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Writing down the language of a species that might not have lungs, never mind vocal cords, would be interesting.
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Dec 26, 2019 12:31
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goatface posted:Writing down the language of a species that might not have lungs, never mind vocal cords, would be interesting. FIRST DESCRIPTION OF DISCONTINUOUS RESPIRATION IN THE PRAYING MANTIS HIERODULA PATELLIFERA Salim Patel1, Christina Carrion1, Emily Fioramonti1, Greg Prete1, Bart van Alphen2, Frederick R. Prete1, Aaron Schimer1. 1Northeastern Illinois University, Chicago, IL, 2Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. Unlike many vertebrates, insect respiration is unusual in that it is both irregular and discontinuous giving rise to discontinuous gas-exchange cycles (DGC). Gas movement through the respiratory system is regulated by abdominal pumping and the opening and closing of small orifices in the thorax and abdomen (spiracles) that are continuous with a network of tubules (trachea). Discontinuous breathing patterns have been described in a number of insects including cockroaches, beetles, and locusts by flow-through respirometry, video monitoring of spiracles, or abdominal movements. However, no such analyses have been done using praying mantises (Insecta, Mantodea). Here we used a custom designed, MatLab-based video analysis system to describe the respiration-related abdominal movements in the mantis, Hierodula patellifera. Analyses were conducted over periods ranging from 24-72 hours and under different feeding regimes. Overall, mantis respiration occurred in discrete 30-45 second bouts with inter-bout-intervals ranging from 50-60 seconds. Individual bouts consisted of three distinct phases: phase one was characterized by shallow, irregularly spaced breaths; phase two consists of a series of 15-20 rapidly occurring, deeper breaths collectively lasting 17-20 seconds; and phase three consisted of 3-5 very deep breaths, each lasting 18-20 seconds. The three phases were characterized by progressive abdominal elevation superimposed on the breathing-related oscillations. In addition, our preliminary data suggest there are post-feeding changes in breath rate which we hypothesize are associated with increased metabolic activity. These experiments represent important steps forward in our understanding of the complex patterning and regulation of respiration in this model system. Mantis respiration is surprisingly complicated! No lungs nor vocal cords, but they could conceivably burp to expel air and form sounds. Alternatively they can just rub their legs/wings together. Mantis do have ears! Well a singular ear in the middle of their body. That’s primarily to listen in the ultrasonic range for bat sonar. i81icu812 fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 16:02
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The thing that is understated in making fantasy races is that things like mantises and crabs have very very different metabolisms from humans, partially due to their respiration being less, uh, explosive, so they'd get exhausted and recover from exhaustion in a totally different rhythm. Where's my fantasy game where the reptile species have to eat significantly less but are barely effective for hours at a time in the morning?
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Dec 26, 2019 16:25
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Mantises here are explicitly magic beings.
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Dec 26, 2019 16:36
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gonadic io posted:Mantises here are explicitly magic beings. Yes but it's fun to think about fantasy races that can be more more than just humans with more/less arms/legs
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Dec 26, 2019 17:03
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gonadic io posted:Oh wow I missed that the crown was mirror image every turn, I thought that it was just once. I had another look and that item actually also grants stealth to people without it, that's so loving good. Yes it means the unit doesn't get a shroud but just wow. they have a bunch of misc slots right if they are a sacred unit just give them holy water
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Dec 26, 2019 17:20
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Ramc posted:they have a bunch of misc slots right if they are a sacred unit just give them holy water I thought holy water just autoblesses already sacred units, but does nothing if they are not sacred?
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Dec 26, 2019 17:36
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Donkringel posted:I thought holy water just autoblesses already sacred units, but does nothing if they are not sacred? This is correct, holy water does nothing on the mantis mages other than the death priests.
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Dec 26, 2019 18:01
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gonadic io posted:This is correct, holy water does nothing on the mantis mages other than the death priests. Well ok. So what massed projectiles (ha) or direct damage evocations are necessary for that sort of thug nonsense if you can even catch them. (edit: "what do you get in EA Cassia for national items real powerful stuff, right?" ":cough: yeah totally"  )
Ramc fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Dec 26, 2019 |
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Dec 26, 2019 19:05
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gonadic io posted:And while I have not actually played this nation I'm not sure that I agree about the sacreds. Yes they're good but I'd rather just have the other cap troop most of the time for the extra attack (both have crazy stats, spirit sight, magic weapons etc). Mostly the thing about the sacreds is that you can stack resists on them to make them far harder to kill with magic. Your troops are generally pretty good at not getting killed by things that aren't magic already, so having troops that are resilient against anything makes it very hard to counter you. This is especially relevant if you're doing an Evo2 rush of some kind, because likely at that research level no one will have the magic to punch through your bless to actually kill your troops. My personal preference would be something like FR 10/SR 10/+Defense/PR 5/MR 3/Larger on an imprisoned pretender with heavy scales, but it's possible that losing the ability to stick the size 2 mantises underneath your sacreds isn't worth the fairly substantial hp boost and minor str boost that Larger gives. I never really know how to evaluate stuff like that.
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Dec 26, 2019 20:12
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Arcvasti posted:Mostly the thing about the sacreds is that you can stack resists on them to make them far harder to kill with magic. Your troops are generally pretty good at not getting killed by things that aren't magic already, so having troops that are resilient against anything makes it very hard to counter you. This is especially relevant if you're doing an Evo2 rush of some kind, because likely at that research level no one will have the magic to punch through your bless to actually kill your troops. Sounds like a pretty familiar bless!
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Dec 26, 2019 20:32
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Tulip posted:The thing that is understated in making fantasy races is that things like mantises and crabs have very very different metabolisms from humans, partially due to their respiration being less, uh, explosive, so they'd get exhausted and recover from exhaustion in a totally different rhythm. when i worked with snakes we would anesthetize them with the gas isoflurane. However they could smell it, and would try to hold their breath. Water snakes could hold their breath especially long, they could basically just stop breathing for 20-30 minutes no problem. If you're cold blooded and don't have to actively maintain homeostasis you really don't need a lot of oxygen. Then of course once the reptiles went under, the isoflurane would pretty much paralyze all of their muscles including their lungs. That means they might not be breathing at all for over an hour sometimes, but would wake up without any lasting negative effects. C'tis's poison resistence might just literally be all the lizard men holding their breath
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Dec 26, 2019 23:01
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Squalid posted:C'tis's poison resistence might just literally be all the lizard men holding their breath "but he was stung by a giant scorpion and literally injected with veno-" "HOLDING THEIR BREATH"
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Dec 26, 2019 23:47
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the concept of generic poison+venom resistance gets very silly when you venture into the weeds
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Dec 27, 2019 01:44
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Tollymain posted:the concept of generic poison+venom resistance gets very silly when you venture into the weeds Humans are honestly really great compared to most mammals and we still get pretty trivially destroyed by a pretty decent range of chemicals.
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Dec 27, 2019 02:19
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Tulip posted:The thing that is understated in making fantasy races is that things like mantises and crabs have very very different metabolisms from humans, partially due to their respiration being less, uh, explosive, so they'd get exhausted and recover from exhaustion in a totally different rhythm. Any more detail on this?
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Dec 27, 2019 02:53
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Tulip posted:Humans are honestly really great compared to most mammals and we still get pretty trivially destroyed by a pretty decent range of chemicals. good
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Dec 27, 2019 15:34
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In U news
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Dec 27, 2019 20:27
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im the central bulge
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Dec 28, 2019 00:59
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Telsa Cola posted:Any more detail on this? insects and a lot of other terrestrial invertebrates don't breath through their mouths. Instead insects breath through a series of little holes on the sides of their bodies called spiracles. This changes respiration in some interesting ways -- for example unlike tetrapods who have to actively pump air into and out of their lungs they can instead rely on passive gas exchange meaning they don't have to use any muscles at all during respiration. Take a look at a mouse or even yourself in a mirror sometime -- your chest is almost constantly moving. By contrast you could watch a spider waiting for prey for hours and it might not even twitch. Usually these animals don't have to actively breath even when exerting themselves. Instead they rely on the flexing of their limbs as they move to pump air in and out of their bodies. I'm not an expert in spider metabolism or anything but as I recall this has some consequences for how they experience "exhaustion." If you've ever played with a web spinner on the ground you might notice they tend to move in rapid short burst. They go really fast, and then stop. This pattern is I think related to their respiration and circulation, which is highly efficient for very short periods, but tends to tap out quickly and require some time to recharge. Spiders are also weird in that as I recall some of them have lung like structures. Rollypollies aka pillbugs, which are crustaceans, have a completely different system for breathing which is more like tetrapods than insects.
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Dec 28, 2019 01:54
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Squalid posted:insects and a lot of other terrestrial invertebrates don't breath through their mouths. Instead insects breath through a series of little holes on the sides of their bodies called spiracles. This changes respiration in some interesting ways -- for example unlike tetrapods who have to actively pump air into and out of their lungs they can instead rely on passive gas exchange meaning they don't have to use any muscles at all during respiration. Take a look at a mouse or even yourself in a mirror sometime -- your chest is almost constantly moving. By contrast you could watch a spider waiting for prey for hours and it might not even twitch. Usually these animals don't have to actively breath even when exerting themselves. Instead they rely on the flexing of their limbs as they move to pump air in and out of their bodies. do you have any information on clown respiratory systems?
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Dec 28, 2019 04:29
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Squalid posted:insects and a lot of other terrestrial invertebrates don't breath through their mouths. Instead insects breath through a series of little holes on the sides of their bodies called spiracles. This changes respiration in some interesting ways -- for example unlike tetrapods who have to actively pump air into and out of their lungs they can instead rely on passive gas exchange meaning they don't have to use any muscles at all during respiration. Take a look at a mouse or even yourself in a mirror sometime -- your chest is almost constantly moving. By contrast you could watch a spider waiting for prey for hours and it might not even twitch. Usually these animals don't have to actively breath even when exerting themselves. Instead they rely on the flexing of their limbs as they move to pump air in and out of their bodies. Thank you!
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Dec 28, 2019 04:38
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imagine a comically large meat on the bone. but it's a clown
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Dec 28, 2019 04:38
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Jon Joe posted:do you have any information on clown respiratory systems? What do you think whoopie cushions are?
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Dec 28, 2019 04:49
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Incidentally the reason we don’t have giant mantises to begin with is due to the inefficiency of insect respiration and oxygen transportation as body size increases.
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Dec 28, 2019 05:26
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i81icu812 posted:Incidentally the reason we don’t have giant mantises to begin with is due to the inefficiency of insect respiration and oxygen transportation as body size increases. Apparently insects were a lot bigger on earth when the atmospheric oxygen was higher.
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Dec 28, 2019 12:43
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gonadic io posted:Apparently insects were a lot bigger on earth when the atmospheric oxygen was higher.  (not technically an insect) The part about the Carboniferous era that I find most fascinating is that lignin-breaking chemistry didn't exist, and trees of the era had huge lignin ratios (upwards of 80 times current), so that's why there were enough trees to push the O2 concentration up to 35% and lead to the ground just being covered in dead, undecaying tree trunks for millions of years.
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Dec 28, 2019 13:33
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Tulip posted:The part about the Carboniferous era that I find most fascinating is that lignin-breaking chemistry didn't exist, and trees of the era had huge lignin ratios (upwards of 80 times current), so that's why there were enough trees to push the O2 concentration up to 35% and lead to the ground just being covered in dead, undecaying tree trunks for millions of years. what
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Dec 28, 2019 13:46
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GunnerJ posted:what Trees invented lignin to build stronger frames, and bacteria then had to figure out how to break it down. In the meantime wood literally did not decay. When a tree fell it just... stayed there. Meaning an immense amount of carbon got locked up in this undecaying vegetable matter and the oxygen content of the atmosphere skyrocketed. The accumulation of vegetable matter subsided deep underground with time, and after being slow-cooked by underground forces for millions of years turned into oil. Edit: Basically, imagine if trees were made of polypropylene.
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Dec 28, 2019 14:06
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What with the high oxygen and all the undigested wood lying around, forest fires during the carboniferous were absolutely buckwild.
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Dec 28, 2019 14:27
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The Lone Badger posted:Trees invented lignin to build stronger frames, and bacteria then had to figure out how to break it down. In the meantime wood literally did not decay. When a tree fell it just... stayed there. Meaning an immense amount of carbon got locked up in this undecaying vegetable matter and the oxygen content of the atmosphere skyrocketed. Coal. Oil was later. (Mostly contemporaneous with the dinosaurs, actually, so common saying of pumping dead dinos into the tank is not actually *that* wrong. Although oil deposits were mostly formed in shallow seas, so more Spinosaurs than Velociraptors.) And also, while wood did not decay, it did burn. And the higher O2 concentrations made wildfires much easier to start. Most of the coal deposits of the world were deposited as charcoal.
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Dec 28, 2019 17:57
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thats legitimately really loving cool
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Dec 29, 2019 04:22
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I kind of wonder what'd happen to a time traveller going back to that period. Would the air 'feel' fresher to breathe? Were the microorganisms complex enough to cause disease? Would their shits remain, and what would happen to the bacteria in said shits?
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Dec 29, 2019 09:19
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The Oxygen Toxicity would probably be a more imminent problem than any infectious agents.
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Dec 29, 2019 09:27
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CommissarMega posted:I kind of wonder what'd happen to a time traveller going back to that period. Would the air 'feel' fresher to breathe? Were the microorganisms complex enough to cause disease? Would their shits remain, and what would happen to the bacteria in said shits? You'd probably get murdered by the hell scorpions.
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Dec 29, 2019 09:54
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clown scouts https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2001/04/09/the-god-of-dark-laughter
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Dec 30, 2019 01:31
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:clown scouts clowts
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Dec 30, 2019 03:09
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https://twitter.com/jon_snow_420/status/1110669211292979200
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Dec 31, 2019 16:53
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Turn 16 First we get notice that Karanaac has a new prophet, I guess U must have killed the old one. Not that prophets really mean too much to Karanaac since it's trivial for them to communion up to H3 if they have any troops to bless. I guess maybe for a boar warrior fight where no rocks or pretenders are present? Oh and it's a very shameful default name prophet I'm pretty sure, are they even still trying?  We got some air gems which is nice but more importantly we got another gold event! It's our third I believe and I'm pretty excited to start spending it.  No fights this turn but our forces are all moving south to fight Karanaac and/or Fennoscandia.  Speaking of, Fenno have a pretty large force on my borders. If they walked into me and fought me in my clown-empowering turmoil dominion I certainly wouldn't complain. They can't be far from Foul Vapours and Horde of Skeletons by now though, those will be really good against me - with skeletons tying up the giant clowns until the vape clouds kill all my guys. Anglia won't fare any better either. The time of Fenno being a walkover is almost certainly over unfortunately.  Up north we've found both LA Chasos and MA Iram. More about them later of course but Chasos is all about illusions and thunderstriking, while Iram is about fire djinn - it's actually quite similar to the new vanilla nation Na'ba. Both match up pretty well against the frost wraiths so I'm just planning on leaving them all alone to fight it out amongst themselves.  Our research is up to a not-awful 62 per month now, with the Armless Women being churned out in Jessinka's Oasis along with Esteban and Diana in the cap. We'll hit construction 2 next turn and can start making Owl Quills as cheap research boosters. One commander we haven't seen yet are the Magicians. They're incredibly cheap at only 35 gold, don't require a lab or a temple, and have a 10% chance of air 1. Their main use is to sneak around on enemy borders and since they raise unrest at a pretty big 2.5 per turn each they really make it much more feasible to attack into opponents with order dominion, assuming that you plan a few turns ahead. Since I don't really like doing that however I don't make much use of them at all. Besides my commander points are far too valuable on research right now it's not like I have a bunch of forts sitting empty. 
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Dec 31, 2019 17:08
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lmao at the gold event being +1 literal coin and +1 unrest because the crowd is flummoxed
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Dec 31, 2019 17:22
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