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2house2fly
Nov 14, 2012

You did a super job wrapping things up! And I'm not just saying that because I have to!
Every happy ending is a lie, tbh

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John Wick of Dogs
Mar 4, 2017

A real hellraiser


In defense of Luke going to become a hermit, he did not know Starkiller base existed. He probably thought Leia and the Republic would be able to handle The First Order

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013

apparently there were naboo starfighters in the space battle at the end so i changed my mind,, the movie is good now

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

cuntman.net posted:

apparently there were naboo starfighters in the space battle at the end so i changed my mind,, the movie is good now

Wasn’t there a Star Wars game that secretly had the Naboo star fighters and no one knew about them until Episode I came out way later?

Zoran
Aug 19, 2008

I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

ruddiger posted:

Wasn’t there a Star Wars game that secretly had the Naboo star fighters and no one knew about them until Episode I came out way later?

Rogue Squadron, which came out six months before Episode 1 and had a cheat code to unlock the fighter that was published by Lucasarts around the time the movie premiered

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

John Wick of Dogs posted:

Obi WanKen Palpatine.

That's the title of my fanfiction too, but the content is very different.

Assepoester
Jul 18, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
Melman v2
https://uk.ign.com/articles/2018/06/26/mark-hamill-on-the-weirdly-tragic-trajectory-of-luke-skywalker

“It is tragic. I'm not a method actor, but one of the techniques a method actor will use is to try and use real-life experiences to relate to whatever fictional scenario he's involved in. The only thing I could think of, given the screenplay that I read, was that I was of the Beatles generation - ‘All You Need Is Love’, ‘peace and love’.

“I thought at that time, when I was a teenager: ‘By the time we get in power, there will be no more war, there will be no racial discrimination, and pot will be legal.’ So I'm one for three. When you think about it, [my generation is] a failure. The world is unquestionably worse now than it was then.”

There’s definitely some questioning to be done about whether that’s unquestionable, but rewatching The Last Jedi knowing this is Hamill’s feeling lends the role extra pathos. ‘Luke as horrified baby boomer’ not only makes his retreat from a disappointing world (well, galaxy) more understandable, but helps bring his bittersweet last decision into focus.

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004


A blessed dump from a blessed Star Wars:

https://imgur.com/gallery/NuMWBk1

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Luke says Ben will destroy everything he loves, but what does Luke actually love?

Han, Luke loves Han.
https://twitter.com/daringdeviI/status/1213547144885526534

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

2house2fly posted:

Every happy ending is a lie, tbh

If OT Han were a real guy, he would absolutely be a deadbeat divorced dad who dumped his son on the kid's uncle and went off to hang out with his old drinking buddy from back in the day. If the ST got one thing right, that's it.

e: Surprised he didn't start the ST out with the Millenium Falcon sitting in his back yard rusting away as he watched space Fox News, swearing he'll get back around to fixing it up one of these days.

feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jan 8, 2020

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend

A good question, for another time

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

feedmyleg posted:

If OT Han were a real guy, he would absolutely be a deadbeat divorced dad who dumped his son on the kid's uncle and went off to hang out with his old drinking buddy from back in the day. If the ST got one thing right, that's it.

e: Surprised he didn't start the ST out with the Millenium Falcon sitting in his back yard rusting away as he watched space TV, swearing he'll get back around to fixing it up one of these days.

Having been that son, 100% agree.

Jerkface
May 21, 2001

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?

Fallen Rib
Fuk yea those rogue one gifs. I dont care how thin the characters are or how weak the middle is, act 3 RO womps.

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013

im one of the psychos who likes the first half of rogue one more than the second half. the fight in the street is my favorite setpiece

CFox
Nov 9, 2005
Everything about the battle of scariff is just solid gold in my book. I'm hoping we get more of that in these movies one of these days.

Wild Horses
Oct 31, 2012

There's really no meaning in making beetles fight.
anytime i see "scarif" i just mentally fill in 'it's gareth' spoken very quickly

Vim Fuego
Jun 1, 2000
Probation
Can't post for 4 days!
Ultra Carp

LOL

Mat Cauthon
Jan 2, 2006

The more tragic things get,
the more I feel like laughing.




This is better than the entire ST.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN

Halloween Jack posted:

Have you considered watching The Clone Wars or Rebels and incorporating them into your reading? It's remarkable that material in the newest season of each supports your interpretations here.

I don’t doubt it, but I have an aversion to TV in general. Plus, as you can see, that stuff is already in the films.

Sure, Rogue One is based on the opening text of Episode 4 - but it was also twist on that text, revealing the “Rebel Spies” were not really spies, and only loosely affiliated to the Rebellion.

Ferrinus posted:

This plays really well with the weird red hand C3P0 had in TFA.

The red arm in TFA, of course, stood for the red hand of communism, disrupting the organic unity of the Galactic body.

So the presumably-unintentional joke is that, when C3PO becomes fully gold at the end, this actually signals Snoke’s victory.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

Zoran posted:

Rian Johnson's method is to contradict people's general impressions and assumptions, only to go back and reaffirm them more deeply than ever before.

A) Thus the story of Luke begins with him rejecting Rey and throwing away his old lightsaber—a genuinely shocking and intriguing development!—and ends with Jedi in general and Luke Skywalker in particular becoming symbols of magnificent power, capable of resisting the greatest evil.

B) The fascist party sweeps through the whole galaxy on what must be a massive wave of popular support, and Leia's resistance has no friends whatsoever. Not to worry! Fifteen people on the losing end of a catastrophic rout are all that Leia needs to regain power. The film ends with the promise of a future uprising on Leia's behalf.

C) The charming, cocksure fighter jock does charming, cocksure fighter jock things... and it gets him demoted! And he leads a mutiny against the woman in power! But it's fine because Leia wakes up and has a nice conversation with Holdo about how great a leader Poe is.

D) The bumbling, cowardly ex-stormtrooper who overcame his fear in the last movie in order to go rescue his one friend and then joined the broader Resistance... becomes a bumbling coward again, but it's cool because he overcomes his fear to attempt a rescue of his several friends, and in so doing he becomes a true Rebel.

There's nothing wrong with this structure, except that Rian discards all the interesting ideas and reifies the bad ones. The notion that the Resistance is part of a perpetual cycle of violence and is battling the wrong enemy is discarded, and we end up with nothing but the good Rebels set against the evil Empire. The Jedi become the superheroes they never were except in the popular consciousness. The whole film really is Rian Johnson's liberal fantasy. The act of gesturing at subversive ideas becomes subversion itself. TLJ is a film that narrows the galactic conflict to pure good versus irredeemable evil on purpose, but it buys goodwill for itself by pretending to embrace new ideas until its final act.

A) That's kind of the point. Luke becomes a symbol - because that's all he can do. He's not actually there. He's an illusion. If Kylo or someone else in the First Order had taken half a second to toss a rock through Luke, they'd have confirmed that they could safelt ignore him and kill the rest of the Resistance. Luke had "magnificent power" because the First Order built him up and such in their minds.

B) Those fifteen people are united by a common vision as well as bonds of grief, suffering and trust. The First Order is riven by doubt and suspicion. They'll be tearing themselves apart. And even if Leia doesn't have any friends, Kylo Ren is about to make the First Order a poo poo ton of enemies. And the enemy of my enemy...

c) The charming, cocksure pilot is one of the main reasons that the Resistance is down to fifteen people on the Falcon. Poe knows it, too. He knows how badly he hosed this up and he's learned from it.

D) In TFA Finn rejects his life up to that point to embrace one outside of the First Order. He meets and connects with Rey, ultimately tricking the Resistance into helping him rescue her. The big connection Finn maintains at the beginning of TLJ is with Rey. It's not about cowardice with Finn. He's made the judgement call that the Resistance is hosed. If Rey comes back to the Resistance, she'll also be hosed. So, he wants to get away from them to warn her away. Finn's arc in TLJ isn't about courage, exactly. It's about broadening the connection/attachment he has to one person to include other people around him.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Just realizing something. As of TROS, Cal Kestis isn't dead :woop:

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

I don’t doubt it, but I have an aversion to TV in general. Plus, as you can see, that stuff is already in the films.

Sure, Rogue One is based on the opening text of Episode 4 - but it was also twist on that text, revealing the “Rebel Spies” were not really spies, and only loosely affiliated to the Rebellion.


The red arm in TFA, of course, stood for the red hand of communism, disrupting the organic unity of the Galactic body.

So the presumably-unintentional joke is that, when C3PO becomes fully gold at the end, this actually signals Snoke’s victory.

Hannibal would make you change your mind about TV.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Nor is some random schlub named Maz Kanata

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqoNKCCt7A

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN
Rey:
“Boo hoo [self-pity]; I don’t have a last name. I’m nobody, because I never bothered to investigate my parents’ disappearance. I mean, I was briefly curious about what happened to them, but I lost interest when I heard they were poor & had alcoholism.”

Fans:
“Wow, Rey was personally blessed with superpowers by God, despite having worthless poor parents that nobody cares about. Truly the force is democratized.”

Snoke:
“I don’t have a last name because I’m a replicant, like in Blade Runner. I don’t have parents because I was never born. I was mass-produced in a factory, designed to be the ultimate slave. I emerged from the machine an adult, my every thought pre-programmed. These scars and deformities are cosmetic, assigned to me by a cruel Maker. My very existence calls the nature of free will into question. Do I even have memories?

Anywho, I’m stronger than Rey. Turns out anyone can have superpowers thanks to genetic engineering. We really ought make this tech available to everyone; you can cure all disease, videochat literally anywhere, and somehow teleport obj- [Snoke is killed].”

Fans:
“WTF Rey’s parents had names???”

Darko posted:

Hannibal would make you change your mind about TV.

I have, like, seen TV shows. Hannibal is quite good, but season three is not better than the films it remakes (i.e. the Ridley Scott film and Manhunter).

The issue is that TV narratives almost never consist of a series of standalone episodes and/or function as cohesive roughly-ten-hour multi-part videos. They tend to occupy this nebulous area between the two, with ‘previously on...’ montages serving as a stopgap.

Lucas’ films are really the ideal of what TV could be, because you can watch any episode and that’s it. You get a complete narrative.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.
Finn:
"Technically, I don't even have a first name."

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013

Halloween Jack posted:

According to the new comic book, yes. They're sensitives who don't have proper training, so their powers just make them better fighters and they can, like, bend a spoon.
Thank you.
So I guess they weren't Luke's other students after all. I take it they're all just dead.

Pollyanna posted:

Just realizing something. As of TROS, Cal Kestis isn't dead :woop:
Why?

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.



Cuz he's a Jedi and he didn't show up at the end to talk to Rey. Okay, he might not be dead, anyway.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!
Buglord

Angry Salami posted:

Finn:
"Technically, I don't even have a first name."

CATS and star wars are the same plot. Everyone saying their various names so they can pick who is killed.

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Pollyanna posted:

Cuz he's a Jedi and he didn't show up at the end to talk to Rey. Okay, he might not be dead, anyway.

Ahsoka talked to Rey, and they have confirmed that she is still alive at that point. So there's absolutely no consistency.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Well poo poo then lol.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

PeterWeller posted:

Ahsoka talked to Rey, and they have confirmed that she is still alive at that point. So there's absolutely no consistency.

They didn't even say she's still alive, that would've been slightly better. What they said was some non-committal answer about dead characters not necessarily having to stay dead or something like that. It's like, yea we know that? Of course you can bring a dead character back, but that's not the question. Ashoka IS dead, currently, is she not? They haven't answered that question.

My read on it is that they threw her in there just to fill out the numbers and then the fan reaction made them realize that it was a mistake and that not using Ashoka in the future would be a missed opportunity(for fan service).

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
They don't know the answer to that question because they have nothing planned out. What do you expect them to say?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

feedmyleg posted:

They don't know the answer to that question because they have nothing planned out. What do you expect them to say?

"Yea, she's dead just like the rest of the dead Jedi from that scene".

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Basebf555 posted:

They didn't even say she's still alive, that would've been slightly better. What they said was some non-committal answer about dead characters not necessarily having to stay dead or something like that. It's like, yea we know that? Of course you can bring a dead character back, but that's not the question. Ashoka IS dead, currently, is she not? They haven't answered that question.

My read on it is that they threw her in there just to fill out the numbers and then the fan reaction made them realize that it was a mistake and that not using Ashoka in the future would be a missed opportunity(for fan service).

Oh, that is even worse. My thought was that they put her in for fan service without considering the implications or how they might upset fans.


Basebf555 posted:

"Yea, she's dead just like the rest of the dead Jedi from that scene".

And there's nothing unsatisfying about this.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

SuperMechagodzilla posted:


I have, like, seen TV shows. Hannibal is quite good, but season three is not better than the films it remakes (i.e. the Ridley Scott film and Manhunter).

The issue is that TV narratives almost never consist of a series of standalone episodes and/or function as cohesive roughly-ten-hour multi-part videos. They tend to occupy this nebulous area between the two, with ‘previously on...’ montages serving as a stopgap.

Lucas’ films are really the ideal of what TV could be, because you can watch any episode and that’s it. You get a complete narrative.

The Wire and Spartacus work as continuous 10-ish hour narratives without a previously-on necessary.

On the flip side, Lucas TV is probably at its best in some contained 3-4 episode arcs of Clone Wars which just work as a contained movie (moreso than the Clone Wars movie), even though they have a blatant previously-on narrator at the start of each episode that makes sure you remember what happened in the last one (for the kids). Rebels is altogether "good" for very good high points and decent character arcs, but it suffers a bit from jumping around and lack of focus to be episodic or not at times, which gets into what you say.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
Lucas TV is at its best with Young Indiana Jones (dvd cuts), which are also completely self-contained stories.

feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jan 8, 2020

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I want those Lucas Star Wars TV scripts so bad.

Darth TNT
Sep 20, 2013
There shouldn't be too many Jedi kicking around the universe though. It messes up the story.
Ahsoka needs to be dead for it to work

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TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012

Darth TNT posted:

There shouldn't be too many Jedi kicking around the universe though. It messes up the story.
Ahsoka needs to be dead for it to work

Or just not a Jedi

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