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I doubt really any of this is astroturfing. The FTC has been clear on this, and Google has enough issues with anti-trust right now (obviously individual employees might be posting). If there's one thing the various console wars have taught me over the years, it's that there's an endless supply of idiots who will identify with a consumer product and defend it to the death. No astroturfing needed.
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Jan 1, 2020 21:54
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1416 Vietnom nom nom posted:I doubt really any of this is astroturfing. The FTC has been clear on this, and Google has enough issues with anti-trust right now (obviously individual employees might be posting). I agree with the idea that there are endless idiots but I don't think anyone in the console gaming field would be above the paid shilling.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:12
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They aren't, but it's also true that people on the internet can be weirdly confrontational and partisan when it comes to video games.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:15
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Vietnom nom nom posted:I doubt really any of this is astroturfing. The FTC has been clear on this, and Google has enough issues with anti-trust right now (obviously individual employees might be posting). It helps to prime the pump for this kind of stuff. You get the ball rolling by artificially making it seem like there's a persecuted audience in support of something, thus convincing other people to hop on that train until suddenly people are vehemently defending your company and your product for no pay because they've invested part of their identity in it. The sheer number of "i'm an old dude with no time to play video games(but enough to post about them on reddit) and a family i hate but stadia saved my life!" posts feels to me like someone trying to make a jumping off point for a narrative.
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Jan 1, 2020 22:31
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quote:uh, have you tried it? Its not perfect by any means, but its better than my 4 year old pc and feels like a technological marvel.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:10
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quote:I'm sorry, but the gaming industry seems pretty convinced cloud gaming is the future, whether Stadia succeeds or not. If Stadia is successful, companies that bought in become major winners and companies that ignored it fall way behind. Developing for Stadia is a minor cost compared to the risk/benefits on offer.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:26
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quote:This product is exactly in line with my expectations based on the advertising as I read it prior to clicking purchase. That includes their embellishments and me being able to see through it to what was real opposed to what was hyped.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:31
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quote:I don’t understand all the hate for stadia. They are building the future. The service we have now will be improved on daily and the features promised will come over time.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:37
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It’s just so insanely inauthentic Like there’s nothing about playing on Stadia that will “feel like a technical marvel.” At its very best it’s precisely the same play experience you get with a console.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:45
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Fallom posted:Like there’s nothing about playing on Stadia that will “feel like a technical marvel.” I disagree, it's pretty neat I can play on my laptop or hop on my Chromecast and play Stadia. I feel similarly about my Switch. It's really a neat service even if the subreddit is a comedy goldmine.
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Jan 1, 2020 23:52
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What about playing Destiny 2 on Stadia feels different from playing Destiny 2 on any other platform or screen? I understand the enabling technology is exciting, but the actual play experience is stock standard (at best).
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Jan 1, 2020 23:56
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Fallom posted:What about playing Destiny 2 on Stadia feels different from playing Destiny 2 on any other platform or screen?
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Jan 2, 2020 00:02
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Fallom posted:What about playing Destiny 2 on Stadia feels different from playing Destiny 2 on any other platform or screen? The gameplay itself is as you described, at best like a PC/console.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:04
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Gobbeldygook posted:Playing Destiny 2 on Stadia could be better than playing it on PC because there are no hackers in PvP, but that's also the case for consoles too and they have actual player bases. This is good and bad - I wouldn't want to get a game like Skyrim on Stadia because modding that game is half the fun. Probably my biggest complaint about Stadia besides not having a proper sleep mode.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:11
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There is absolutely nothing that's local to your machine (besides the launcher) right? You can't even get your own save files or modify setting/configuration files beyond what's actually given to you in the game menu options right? You're completely at the mercy that Google won't cancel your account (see how many people lost their Google fi because their Google wallet got banned/closed or something) and the developers to do a decent port that won't have mods or third party patches to fix it. And you're also limited to the games that comes to the stadia library. At least if you have a pc you have the ubi store, steam, epic game store and even games that can be installed without a store launcher. See I'm not saying the service is the worst idea ever but you are giving up a lot of options/access for some convenience.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:23
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Essentially speaking, yes, although I suppose it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility to give you kind of virtual desktop environment at some point that lets you access that stuff. I mean, it's basically already a VM, might as well go the whole distance, right? Not seeing it happening, but it's something they could do. The annoying thing is, if Google wasn't being so mind-bogglingly stupid about it, I actually could agree that being able to all of my games on any of my devices regardless of hardware capabilities would be pretty drat great.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:25
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Cardiovorax posted:Essentially speaking, yes, although I suppose it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility to give you kind of virtual desktop environment at some point that lets you access that stuff. I mean, it's basically already a VM, might as well go the whole distance, right? Not seeing it happening, but it's something they could do. Yeah and I'm not gonna say that's impossible or anything. That totally could happen. That's sort of what they're trying to do with xcloud and GeForce now (whatever that was called) But right now we're judging stadia based on what it is now. Also I just wanna say if Stadians are trying to say their service is cheaper, it's not. It's $15 a month for 4k/60fps let's not forget that. (no need to mention it's not doing that on all games anyway). So if I was subscribed for 6 years, that costs $1,080. On top of a controller/Chromecast or any other equipment I need/want. However if I was to buy a ps5 next year, at probably $500, and buy six years of ps+ at $60 a year, I spend $860 total. Stadia isn't solving the issue on 'cost' at least for high end gaming. However if you don't care about that and just want a gaming machine, Xbox one s, and ps4 slims have been under $200 already and they'll play blu Ray disc's as well and have a larger library than stadia may ever will.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:32
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Ineffiable posted:Also I just wanna say if Stadians are trying to say their service is cheaper, it's not. It's $15 a month for 4k/60fps let's not forget that. (no need to mention it's not doing that on all games anyway). So if I was subscribed for 6 years, that costs $1,080. On top of a controller/Chromecast or any other equipment I need/want. You only need Pro ($10/mo) for 4k and the monthly "free" games, right? Once Stadia opens up I believe folks will be able to buy games and play them without paying the monthly fee. They'll be paying full price most likely - nothing like Steam sales or buying used console games.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:54
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Ineffiable posted:Also I just wanna say if Stadians are trying to say their service is cheaper, it's not. It's $15 a month for 4k/60fps let's not forget that. (no need to mention it's not doing that on all games anyway). So if I was subscribed for 6 years, that costs $1,080. On top of a controller/Chromecast or any other equipment I need/want. People are idiots though, there's a reason car prices are usually listed as a monthly repayment costs and not the actual cost. ...! posted:
Wasn't Star Citizen using Google Compute cloud services originally, and then switched to AWS? Glimm posted:You only need Pro ($10/mo) for 4k and the monthly "free" games, right? Once Stadia opens up I believe folks will be able to buy games and play them without paying the monthly fee. Steam got the head start on everyone and has a massive library and cemented itself long ago, even EA are going back after pushing their own thing for ages. The Epic Store is throwing their billions of Fortnite bucks at securing everything they can as an exclusive to force people into their ecosystem, and got a leg up on their user base by tieing it to one of the largest games around. Stadia's gimmick is the streaming thing which makes their operational costs massively higher than either Steam or Epic Store as they need a significantly more complex back end than just a CDN to download from. No-one's going to re-buy games just so they can stream them, and no-one's going to fully commit to their ecosystem unless the deals are significantly better or they get a bunch of exclusives that drag people in and then they stay there because all their friends are using it now too. Just don't see how they ever get it off the ground in any meaningful capacity. Rudager fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jan 2, 2020 |
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Jan 2, 2020 00:56
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Glimm posted:This is good and bad - I wouldn't want to get a game like Skyrim on Stadia because modding that game is half the fun. Probably my biggest complaint about Stadia besides not having a proper sleep mode. Ineffiable posted:There is absolutely nothing that's local to your machine (besides the launcher) right? You can't even get your own save files or modify setting/configuration files beyond what's actually given to you in the game menu options right? You're completely at the mercy that [...] the developers to do a decent port that won't have mods or third party patches to fix it.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:58
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Glimm posted:You only need Pro ($10/mo) for 4k and the monthly "free" games, right? Once Stadia opens up I believe folks will be able to buy games and play them without paying the monthly fee. For stereo sound and 1080p - and we don't know what the picture quality or gameplay quality will be. Nor are we sure of the financial viability. The cost of running the games means that Google giving you a computer for free has to have some obvious strings attached.
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Jan 2, 2020 01:08
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Cemetry Gator posted:For stereo sound and 1080p - and we don't know what the picture quality or gameplay quality will be. https://store.google.com/product/stadia_learn This says Pro ($10/mo) is 4k and 5.1 surround and base (no cost) is 1080p and stereo. Good point about the cost of running games - no idea what the financials look like there. I assume Google just burns money though.
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Jan 2, 2020 01:22
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Whoops I thought pro was $15 a month. At $10 a month, even if you spend $500 on a console every 6 years and a $60 yearly subscription, then you still about break even so the point remains, you're still not saving much on cost when you compare to the experience that the new consoles will bring. And I'm gonna lol if there's restrictions on the free stadia mode like... You cannot play multiplayer split screen games or something. How long did it take ouya to keep floundering around before shutting down the store for good? Like 3 years?
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Jan 2, 2020 01:27
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Cemetry Gator posted:For stereo sound and 1080p - and we don't know what the picture quality or gameplay quality will be. And I have to change my settings to 720 just to reduce the lag and pixelation on 75/6 internet just to make games mostly playable. I'll be cancelling my subscription as soon as it starts to cost me additional 💰
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Jan 2, 2020 01:38
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Also something to consider is that just because it streams at a particular resolution doesn't mean you're getting similar quality. Hell my Comast television/internet stream comes on at 1080p and the picture looks like rear end compared to 1080p on Netflix.
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Jan 2, 2020 01:46
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1080p streams of most movies or shows look like poo poo versus the blu-ray of them
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Jan 2, 2020 01:54
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Celexi posted:1080p streams of most movies or shows look like poo poo versus the blu-ray of them Case in point, Speed Racer. It's a movie you have to see on Blu-ray (if you didn't get the pleasure of seeing it theatrically.) Streaming the movie does it no justice, actively harming the look of the movie.
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Jan 2, 2020 01:59
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withoutclass posted:Also something to consider is that just because it streams at a particular resolution doesn't mean you're getting similar quality. Hell my Comast television/internet stream comes on at 1080p and the picture looks like rear end compared to 1080p on Netflix. TV channels are typically encoded at like MPEG-2 with some lovely constant bitrate due to being a live feed. Also straight 59.94i NTSC (or 50i PAL). Netflix streams are actually coherently encoded at native framerate (usually 23.976fps) with modern codecs and usually come out better as a result. Detective No. 27 posted:Case in point, Speed Racer. It's a movie you have to see on Blu-ray (if you didn't get the pleasure of seeing it theatrically.) Streaming the movie does it no justice, actively harming the look of the movie. This is especially amusing given the Blu-ray is notoriously sub-par. It was a single-layered disc because it was early Blu-ray days and paying more for a DL disc wasn't worth it given that movie's lack of success. No lossless audio either, the Blu-ray has regular Dolby Digital audio (640kbps), and uses the older VC1 codec. Warner had a few discs of similar quality at the time, too, but I think all of their other titles have since gotten upgraded editions. An Amazon stream would actually likely be in better quality due to using a better codec but that would depend on them doing the necessary encode directly from a reference quality file and not from the Blu-ray.
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Jan 2, 2020 03:04
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Celexi posted:1080p streams of most movies or shows look like poo poo versus the blu-ray of them If you want to prove this yourself, open a game and record yourself standing still with shadowplay(etc) with an insanely high bitrate. Bring up that video and tab between it, and the game. No matter what you do, it'll always look like someone toggling between a sharpness filter being on/off, as that's precisely what the encoder does. At stadia/reasonable to stream bandwidths, you'll also get colour-space compression, lower dynamic range and lower contrast. This all whilst standing still, so to say nothing about any motion artifacts.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:03
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My favorite video to stream is confetti. I have yet to find a service with a codec that doesn't completely poo poo the bed trying to compress confetti.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:16
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Rudager posted:Stadia's gimmick is the streaming thing which makes their operational costs massively higher than either Steam or Epic Store as they need a significantly more complex back end than just a CDN to download from. No-one's going to re-buy games just so they can stream them, and no-one's going to fully commit to their ecosystem unless the deals are significantly better or they get a bunch of exclusives that drag people in and then they stay there because all their friends are using it now too. No, the fundamental failing is it's entirely dependent on what's between you and Google's hardware, and neither you or Google have any say in what form that takes. And for most people it's not gonna be fibre all the way, so it's a complete non-starter as a mainstream thing. That's before even getting into what'd really happen trying to use it on public wifi, or just capped download plans.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:28
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univbee posted:TV channels are typically encoded at like MPEG-2 with some lovely constant bitrate due to being a live feed. Also straight 59.94i NTSC (or 50i PAL). Netflix streams are actually coherently encoded at native framerate (usually 23.976fps) with modern codecs and usually come out better as a result. Also, if you're watching on cable, the quality is going to be even worse since they are cramming stations into the feed, so they need to apply extra compression. OTA channels can look pretty good since they get their full bandwidth, provided you're using an antenna.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:42
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Cemetry Gator posted:OTA channels can look pretty good since they get their full bandwidth, provided you're using an antenna. Except those are often fast-forwarded ever-so-slightly to fill a time window.
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Jan 2, 2020 04:59
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Except those are often fast-forwarded ever-so-slightly to fill a time window. I'm just talking about general picture quality. Why on God's green earth would you ever want to watch a movie on network television, which will be edited, will probably have a modified aspect ratio, and have commercial breaks. Oh, and they usually have worse picture quality since they'll do extra poo poo to them for broadcast reasons. You know, more DNR and poo poo. Time compression is the least of your worries.
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Jan 2, 2020 05:11
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Detective No. 27 posted:Case in point, Speed Racer. It's a movie you have to see on Blu-ray (if you didn't get the pleasure of seeing it theatrically.) Streaming the movie does it no justice, actively harming the look of the movie. I actually love that movie and know exactly what you are talking about. It was one of the first movies I ever watched on Blu-Ray and the visuals and colors blew me away. In particular the final race is nothing short of a visual feast. It's up there with The Fifth Element in terms of visuals for me. Streaming it, or watching clips on YouTube, really does the film an injustice. It's still fun, and looks good, but it doesn't seem nearly as vibrant or immersive. The fight scene with the family is another good example. It doesn't have nearly the impact on streaming. You really lose a lot of the fine particle effects and subtle distortions that make the scene feel so meaty. Obviously the sound quality suffers too.
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Jan 2, 2020 07:40
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Watching things on cable pisses me off these days because the cable companies compress the everloving poo poo out of everything. It's just gotten worse and worse over time. These days HD on cable barely looks any better than SD. Local channels are drat near unwatchable. It's amazing that they manage to make it look that bad, given that the feeds they receive on their end are either at or near blu-ray quality. They save money by compressing it so much because they know you have no other choice. Yet another reason cable monopolies are bullshit. I really need to get an OTA antenna for local channels. And Stadians seriously believe that Stadia will force those same companies to lift their data caps. Cable companies won't give one poo poo.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:10
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As a player base data point, Giant Bomb's Jeff Gerstmann accepted every single Stadia friend request from anyone and it was mid December before he saw more than one other person actually ingame. This thing is incredibly dead.
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Jan 2, 2020 08:40
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Just to give ya'll some perspective on how badly hosed Stadia is on the getting-developers-on-board front. I forgot that I went seeking comment from my favourite 7 years of development Xbone failed exclusive turned walk-n-fight cross platform kinda-meh title, Wulverblade: Note the platforms:  And got this total lack of enthusiasm and open willingness to confirm Stadia is a total no-go dead end zero. 
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Jan 2, 2020 09:11
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This is a funny one: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stadia/comments/eitke1/finished_up_the_4k_theater_install_today/ dude builds a super expensive home theater to play his budget streaming gaming platform
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Jan 2, 2020 15:01
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Cemetry Gator posted:Why on God's green earth would you ever want to watch a movie on network television, which will be edited, will probably have a modified aspect ratio, and have commercial breaks.
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Jan 2, 2020 15:21
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