Stadia: How Stadia Pro Users Were SHOCKED with CRAZY stealth drop!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stadia: How Stadia Pro Users Were SHOCKED with CRAZY stealth drop!

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American McGay: Feb 28, 2010; by sebmojo

Regrettable posted:

Use your words. Where's the lie?

# ? Nov 23, 2019 19:45

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 19:37

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

wyoak posted:

Because faster internet is becoming more and more ubiquitous (despite the best efforts of ISPs), compression continues to get better and cheaper, and consumers have shown that subscription models with low upfront costs are viable or even preferred. Streaming video was attempted over and over again and it failed over and over again until it didn�t.

Competitive gamers playing fighting games and fast FPS�s will probably never get on board, just like cinephiles and audiophiles who scream about the shortcomings of streaming, but there are people in this thread who have said the technology is viable for them and it�s good enough (even ignoring the google employee). Sure, they�re in ideal geographic locations on better-than-most connections, but the amount of people in those situations are only going to grow, and if the base grows developers will design games around the limitations of the platform, just like they did with mobile. People play Fortnite on spectacularly lovely cellular networks, it seems insane to think an additional 44ms of lag is going to matter to most people.

This doesn�t mean Google is going to be the one to figure it out Netflix-style (and btw Netflix streaming was fuckin garbo for a while), but someone will - MS seems like the most likely to me, but who knows. It also doesn�t mean it�s going to replace consoles or PC�s in the next 5 years (which alot of people ITT seem to think is the goal), it�s just another segment.

The additional 44ms of lag is in ideal conditions. Using a lovely connection will probably send it to 100ms+, which is very quickly in the unplayable for anyone range.

All input lag is additive too so any additional non-optimal setups will just make stuff worse

Andrast fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 23, 2019

# ? Nov 23, 2019 19:52

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

I don't think it's inferring a lie. Just popping by to call you guys stupid again. But really, stop blowing cash on dumb poo poo like this again. There HAS to be a better way to spend. There MUST be anything else more worthwhile to buy for yourself.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 19:53

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

More bandwidth does not correlate to lower latency. The networks in the US are absolute poo poo, just increasing the width of the pipe will not fix it when its going through a poo poo ton of nodes to get to googles servers

and even if it did google is having issues rendering current gen games and we are like a year away before a generational leap

# ? Nov 23, 2019 19:55

Good Dumplings: Mar 30, 2011; Excuse my worthless shitposting because all I can ever hope to accomplish in life is to rot away the braincells of strangers on the internet with my irredeemable brainworms.

American McGay posted:

Use your words. Where's the lie?

I don't think there's a lie, but it doesn't matter when the real question is of gaining customers in a saturated market

this is a product that mainly competes by being more convenient than its alternatives, the second you dismiss a section of the market as "never getting on board" you're strategically hosed. this is, again, a bit like nintendo looking at their market and deciding that they shouldn't bother making a shooter because "FPS people aren't interested in our console"

Glenn Quebec posted:

I don't think it's inferring a lie. Just popping by to call you guys stupid again. But really, stop blowing cash on dumb poo poo like this again. There HAS to be a better way to spend. There MUST be anything else more worthwhile to buy for yourself.

I'm pretty sure goons buy dumb poo poo because it's dumb, that gives the product a veneer of being a plucky underdog being picked on by snobs

# ? Nov 23, 2019 19:59

Regrettable: Jan 5, 2010

American McGay posted:

Use your words. Where's the lie?

It's not a lie, just a lovely comparison. One is entire genres of games simply not working on your service because they are inherently competitive and rely on consistent inputs in order to function in the way they were designed. So if we were to move to streaming only game services they would basically need to be phased out of existence. This isn't happening with say funk music or scifi movies because there is no inherent difference in their media playback based on their genre.

e: basically, we didn't lose entire genres of movies and music by moving to streaming services but there is a real possibility that we could lose entire genres of games by doing the same

Regrettable fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 23, 2019

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:02

mikemil828: May 15, 2008; A man who has said too much

wyoak posted:

Because faster internet is becoming more and more ubiquitous (despite the best efforts of ISPs), compression continues to get better and cheaper, and consumers have shown that subscription models with low upfront costs are viable or even preferred. Streaming video was attempted over and over again and it failed over and over again until it didn�t.

Competitive gamers playing fighting games and fast FPS�s will probably never get on board, just like cinephiles and audiophiles who scream about the shortcomings of streaming, but there are people in this thread who have said the technology is viable for them and it�s good enough (even ignoring the google employee). Sure, they�re in ideal geographic locations on better-than-most connections, but the amount of people in those situations are only going to grow, and if the base grows developers will design games around the limitations of the platform, just like they did with mobile. People play Fortnite on spectacularly lovely cellular networks, it seems insane to think an additional 44ms of lag is going to matter to most people.

This doesn�t mean Google is going to be the one to figure it out Netflix-style (and btw Netflix streaming was fuckin garbo for a while), but someone will - MS seems like the most likely to me, but who knows. It also doesn�t mean it�s going to replace consoles or PC�s in the next 5 years (which alot of people ITT seem to think is the goal), it�s just another segment.

It's not really a matter of speed, it's a matter of consistency. While folks might be able to adapt to 44ms of consistent additional lag, folks aren't going to adapt to the occasional spikes of 200ms additional lag when some router has a brain fart.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:05

wyoak: Feb 14, 2005; a glass case of emotion; Fallen Rib

I don�t think the market is saturated at all - something like half of US households have a console at all, and even if that number was 100%, dismissing the model wholesale seems a bit like saying Spotify had no future because every house already had a dozen different ways to play music.

But I agree don�t buy stadia now or even next year

there seems to be some confusion, I am not saying streaming is the only way games will be played in 12 months or even 5 years, I�m just saying there�s a very viable market waiting and someone is gonna tap it. Mobile gaming didn�t kill consoles and neither will streaming.

wyoak fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Nov 23, 2019

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:05

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

wyoak posted:

I don�t think the market is saturated at all - something like half of US households have a console at all, and even if that number was 100%, dismissing the model wholesale seems a bit like saying Spotify had no future because every house already had a dozen different ways to play music.

Streaming music or video is very different to streaming a game or VoIP.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:11

Scott Forstall: Aug 16, 2003; MMM THAT FAUX LEATHER

wyoak posted:

People play Fortnite on spectacularly lovely cellular networks, it seems insane to think an additional 44ms of lag is going to matter to most people.

In addition to the lag spike thing that someone already mentioned, there�s like 100 million monthly average players on fortnite. It runs on a toaster. I find it hard to believe there is still a significant chunk of people dying to play fortnite without the means to do so already.

Also, how would FTP w/ micro transactions work on stadia anyway? Is google cool with people using data center resources when they are playing for free? Is epic (or whoever, outside of the fortnite example) cool with cutting google in on the mtx money?

I don�t mean this as an attack on you, I just have yet to hear of an actual long term business model for this. Additionally, Google incentivizes launching products, not turning them around (see: google graveyard). Does anyone expect Phil Harrison to be there for 2 years to execute a turnaround?

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:23

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

also anyone who sees this as its own thing is missing the point

this is very clearly and obviously a way to goose demand for Google Fiber and put some corporate will behind expanding it, now that it's otherwise basically stalled out

as it stands, there's basically two groups of people who get much out of Fiber, people who torrent a shitload and hardcore PC gamers who download massive Steam games. Stadia essentially introduces a problem for Fiber to actually solve, because as crappy as most internet is, you have to get to extreme situations like this (and make people at least somewhat want those edge cases) for it to be noticeable enough for most people to give a poo poo.

and i have a weird feeling Stadia works, if not perfectly, at least decently on Fiber.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:25

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

wyoak posted:

I�m just saying there�s a very viable market waiting and someone is gonna tap it.

The way it works now this only works if you have the top 1% of internet in the country and nobody else is using it at the same time.

Right now, this second, there literally isn't a market. Because it simply will not work for most people.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:27

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

also anyone who sees this as its own thing is missing the point

this is very clearly and obviously a way to goose demand for Google Fiber and put some corporate will behind expanding it, now that it's otherwise basically stalled out

as it stands, there's basically two groups of people who get much out of Fiber, people who torrent a shitload and hardcore PC gamers who download massive Steam games. Stadia essentially introduces a problem for Fiber to actually solve, because as crappy as most internet is, you have to get to extreme situations like this (and make people at least somewhat want those edge cases) for it to be noticeable enough for most people to give a poo poo.

and i have a weird feeling Stadia works, if not perfectly, at least decently on Fiber.

didn't google already kill google fiber

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:27

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

also anyone who sees this as its own thing is missing the point

this is very clearly and obviously a way to goose demand for Google Fiber and put some corporate will behind expanding it, now that it's otherwise basically stalled out

as it stands, there's basically two groups of people who get much out of Fiber, people who torrent a shitload and hardcore PC gamers who download massive Steam games. Stadia essentially introduces a problem for Fiber to actually solve, because as crappy as most internet is, you have to get to extreme situations like this (and make people at least somewhat want those edge cases) for it to be noticeable enough for most people to give a poo poo.

and i have a weird feeling Stadia works, if not perfectly, at least decently on Fiber.

lmao

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:33

Ichabod Tane: Oct 30, 2005; A most notable
coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.

https://youtu.be/_Ojd0BdtMBY?t=4

Yeah it's dead. I love how hard goal posts have moved RDR2 4k 60 frames to loving Fortnite. People are straight up dumb. I've never been more disheartened. Ouya was a piece of poo poo but that was a plucky upstart company trying something. I respect people who backed it on a lark but went eh it sucks, too bad.

But Google? This screams proof of life tech concept / fund our R&D for us.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:34

dex_sda: Oct 11, 2012

Gobbeldygook posted:

There are some pretty surprising SteamOS/Linux ports. How was porting the Tomb Raider trilogy to Linux a rational decision?

They ported the first one when Steam started being offered on Linux. The porting company was Feral Gaming I think, experts at that sort of thing. I assume they made their money over since Square-Enix does this with many of their games.

You'd probably be surprised to be honest, there's quite a few people who play indie games on Steam nowadays (with Proton built in there's a wealth of games that work perfectly even if they're not ported) and those people will likely jump at a native AAA release. And Feral does a good job with ports. e; should be noted that I'm a primary Linux user who has a dual-boot for gaming but really likes when the game works natively/perfectly with Proton since I don't need to reboot. It's me, I'm the Linux shill

dex_sda fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Nov 23, 2019

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:45

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

There's a difference between network lag synchronizing player data and display lag. If your network is lovely, you're seeing your opposing players in the past but your actions are local and swift. If you have display lag due to streaming, your actions are perceptibly delayed too. Depending on the game mechanics, you might start to overcorrect your actions, and that's annoying as gently caress.

I tried GTA5 over 4G via Steam Link once, which added around 50ms. It made hectic driving around a pain in the rear end.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 20:47

mdxi: Mar 13, 2006; to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING

charity rereg posted:

For the servers to be on the edge would require google to have physically shipped servers to at least dozens of network nodes owned by completely separate companies, losing all economics of scale, and also losing the primary selling point of stadia: the ability to throw more/ludicrous (lol) power at some games due to their massive infrastructure.

I just can't believe that claim, id need to see some really firm proof and explanations if that's what's truly going on. It would almost explain why the graphics suck, because every edge node only has a few servers with limited GPU power. It's not distributed computing, it's computing - distributed. Edit: it would also explain why two Stadia players could still have awful ping to each other.

I have no idea where stadia servers in particular live, but the thing that you're claiming is impossible has been a reality for well over a decade. Google has already "physically shipped servers to ~~at least dozens~~ hundreds of network nodes owned by completely separate companies".

And that's nothing particularly impressive or unique, because so has every other CDN player out there. That's how this works. The scale of a truly global compute infrastructure is very, very, very large.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 21:48

Inferior: Oct 19, 2012

Been playing around with Stadia all day. 4K was juddery as hell, but 1080p runs well. Google's stated numbers for how fast your internet needs to be to run Stadia well are very optimistic. Or total bullshit.

The technology is kind of cool. I ran Destiny 2 happily on an old tablet that would struggle to run anything 3D. I'd tried PS Now a while ago, and Stadia has noticeably better graphics and less lag. Stadia Pro is unreliable for anyone outside a major city, but regular Stadia could be useful, especially if the app gets as ubiquitous as YouTube.

Glenn Quebec posted:

This screams proof of life tech concept / fund our R&D for us.

I always thought Stadia was intended to be Google's Trojan horse to break back into the China market, but I dunno if they're that good at long term planning.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:10

Steve Yun: Aug 7, 2003; I'm a parasitic landlord that needs to get a job instead of stealing worker's money. Make sure to remind me when I post.; Soiled Meat

Shumagorath posted:

You might laugh but this is the company that put garbage code in YouTube just to nullify battery life advantages in competing browsers.

I would like to know more about this!

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:20

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

also anyone who sees this as its own thing is missing the point

this is very clearly and obviously a way to goose demand for Google Fiber and put some corporate will behind expanding it, now that it's otherwise basically stalled out

as it stands, there's basically two groups of people who get much out of Fiber, people who torrent a shitload and hardcore PC gamers who download massive Steam games. Stadia essentially introduces a problem for Fiber to actually solve, because as crappy as most internet is, you have to get to extreme situations like this (and make people at least somewhat want those edge cases) for it to be noticeable enough for most people to give a poo poo.

and i have a weird feeling Stadia works, if not perfectly, at least decently on Fiber.

This is a very dumb take. Google fiber ~~stalled out~~ died because it was expensive and harder than they thought it would be. There was nothing stopping them from continuing to lay down fiber(besides cost and I think zoning / land rights) and then roll out stadia to those areas first to show off the product in sort of a limited demo.

Also even with fiber you can get high latency, so it isn't a magic solution.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:20

well why not: Feb 10, 2009

If it were aimed at China then they�d have a moba assuming that they had any games at all

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:21

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

Steve Yun posted:

I would like to know more about this!

Edge's video hardware assist was consistently more efficient than Chrome, so YouTube started displaying a big invisible 2D element over the video frame to break it. There's also the time Google refused to make any apps for Windows Phone, but when Microsoft made a top-class YouTube app Google just revoked their API key because the app wasn't using HTML5.

They are absolutely the dirtiest tech conglomerate to ever exist, far exceeding the 90's Microsoft that got hauled in by the DOJ for antitrust.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:26

well why not: Feb 10, 2009

100% they�re filthy bastards. The amount of dubious poo poo they�ve done to boost chrome is pretty wild.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:30

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Using Stadia to boost Google Fiber is a level of strategy that Google has never, ever demonstrated in its entire existence, beyond just being out to lunch and irreconcilable with reality.

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:33

Shumagorath: Jun 6, 2001

well why not posted:

100% they�re filthy bastards. The amount of dubious poo poo they�ve done to boost chrome is pretty wild.

When I log into my Google account with a device using Edge it gives me a security alert because I clear all Google cookies. Two thirds of the alert is an ad for Chrome. Now that Edge is switching to Chromium, Google are trying to deprecate the API that ad block extensions rely on to inspect traffic. Google Project Zero has some talented researchers but you'll notice they almost never make big disclosures about their own products; meanwhile one of their guys will post ominous tweets that move stock prices of other companies.

If they were serious about Stadia or it somehow stays afloat long enough for Google to get serious about it, I would expect a lot more behaviour like this.

Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 23, 2019

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:43

Spellman: May 31, 2011

Google reels you into a network of apps of which their usefulness improves as you acquire more Google branded hardware

All the big companies do this though. Apple is the king of this, but Microsoft, Samsung, Nintendo, Sony�they all leverage their muscle to varying degrees to keep you tethered to their brands

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:57

Cavauro: Jan 9, 2008

GameCube

# ? Nov 23, 2019 23:58

tater_salad: Sep 15, 2007

Heres a hot take

Stadia isn't as bad as every makes it sound.

I played destiny 2 (poorly) on a $99 💻 that got converted to a Chromebook. This laptop can not even stream properly from YouTube in full screen. I got about the same performance our of d2

I played on a laptop that could never play it while my kids streamed Netflix, I got good quality video and noticed some small hitches occasions but it wasn't unplayable.

I played on my 65" tv and it rules.

I played Sam sho and I suck at it like all fighting games and it felt lovely why would Google put fighting games on the platform it seems dumb but I so suck at it.

Edit:
Really my only gripe in my limited use is paying full price for RDR2 and the limited lineup. Honestly I'd like to see poo poo like 7d2die or some more chill strategy type games.

tater_salad fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Nov 24, 2019

# ? Nov 24, 2019 00:15

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Spellman posted:

Google reels you into a network of apps of which their usefulness improves as you acquire more Google branded hardware

All the big companies do this though. Apple is the king of this, but Microsoft, Samsung, Nintendo, Sony�they all leverage their muscle to varying degrees to keep you tethered to their brands

Yeah but the difference is Nintendo doesn't sneak code into other companies' game consoles that make them run like poo poo because they're not a jealous bunch of rat fink children unlike Google

# ? Nov 24, 2019 00:15

tater_salad: Sep 15, 2007

Then fuckoff then an buy an iPhone and never touch anything Google does. But importantly fuckoff this isn't the why I hate Google thread.

# ? Nov 24, 2019 00:23

Mokotow: Apr 16, 2012

Worked out of the box for me - over wifi and on cable, it really was smooth all the way without a single lag spike playing D2. I�m in a city in Germany so the internet is good-ish. Really surprised. I�ll try it out in Poland and hotel wifis next week.

# ? Nov 24, 2019 00:28

shadow puppet of a: Jan 10, 2007; NO TENGO SCORPIO

tater_salad posted:

Then fuckoff then an buy an iPhone and never touch anything Google does. But importantly fuckoff this isn't the why I hate Google thread.

Hang on this is an inclusive space, we can hate every company in here. Ain't nobody going to silence my disdain for Bink Video from RAD Game Tools!

# ? Nov 24, 2019 00:29

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

A review of Stadia by a pretty big YouTube mainstream tech reviewer titled "Google Stadia is Dead to Me"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ8SpKaXkWg

Summary: lag sucks, experience is worse than console gaming, why would devs port games over

# ? Nov 24, 2019 00:37

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

shadow puppet of a posted:

Hang on this is an inclusive space, we can hate every company in here. Ain't nobody going to silence my disdain for Bink Video from RAD Game Tools!

They have a similar logo except it's rainbow, right?

# ? Nov 24, 2019 00:55

biznatchio: Mar 31, 2001; Buglord

wyoak posted:

People play Fortnite on spectacularly lovely cellular networks, it seems insane to think an additional 44ms of lag is going to matter to most people.

Network latency and jitter at the game protocol level isn't as significant of a problem because game engines can (and do) employ all sorts of techniques to hide the unreliability of the network from the player: motion prediction, interpolation, and even literally going back in time in the game simulation to make events appear consistent now even if they were received by the client a little late. That flexibility is why people can play Fortnite on lovely cellular networks and still have a fairly decent experience. None of that is possible when you're dealing with latency at the display level, it's literally the last stop before the players' eyes, so every little network problem is front and center.

Basically, good luck trying to play a Stadia game on a lovely cellular network that would be able to play Fortnite just fine.

# ? Nov 24, 2019 01:15

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

tater_salad posted:

Heres a hot take

Stadia isn't as bad as every makes it sound.

I played destiny 2 (poorly) on a $99 💻 that got converted to a Chromebook. This laptop can not even stream properly from YouTube in full screen. I got about the same performance our of d2

I played on a laptop that could never play it while my kids streamed Netflix, I got good quality video and noticed some small hitches occasions but it wasn't unplayable.

I played on my 65" tv and it rules.

I played Sam sho and I suck at it like all fighting games and it felt lovely why would Google put fighting games on the platform it seems dumb but I so suck at it.

Edit:
Really my only gripe in my limited use is paying full price for RDR2 and the limited lineup. Honestly I'd like to see poo poo like 7d2die or some more chill strategy type games.

It�s not that bad, just the FPS got hitches that wouldn�t happen if I played locally, and the fighting game was unplayable. And the lineup sucks and the pricing is bad. But over all not that bad.

# ? Nov 24, 2019 01:15