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Demiurge4 posted:Watching beagle play the game wasn’t very fun because it was obvious he just wanted to poo poo on the game instead of play it. He didn’t even poo poo on it in a funny way. This is how I felt watching his stream, it was making me cringe. I'm a huge fan of Firaxis' XCOMs but Phoenix Point has a lot of genuinely interesting things going on. In my opinion the free aim looks really badly implemented, but I think someone else in the thread mentioned that if it just had a severe cost it would suddenly become interesting. I'm going to wait the year until the Steam release and hopefully they can unify the design some more. I'm also just thinking I'll house-rule it to not use free aim. A lot of these crowdfunded games from old legends have me wishing they would draw down their scope in order to really hammer out a solid design.
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Dec 6, 2019 22:21
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Often Abbreviated posted:He doesn't really play it anymore - he was on a bit of a kick for a few streams recently but it was the first time in a year or more. His Xcom game is his own cobbled-together XCOM 2 modset Operators Vs Aliens which strips out a lot of your high-end abilities and free actions and tries to focus the game more on tough firefights. The early few streams of that were full of terrible situations going way out of control and were some fun watches, though it too kind of stabilised in the mid-game. I think he's restarting it again shortly after beefing up the aliens.
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Dec 6, 2019 22:41
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So... does stealth become an actual mechanic as you get further in or is it just a stat that doesn't practically mean anything?
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Dec 6, 2019 23:02
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Sylphosaurus posted:Sometimes it feels like Beagle has gone of the deep end since he barely seems to enjoy what he does anymore. I tried to watch him play his own heavily modded XCOM2 game but it was tuned in such a ridiculous fashion that pretty much only Beagle would like it. Shame really, since I had a lot of fun watching Beagle play vanilla XCOM so many years ago. Operators vs aliens was very fun to watch and good content. problem is he sometimes gets into this insufferable mode where he jumps from good legitimate complaints to just bitching about every pixel on the screen for the hell of it; one time this devolved into a rant about the weird number of decimal places on a number in a game’s options menu of all things, demanding “WHO DOES THIS” and so on over poo poo that shouldn’t warrant more than an eyebrow raise. I’ve enjoyed watching him for years but even as someone who complains about things more than I should, poo poo like his reaction to phoenix point has become uncomfortable to watch.
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Dec 6, 2019 23:13
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I generally don't get too pissed off at terrible design, but what the ever loving gently caress were the developers thinking with zoom? You scroll up to zoom out (which is backwards to the standard for this style) in tactical maps but scroll down to zoom out in the Geoscape? How did no one figure out they should at least make it consistent?
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Dec 6, 2019 23:14
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:Operators vs aliens was very fun to watch and good content. I'm pretty sure his harping on Phoenix Point is just born of immense disappointment. Like, he played all the backer builds, was obviously really interested in the game, and then saw none of his issues with it get addressed. He was never gonna be happy though because his biggest problem with it is the FPS aiming. He raised legitimate points but was obviously just venting a lot. I don't think the game is nearly as bad as he made it out to be, but it is super mediocre right now. It might be a bit of fun but why learn a clunky new game with poor presentation when I could just play some more WOTC? My hope is that in a year it might actually be worth playing and I can just pick it up on steam.
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Dec 6, 2019 23:26
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nessin posted:I generally don't get too pissed off at terrible design, but what the ever loving gently caress were the developers thinking with zoom? You scroll up to zoom out (which is backwards to the standard for this style) in tactical maps but scroll down to zoom out in the Geoscape? How did no one figure out they should at least make it consistent? Mouse wheel in tactical is for changing levels. T and G are for zooming.
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Dec 6, 2019 23:27
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Pharmaskittle posted:Mouse wheel in tactical is for changing levels. T and G are for zooming. I'm not sure how having the same function under different binds is somehow more consistent? That's even ignoring changing levels in a tactical map gives you a zoom like effect making it even more confusing. Edit: And mouse wheel will zoom while aiming, just to add more WTF decision making to the fire. nessin fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Dec 6, 2019 |
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Dec 6, 2019 23:38
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Internet Kraken posted:I'm pretty sure his harping on Phoenix Point is just born of immense disappointment. Like, he played all the backer builds, was obviously really interested in the game, and then saw none of his issues with it get addressed. He was never gonna be happy though because his biggest problem with it is the FPS aiming. But as someone who's played a lot of FPS games over the years, I have to say that the manual aiming in this game is nothing like that, and the notion that there's some sort of twitch skill involved is just wrong. In PP you have all the time you need to line your shots up exactly the way you want them, and the system doesn't seem any harder to work with than XCOM's grenades.
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Dec 6, 2019 23:40
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Wish there was manual aim for grenade tosses. I wanna fastball a grenade into an alien cloaca. Or at least through a window/door.
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Dec 6, 2019 23:58
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Back Hack posted:Watching a stream of the game now, I'm already seeing a couple quality of life features the new XCOM did that this game purposely ignored: It sort of auto-loots and it sort of auto-replenishes. The "sort of" part is the problem. It loots all the boxes automatically but it doesn't loot items enemies dropped. It replenishes ammo in your inventory almost all the time and ammo in your gun some of the time. Both of those are obviously very problematic and hopefully on the list of fixes until real launch in a year.
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Dec 7, 2019 00:01
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Alchenar posted:So... does stealth become an actual mechanic as you get further in or is it just a stat that doesn't practically mean anything? It can be good. Infiltrators with Heavys level 7 skill for instance would be the ultimate single unit eraser. Guys in official disc say you can get within like 4 tiles of most guys aside from the Double Perception tritons.
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Dec 7, 2019 00:06
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If you have ammo available for a gun it'll auto-restock your dude. If you don't it won't make ammo for you but will instead ask if you want it to in case you have other plans for your resources. It won't ask if your gun is partially loaded and you don't have ammo. In which case you need to go to the equipment screen and click the ammo button. This is fine with ammo as those are instant builds. But grenades take 7ish hours to make one grenade so it's sort of irritating. They should have cribbed from new XCOM for ammo and grenades as it's just needless busy work and ammo/grenades are cheap enough that I can't conceive of a time you wouldn't want to or be able to make new ammo. And if you are so strapped for resources that you can't afford bullets then, my friend, you have more pressing concerns. The fact that I can't run up to an enemy human, paralyze him and then strip him of his armor and guns is loving annoying as poo poo. Lets go old school xcom and let me backpack out aliens (alive or dead) and also strip gear from corpses. Lexorin fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 00:06
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Ersatz posted:But as someone who's played a lot of FPS games over the years, I have to say that the manual aiming in this game is nothing like that, and the notion that there's some sort of twitch skill involved is just wrong. In PP you have all the time you need to line your shots up exactly the way you want them, and the system doesn't seem any harder to work with than XCOM's grenades. The other annoying thing is that it doesn't show you when part of the circle is obscured by terrain, so for example you zoom in and it shows the circles completely over the enemy but when you actually fire you hit your own cover because whoops in reality a third of the 'aim cone' was intersecting it.
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Dec 7, 2019 00:34
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Ersatz posted:The "FPS aiming" complaint is kind of a weird one. I totally get the notion that "puppeting" soldiers takes some of the fun out by breaking immersion. In that regard I agree with Beaglerush. I don't think anyone thinks the aiming is anything like an actual FPS game, its just called that because of the first person perspective switch.
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Dec 7, 2019 00:36
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RBA Starblade posted:You missed the sectoid at close range huh No. I'm saying there should not be hit bonuses for flanking. Also I play openxcom extended (with cqc) so that complaint isn't relevant to me. Also close quarters with a gun in their face shouldn't guarantee a hit. Just like IRL. Police bodycam videos are excellent examples of this.
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Dec 7, 2019 01:09
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Back Hack posted:Watching a stream of the game now, I'm already seeing a couple quality of life features the new XCOM did that this game purposely ignored: This is inexcusable. Worse: You have to min-max med kit usage before a mission ends. Otherwise your guys will just leave squirting blood all over the place.
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Dec 7, 2019 01:45
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Armadillo Tank posted:No. I'm saying there should not be hit bonuses for flanking. Also I play openxcom extended (with cqc) so that complaint isn't relevant to me. Flanking is a tactical decision. Do you risk moving to a new area to tank an enemy that may trigger a new pod? If so, how exactly do I flank this enemy? Huh, there is an alien on over watch, do I have someone who can run or avoid the over watch or do I risk it?
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Dec 7, 2019 01:46
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Armadillo Tank posted:This is inexcusable. Worse: You have to min-max med kit usage before a mission ends. Otherwise your guys will just leave squirting blood all over the place. 
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Dec 7, 2019 01:52
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Armadillo Tank posted:Also close quarters with a gun in their face shouldn't guarantee a hit. Just like IRL. Police bodycam videos are excellent examples of this. You take that back, heroic officers today in Florida just managed to make FOUR successful kills in a heated CQB engagement against just TWO armed criminals.
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Dec 7, 2019 02:32
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Scut posted:You take that back, heroic officers today in Florida just managed to make FOUR successful kills in a heated CQB engagement against just TWO armed criminals. The ballad of Cow Patti: Forty shots rang out. Forty people fell. Patti and the killer missed each other but they shot that town to Hell.
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Dec 7, 2019 02:59
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Bruceski posted:The ballad of Cow Patti: I know what I'm naming my next vehicle in a Brigador session.
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Dec 7, 2019 03:11
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I think maybe dash needs to be fixed because I just beat a steal research mission with one dude on the first turn.
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Dec 7, 2019 04:19
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Also beagle did pretty much end up going into the nitty details and broke the game down to where its weakest with the aiming system https://youtu.be/9Lb_MQLwa-k?t=13672 You cant have that happen honestly
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Dec 7, 2019 05:07
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boredsatellite posted:Also beagle did pretty much end up going into the nitty details and broke the game down to where its weakest with the aiming system In defense of this game, its not like Xcom 1 & 2 don't have there own janky instances of the game saying one thing and then it not being true. T
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Dec 7, 2019 05:42
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Definitely, I played vanilla xcom and had to relaunch games due to movement bugs and other dumb stuff but like with free aim being touted so hard in this game stuff like this is in a way more game breaking because no amount of reloads can make this better until a patch happens
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Dec 7, 2019 05:55
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I think the consensus is pretty clear that the game's got some jank, it's just down to personal preference whether it's jank worth dealing with.
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Dec 7, 2019 06:12
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boredsatellite posted:Also beagle did pretty much end up going into the nitty details and broke the game down to where its weakest with the aiming system In that example he could have fired anyway and only lost one round to destroying his "cover". Cover really isn't that great if it's destructible because most of it has so few HP that it'll block one bullet at best and then your dude eats the rest of the burst. On the other hand, I agree that that poo poo is really loving annoying.
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Dec 7, 2019 06:22
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Section Z posted:Wacky poo poo like this is probably the sort of thing a certain brand of gamer will complain makes the game "More casual" if they fix it, too I bailed earlier today when I had to move everyone from my not-Skyranger to my base to recover manually. It's just pointless busywork.
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Dec 7, 2019 06:28
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Alchenar posted:So... does stealth become an actual mechanic as you get further in or is it just a stat that doesn't practically mean anything? It's not useless, I did a research raid on Jericho by having a stealthed dude just run past without being spotted and hitting up the spots needed. I'm not sold as to its utility for actual combat though. I have to say I think I was hasty in my judgment, I've been playing the game all day today and having a very good time. Not a great time, true, and there are flaws that range from minor to glaring, but what's going on here is much more engaging than I was thinking for a minute there. e; Christ almighty I wish I had some way to deal with Fury launchers though, space marines are tough enough but once they start firing those off all my poo poo gets wrecked in a hurry. Other than popping the launchers themselves I mean, can't always get the angle/hit/damage needed. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 06:40
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I've always felt XCOM was kinda bland but executed reasonably well and this game is basically the opposite, with a dash of needs more content (although I'm not at the end game so I don't know what else may unlock). I'd take the cast of enemies in Phoenix Point over XCOM any day of the week and the special weapons look interesting but feel really flat (class skills look and feel flat at least) so it ultimately feels less interesting than XCOM. Ignoring the visuals I like the spread bases and the point of interest system but after several hours it starts to feel tedious and even like too much micromanagement with multiple craft. I really want to play a game with the theme and concepts of Phoenix Point but XCOM 2 gameplay.
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Dec 7, 2019 07:19
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Yeah if nothing else there's some great art direction with the enemies, like holy poo poo Sirens are hosed up and it rules
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Dec 7, 2019 07:32
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I bailed earlier today when I had to move everyone from my not-Skyranger to my base to recover manually. It's just pointless busywork. That's not how it is in PP, soldiers heal just fine while assigned to their aircraft. Besides the obvious jank I'm still enjoying the game, the thing that makes me angry most often is just simply the launchers they get, one alien can just ruin your squad's day from long range with 100% accuracy, unless some miracle tree branch gets in the flight path. Goodchild fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 07:42
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Ugly In The Morning posted:I bailed earlier today when I had to move everyone from my not-Skyranger to my base to recover manually. No you don't.
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Dec 7, 2019 08:01
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Goodchild posted:That's not how it is in PP, soldiers heal just fine while assigned to their aircraft. If you want your soldiers to heal while you're doing something else with the expensive aircraft, you have to manually gently caress with rosters constantly.
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Dec 7, 2019 08:14
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I always map a bunch of controls to my mouse (rotate camera, etc.) so that I can easily play the game without the keyboard, but this game doesn't let me remap the goddamn controls  . That is my biggest beef right now.boredsatellite posted:Also beagle did pretty much end up going into the nitty details and broke the game down to where its weakest with the aiming system This is annoying, but the guy complaining about it is really cringey, even by YouTuber standards.
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Dec 7, 2019 08:44
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Beagle has gone a bit off the rails so I watch jorbs these days for my strategy game streamer fix. He's usually pretty upbeat and enjoyable to listen to. Mostly plays Slay the Spire but he's been playing some XCOM and Phoenix Point here and there.
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Dec 7, 2019 09:08
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It feels like they took a list of what XCOM did, then did the opposite of what was good, then vice verse for the bad. I think in a year it will be good, but it still feels like an early access game. It’s kinda disappointing because I like the world setting, and the enemy style.
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Dec 7, 2019 11:04
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boredsatellite posted:Also beagle did pretty much end up going into the nitty details and broke the game down to where its weakest with the aiming system This literally happens in XCOM 1 and XCOM 2 all the time.
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Dec 7, 2019 11:36
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I restarted my legend run on a whim and man I was really lucky in my first run. In my second run I started in South America and it seems half of the POI are ambushes and at one point I nearly ran out of material to make ammo. I was also not able to find any nest until December, in fact by the time I found my first nest it already evolved into a lair. I also found another way to play heavy is to just run up and clubber enemy with your heavy weapon which can do +100 damage and daze with 25% TU, once you dual class into assault you can just dash around between enemy and chain kill everything. Assault is just such a versatile class, great synergy with both sniper and heavy. I haven't try to do heavy sniper yet, but I imagine with +accuracy gear and master marksman perhaps the HEL cannon can be fairly serviceable at even long range. pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Dec 7, 2019 |
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Dec 7, 2019 12:29
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