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blizzardvizard posted:Sorry, I was being facetious, I assure you
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Dec 1, 2019 18:09
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Gynovore posted:In the 3.5 Monster Manual, Black Dragons are always Chaotic Evil. That's exactly what it says, "Always Chaotic Evil". So, from a strictly D&D point of view, V did a Good thing. The entirety of the comic and that arc specifically is a lot of going "Default D&D's alignment system is stupid and horrifying and justifies countless atrocities" and you still got idiots going "ACTUALLY TECHNICALLY IT WAS A GOOD THING SO THE CHARACTER ISN'T AN rear end in a top hat!!!!!!!" as the characters say "I will never make up for the pain I've caused." It's why most good settings instantly through all that poo poo into the garbage.
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Dec 1, 2019 18:17
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blizzardvizard posted:Sorry, I was being facetious, I assure you Ok, sorry-- it had been a long day.
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Dec 1, 2019 18:34
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And even with the only two black dragons we've seen in the strip, one was just defending his mom's home from armed intruders and the other was angry about the gratuitous slaughter of her son. The mom was very clearly "evil but with a good cause" like redcloak
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Dec 1, 2019 18:34
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Gynovore posted:In the 3.5 Monster Manual, Black Dragons are always Chaotic Evil. That's exactly what it says, "Always Chaotic Evil". So, from a strictly D&D point of view, V did a Good thing. 
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Dec 1, 2019 18:39
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Gynovore posted:In the 3.5 Monster Manual, Black Dragons are always Chaotic Evil. That's exactly what it says, "Always Chaotic Evil". So, from a strictly D&D point of view, V did a Good thing. Actually the 3.5 Monster Manual says Always means 99%
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Dec 1, 2019 19:06
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Every species has a Drizzt.
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Dec 1, 2019 19:14
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Clarste posted:Every species has a Drizzt. Sometimes, a species is made entirely of Drizzts and then four mean NPCs to provide backstory for the Drizzts.
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Dec 1, 2019 19:26
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Half-dragons are not exactly obscure secrets in the OotS world. A moment's thought would have told V there was a good chance many of the dragon's relatives would be near-enough humans under no compulsion to be evil. That they didn't give a moment's thought before committing an atrocity is a big indictment of V's character that they are trying to atone for.
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Dec 1, 2019 19:27
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Less than 24 hours and it’s alignment chat. Rich is ok..WE are not.
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Dec 1, 2019 19:38
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I propose that the good/evil and law/chaos axes be replaced with helpful/hinderance and friendly/dickish, as they are the only axes that really matter to the PC's. "Is this NPC going to be useful to our quest, and are they going to be a dick about it"
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Dec 1, 2019 19:52
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Would preemptively murdering some crotchety old man who’s probably going to call the guards if you do anything that he doesn’t like a morally just act under that alignment system, then? 
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Dec 1, 2019 20:32
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I'm trying to decouple the alignment system from morals entirely so I don't have to hear PC's claim that their relentless murderhobo-ing is definitely a Good action.
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Dec 1, 2019 20:48
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I've been running games without it for years and especially since 5e it hasn't caused any major issues.
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Dec 1, 2019 22:33
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Gynovore posted:Wait, V is canonically non-binary? I must have missed that. It hasn't been explicitly stated in the comic, but Burlew refers to V as genderqueer in author commentary in the books.
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Dec 1, 2019 22:58
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Tenebrais posted:Half-dragons are not exactly obscure secrets in the OotS world. A moment's thought would have told V there was a good chance many of the dragon's relatives would be near-enough humans under no compulsion to be evil. Yes, V felt that it should have been obvious when they found out.
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Dec 2, 2019 00:01
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Archyduchess posted:I've been running games without it for years and especially since 5e it hasn't caused any major issues. Sorry if this is off topic, but... 5th edition, awful or not awful?
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Dec 2, 2019 00:54
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Gynovore posted:Sorry if this is off topic, but... 5th edition, awful or not awful? Did you like 4th edition? If so, 5th edition rolled back all the positive changes and it sucks just as hard as 3.x did. Did you like 3.x edition? If so, you'd probably like 5th, I guess? edit: this reminded me once again that this comic got started around when 3.5 came out, and I've been reading it since then. Time is wild.
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Dec 2, 2019 00:56
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As someone who liked 3.5 and Pathfinder, I love 5e. It streamlined what needed to be streamlined; but kept the best aspects of 3.5e.
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Dec 2, 2019 01:54
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Gynovore posted:Sorry if this is off topic, but... 5th edition, awful or not awful? It's not at all perfect but it's easy to pick up and generally pretty flexible. I don't think it's the favorite system of anyone at my table but it's something we can all agree on, and if someone wants to drop in on a game there's a pretty good chance they know it too.
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Dec 2, 2019 02:27
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DontMockMySmock posted:Did you like 4th edition? If so, 5th edition rolled back all the positive changes and it sucks just as hard as 3.x did. Did you like 3.x edition? If so, you'd probably like 5th, I guess? Just the opposite, I thought 3/3.5 were great and 4e was putrid.
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Dec 2, 2019 02:29
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4e was a great collectible card game
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Dec 2, 2019 02:51
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Not to edition war too hard but I've literally never met anyone IRL who liked 4th edition, almost all praise I've seen for it ever has been on this forum. For me personally it was just sorta... bad but not egregiously so. Puffin Forest had a video recently that was unique so far as I know because his is the only perspective I've heard from someone who's first edition of D&D was 4th and *hated* it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpmUxfS4LF8 My group disliked it and after a few sessions decided to go back to Cortex. We came back in with 5th edition earlier this year and have been really enjoying it.
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Dec 2, 2019 02:53
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ArchRanger posted:Not to edition war too hard but I've literally never met anyone IRL who liked 4th edition, almost all praise I've seen for it ever has been on this forum. For me personally it was just sorta... bad but not egregiously so. I never got to play it but from reading the books I dug it. I couldn't get anyone on board to try it because one person played it at Origins the summer it came out, said it was bad, and that's all anyone cared about. Which was ridiculous because this was a guy who exclusively used Dragon Magazine articles to build ridiculous characters and the reason it was bad was "lack of customization" but it had only been out months at that point.
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Dec 2, 2019 03:10
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My group is a bunch of video gamers and people who hadn't played since 2nd edition. 5e makes a lot of sense to them just from the get go, and as the DM, the easier it is for them to understand the rules, the better it is for me.
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Dec 2, 2019 03:38
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John Wick of Dogs posted:4e was a great collectible card game 4e was a game, which was not what many fans wanted out of D&D.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:14
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ArchRanger posted:Not to edition war too hard but I've literally never met anyone IRL who liked 4th edition, almost all praise I've seen for it ever has been on this forum. For me personally it was just sorta... bad but not egregiously so. There’s more visceral bad blood built up over the 4e edition wars than any other iteration because the principal anti-4e arguments for a decade were bad-faith drastic misinterpretations created by 4chan shitposts and amplified by the internet being a much more widespread thing than in the 2-3 changeover. The simultaneous evolution of the strongest anti-4e voices into outright nazis, both on 4chan and among grognard pockets, sort of casts an extremely suspicious light on any 4e skeptics before they actually lay out why they think the way they do.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:17
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4e was the most fun I ever had playing D&D.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:20
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YggiDee posted:4e was the most fun I ever had playing D&D. Same
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Dec 2, 2019 05:22
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John Wick of Dogs posted:4e was a great collectible card game The rules for combat in 3.5 or 5 are fundamentally no different than in 4, but that fact is hidden by how unclearly everything is written.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:28
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Remember when 3.0 came out and people said they were ruining D&D by making it a table top Diablo game? Nerds have never ever changed. 3.X at least didn't have alleged sexual abuser Zak S as a consultant so it's got that over 5e. Mystic Mongol posted:The rules for combat in 3.5 or 5 are fundamentally no different than in 4, but that fact is hidden by how unclearly everything is written. People complained that it forced you to use minis and grids and those people have literally never read the 3.5 PHB cause it's got the same examples and maps with minis for combat explanations.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:29
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:People complained that it forced you to use minis and grids and those people have literally never read the 3.5 PHB cause it's got the same examples and maps with minis for combat explanations. 1e and the basic game before it both worked on the assumption that people would use minis or hex grids or whatever, but in my experience only the ultra grognards used them. EDIT: Although, I have occasionally seen mini setups so elaborate my jaw hit the floor, so maybe I've been missing out.
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Dec 2, 2019 05:45
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I loved 4e, and was prepared to hate 5e for rolling back all the actual fixes to 3e for the sake of idiotic nostalgia, but was pleasantly surprised. The biggest thing 5e fixed was in something called “bounded accuracy”. The basic numbers for stuff like AC and to hit stay reasonably near eachother, unlike 3e where the numbers for everything skyrocket as you increase levels. This also means that having 15 various stat enhancing magic items or buff spells on at all times is no longer necessary to participate in the game. So, imagine an alternate timeline where 4e never existed and 5e was made to fix 3e without using any of the actually good game design in 4e, and generally succeeds at being a playable dnd.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:18
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:People complained that it forced you to use minis and grids and those people have literally never read the 3.5 PHB cause it's got the same examples and maps with minis for combat explanations. That's kind of disingenuous. 4E players had vastly more options for manipulating enemy position, on practically every class in the game. 3.5E clearly wanted you to use a grid, and it made tracking combat positioning easier, but 4E took that poo poo to an entirely new level. That stuff was baked into just about every strata of it. Which, hey, that's fine. I'm pretty sure that was a driving factor in improving online tabletop solutions.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:21
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Cabbit posted:I'm pretty sure that was a driving factor in improving online tabletop solutions.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:25
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Schwarzwald posted:4e was a game, which was not what many fans wanted out of D&D. Every version of D&D has been a game; it's always been one of the worst RPGs at marrying the role-playing aspect with the game, as nearly everything the mechanics apply to are completely divorced from the role-playing, and those that aren't, like the social rules, are often tedious and I don't think I've ever seen a person actually use them as written. D&D's rules actively get in the way of and limit role-playing and storytelling, rather than assisting and enabling it.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:29
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YggiDee posted:4e was the most fun I ever had playing D&D.
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Dec 2, 2019 06:58
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I liked 4th edition, and I like 5th edition, too. However, I really miss how 4th edition made combat interesting for players even when it wasn't their turn. There were a metric ton of abilities that allowed players to act even on their friends' turns. 5th edition is back to the old way of "do your turn, then wait 15 minutes for it to be your turn again because the wizard has to figure out which of his 35 spells he wants to use this round, and, no, he will never learn to start planning that poo poo ahead of time..." Everything else about 5th edition is great.
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Dec 2, 2019 07:14
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get better wizards
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Dec 2, 2019 07:18
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Gynovore posted:Sorry if this is off topic, but... 5th edition, awful or not awful? It's very good, as someone who disliked 3 and loved 4.
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Dec 2, 2019 07:19
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