a bully that used wrestling as his cape.
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Nov 17, 2019 22:01
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:He didn't watch the match and admitted as such Even if he wasn't a racist piece of poo poo, the fact he is refusing to actually watch the show he is reviewing renders any take he has as null and void, and makes me question why anybody would actually want to listen or why anybody would give his takes any sense of credence (because they just want to agree with the guy "telling it like it is" I assume).
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Nov 17, 2019 23:10
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a cat youtube posted:Cornettes rant about Emi/Riho was one of the dumber things Ive heard Junpei Hyde posted:what was his issue? bebaloorpabopalo posted:They're Japanese Honestly, one of the most revealing things may be how positive he's continued to be about Britt Baker in spite of her...iffy AEW performances and cardio issues. It's hard for me to figure out how much of the "looking like a wrestler" stuff is genuine, both for the men and women. It never hit me until Matt Koon mentioned it, but after he did, whenever this Cornette poo poo comes up, one of the first things I think of now is that Janela has basically the same body type as Bobby Eaton. He's just a little smaller...and Eaton came from a small wrestler territory! On the other hand, it doesn't seem like this was anything he would have ever cared about until he was running the main WWE developmental territory, so maybe he internalized some of their poo poo without realizing it? Rhea Ripley or Matt Riddle or whoever having a great look is obviously a positive for them, but Janela and company don't have looks that are outright NEGATIVES for him. He's basically using the Johnny Ace era WWE hiring standards these days, which is hilarious but also hypocritical and sad. quote:His views on the show are basically worthless at this point. In the beginning he would at least offer some constructive insight or legitimate criticism but at this point if the match involves someone he doesn't like he says "thing bad" and rattles off his pet nickname for them 20 times. Brian has always been unable to actually express why he holds any opinion and the extent of his input is saying something is decent or terrible and complaining that every match is too long. More often than not he'll just agree with Jim. They skip multiple matches per show and the meat is Jim doing the exact same rants about the same people he doesn't like and him and Brian constantly bringing up how embarrassing the show is and constantly framing their criticisms as concern for the perception of the Casual Audience, who they assure you are Turning The Channel multiple times a night out of disgust for the guy with his hands in his pockets Meanwhile, Jim retweeted this galaxy brain take: https://twitter.com/Paul_Yeoman/status/1196122055596531714 It's almost as if people also tweet clips of his shows and his existing fans have been turned off by the shift in tone in the last 6 months and especially the last month or two...
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Nov 17, 2019 23:10
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the southern hick shouldnt point out other people´s body specially when they are actually making money
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Nov 17, 2019 23:13
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I assume despite Gatoh Move being 'outlaw', he didn't say anything about Emi winning female wrestler of the year in Tokyo Sports or Riho holding a title in Stardom, which would be the closest to a major women's promotion by his standard, especially after the Bushiroad buyout? Edit: The Excalibur thing is also insane because Jim was around when Lawler came into WWE, right? Is he so myopic that he thinks international fans had any clue who Lawler was? Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 23:43
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I’m not listening to the thing because I’d get angry but a big part of why Gatoh Move is so well liked by its current fans IS because it’s “outlaw”; they do a lot of mat shows in a shop front under a dentists office that because they aren’t in a ring mean that the wrestlers have to actually work creatively with what they have which makes them better in an actual ring. They do lots of comedy but also plenty of really good serious matches as well and both are great - the Riho-Emi Sakura and Mei Suruga-Emi Sakura are good examples of the latter but the Lulu Pencil-Antonio Honda match is a great example of the former. But the whole point of the “outlaw” thing is that it’s meant to be the sort of thing done with the contempt of the big names and that’s not true. When both worked that UK for EVE in 2016 they asked Manami Toyota to do some guest coaching and she was like “ask Emi; she’s much better”; Command Bolshoi worked Gatoh Move a bunch including her retirement show, you’ll see big names from across the scene work their shows - Nanae Takahashi and Yoshiko from SEAdLINNNG both worked a few dates this year, Kaori Yoneyama regularly works there, I mentioned Bolshoi but you go back in time and you see plenty of big names showing up in there. Other places book her trainees all the time - at this point Mei Suruga is the biggest success who works basically every Sendai Girls and SEAdLINNNG Show (probably the most traditional Joshi companies out there) but Mitsuru Konno works a lot outside as well - so clearly what you could call the “Joshi establishment” massively respects her and what she does in the little room underneath the dentists office. Doesn’t really sound like an outlaw promotion if everyone is booking you and your wrestlers including international companies, and if plenty of big name wrestling are happy to work your little no ring shows. Apologies if this goes long but it’s something I know a lot about and am obviously rather passionate about plus I think it further demonstrates the guys inability to understand wrestling cultures he doesn’t know, how things have changed over time and frankly how things are very different in Japan.
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Nov 18, 2019 00:19
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I didn’t know Excalibur was a retired wrestler until the Jimmy Havoc thing, and this lack of context did not hinder my enjoyment of his commentary to have not known this, but I’m also generally pretty generous when it comes to suspending my disbelief.
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Nov 18, 2019 00:21
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Well now I'm just imagining an announcer wearing a mask for their entire career despite never being a wrestler. Also: Jim Cornette sounds like a very confused and angry person. I wonder if he even knows what really makes him happy these days. I'd pity him, but he sounds like a douchecanoe.
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Nov 18, 2019 00:58
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Why does @TheJimCornette obsess about the internet mud show poo poo wrestling fans every single week even though he hate them, answer- he actually respects them and wishes they would stop telling the truth about the poo poo he likes.
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Nov 18, 2019 01:02
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ChrisBTY posted:Well now I'm just imagining an announcer wearing a mask for their entire career despite never being a wrestler. This is 100% what I thought Excalibur was until a week ago.
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Nov 18, 2019 01:09
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I don’t know why people are so weird about Excalibur’s mask
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Nov 18, 2019 01:55
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Beef Jerky Robot posted:I don’t know why people are so weird about Excalibur’s mask Yeah like even if he was never a wrestler. What would it matter if he wore a mask. I would just see it as a funny thing to set him apart from other commentators.
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Nov 18, 2019 01:56
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Hating Riho but being hugely positive about Britt seems like a good sign, along with piles of other evidence, that the only thing Cornette cares about is look. Riho didn't fit his dumb stereotypes about what a wrestler looks like but Britt does.
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Nov 18, 2019 01:57
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I supposed if it was a full face mask that muffled his voice I could see it being an issue (even then, Liger regularly commentates on New Japan with his mask on) but Excalibur's voice is clear and distinct and very, very enjoyable to listen to.
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Nov 18, 2019 02:05
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The thing is Cornette's always totally cherry picked his complaints and been hypocritical based on his biases (and has even admitted as much sometimes) but that ire used to be directed at WWE or TNA where people agreed and now its tuned to AEW. So like, he'll just find things to be mad about because that's what he's always done.
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Nov 18, 2019 02:19
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Lead Pipe Cinch posted:I didn’t know Excalibur was a retired wrestler until the Jimmy Havoc thing, and this lack of context did not hinder my enjoyment of his commentary to have not known this, but I’m also generally pretty generous when it comes to suspending my disbelief. It's funny because I always just take it for granted that everyone knows Excalibur used to wrestle but he's been retired since 2007, he was only ever around for about 7 years, most of that spent in So-Cal apart from a handful of dates with CZW & some other one offs. And I don't really think I could say he stood out: among his peers in the PWG founders obviously Super Dragon stands out as #1, Joey Ryan is very much not for everyone but he's had a hell of a career, & I'm not sure Chris Bosh's shtick would pass the mustard in 2019 but his character at least stood out more than Excalibur. Dude was very much okay, he had a fun tag team with Super Dragon (if you have Highspots Network or Internet Wrestling TV, check if they have Cage of Death VI & check out Super Dragon & Excalibur against Steen & Generico. I've no idea if it stands up to 15 years of time passing by but it was a really fun indie tag at the time) Anyway, reminiscing about 2000s indies is far more interesting to me than Jim Cornette so... forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 02:48
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Jerusalem posted:I supposed if it was a full face mask that muffled his voice I could see it being an issue (even then, Liger regularly commentates on New Japan with his mask on) but Excalibur's voice is clear and distinct and very, very enjoyable to listen to. To be fair, Liger has a special version of his mask he uses for appearances like that that is more like Excalibur's where the mouth is exposed. I also didn't clock until this week that Excalibur's current mask is in the AEW colours.
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Nov 18, 2019 02:49
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Gumball Gumption posted:Hating Riho but being hugely positive about Britt seems like a good sign, along with piles of other evidence, that the only thing Cornette cares about is look. Riho didn't fit his dumb stereotypes about what a wrestler looks like but Britt does. Same with Bea Priestley (who I generally like, but her AEW program with Britt hasn't exactly been lighting the world on fire, to say the least), who Corny once described in one of his AEW rants/reviews as being "hotter than a blowtorch in a microwave". Bea and Britt are both attractive women, but building your women's division around physical attractiveness instead of things like the ability to work and connect with an audience is how we ended up with WWE Divas for so goddamn long.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:14
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forkboy84 posted:It's funny because I always just take it for granted that everyone knows Excalibur used to wrestle but he's been retired since 2007, he was only ever around for about 7 years, most of that spent in So-Cal apart from a handful of dates with CZW & some other one offs. And I don't really think I could say he stood out: among his peers in the PWG founders obviously Super Dragon stands out as #1, Joey Ryan is very much not for everyone but he's had a hell of a career, & I'm not sure Chris Bosh's shtick would pass the mustard in 2019 but his character at least stood out more than Excalibur. Dude was very much okay, he had a fun tag team with Super Dragon (if you have Highspots Network or Internet Wrestling TV, check if they have Cage of Death VI & check out Super Dragon & Excalibur against Steen & Generico. I've no idea if it stands up to 15 years of time passing by but it was a really fun indie tag at the time) Yeah, its weird because PWG is an institution but Dragon, Bosh, Disco, and Lost are all long gone and its just Excalibur and Joey Ryan left. And Joey's become such a polarizing but ubiquitous part of US indie wrestling. Also RIP Wrestling Society X. Also where's B-Boy and Human Tornado?
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Nov 18, 2019 03:20
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, its weird because PWG is an institution but Dragon, Bosh, Disco, and Lost are all long gone and its just Excalibur and Joey Ryan left. And Joey's become such a polarizing but ubiquitous part of US indie wrestling. Didn't Human Tornado show up at a GCW show pretty recently?
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Nov 18, 2019 03:39
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CombineThresher posted:Didn't Human Tornado show up at a GCW show pretty recently? Against Kikutaro, I think.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:43
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drat it, now I'm nostalgic for 2000s indie wrestling. Excuse me, I'm gonna go listen to Teenage Dirtbag.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:44
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DangerDummy! posted:Against Kikutaro, I think. I really need to start watching GCW.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:46
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Right? That's one of those fun match ups you never really put together in your own head.
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Nov 18, 2019 03:54
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DangerDummy! posted:Right? That's one of those fun match ups you never really put together in your own head. Unlike Jim Cornette, Kikutaro is the coolest and the best.
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Nov 18, 2019 04:04
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Gaz-L posted:Edit: The Excalibur thing is also insane because Jim was around when Lawler came into WWE, right? Is he so myopic that he thinks international fans had any clue who Lawler was? Made even more amazing by how Lawler almost always wore more cartoonish outfits in WWE. He was *always* a caricature of himself in WWE, and while he had national TV runs on and off from about 1982-1991, they were mostly fleeting and with what were, realistically, third tier promotions. (The exception being his brief Georgia run where he was supposed to work with Piper.) IceAgeComing posted:I’m not listening to the thing because I’d get angry but a big part of why Gatoh Move is so well liked by its current fans IS because it’s “outlaw”; they do a lot of mat shows in a shop front under a dentists office that because they aren’t in a ring mean that the wrestlers have to actually work creatively with what they have which makes them better in an actual ring. They do lots of comedy but also plenty of really good serious matches as well and both are great - the Riho-Emi Sakura and Mei Suruga-Emi Sakura are good examples of the latter but the Lulu Pencil-Antonio Honda match is a great example of the former. davidbix fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Nov 18, 2019 |
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Nov 18, 2019 04:05
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bebaloorpabopalo posted:They're Japanese FWIW Brian did have an epiphany of sorts a few weeks back that AEW is just a different type of wrestling (he was specifically talking about how much he loved a young bucks match) than what he’s used to enjoying and when he looks at it like that he likes it a lot more. I don’t know why it took so long for him to realize something so obvious on its face but Cornette just sounded flabbergasted by that opinion although surprisingly wasn’t being hostile about it, which makes me think he really just doesn’t get it at all. It shocked the hell out of me though cause I never thought Brian would actually say something that totally disagreed with Jim aside from his blazing hatred of JBL
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Nov 18, 2019 04:12
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STAC Goat posted:drat it, now I'm nostalgic for 2000s indie wrestling. Nate Webb's still around!
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Nov 18, 2019 04:41
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STAC Goat posted:drat it, now I'm nostalgic for 2000s indie wrestling. Hype vignette: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lusHXU3WLM Wheatus performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b27QN79DWWg Fan video of the Wheatus performance so you can see the crowd reaction to the vignette: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk0ZXtA4Zj4 The match itself featured an amazing Teenage Dirtbag-centric false finish. Then at Spring Break Night Two this year, during the Clusterfuck, Webb and Marko Stunt were performing Teenage Dirtbag, only to be interrupted and attacked by a masked MJF, who had been sitting on the stage as a fan. The best. (Oh, and after the show, I got to witness Nate have A Moment with Wheatus where they genuinely thanked him for helping keep the song alive and had a group hug and everything.)
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Nov 18, 2019 05:01
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Apparently I should be paying more attention to this GCW thing.
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Nov 18, 2019 05:07
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CombineThresher posted:Didn't Human Tornado show up at a GCW show pretty recently? B boy was there too. He wrestled Chris Dickinson.
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Nov 18, 2019 05:09
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I already knew a little about Cornette but I only became aware of his podcast thanks to this thread and now I wish I had never watched it. His video about the women's match at Full Gear in particular was just vile. You don't have to like any wrestling match but he crossed the line big time with some of those comments. At its heart, professional wrestling is just a story told within the confines of a wrestling ring and that's it. Those stories can run across a spectrum of realism and believability and comedy much the same way that film or a TV show does. Saying we shouldn't tell stories where a small guy beats a much larger guy or where a bunch of goons get taken out by someone with his hands in his pockets or whatever else he complains about is as ludicrous as saying the stories told in any medium should be done a certain way. Of course, there should be some internal rules and consistency based on the tone set by the promotion. They aren't and shouldn't show Marko Stunt beating the poo poo out of Jon Moxley but having a big guy throw him into a tornado DDT position against an opponent in a lower card match is perfectly acceptable in an environment that exists somewhat in the realm of the comedic and fantastical. I think it's better to watch any wrestling show with the tone in mind and judge the sort of matches and characters that exist in that world on those merits.
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Nov 18, 2019 05:09
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STAC Goat posted:Apparently I should be paying more attention to this GCW thing. Legit the two GCW shows I’ve gone to have been my favorite wrestling shows in a long time. It just reminds me that wrestling can be anything. As long as it’s weird and violent.
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Nov 18, 2019 05:11
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Crapple! posted:They aren't and shouldn't show Marko Stunt beating the poo poo out of Jon Moxley but having a big guy throw him into a tornado DDT position against an opponent in a lower card match is perfectly acceptable in an environment that exists somewhat in the realm of the comedic and fantastical. Right now maybe. But Darko Marko should wreck house.
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Nov 18, 2019 05:12
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STAC Goat posted:Apparently I should be paying more attention to this GCW thing.
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Nov 18, 2019 05:15
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STAC Goat posted:Apparently I should be paying more attention to this GCW thing. GCW is easily the most influential indie in the US.
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Nov 18, 2019 05:16
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STAC Goat posted:Apparently I should be paying more attention to this GCW thing. in a year where there is a new major north american wrestling promotion that doesn't suck total rear end GCW is still my favorite promotion bar none check them out!
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Nov 18, 2019 05:23
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