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The Cameo posted:
Royalty in SW isn't that stringent. Padme was a queen because she was elected, and leia was a princess because she was adopted
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Dec 26, 2019 10:01
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the one thing that confuses me is making a good action movie isn't hard because they literally have formulas for what works, so my hot take is the movie was intentionally bad because Disney wants to kill Star Wars - now that they've analyzed its success they can discard its bloated corpse to create their own space opera IP that is 100% geared towards merch sales, even more than the star war. anyway quote me on this and let me know in like 6 years if I was right
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Dec 26, 2019 10:10
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Know what the real problem is? No more musical numbers, not a single one since Return and only Laptio Nek counts
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Dec 26, 2019 10:40
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Pyrus Malus posted:the one thing that confuses me is making a good action movie isn't hard because they literally have formulas for what works, so my hot take is the movie was intentionally bad because Disney wants to kill Star Wars - now that they've analyzed its success they can discard its bloated corpse to create their own space opera IP that is 100% geared towards merch sales, even more than the star war. John Carter's gonna smash the box office this time, I just know it.
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Dec 26, 2019 10:45
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Pyrus Malus posted:the one thing that confuses me is making a good action movie isn't hard because they literally have formulas for what works, so my hot take is the movie was intentionally bad because Disney wants to kill Star Wars - now that they've analyzed its success they can discard its bloated corpse to create their own space opera IP that is 100% geared towards merch sales, even more than the star war. You say that like Star Wars wasn't already 100% geared towards merch sales. They're too cowardly to try new things and too dumb to get the old things right.
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Dec 26, 2019 11:53
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If the prequels didn't kill Star Wars, this isn't going to either. Yeah a lot of people feel like Star Wars isn't special anymore, but most of us are probably still going to watch the next movie anyway, just as tons of people with Marvel movie fatigue still watch Marvel movies. That said, I don't feel any particular emotional attachment to any of the new characters, and I doubt I'm alone in that, so losing the ability to throw OT characters into the trailers to make people wonder what they're up to presumably won't help (unless they get truly desperate and actually reboot the series). I just think there will always be tons and tons of people looking for any kind of 'this one's good, I swear' word of mouth to drag them back onboard, no matter how many bad movies come out before then.
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Dec 26, 2019 13:48
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Sinteres posted:If the prequels didn't kill Star Wars, this isn't going to either. Yeah a lot of people feel like Star Wars isn't special anymore, but most of us are probably still going to watch the next movie anyway, just as tons of people with Marvel movie fatigue still watch Marvel movies. That said, I don't feel any particular emotional attachment to any of the new characters, and I doubt I'm alone in that, so losing the ability to throw OT characters into the trailers to make people wonder what they're up to presumably won't help (unless they get truly desperate and actually reboot the series). I just think there will always be tons and tons of people looking for any kind of 'this one's good, I swear' word of mouth to drag them back onboard, no matter how many bad movies come out before then. Ah, like Sonic the Hedgehog.
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Dec 26, 2019 13:51
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They will just do another lower budget fanservice as gently caress series on Disney+ and a Feige-produced 3hr movie that is 30% xwings 30%alien babies and 40% horrible quips that is going to make 4 billion dollars and an ungodly amount of merch money
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Dec 26, 2019 13:57
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In five to ten years, we’ll probably look at this trilogy with rose colored glasses the same way we’re currently looking at the prequels.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:06
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I kinda wonder if doing more television/stuff like Clone Wars might be good for Star Wars. It feels like the lesser budget and longer run time lets them poke at stuff a bit more and expand out a bit.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:07
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Ghost Leviathan posted:You say that like Star Wars wasn't already 100% geared towards merch sales. Star Wars was pulled from the mind of a man in the 70s, so inherently it's flawed as a merchandising tool. Ityool 2019 and beyond, in these days of marketing directors understanding perfectly how to squeeze out every last cent via recursive pavlovian conditioning inserted into every single form of media, a machine learning algorithm sometime in the future will create the perfect intellectual property that will doom humanity to a disney-dominated dystopian culture based entirely around maximizing profit for the mouse and his goons. We can't even fathom what they have in store for us.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:07
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Pyrus Malus posted:Star Wars was pulled from the mind of a man in the 70s, so inherently it's flawed as a merchandising tool. Ityool 2019 and beyond, in these days of marketing directors understanding perfectly how to squeeze out every last cent via recursive pavlovian conditioning inserted into every single form of media, a machine learning algorithm sometime in the future will create the perfect intellectual property that will doom humanity to a disney-dominated dystopian culture based entirely around maximizing profit for the mouse and his goons. Do they, though Pretty much every indication is in late capitalism every company is run by cocaine addled sociopaths who have no understanding of base humanity and are doing whatever random poo poo works with the numbers that marketing makes up, and routinely completely blindsided by something from out of left field that's allowed to be creative.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:09
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Pyrus Malus posted:Star Wars was pulled from the mind of a man in the 70s, so inherently it's flawed as a merchandising tool. Ityool 2019 and beyond, in these days of marketing directors understanding perfectly how to squeeze out every last cent via recursive pavlovian conditioning inserted into every single form of media, a machine learning algorithm sometime in the future will create the perfect intellectual property that will doom humanity to a disney-dominated dystopian culture based entirely around maximizing profit for the mouse and his goons. I think you're way off here. Nothing sells merchandise like growing up giving a poo poo about something, because not only will adults spend shitloads of money on the stuff, but they'll do their best to introduce their kids to it. If people could capture lightning in a bottle like that at will, Marvel movies wouldn't be crushing everything else in Hollywood.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:21
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Pollyanna posted:Let's talk about good Star Wars stuff that isn't the sequels. Despite the garbage that is Rise of Skywalker, I still want to like this franchise. I'm already watching Mandalorian, but that's ending soon (the first season, I mean). I heard that Rebels is good? I really like Dark Horse Comics' run. Specifically, Tales of the Jedi and KOTOR. But it's all great. Before the ST and Disney sale when we didn't think we'd get anymore new non-EU content, I was prepared to go forward with this franchise with just the comics alone and was kinda like "Fair enough! At least this is still a visual medium!" because they were that good. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 14:22
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Sinteres posted:I think you're way off here. Nothing sells merchandise like growing up giving a poo poo about something, because not only will adults spend shitloads of money on the stuff, but they'll do their best to introduce their kids to it. If people could capture lightning in a bottle like that at will, Marvel movies wouldn't be crushing everything else in Hollywood. Yeah okay, doomsday prediction aside this is a good and fair point. Both Star Wars and Marvel have these vague notions of childhood associated with them that is difficult to recreate with a new IP. Y'all know they've got genetically modified disney scientists in a lab 24/7 trying to figure out how to do it though.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:25
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Pyrus Malus posted:the one thing that confuses me is making a good action movie isn't hard because they literally have formulas for what works, so my hot take is the movie was intentionally bad because Disney wants to kill Star Wars - now that they've analyzed its success they can discard its bloated corpse to create their own space opera IP that is 100% geared towards merch sales, even more than the star war. I think the series is for sure going to look entirely different going forward and probably be a lot more stupid and vanilla. This was an experiment to see if dumbing-it-down is something they'll get called out for (By the critics....not necessarily from your rank and file fans it seems!). Rey being basically a superhero now, and likely going off to fight other space wizard super villains, is just Disney sticking to what they "know" instead of space opera, which they really don't. Watched the movie again and loving WOOOOF. It's actually bad and I apologize for saying it wasn't. Like, this had to be this bad on purpose.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:31
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Pyrus Malus posted:Yeah okay, doomsday prediction aside this is a good and fair point. Both Star Wars and Marvel have these vague notions of childhood associated with them that is difficult to recreate with a new IP. And they're going to loving suck at it. Thing is with the scientist analogy is that science requires taking risks and trying new things and stuff you don't already do to see what happens, which Disney is pathologically averse to on anywhere near the scale required to get useful data. Despite having far more than enough money to release B-sides and experimental poo poo that breaks the mould as well as their tried and true cash cows, late capitalism means everything needs to make all the money all the time and can't be allowed the possibility of failure, so it's over-managed to the point where it can't succeed. Like the whole thing with the MCU is that they bought a huge trove of ideas and formulas that they hadn't already done to death, and didn't really bring anything new to them other than take advantage of things that had already been proven to work in comics- and it turns out if you don't do those things without being desperately ashamed of being a superhero movie you make the big bucks because it's fun trash designed to appeal to all ages. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 14:41
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Cartoon Man posted:In five to ten years, we’ll probably look at this trilogy with rose colored glasses the same way we’re currently looking at the prequels. well, i won't speak for anyone else, but my opinion of every single one of the movies has been consistent thus far. i will fully admit to preferring the prequels over the new trilogy, but it has always been the case. the prequels have problems light years long, no doubt about that. but i've always felt they were more imaginative, interesting, and just plain entertaining, than anything in the new OT. after watching every movie in the prequels, i, like many, bitched about them for countless hours. and yet, the one thing that i can say in their favor is that i felt i could still watch them on repeated viewings. with the exceptions of a few scenes in TLJ, i have absolutely no interest in ever seeing the disney SW films ever again.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:43
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Sinteres posted:I think you're way off here. Nothing sells merchandise like growing up giving a poo poo about something, because not only will adults spend shitloads of money on the stuff, but they'll do their best to introduce their kids to it. If people could capture lightning in a bottle like that at will, Marvel movies wouldn't be crushing everything else in Hollywood. I kinda wonder how many of those kids will grow up and completely reject whatever nerd stuff their parents try and force on them. I know a number of people who have based their entire identity around their love of nerd IPs and they've had kids and they just swaddle them in Star Wars blankets and video game things and it's makes me feel really uneasy. I am by no means saying that they're bad parents (I don't know and don't care) but when your kid is a 10 day old infant and their crib is covered in porgs and R2D2 plushies I wonder what that child is going to grow up and be like.
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Dec 26, 2019 14:56
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:I kinda wonder how many of those kids will grow up and completely reject whatever nerd stuff their parents try and force on them. I know a number of people who have based their entire identity around their love of nerd IPs and they've had kids and they just swaddle them in Star Wars blankets and video game things and it's makes me feel really uneasy. I am by no means saying that they're bad parents (I don't know and don't care) but when your kid is a 10 day old infant and their crib is covered in porgs and R2D2 plushies I wonder what that child is going to grow up and be like. I know I had Batman pajamas when I was a kid (though my parents weren't comic book nerds at all), and I still like Batman, so as long as Disney keeps putting out kid focused cartoons and poo poo to help the kids get and stay hooked, I think it'll work out. Obviously not everyone's going to turn into a life long fan, but if the parents are into it, that's just another point of entry. Yeah, teens find their parents super embarrassing, but that's still a lot of years for the kids to decide they like Star Wars after being exposed to a ton of it for years before then. Obviously it helps if they make some good movies that aren't 40 years old at some point though too.
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Dec 26, 2019 15:12
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Dietrich posted:I'm pretty sure it has paid for itself. 2 billion for force awakens, 1 billion for rogue one, 1.3 billion for last Jedi, 400 million for solo. Rise is at 374M already globally. They bought it for 4 billion. The budget doesn't include marketing, which is insane for star wars. Even a conservative analysis with marketing equal to budget, figuring in theater take, they are still over 2 billion in the hole. It doesn't even look like ROS will do more than barely break even. (Worse opening than TLJ and the word of mouth is bad; and it likely cost more considering whst by all accounts is a frantic production with absurd marketing) Now moichandisin, sure. But they are in full 'what the gently caress have we done' mode, believe me dex_sda fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 15:14
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Dietrich posted:Yeah like 125-175M a pop. They were at 4.7B gross before rise came out. 4.7 - 600M = 4.1, and they spent 4.05 on the acquisition. Plus merchandising. Loool a single movie costs more than 600 mil including marketing in this franchise.
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Dec 26, 2019 15:16
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dex_sda posted:It doesn't even look like ROS will do more than barely break even. It already made more than 500 million in less than a week, this sounds crazy.
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Dec 26, 2019 15:23
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marketing costs for these movies are absurdly high, and they did tons of reshoots and so on and so forth. they might not earn that much extra
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Dec 26, 2019 15:28
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Sinteres posted:It already made more than 500 million in less than a week, this sounds crazy. It opened worse than TLJ. The bulk of the money is made first week, and performance after is even measured in multiples of opening weekend gross (so called 'multiplier'). Some movies have high multipliers, but they have good word of mouth. ROS is 'kinda ok' even by people who liked it. Now, consider that the budget likely was higher due to a by all accounts frantic production, mesning budget probably broke 300mil. Marketing was absurd for this one, and even conservatively you spend the same on marketing as movie budget, so another 300 mil. Theater takes part of your gross, so it probably needs a billion worldwide to break even, maybe even more. And it only barely looks to be on track. Merch sales are down, and attendance at parks is low. This is a loving disaster to Disney. They are probably in the black thanks to merchandising, but it is by no means the cow laying golden eggs they wanted.
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Dec 26, 2019 15:32
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dex_sda posted:It opened worse than TLJ. The bulk of the money is made first week, and performance after is even measured in multiples of opening weekend gross (so called 'multiplier'). Some movies have high multipliers, but they have good word of mouth. ROS is 'kinda ok' even by people who liked it. TLJ had a budget of like $300 million, and I'm pretty sure that includes marketing?
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Dec 26, 2019 15:37
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it's not including marketing. and likely the budgets are higher due to hollywood accounting. they don't have to show us all the extra hidden costs or all the money laundering thats inevitably going on i dont have any proof but i believe this none the less
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Dec 26, 2019 15:41
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Isn't Hollywood accounting the opposite of that, where they pretend the budgets are higher than they really are so they never have to say they made money?
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Dec 26, 2019 15:42
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McCloud posted:Like, they literally hooked her up with the neo-nazi kid instead of the black guy. He's 36 lol
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Dec 26, 2019 15:45
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Sinteres posted:Isn't Hollywood accounting the opposite of that, where they pretend the budgets are higher than they really are so they never have to say they made money? no loving idea ha ha
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Dec 26, 2019 15:46
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I still can't believe that the last scene we see of Chewie is him flipping out over finally getting a medal.
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Dec 26, 2019 15:46
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Sinteres posted:Isn't Hollywood accounting the opposite of that, where they pretend the budgets are higher than they really are so they never have to say they made money? A little bit of both. Hiding costs with worse tax breaks, inflating others. Regardless, twice the stated budget is the ballpark of what a movie costs. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 15:56
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If a big company invests 4 billion in something and only roughly breaks even heads tend to roll. To spend that much cash and not see a significant return and/or growth is poor.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:01
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Dishwasher posted:Watched the movie again and loving WOOOOF. It's actually bad and I apologize for saying it wasn't. Like, this had to be this bad on purpose. Really? What happened? What made you change your mind?
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Dec 26, 2019 16:01
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Capfalcon posted:I still can't believe that the last scene we see of Chewie is him flipping out over finally getting a medal. He should have torn the gold wrapper off and taken a bite of the delicious space chocolate inside.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:08
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https://twitter.com/Spectre799games/status/1209746679546564608?s=19 It's cool to see McGregor, Park, etc really embrace their involvement in the prequels. I wonder how the sequel cast will feel in a decade, although I doubt the sequels will receive the same sort of latter day appreciation that the prequels have gotten.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:08
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Mat Cauthon posted:It's cool to see McGregor, Park, etc really embrace their involvement in the prequels. I wonder how the sequel cast will feel in a decade, although I doubt the sequels will receive the same sort of latter day appreciation that the prequels have gotten. Obviously there’s no way of knowing for sure but episodes 2/3 are at least a reasonable-to-good story, poorly told. Hubris of the Jedi leading to the dual failures of the Emperor and Anakin’s fall. I’m less sure about Rey’s story. Maaaybe hindsight makes everyone appreciate Ben’s arc a bit more?
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Dec 26, 2019 16:16
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sassassin posted:If a big company invests 4 billion in something and only roughly breaks even heads tend to roll. To spend that much cash and not see a significant return and/or growth is poor. Yeah and each movie gets worse and worse for them, too. ROS looks about break-even, the end of a loving star wars trilogy! R1 didn't make much money, and Solo lost literal hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars. None of the movies after TFA inspired growth in merchandising, and even made the sales fall to the ground. Their rides are empty. It is actually kind of impressive, the fashion in which Disney Star Wars ate poo poo in just 5 years. They made Lucas look like a genius for selling it for 4 bil. He gets a nice payout, stops having to worry about this poo poo, and even gets fans who previously whined at him for the prequels to clamor for his involvement. He must be in a hell of a mood these days. dex_sda fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 16:19
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Again, they had the opportunity to play thesis-antithesis-synthesis with the movies since TLJ was critical of what came before it, but they hosed themselves out of it with TROS.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:20
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Don’t worry yourselves. You watch, in 10-20 years we’ll get both SW and Marvel reboots, with the ultimate goal of merging the IPs. What’s that smell? Nostalgia? *drops a massive dead alien squid on Orlando*
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Dec 26, 2019 16:35
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