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Regalingualius posted:By TOR’s accounting, they did! I think the latter is the answer TOR gives. So Taris isn't "destroyed" so much as Upper Taris is "razed to the ground". TOR takes place 300(?) years after the events of the KOTOR games and Taris is a place you visit. So yeah, Rukil Old-as-poo poo is for sure dead, but there are certainly still a sizable population of Tarisians left alive after this massive bombardment. I think there was enough of a shakeup that the lines between under city dwellers and upper level nobles got blurred and the class wars kind of settled themselves, but I didn't read that deeply in the supplemental lore. BTW, Rakghouls are still a "thing" and they factor in to both the plotline of that planet as well as a recurring event where they end up on other planets through either mind boggling incompetence or stupendous malice.
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Jan 12, 2020 04:32
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While Force users can sense other Force users and concentrations of power, they can only do it as the plot demands. Or so it seems to me a lot of the time anyway.
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Jan 12, 2020 06:44
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Oh Taris, how I loathe thee. Also, I do like the dialogue you get sometimes randomly from your companios together. I love Mission and Bastila's the most.
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Jan 12, 2020 07:06
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God, I feel sorry for that dude we rescued at the Sith base. Helps us out, gets sentenced to death for it, barely gets saved from that, then dies like 2 hours later from an orbital bombardment.
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Jan 12, 2020 07:15
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Please not that upon leaving Taris, we have 6 out of the 9 party members on our select screen. They give you 2/3rds of your group before leaving the first planet. Balance? What's that?
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Jan 12, 2020 07:17
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I’m just wondering if any of the three will be memorable characters. Mission and Big Z are cool, but they also seem kinda one note. The droid is a blank slate we can’t understand, Canderous is one note so far, and Carth is... Carth. Bastila has Jennifer Hale voice, pretty face, but is also spoiled arrogant. There’s not really a Firefly or Guardians of the Galaxy vibe amongst this crew.
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Jan 12, 2020 07:25
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One of the three will be very memorable. But we'll see that one when we get there. Hopefully they get some time in the party.
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Jan 12, 2020 07:48
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I tended to mainstay combo'ing MIssion and Bastila together a lot. Mission got a lot of work with stealth attack while Bastila would go defensive. That was my mainstay around now.
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Jan 12, 2020 07:51
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MechaCrash posted:One of the three will be very memorable. But we'll see that one when we get there. Hopefully they get some time in the party. They’re also pretty much the definition of “one-note”, even if Bioware apparently liked them so much that they turned into another ever-present trope in their games.
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Jan 12, 2020 09:03
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mateo360 posted:Please not that upon leaving Taris, we have 6 out of the 9 party members on our select screen. They give you 2/3rds of your group before leaving the first planet. Balance? What's that? I mean the alternative is one of the party members that can get picked up literally an hour away from endgame and then never used at all because why lol. achtungnight posted:I’m just wondering if any of the three will be memorable characters. Mission and Big Z are cool, but they also seem kinda one note. The droid is a blank slate we can’t understand, Canderous is one note so far, and Carth is... Carth. Bastila has Jennifer Hale voice, pretty face, but is also spoiled arrogant. There’s not really a Firefly or Guardians of the Galaxy vibe amongst this crew.
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Jan 12, 2020 10:52
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TitanG posted:At least they get time to develop character (hurr hurr) The only optional character is the one everyone loves. The most interesting of the three is required to progress about midway through his section after the game opens up. So you can bump into him pretty fast depending on where you explored first.
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Jan 12, 2020 11:01
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Yeah, you can pick him up really fast - or you can pick him up literally at the last point before endgame and just skip him because you're bored of everyone at that point (he's also mechanically redundant tbh), plus most of his story is elsewhere. Getting 6/9 pretty fast at least ensures you can TitanG fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 11:57
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Good riddance Taris you giant ball of garbage.
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Jan 12, 2020 12:06
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Personally I'm in the camp where I think almost all of your party members should be frontloaded in an RPG, so you can decide what to do with them. That has its drawbacks, but getting one over halfway through a game really annoys me because I don't have time to care about them before the climax of the story.
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Jan 12, 2020 12:28
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Thotimx posted:Personally I'm in the camp where I think almost all of your party members should be frontloaded in an RPG, so you can decide what to do with them. That has its drawbacks, but getting one over halfway through a game really annoys me because I don't have time to care about them before the climax of the story. I agree. Only way you should be getting party members late is if they were recurring NPCs or antagonists beforehand, so you already know them.
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Jan 12, 2020 13:45
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Agreed. I’m willing to make exceptions for people with cool abilities and zero personality- looking at you, FF6- but somehow I expect more out of a Star Wars RPG. Ah well, enough hints. I’ll wait for the LP updates to find out more.
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Jan 12, 2020 14:15
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achtungnight posted:I’m just wondering if any of the three will be memorable characters. Mission and Big Z are cool, but they also seem kinda one note. The droid is a blank slate we can’t understand, Canderous is one note so far, and Carth is... Carth. Bastila has Jennifer Hale voice, pretty face, but is also spoiled arrogant. There’s not really a Firefly or Guardians of the Galaxy vibe amongst this crew.  VVVV Yep, I can't for the life of me remember who the right hand side one is. Groetgaffel fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 14:34
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Groetgaffel posted:I don't even remember who the third one is. Honestly, same I know the left and the center. Totally forgot the one on the right.
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Jan 12, 2020 14:37
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The Cathar one whose name I've honestly forgotten.
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Jan 12, 2020 14:47
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Left is obvious, but I have no clue who the middle one is at all and can only think of the model of the one on the right, not the name Only KOTOR characters that really stuck with me through the years was the main character, middle-left, Mission, Carth and Canderous. Carth only because I dislike him so much
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Jan 12, 2020 15:47
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Part 11: The Three Trials Last time, we narrowly escaped Taris aboard our new ship Ebon Hawk, as the Sith began their orbital bombardment of the planet. I like to think that the Sith are such poor shots that they somehow missed all the people we helped, if only to try and convince myself all the content on Taris was worth doing.    Even the Sith would think twice before attacking Dantooine. There are many Jedi here, including several of the most powerful Masters of the Order. There is great strength within this place. Both Carth and Bastila have solid enough points, but we need to contact the Jedi Council anyway to make sense of these visions we've been having, and discuss our potential Force sensitivity. We should be fine for now.   Maybe you're right. It isn't easy to witness the annihilation of an entire planet. I know Mission must be taking it pretty hard. She will find a way to come to terms with her grief. She is stronger than she appears. We just need to give her time. Now I must go speak with the Council. I need their advice on... recent developments. After I have met with them I will meet you outside the ship.I would recommend we land on the planet first.   First mentioned in A New Hope, Dantooine has appeared in various Star Wars expanded universe media over the years, including in the Tales of the Jedi comics most of this game's background lore is mined from, but the first time I got a proper look at it was in KotOR. The lush grasslands of Dantooine are also a very welcome change of scenery after eight hours on Taris.   Here we are. The Jedi enclave.  Uh, okay then. Lead the way.  I'm sorry, Carth, but I cannot tell you. All I ask is that you trust in the Force and the wisdom of the Council. Well, I don't like being left out of the loop, but I'm not looking to get you in any trouble with the Jedi Masters. We'll do things your way for a while.Carth is not happy to be left out of the loop when it comes to all this Jedi business, but he doesn't have much of a choice. He should get used to the feeling, because he basically disappears from the plot for the next 15 hours.   Okay fine we're going  Right. We could talk to the Twi'lek to our left, but there will be plenty of talking in this update as is so I'll leave him for later. Even if you do talk to him here, he'll just repeat the same lines next time around.  So, we'll keep heading towards the Council chambers.   l have not heard of any new apprentices being accepted for training recently. What brings you to this place, if I may ask?  That... isn't really how that went down.    Same to you, Deesra.  At this point, I'm entirely sick of looking at the fashion disasters that are the headgear in KotOR, so I'm unequipping our Verpine headband right now. I also didn't show off what Davik's visor does, so here it is. The answer, it turns out, is "gets sold to a merchant for a large sum of credits."  Here's the central courtyard of the Jedi enclave. We see a named NPC, so we're clearly about to have another conversation.  Do we look like a Padawan?  We don't even have the silly Padawan braid. Come to think of it, neither does Bastila who actually is a Padawan. Maybe that was a later invention. I'm sure there is a 40,000-word Wookieepedia article I could consult to find the answer, but I'd rather not.   But as for you... you claim you are not a Padawan? I find this hard to believe. The Force is strong within you. I can feel its presence. If this is some type of jest, it is in very poor taste. The Jedi Order is not a subject for jokes. Please forgive the abruptness with which I first greeted you. It was harsh, and perhaps unfair. My Master often warns me I must learn to control my emotions. I see I have much left to learn. I wish you a pleasant stay here on Dantooine. May the Force be with you. We'll have another chat with Belaya later, but right now we should stop wasting time and go meet with the Jedi Council already. They'll be right past this door.  So, naturally, we take the door to the north instead. This leads to the guest rooms.  NO  Okay, fine. Carry on.  Thank you, Carth.   Sorry about the repeated lines here, I just wanted to get shots of all the important Jedi.  Here's Master Vrook Lamar, better known as Master Ed Asner because he's voiced by Ed Asner.  Master Vandar is there because come on, this is Star Wars and the Jedi are involved so of course we need Yoda in this thing. That's really the extent of Vandar's character. He's also voiced by Tom Kane, who's done Yoda's voice in a lot of Star Wars stuff including the Clone Wars series, but speaks regular English (or Basic) instead of using similar speech patterns to Yoda's. Vandar actually has a surname (Tokare), which is interesting because members of Yoda's species generally don't have those.  Master Dorak is so forgettable I can't even remember his last name. Hold on a sec while I check Wookieepedia... oh. He actually doesn't have a last name. That'll explain why I didn't remember it.  Naturally, we'll start with the important questions.  Makes sense. Of course, the only Jedi Council the audience would be familiar with at this point is the one on Coruscant in the prequels, so it's nice you get the option to ask about that.    Let's not make it about ourselves just yet.   With this power she can swing the tide of nearly any battle in our favor. Which is why Malak was seeking her so fervently. And if he could not have her, he would see her destroyed. Taris was just in the way. We need Bastila in our fight against the Sith. Indeed, we need every Jedi we can muster, since the Sith have been hunting us down at every opportunity. Which brings us to you...  I thought we were too old.  Also, when they come out and say it like that, we're suddenly not so certain if we can handle it. Sure, we're pretty good at what we do, but are we ready to shoulder the responsibility that comes with being a Jedi? (The actual reason I picked this option was that I didn't like the bootlicker option at the top or the "Strong in the Force?" option at the bottom. We know we're strong in the Force, Bastila said as much)   Vrook doesn't seem quite as convinced as his fellow Masters.   Vrook is a dick.  The Jedi training is long and difficult, even when working with a young and open mind. Teaching a child is hard. How much harder will it be for an adult to learn the ways of the Jedi? Here, we get another excellent set of dialogue choices. "  Eh, I guess I'll give it a shot" " gently caress YOU, TRAIN ME AND STOP CALLING ME OLD", and literally "[Lie] Of course, great Jedi. I will learn your ways and follow the light." The latter is the first of many opportunities to lie to the Council if you're a dark side character, but picking it here doesn't give you any dark side points. The most notable example around this time period would be Nomi Sunrider, who became a Jedi after the (unintentionally hilarious) death of her Jedi husband and ended up doing pretty well for herself in general. I'll have more to say about the Sunriders later.  Are you certain Revan is truly dead? What if we undertake to train this one, and the Dark Lord should return? We should discuss this matter more fully in private. Bastila, you and your companion must go. This is a matter for the Council alone. That didn't really seem to go anywhere, although we at least know the Council is considering us for Jedi training and we're ready to give it a shot if they decide to train us.  So, for now, we'll return to the Ebon Hawk and get some rest. Zila doesn't look like she's resting too comfortably, though. We've seen this happen before. VIDEO: Revan and Malak in the Ruins  Yet another vision, this time of Revan and Malak. We can't really tell what they're doing, but they seem to be exploring some sort of ruin.  That's our first glimpse of Malak without his jaw contraption.   Presumably, what we're watching is the moment Revan and Malak went over to the dark side or at least started on that path.  Revan doesn't care about Malak's protests, knowing that Malak will fall in line.  The decision has been made. Whatever this Star Forge is, Revan wants it.  As the soon-to-be Sith Lords find what they're searching for, the vision fades.  Well, Bastila did mention that you should go to the Council chambers before she left. It is no doubt urgent, so you shouldn't keep them waiting. Did she say anything else? No, she didn't. She didn't seem well, as I recall... and for that matter neither do you. Are you alright? Nothing to worry about, I'm sure.   We can pick our party members here. It doesn't really matter who we pick at this point (if anyone), so we'll just take T3 and Zaalbar and get going.  I went to visit this merchant near the Ebon Hawk first, but he didn't have anything that caught my eye. The one item from him I actually want (more like need) is in fact not in the original Xbox version. It was added to the PC version, and apparently was also included in a balance patch you could download via Xbox Live but that patch never made it to the backwards compatible version. So, we're not getting Calrissian's Utility Belt (previously owned by a Galduran Calrissian, who had to sell off his belongings to ensure he wouldn't be the last Calrissian in the galaxy), which is a shame because that essentially means I cannot get our Repair skill high enough to access some content (which, thankfully, is really just dialogue and I found a full transcript so it will get shown off). The vanilla game on Xbox literally has no Repair-boosting equipment! Anyway, back to the Council.   These ruins have long been known to us, but we believed them to be merely burial mounds. Perhaps they are more than we first suspected, if Revan and Malak found something there. I think they said something about a Star Forge.   We've been having them since the start of the game!    You and she are linked, as is your fate to hers. Together, you two may be able to stop Darth Malak and the Sith. But do not let your head be filled with visions of glory and power! Such thoughts are the path to the dark side.  Another opportunity to lie if you're a dark side character. I believe this one actually does give you dark side points.  The Sith hunt the Jedi down like animals, ambushing and assassinating our brothers wherever they are found. We fear it is only a matter of time until they discover even this hidden refuge.You know, I'm genuinely amazed by BioWare showing enough restraint not to shoehorn "Do or do not, there is no try" into these conversations with Vandar.   Perhaps our hope lies in the dream you and Bastila shared. The Council has come to the conclusion that you and Bastila must investigate the ancient ruins you dreamed of.That seems like it might be worth a shot.   Being able to lie to the Council is one of the few ideas on the dark side path that are actually kind of cool. Well, at least it would be, if the actual lines they give you weren't ridiculous and didn't sound like you're obviously trying to be a passive-aggressive rear end in a top hat. But hey, passive aggression is a step up from the usual level of dark side writing this game offers you.  Before we send you to investigate the ruins, you must be trained in the ways of the Jedi so that you can resist the darkness within yourself... within all of us. Otherwise you are doomed to fail. It appears the Jedi have no choice but to train us. We're going to have to follow in the footsteps of Revan and Malak, and who knows what's waiting for us out there? We are strong in the Force, that much is obvious, and that also means we'd be a prime target for the dark side if we weren't formally trained to control the Force and our emotions.   Only one way to find out, right?  And so, our Jedi training begins and we are treated to this little montage.  This montage is supposed to take place over the period of maybe two or three weeks. That's not a lot of time for Jedi training.      Despite having such little time for training, we seem to be doing pretty well at this whole Jedi thing, and Master Zhar says as much.    And so, after only a few weeks of intense training, we are officially granted the rank of Jedi apprentice. We obviously still have a long way to go, but you have to start somewhere and it shouldn't take too long until we can take the next step and become a Padawan learner.  Yes, that's what I said, aside from the "prove yourself worthy" part. Let's find out what that entails.  Actually, before we do that, let's ask about Revan and Malak. If we're going to follow in their footsteps, we should probably have some idea what those two were all about. We know a few things, but not nearly enough.  When I was still on Coruscant Revan and Malak often came to me for additional training. In particular, Revan's hunger to learn seemed insatiable. I should have recognized this as a warning sign. But I perceived the young Padawan's lust for knowledge as simple exuberance and eagerness. Revan was my most promising pupil, one I felt sure would someday become a champion of the Jedi Order. What happened? The Jedi Order moved too slowly for Revan and Malak; we were too cautious in their eyes. They always sought to learn far quicker than their Masters felt was prudent. It is one thing to understand a lesson, but to truly comprehend it takes a wisdom that only comes with time. Several years ago, when the Mandalorian threat first arose, Revan and Malak were eager to journey to the Outer Rim to defeat the enemy of the Republic. But the Council felt it best if we moved with care and caution. The true threat, the Council feared, had not yet revealed itself. But Revan would not be dissuaded. Charismatic and powerful, it was inevitable many of the Order would flock to Revan's seemingly noble cause. Malak was the first to join his closest friend. Others soon followed, many of our youngest and brightest, intent on saving the galaxy from the Mandalorian threat.It seems like Revan and Malak had the right idea there, unless we're missing something. So what happened? Does it have to do with the vision we saw?   Their ideals became twisted, their spirits were tainted and they fell to the dark side. There is a lesson in this, a lesson you would do well to take to heart: the dark side can corrupt even the most noble of Jedi. That is clearly not the full story, though.  But that is enough about Revan and Malak for now, because we need to prove ourselves so we can become a proper Jedi.    First I will test your knowledge of the Jedi Code. These tenets must always guide your actions, in everything you do you must always be conscious of their wisdom. You must prove you have a Jedi's understanding 0f the Code. Return when you feel you are ready for this challenge.The Jedi Code... sounds important. Surely that must have come up in the writings at some point. Maybe Bastila can remind us.  Thanks.  I was trying to talk to Vandar, not him, but whatever. Vrook must know the Jedi Code, so let's ask him and hope he doesn't bite our head off.   Well, no, because none of you apparently found it important enough to teach us in the last two weeks!  Learn these truths, apprentice... or we shall all regret the decision to accept you into the Order.Seems simple enough, so simple in fact that nothing about the Code even needs to be explained further. If it was that simple, why didn't they just tell us about the Code on our first lesson?  As a chronicler of the Academy here on Dantooine, I feel it is my duty to share the history of our Order with the newly initiated. Unfortunately, our recent history is one of tragedy and bloodshed. The Mandalorian Wars, the fall of Revan and Malak, the rise of the Sith: there are important lessons to be learned from these events if we do not wish to repeat the mistakes of our past. I am eager to learn, Master Dorak. Of course I could not tell you the entire history of our Order; the Jedi have existed for thousands upon thousands of years. We are as old as the Republic itself. Instead, I will begin forty years ago with the war of Exar Kun. Like Malak and Revan, Exar Kun was a Jedi who fell to the dark side and led an army against the Jedi and the Republic.Exar Kun's fall is also covered in the Tales of the Jedi comics.   Twenty years ago the Mandalorians, aware the Republic was in a weakened state, began conquering small worlds on the Outer Rim. They were careful to choose only planets outside the Republic's jurisdiction. After much debate, the Senate chose not to intervene. As long as the Mandalorians avoided planets that were members of the Republic itself, there would be no retaliation.Clearly, there was no way this could ever backfire on the Republic.   The Mandalorians stockpiled resources from their conquered worlds, preparing for a massive assault. Seven years ago they launched a simultaneous attack in three separate sectors of Republic space. The Senate had no choice but to retaliate with the entire Republic fleet. The Mandalorian Wars had begun.Had the Republic intervened sooner, the Mandalorians would not have been able to stockpile all the resources they needed for a full-scale assault. Hindsight is of course 20/20 and it's understandable that they didn't want to throw a bunch of ships and men at the Mandalorians in some remote corner of the galaxy where the Republic didn't even have jurisdiction, especially so soon after the Exar Kun war, but as it is they really got caught with their pants down by the Mandalorians. Where were the Jedi in all this, anyway?   While the Jedi Council preached patience, there were many among our Order who were eager for us to join the battle. Two young Knights in particular demanded immediate action: Revan and Malak. They rallied many of the Jedi to their cause and, against the wishes of their Masters, joined the Republic fleet battling the Mandalorians. Revan was a brilliant military leader, and the Republic fleet began to win victory after victory. Four years ago the Mandalorians surrendered unconditionally.So, Revan and Malak saved everyone's rear end while the Council was too busy doing nothing.   Instead of returning after the war's end, the ships under Revan's command went deep into unexplored space. They claimed to be searching for the last remnants of the Mandalorian fleet. All contact was lost. For many months it was assumed some great disaster had befallen the entire fleet. Everyone thought they were dead. There were unsubstantiated rumors of Revan and Malak being seen on a number of different planets during these months - scattered sightings that were never confirmed. Perhaps they simply went far beyond the edges of Republic space. Maybe they found previously undiscovered hyperspace routes to the ends of the galaxy. Nobody knows for certain. Three years ago, Revan and Malak returned at the head of a massive invasion fleet. Revan had assumed the title of Sith Lord; the hero had become a conqueror.  Some of the ships in the Sith fleet are those that were under Revan's command during the Mandalorian Wars. But many more are of an alien design we have never seen before. The source of the Sith soldiers is, unfortunately, much easier to understand. Initially the bulk of the force were former Republic soldiers who had served under Revan. With each conquest thousands more flocked to join the invaders, swelling their numbers. Even many of our own Order have betrayed us, lured by Sith promises of riches and power.  In desperation we set a trap for the Dark Lord. Bastila was with the strike team that tried to capture Revan, as you probably know. She was there at Revan's end. That was nearly a year ago, but things have not improved. Malak has stepped in and assumed the mantle of Dark Lord for himself, though he is far from Revan's equal in strategy or tactics. Still, his fleet continues to grow in both ships and soldiers. If we do not find some way to stop the Sith soon, Malak will overwhelm us with sheer numbers.That is an important note - Malak is not nearly as good at his job as Revan was, but the Sith have such vast resources at their disposal that Malak can pretty much brute-force the whole thing and still win the war. If Revan was still calling the shots, I bet the Sith wouldn't have destroyed Taris. Malak got frustrated and decided to burn everything down, figuring that if he can't get Bastila alive he'll just blow up the entire planet and her with it, but Revan would probably have understood that Bastila is too important an asset to simply destroy and would've come up with some other plan.  Revan's tale shows us how even the greatest of Jedi can fall to the dark side. You must always be on guard against the evil that dwells within you. Think hard upon this lesson. I will think on this, Master Dorak. May the Force be with you.Right, that was the long version of the recent history of the Jedi Order.   l have faith that you will achieve the rank of Padawan soon. Master Zhar is most impressed with your progress. May the Force be with you, apprentice.Okay, thanks, but we want to ask Vandar here some questions as well.    Bastila was there when Revan was slain. Did you know that?Uh, yeah. We've been told that several times, like just now by Master Dorak.  Or I guess we'll say that then. Sure.  But Bastila knew she had to set her personal feelings aside for the sake of the galaxy and the Republic. The Force is strong with her now, and without her skill in Battle Meditation we would have lost this war long ago. The way ahead will be difficult for young Bastila... and for you. But you must draw strength from each other. May the Force be with you. Is there anything you can tell me about Revan and Malak? Obviously we got the full story from Master Dorak already, but it might be useful to hear what the other Masters can tell us about Revan and Malak.  And when Revan fell to the dark side it was inevitable Malak would fall as well. It does seem like Revan was the one making the decisions and Malak just followed along, so it makes sense he'd follow his friend to the dark side as well.  Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master. Only you and Bastila together can stop Malak now.  Fair enough. Let's go ask Master Vrook himself what he thinks about Revan and Malak, or about us.  What can you tell me about Bastila? Bastila? The young Jedi holds great promise... and great danger. She can do much for both the Republic and the Council. Without her skill in Battle Meditation the Sith armada would have conquered the galaxy long ago. But despite her command of the Force Bastila is still young. She is a Jedi, but she has not attained the rank of Master. The Council would do well to remember this before we lay the fate of the galaxy on her slender shoulders.Despite being the resident curmudgeon, Master Vrook is also the only one who seems to have any concern towards Bastila as a person rather than the Jedi's greatest weapon against the Sith, and the only one who dares suggest that hey, maybe the Jedi and the Republic shouldn't be so quick to put all this responsibility on a young Padawan who hasn't fully mastered her powers yet.    When the Mandalorian invasion came, Revan seized the opportunity it presented. Many Jedi flocked to the Outer Rim to follow the charismatic young Knight... and many fell under the sway of the dark side. What happened on the Outer Rim to corrupt Revan? I do not believe Revan and Malak were corrupted on the Outer Rim. They had begun their journey down the dark path long before the Mandalorian threat appeared. Here on Dantooine they discovered a sinister cave, a place where the strength of the dark side overwhelms the light. Perhaps this discovery was what first corrupted them... or perhaps they sought the cave out because they were already corrupted. Whatever the explanation, the Order was unable to turn them back to the light. Had the Council taken more decisive action in this matter, perhaps Revan and Malak could have been stopped. But in this we failed.Interesting. Master Vrook seems to think there was always something dark inside Revan and Malak, and whatever they found out there on the Outer Rim was just a continuation of the path the two were already on. While he's blaming the Council for not acting in time to stop Revan and Malak, I doubt any attempts at doing so would've had much success.   Now the Republic may be destroyed because we, the Jedi, have failed them. Revan and Malak were paragons of the ideals the Order seeks to uphold, yet they succumbed to the temptations of the dark side. When Revan fell, Malak took up the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith. Should Malak be stopped, what is to stop another Jedi from taking his place? This is the burden we Masters must carry. Only through strict training and relentless lessons can we prevent the Dark Master from being reborn. That is why the Order can brook no failure in our apprentices and pupils. That is why I can accept nothing but perfection from you.Right. Harsh but fair, I suppose. But enough about that, because it's time for us to take the first of the three tests!  There is no emotion... There is peace. There is no ignorance... There is knowledge. There is no passion... There is serenity. There is no chaos... There is harmony. There is no death...  Excellent. What's next?  I like where this is going.  The blade is made of pure energy, focused by polished crystals in the hilt. As the second test, each Jedi must construct her lightsaber with her own hands. And now it is your time. Speak with Master Dorak and he will guide you through the choosing of a crystal. The time has come for you to choose the color of your lightsaber. This color also reflects your demeanor and position within the Order.  Yellow is the color of the Jedi Sentinel. This Jedi ferrets out deceit and injustice, bringing it to light. They focus less on combat and more on other skills and abilities. Green is the color of the Jedi Consular. This Jedi seeks to bring balance to the universe. They mediate between other groups, using their powers to end conflict and preserve peace. The Jedi Consular is the one that gets the most Force powers to play with, so naturally we're choosing that.  A woman and her small child are beset by a desperate-looking group of thugs. They are menacing her with weapons and she screams to you for help. What do you do? Do we really need this aptitude test? We know what we want. Anyway, yes, generally you'll want to figure out the situation before you cleave anyone in half with a lightsaber.  You are in combat with a Dark Jedi allied with the Sith. There is a pause in the combat. What do you do? While attacking him again or trying to turn him from the dark side in the middle of a saber fight is all well and good, it seems like it'd be a better idea to find a weakness in the Dark Jedi's technique, potentially allowing us to neutralize him without using lethal force and capture him.  There is a locked door and your goal lies on the other side. What do you do?That really depends on the situation. Are we breaking into a Sith base here, or just trying to get through a locked door?  Because unless we're specifically breaking in or know for a fact there is someone hostile behind the door, why wouldn't we knock first?  You are the head of an Enclave on a contested world. The Dark Jedi have infiltrated and are causing unrest across the planet. What do you do? Well, we could try to hunt them down, that is the first option. Or we could lure them out to a trap, that might work too. However, since we are dealing with infiltrators here, it would help us considerably to actually identify them before we do anything drastic.  As I suspected, you would be most suitable as a Jedi Consular. Which color and path do you believe yourself most suited to, apprentice? Jedi Consular, just like we said in the first place.  And with that, we unlock our prestige class.  This is why you may want to save some of your levelups on Taris, as more Jedi levels means more powers to work with.  That's the last STR point we'll take, any remaining extra attribute points we get will go into WIS.  I'm still working on improving our Repair skill for one very specific purpose, but that purpose is essentially doomed without Calrissian's Utility Belt being available. Consulars, you see, only get one skill point each level regardless of their INT, and there literally aren't enough points available for us to get enough Repair points without the accessory, especially since our 10 INT means we don't get an INT modifier for skills. I'll keep putting points into Repair for now, but in a few hours I will realize it was all for naught and will start investing in Persuade again, although there's no functional difference between Persuade rank 13 and 18 and I probably won't be able to make it to the next threshold. Oh well.  Weapon Proficiency: Lightsaber means we can now wield lightsabers, as you probably figured out by now. Jedi Defense allows us to deflect blaster bolts. We also gain Force Focus (adds to the difficulty class of saving throws against our Force powers), Jedi Sense (passive +2 Defense), and Force Sensitive which adds 40 Force points to our base total.  For our feat this level, we'll grab Improved Critical Strike to triple the critical threat range of our melee attacks, as opposed to doubling it like regular Critical Strike did.   And then, our first Force powers. Cure and Force Push are basic powers we'll make use of a lot, of course.  Now that we have the Force well and truly coursing through our veins, we can build our lightsaber.  Apparently, all you need to do to construct a lightsaber is to just mess around at the workbench a bit, which is somewhat anticlimactic. In more recent media, you see Jedi manipulate the Force to put all the parts together.  There we go. The emulation on the Xbox One release has a minor glitch with the borders of the alpha texture around the lightsaber blade in this screen (and sometimes the whole blade will disappear for a split second), but none of this is a problem during actual gameplay. Anyway, lightsabers can be upgraded with a variety of crystals. The focusing crystal in the middle just determines the color of the saber (with a couple of notable exceptions), with the other two slots reserved for crystals that will actually alter the stats of the weapon.  Building your first lightsaber in this game is still very satisfying despite the lackluster workbench animations. I also discovered that the Y button is the one that lets you twirl your weapon around on command, which is of course all-important. For some reason, it didn't seem to be working earlier, but it does now!  These crystals are very rare, found only in certain caves strong in the Force. By adding crystals to your lightsaber you can alter or enhance its properties. There have even been unconfirmed rumors of certain Force-sensitive caves here on Dantooine that may hold these crystals.  But you must learn first to use your lightsaber and take care when drawing it. Your lightsaber identifies you as a member of the Jedi Order. With such recognition comes honor and respect... and the attention of dangerous enemies. The Sith and Dark Jedi will seek to destroy you, apprentice. And you must prove yourself worthy in battle against a foe who also wields a lightsaber. Are you ready to face the final challenge, apprentice? Let's hear it.  Even here on Dantooine there are places where the dark side holds sway, twisting and tainting nature itself. The ancient grove once used for deep meditation by the Jedi is now tainted, a wave of darkness perverts the region around it. The kath hounds in the area have become savage and ruthless. They have become a threat to the settlers, a threat the Jedi have promised to stop.  That's it? Not much to go on.   But remember this, my young apprentice: a Jedi acts with patience and care, and those on the dark path are not always lost forever. The dark side still taints the ancient grove. Your lessons cannot continue until the spreading corruption of the dark side has been stopped. This is your task, apprentice. May the Force be with you. Okay. Well, we don't really know what we're meant to be doing, aside from some vague idea of cleansing the taint in this ancient grove, but we'd better get on that anyway.  Soon, he feels, you will attain the rank of Padawan. Then you will truly be a full-fledged Jedi. How are you enjoying your training?First off, we'll have a quick chat with Belaya.  Maybe she knows about those caves Zhar mentioned.  I wish you luck in your training, apprentice. There is much you must yet learn. May the Force be with you.I'm sure we can handle whatever is in there.  Just a quick look at the quest journal before we finish up here. Not much information about our task in there either.   Zaalbar also gained a level, so I chose to have him follow his true calling as a computer toucher. He also learns Uncanny Dodge 2 (retains DEX bonus to Defense even if ambushed by camouflaged enemies), and we give him the Dueling feat to improve his melee attacks with single one-handed weapons.  Finally, we'll equip the prototype vibroblade in our off hand to boost our damage output. We'll replace it with another lightsaber when we find one, but for now the vibroblade will do fine.  Right. Time to embark on our first adventure as a member of the Jedi Order.  This is where we'll stop for today. I was hoping to get to some action in this update, but the Jedi talk so much there just wasn't enough room. Oh well, we'll more than make up for that soon enough! DMorbid fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 18:26
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This next part is where I stopped playing the game because it made my PC chug like crazy back in the day. It's also the only part I really remember of the game as well for some reason.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:50
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Cooked Auto posted:This next part is where I stopped playing the game because it made my PC chug like crazy back in the day.  As far as I know, adding that line doesn't change anything in terms of visuals, just makes the grasslands of Dantooine actually playable.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:56
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I was wondering what was going on in Dantooine last time I booted this up and dropped down to four-ish fps. Thanks, Doc. Also, by saying Zaalbar is a computer toucher, does this mean he's now the Droid Whisperer?
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Jan 12, 2020 19:02
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I don't think the Jedi ever once say what they think should have happened to stop the Mandalorians. They just kinda go 'Well see, Revan and Malak happened! So we were right to do nothing!' without a hint of thinking about it further.
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Jan 12, 2020 19:13
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Ah, this is what I was waiting for. It's not much of a surprise to say "and then you become a Jedi," because unless not being a Jedi is the point it's kind of inevitable, but it's nice to not have to dance around it and say "the prestige class" anymore. Which is a thing that mildly annoys me. You're asked "what Jedi do you want to become," but never "do you want to be an actual Jedi." Did you spend all this time building to be a gunslinger? Well, gently caress you, those feats are wasted, unless you decide to stick with guns instead of lightsabers, which are so much better than any other combat option that you're hurting yourself pretty badly by not using the 2d8 death weapons. The Force Sensitive thing that gives you +40 Force Points for having to spend a bunch of levels as a non-Jedi is a main character only thing, and it's pretty neat, but as has been stated, there's still a compelling reason to sit on all the levels you pick up during the entirely too long Taris segment. One of the things KOTOR2 fixes is that you're just a Jedi straight from the start, although you can choose to not use lightsabers, and there are bits of the game where not carrying a lightsaber means that people don't know you're a Jedi, which matters. Speaking of main character things, I'm sure we all noticed how hard the game was shoving Bastila at the main character. Since Bioware are of the "I know writers who use subtlety, and they're all cowards" school, yes, this means that a male main character can romance Bastila. It's better than the female main character/Carth one, though, because I don't want to throw Bastila out the nearest airlock. For the off-hand slot, you can eventually get a short-bladed lightsaber, which deals 2d6 but has the Balanced tag, but because of the rarity of the good enhancement crystals and what bonuses they give, a double-bladed lightsaber's better if you can find it. But as the Casty Jedi instead of the Stabby Jedi, I'd give priority on the good poo poo to someone else.
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Jan 12, 2020 19:46
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Jedi's are pretty much the power fantasy of the setting. Which is also why you see them used as the player character in the majority of the Star Wars games, outside of the relative freedom they have as well compared to others. At the same time it's kinda fun to see how much the setting spends to knock on them constantly.
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Jan 12, 2020 20:16
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Night10194 posted:I don't think the Jedi ever once say what they think should have happened to stop the Mandalorians. They just kinda go 'Well see, Revan and Malak happened! So we were right to do nothing!' without a hint of thinking about it further. Yeah, it doesn’t really get looked at too much beyond what we’ve already seen in this game, but it’s one of the major themes and driving questions of KOTOR 2: did the Jedi massively gently caress up by deciding to sit back and wait even after the war finally got started, or were they really correct to wait for the “true threat” to reveal itself to them? And though it’s kind of set dressing in this game, the Mandalorian War is practically a character in and of itself, with how much it continues to affect the entire cast.
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Jan 12, 2020 20:27
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MechaCrash posted:
On PC there's a mod to add female player/Bastila romance. It just disables some checks so all of the dialogue doesn't quite work. But if you haven't played the game yet you should not go looking for it, the title and description contain MASSIVE spoilers. In other news, you inspired me to install this game and start again. I'm going for darkside female playthrough with the aforementioned mod. Should I (try to) post screenshots of some of the more hilariously dickish dark side options?
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Jan 12, 2020 20:41
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I tried being a gunjedi. It did not go well.
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Jan 12, 2020 20:50
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The one thing that kept jumping out at me in that long-rear end Council scene? The Jedi have apparently done squat on their home planet since landing. Either they're so hosed that they can't spare a single apprentice/Jedi for a week OR they're total  .They had apparently already known about the ancient ruins, but wrote them off as burial mounds without doing any actual investigation. They heard rumors about caves with crystals that can enhance lightsabers which sounds fairly useful when you're literally losing a war, but never even asked around for details. There's a corrupted source of darkness turning wildlife into murderous hounds outside your drat front door which is probably bad for security, but nope, let's just wait on that. (Obviously this is a gameplay thing, but c'mon, at least try to hide the rails here)
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Jan 12, 2020 20:56
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MechaCrash posted:
Mechanically I'm pretty sure dual-wielding is actually the strongest option due to what crystals are available, double-bladed saber is just easier (and cooler). Not like it matters, the game is easy enough. Regalingualius posted:Yeah, it doesn’t really get looked at too much beyond what we’ve already seen in this game, but it’s one of the major themes and driving questions of KOTOR 2: did the Jedi massively gently caress up by deciding to sit back and wait even after the war finally got started, or were they really correct to wait for the “true threat” to reveal itself to them? Also, I got a question for DocM as I had a bad flashback yesterday: do any of the run speed mods/cheats work on your version?
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Jan 12, 2020 21:00
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TitanG posted:Also, I got a question for DocM as I had a bad flashback yesterday: do any of the run speed mods/cheats work on your version? Just spam Force Speed. Your companions will catch up. Eventually.
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Jan 12, 2020 21:09
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TitanG posted:Also, I got a question for DocM as I had a bad flashback yesterday: do any of the run speed mods/cheats work on your version?  turol posted:In other news, you inspired me to install this game and start again. I'm going for darkside female playthrough with the aforementioned mod. Should I (try to) post screenshots of some of the more hilariously dickish dark side options?
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Jan 12, 2020 21:11
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turol posted:Just spam Force Speed. Your companions will catch up. Eventually. I'm not sure it works in THAT sequence Doc M posted:Not to my knowledge, and I don't even have Burst of Speed at this point (I've got most of the game recorded and Zila is currently level 16) because I didn't want to waste a power on that ... you are straight up insane.
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Jan 12, 2020 21:14
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TitanG posted:Mechanically I'm pretty sure dual-wielding is actually the strongest option due to what crystals are available, double-bladed saber is just easier (and cooler). Not like it matters, the game is easy enough. I always thought that using a double-weapon was the best of both worlds, between a using full-sized weapon in each hand and still having the Balanced tag to offset the dual wielding penalty. Have I been missing something glaringly obvious this entire time, or is the normal saber better because of crit-fishing with a keen weapon and Critical Strike? I've always used Flurry as my combat feat of choice, so I've never even considered relying on crits for extra damage, although with the maximum crit chance, I can see now how adding 50% damage (and change) to 4 attacks is better than getting off 5 hits every time, on average.
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Jan 12, 2020 21:14
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You can be a gun jedi in KotOR 2. Ergo, it is a superior game 
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Jan 12, 2020 21:17
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Doc M posted:Not to my knowledge, and I don't even have Burst of Speed at this point (I've got most of the game recorded and Zila is currently level 16) because I didn't want to waste a power on that It makes less difference to a power-focused jedi, but combining dual wielding, flurry/rapid shot, and the strongest speed jedi power lets characters just sort of mulch anything in their way. Admittedly the first level of that power is less impressive since it has no combat benefit, but getting places faster is great.
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Jan 12, 2020 21:19
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Xarn posted:You can be a gun jedi in KotOR 2. Ergo, it is a superior game poo poo, you can be an outright unarmed monk and still do pretty decently with the right feats and powers.
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Jan 12, 2020 21:26
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lightrook posted:I always thought that using a double-weapon was the best of both worlds, between a using full-sized weapon in each hand and still having the Balanced tag to offset the dual wielding penalty. Have I been missing something glaringly obvious this entire time, or is the normal saber better because of crit-fishing with a keen weapon and Critical Strike? I've always used Flurry as my combat feat of choice, so I've never even considered relying on crits for extra damage, although with the maximum crit chance, I can see now how adding 50% damage (and change) to 4 attacks is better than getting off 5 hits every time, on average. As far as I remember the extra bonuses from the special color crystals just about offset the difference. I mean it's honestly academic, you're doing something ridiculous like 4-40 damage on 5 attacks+critical threat anyway, a couple points of damage don't matter in the end. Edit RE: KOTOR2: not force-frying literally everything is playing the game wrong.  
TitanG fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 21:27
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