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Killing Floor shows the perils of not designing for VS from the start. I can't imagine Vermintide will be better.
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Dec 18, 2019 23:06
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The way that Vermintide specials work means they can't do a 1:1 transfer ala Left 4 Dead. The huge focus on melee combat and damage soaking bruisers like Chaos Warriors akd Marauders would make for very boring vs play. The specials that most closely resemble L4D (gutter runner/hunters, globadier/boomers and spitters, and hook rats/smokers) still wouldn't work the same because the L4D specials rely on ambush while the Skaven specials rely on distractions and hordes to be effective. I just don't see a way to make Skaven and chaos gameplay fun for players.
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Dec 18, 2019 23:33
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Arcsquad12 posted:The way that Vermintide specials work means they can't do a 1:1 transfer ala Left 4 Dead. The huge focus on melee combat and damage soaking bruisers like Chaos Warriors akd Marauders would make for very boring vs play. Sorry, you don't want to make four people miserable as a chaos sorcerer? I see a way to make it work, I hide on the other side of the map and piss them with a giant green tornado every 20 seconds
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Dec 18, 2019 23:52
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There is enough bullshit to deal with before you throw enemy players into the mix. The enemy players wouldn't even get to kill the heroes because the broken spawning system means that the thirty plague monks who appeared out of thin air will drop them all while the Skaven players are respawning.
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Dec 18, 2019 23:56
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Two teams playing the map as normal, but whenever you kill a rat it appears in a spawn point on the other team's map.
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Dec 19, 2019 00:05
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Arcsquad12 posted:Is it just a remaster of the Castle Drachenfels map or is there more to it? i watched clips of vt1 drachenfels and unless im really offbase, i barely recognize from them in the current vt2 mission. in vt2 there was a cliffside, then town, then you go into a temple, underground, then you find gargoyle heads and stick them onto statues, fall down a hole, then tunnels full of nurgle buboes and plague monks until you get back up top to the exit beacon iirc
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Dec 19, 2019 02:26
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toasterwarrior posted:i watched clips of vt1 drachenfels and unless im really offbase, i barely recognize from them in the current vt2 mission. in vt2 there was a cliffside, then town, then you go into a temple, underground, then you find gargoyle heads and stick them onto statues, fall down a hole, then tunnels full of nurgle buboes and plague monks until you get back up top to the exit beacon iirc I don't remember the town or the nurgle buboes/plague monks, but otherwise that sounds like Drachenfels yeah.
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Dec 19, 2019 04:10
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Watching MilkandcookiesTW's video and it looks like it's a brand new map, not a remaster of the old ones. Part of it appears to be reused bits of the mountaintop map where you had to blow up a miniature version of the Skittergate, but the rest looks brand new. So what are the odds that it's a timed map and we'll never get to play it again after it runs out? Just like the anniversary pub crawl map. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Dec 19, 2019 06:57
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VS Mode where you play as the Rats sounds fun to me.
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Dec 19, 2019 08:50
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Mystic Mongol posted:Two teams playing the map as normal, but whenever you kill a rat it appears in a spawn point on the other team's map. This sounds like an absolute nightmare lol
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Dec 19, 2019 09:11
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They should release all the maps and variants they've sat on for temp events (pub crawl, night versions) waaaay before they even think about doing VS, maybe even consider porting more of the great VT1 maps over, but lol 
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Dec 19, 2019 13:03
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MonsterEnvy posted:VS Mode where you play as the Rats sounds fun to me. Same. I don't care if it's balanced or whatever. Only ever played LFD vs mode with friends and those were some of the best gaming moments ever.
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Dec 19, 2019 14:38
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the fun* of an invisible blightstormer casting through a pinhole-sized gap in terrain from outside spotting range, except four of them are doing it at once
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Dec 19, 2019 15:57
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Anybody ever play Zombie Master? It was an HL2 mod where one team is a bunch of people trying to fight their way through a dangerous place, achieve objectives, that kind of thing, while one player, the ZM, has a slowly increasing resource that can be spent spawning in zombies, traps, and monsters. I think you could adapt that to Vermintide pretty well- have a certain baseline horde spawning level and let a Warlord control additional horses, elites, and the like.
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Dec 19, 2019 17:29
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Pope Guilty posted:Anybody ever play Zombie Master? It was an HL2 mod where one team is a bunch of people trying to fight their way through a dangerous place, achieve objectives, that kind of thing, while one player, the ZM, has a slowly increasing resource that can be spent spawning in zombies, traps, and monsters. I think you could adapt that to Vermintide pretty well- have a certain baseline horde spawning level and let a Warlord control additional horses, elites, and the like. I loved that game mode. You had an RTS-style view over the map and you could get pretty creative with monster/special spawns. I think there was even a standalone game created that pretty much lifted the idea, but it never really took off.
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Dec 19, 2019 18:54
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Pope Guilty posted:and let a Warlord control additional horses, elites, and the like. I unironically want a horsemaster DM in this game
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Dec 19, 2019 18:58
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You could hypothetically make a good form of versus for vermintide if it was indirect and focused on influencing the (still AI-controlled) challenge the other players faced, ideally as some kind of 8-player competitive co-op mode like gambit from destiny, just with more indirect fuckery instead of physical invasions. trying to do L4D versus where players exist synchronously in the same world would be an utter disaster for too many reasons to list. more importantly, the success of any kind of versus would depend on fatshark still being a company that was capable of fixing a single bug that ruins the foundations of the game after a solid year and a half of attempts to fix it, but they’re not there anymore.
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Dec 19, 2019 19:14
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Pope Guilty posted:Anybody ever play Zombie Master? It was an HL2 mod where one team is a bunch of people trying to fight their way through a dangerous place, achieve objectives, that kind of thing, while one player, the ZM, has a slowly increasing resource that can be spent spawning in zombies, traps, and monsters. I think you could adapt that to Vermintide pretty well- have a certain baseline horde spawning level and let a Warlord control additional horses, elites, and the like. I played a map on Zombie Master where the ZM dropped giant Tetris blocks on people it was pretty fun for all of the one map it was created for
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Dec 19, 2019 19:36
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Pope Guilty posted:Anybody ever play Zombie Master? It was an HL2 mod where one team is a bunch of people trying to fight their way through a dangerous place, achieve objectives, that kind of thing, while one player, the ZM, has a slowly increasing resource that can be spent spawning in zombies, traps, and monsters. I think you could adapt that to Vermintide pretty well- have a certain baseline horde spawning level and let a Warlord control additional horses, elites, and the like. I played that mod and it was loving rad. Iirc they got really unlucky with the timing of it and abandoned it about a year before culture decided zombies were cool again and must be everywhere at all times
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Dec 19, 2019 19:46
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Hey wouldn't it be awesome to have a weekly event where one of the players isn't allowed to play the game
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Dec 26, 2019 18:39
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https://i.imgur.com/KwYMA1O.mp4
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Jan 2, 2020 01:54
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rat year...
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Jan 2, 2020 03:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiDZToowbCs Great Horned Rat Day
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Jan 2, 2020 05:23
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This guy we play DRG with bought the game on sale so i'm reinstalling it to show him the ropes and explain why it's a terrible game and why we all uninstalled it in the first place haha. My friend who quit before me was getting all optimistic about all the changes until i brought up everything could be broken or host only and he'd never know. You could have a HP threshhold you'd never knew you hit, things could not stack so you've just wasted a talent. I then hit him with the fact that there hasn't been new cosmetics since launch not counting the new colored skins. Gonna regret reinstalling because then i'll just get mad all over again at all the potential FS threw down the loving drain. Fucks sake we still don't have the loving shrine to reroll individual stats.
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Jan 9, 2020 09:05
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What ended up turning me off was, I guess, the lack of a sense of progress or competition. Once you've done all the maps a few times there's not really any reason to keep building your character except to do harder versions of the same maps, for which your reward is harder versions of the same maps. And I don't need every game to have meaningful progression, but like, I probably wouldn't have played Left 4 Dead / L4D2 nearly as long as I did if not for the extremely good Vs mode and a consistent group to play with once a week.
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Jan 9, 2020 15:27
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I enjoyed doing that stuff in Ratfight 1 because playing the game was more of its own reward, since there was a lot more consistency to what did what and thus the gameplay was more about technique. I have hundreds of hours in Ratfight 1 post getting all the gear I wanted because I was really enjoying using that gear or practicing with new weapons or learning new characters. The extra options in 2 actually make that less fun since you can't quite 'learn' a weapon the same way; how many rats does the glaive cleave per swing? It depends on your Power and if you're hitting rats or marauders or whatever. Back in ratfight 1, you knew exactly how many rats each swing would take out or wound. I still enjoyed 2 overall, just I feel a lot less urge to go back and play it after 'finishing' it and maxing the characters and stuff. It still has strategy and the base combat is still fun, there's just a bunch of stuff that makes it much less tightly designed and thus less fun to do after your numbers are already as high as you want.
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Jan 9, 2020 15:35
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I've played a bit and the stagger changes have really hosed over most of Kruber's weapons. Mercenary has gone from his clutch class to pretty terrible overall. Sure he can cleave through more opponents but the stagger mechanic means half of those hit by the extra cleave barely take any damage. The only reliable weapons he now has are the greatsword, executioner's sword and the one handed mace. The GS has needed to be buffed for over a year but not at the cost of all his other weapons being rendered useless for crowd control or special killing. Because his weapons suck so much more, the Huntsman class has become his new top tier since it has a reliable way to get critical hits and actually do some damage. Plus killing monsters renders him a 30% damage reduction so he's nearly as tanky as Knight Kruber. But he's still a worse shot than the elf and nowhere near the DPS murder machines that are Bardin or Salty players.
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Jan 10, 2020 22:12
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Wait is there a 3rd NPC in the keep? Lohner was talking to someone that didn't sound like olsyea and i can't find anyone else.
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Jan 10, 2020 22:55
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Arghy posted:Wait is there a 3rd NPC in the keep? Lohner was talking to someone that didn't sound like olsyea and i can't find anyone else. The painter hates heroes and only comes out when they’re away.
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Jan 10, 2020 23:24
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Arcsquad12 posted:I've played a bit and the stagger changes have really hosed over most of Kruber's weapons. Mercenary has gone from his clutch class to pretty terrible overall. Sure he can cleave through more opponents but the stagger mechanic means half of those hit by the extra cleave barely take any damage. The only reliable weapons he now has are the greatsword, executioner's sword and the one handed mace. The GS has needed to be buffed for over a year but not at the cost of all his other weapons being rendered useless for crowd control or special killing. Merc Kruber is still amazing with the spear. Unless they've changed things in the last couple months, in November I was reliably clearing legend with him and often being the difference in matches. With the right build the spear absolutely shreds hordes and you can block all day with the high stam you should have on it. You're a virtually never ending stagger machine for everyone else too. The fact you can run around at normal speed with the full charge up too is great for head shotting elites. Add to that the merc's usual bag of tricks and he's still my favourite right now.
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Jan 11, 2020 14:56
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Is stagger only in cata? We played on champ after like what nearly 1 year of not playing and didn't notice any difference at all. If anything champ was easier than ever though they did unbind special spawns so we wiped to 7 specials at once which was loving silly as poo poo. We're gonna try legend and see if we notice a difference but so far i haven't noticed stagger at all.
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Jan 11, 2020 23:01
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Wut, is going on in this game. We ran our DRG friend in recruit to level him up and met multiple lv20+ in recruit then we went to veteran and encountered a lv35 who's been playing for a long time. I then discover the guy who i've been playing with since beta hasn't leveled up his other chars beyond lv20 and we've been playing with those careers as bots for loving ages.
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Jan 13, 2020 20:15
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Higher levels in recruit/vet just want to feel like gods killing rats without having to think about it, its fairly fun and relaxing and the best part is the game doesn't start feeling broken till the later difficulty levels who cares about bullshit when it only does 10 damage and you have a million health kits.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:03
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It's good fun up to Champion but the game gets way more punishing on legend and the player quality drops like a rock due to the game bitchslapping you for mistakes. And this is before you factor in the ridiculous spawning system where it's like the L4D AI director on crack.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:28
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Sphrin posted:Higher levels in recruit/vet just want to feel like gods killing rats without having to think about it, its fairly fun and relaxing and the best part is the game doesn't start feeling broken till the later difficulty levels who cares about bullshit when it only does 10 damage and you have a million health kits. Also being able to slap five thousand rats in a single swing is nice.
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Jan 14, 2020 03:33
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I sometimes play lowbie games because it's fun to carry newbs.
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Jan 14, 2020 04:19
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I mean veteran is just as breezy and if you wanna help people that's the perfect place. We already had a lv35 zealot role playing an elf which was amazing because i was shade and i took the grim because he kept going down haha--this was on veteran too. It was awesome explaining what, 'an elf' meant to my friend who just started and lo an elf joins, grabs some art and will not tell the rest of the team where he found it. He was totally responsive but he just didn't wanna tell everyone where he found the art even when i explained it to him that it was per player so he lost nothing showing us where it was. I''m now stuck as elf every time we play just to block the goddamn elf mains.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:58
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Arghy posted:I''m now stuck as elf every time we play just to block the goddamn elf mains. vermintide.txt
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Jan 14, 2020 08:26
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It’s actually less frustrating overall playing cata as the bar to entry precludes a lot of the idiots you find in legend
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Jan 14, 2020 12:29
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I was lucky that a friend of mine really liked elf and is also good at games, so having to deal with idiot elf players has been minimal for me.
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Jan 14, 2020 13:42
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