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Apparently there's some speculation that Kojima's working on a horror game with Masahiro Ito? That would be rad as hell. If it's true I hope he talks Junji Ito into coming aboard too.
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Jan 11, 2020 05:53
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Apparently there's some speculation that Kojima's working on a horror game with Masahiro Ito? That would be rad as hell. If it's true I hope he talks Junji Ito into coming aboard too. Junji was tapped for Silent Hills and is a cameo in this game, so I imagine that it would be kind of a no-brainer.
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Jan 11, 2020 08:05
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J.A.B.C. posted:Junji was tapped for Silent Hills and is a cameo in this game, so I imagine that it would be kind of a no-brainer. Yeah, Kojima + Ito + del Toro is pretty much my dream team collab for a full length horror game, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up just yet. It's bizarre how few good AAA horror games there are, and how many of them seem to just get stuck in development hell or never get past the preliminary planning stage.
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Jan 11, 2020 20:13
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Crossing the tar belt nearly gave me a panic attack.
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Jan 12, 2020 03:46
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crossing the tar belt sounds like it should be the name of the new my chemical romance album
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Jan 12, 2020 03:52
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Maybe I'm just too sappy but the game made me a bit misty eyed (again). I was having a lot of trouble recording a segment for my let's play and was feeling seriously discouraged, and at the end of the take where I finally got everything how I wanted, Sam said "You should have more faith in yourself". Never heard him say that before! I really appreciate that Sam talks to himself sometimes on extended outings, the game would feel much more lonely if he was just quietly effort-grunting his way across the US. edit: Though I do wish he said "gotta stretch my legs" while getting out of vehicles less often. I only drove the bike for a minute it's not like you're gonna be walking bow-legged dude! CJacobs fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jan 12, 2020 |
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Jan 12, 2020 05:15
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Looks like the game is programmed to help out the mules if they get stuck. Cheaters... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN7K8Q8xaTU
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Jan 12, 2020 14:23
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night slime posted:Looks like the game is programmed to help out the mules if they get stuck. Cheaters... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN7K8Q8xaTU Thats extremely Kojima and I love it
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Jan 12, 2020 14:29
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The ocean is scary as gently caress. Whales are scary as gently caress. This game owns so much.
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Jan 12, 2020 18:45
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I just finished reinstalling MGSV on my PS4 and I'm going to replay this incomplete masterpiece. Death Stranding and MGSV share a lot of the same DNA... or should I say memes.
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Jan 12, 2020 19:37
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That whole ending sequence...wow.
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Jan 12, 2020 22:21
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I thought today's episode of "How Did This Get Played" on Death Stranding was funny and interesting - they love the game. https://www.earwolf.com/show/how-did-this-get-played/
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Jan 13, 2020 17:33
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Figured out today that Sam's ability to knock MULEs out with packages depends on how hard you wing them. Early in the game tossing while standing still does the trick, but later on MULEs and terrorists start wearing heavier coats and face shields and stuff. After that the basic throw doesn't work anymore and just stuns them for a moment. So I started wearing speed skeleton legs, punch gloves, and sprinting while tossing, which gives packages so much momentum that enemies hit with them get knocked the gently caress out into next week go flying back like ten feet. 
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Jan 13, 2020 20:57
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Worth noting is Sam’s right arm is stronger than his left, so “the arm you use to throw” literally makes a difference as well
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Jan 13, 2020 21:04
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night slime posted:Looks like the game is programmed to help out the mules if they get stuck. Cheaters... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN7K8Q8xaTU I will bet  that they’ve got that in place for all human models, you included, probably at least in part so that “random porters don’t get stuck in a place where they might die and cause BTs/voidouts”the methodology of a bunch of sams dragging a car to hell is pretty  thoughe: tempted to see if you find the car in the seam after that happens Ursine Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jan 13, 2020 |
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Jan 13, 2020 21:08
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I will bet I was going to try to mess with it some more but it's hard as gently caress to recreate stuff in this game. I kept trying to do this weird boss one again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az-AShy6MsE No idea what really happened other than I peed on its face/eye? Every other try I missed it and got knocked down or just made a little white spot, and it takes forever to set up so I just gave up.
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Jan 13, 2020 21:57
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night slime posted:I was going to try to mess with it some more but it's hard as gently caress to recreate stuff in this game. I kept trying to do this weird boss one again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az-AShy6MsE No idea what really happened other than I peed on its face/eye? Every other try I missed it and got knocked down or just made a little white spot, and it takes forever to set up so I just gave up. Presumably Ex 1 grenades would have the same effect with less timing necessary, although the instant full color change seems like a bug regardless
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Jan 13, 2020 22:04
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CJacobs posted:Figured out today that Sam's ability to knock MULEs out with packages depends on how hard you wing them. Early in the game tossing while standing still does the trick, but later on MULEs and terrorists start wearing heavier coats and face shields and stuff. After that the basic throw doesn't work anymore and just stuns them for a moment. It really never gets old bonking mules with cargo. Going into a mule camp and starting with no weapons can be a lot of fun as you pick up stuff from mules you beat.
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Jan 13, 2020 22:04
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I like going into a mule camp and taking them all on with just the strand and trying to not get hit once. Sam Parry Bridges
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Jan 13, 2020 22:09
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RatHat posted:It really never gets old bonking mules with cargo. Going into a mule camp and starting with no weapons can be a lot of fun as you pick up stuff from mules you beat. grabbing a mule package out of the air while the slo mo is going on and whipping it at another mule to knock him out is the most satisfying thing in the game to me
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Jan 13, 2020 23:02
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Yeah, Kojima + Ito + del Toro is pretty much my dream team collab for a full length horror game, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up just yet. It's bizarre how few good AAA horror games there are, and how many of them seem to just get stuck in development hell or never get past the preliminary planning stage. Horror as a game genre has always had a sort of rocky relationship, because you have to walk a fine line with a lot of factors. Agency is a big one: give your players too many tools and options to counter your opponents and it becomes an action game with scary bits (RE4/5/6, Dead Space), but if you take away everything you basically make it a torture fest (Layers of Fear, which I didn't like, Five Nights) that becomes more about finishing it than the scares. Atmosphere is another, with many of the examples above. Explosions and set pieces become expected and are no longer scary (DS2 is a huge example of this) but drain out the palette or make everything dark and you just get bored (SH:Downpour, Amnesia 2) and if things get too over the top weird and you never have a chance to breathe, then it just becomes silly (Outlast). It has been a while since I played a start-to-finish horror game, because that balance is really hard to walk. Its why Silent Hill 2 is still considered such a great example, and why modern games like the RE2 Remake have scary moments rather than being an all-out horror game. 'Faith' was a good recent example, as it used a limited set to build a world, then defied it to jarring, stunning effect and made a real struggle with those limited tools. And, with how PT captured audiences long after it was made unplayable, to the point that 'PT Clones' were a thing, hinted towards that balance in Hills, headed by people who knew how to make it work. It could have failed in a dozen different ways, to be sure. But the fact that we will never know is the true punishment. Any horror recommendations would always be appreciated.
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Jan 14, 2020 04:28
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I think the Suda51/Swery65/Keiichiro Toyama joint venture should call Kojima. Not to be in charge, just help.
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Jan 14, 2020 05:31
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I was thinking recently how Silent Hill 2 is a hard one to recommend anymore.. I mean I love it, but the controls and UI are a constant fight and mechanically it's just really uncomfortable to play these days. I would probably tell folks to watch an LP and then play Shattered Memories. (or to go visit an alternate universe and play Silent Hills  )
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Jan 14, 2020 06:26
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J.A.B.C. posted:Horror as a game genre has always had a sort of rocky relationship, because you have to walk a fine line with a lot of factors. True. I feel like Alien:Isolation did a good job of giving the player lots of tools without ever making you feel like a badass who could just shoot their way out of a problem.
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Jan 14, 2020 13:22
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Probably my biggest disappointment with Death Stranding is that after a while the BTs got to be kind of boring -- there's a couple nice variations, like having to work without BB, and the bosses in the third act, but once I got a grip on how they worked they were never quite as thrilling to contend with as they were in the first couple chapters.
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Jan 14, 2020 13:36
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vseslav.botkin posted:Probably my biggest disappointment with Death Stranding is that after a while the BTs got to be kind of boring -- there's a couple nice variations, like having to work without BB, and the bosses in the third act, but once I got a grip on how they worked they were never quite as thrilling to contend with as they were in the first couple chapters. I dunno, I agree they got easier to deal with but I think it's a tricky design question. They felt really unique for a while and I feel like no matter what they'd never hit that high again, and if they just started inserting more difficult ones they'd possibly teeter off into genericness. Tangentially, I thought maybe the chiral fluctuation would be a good gimmick to insert into the gameplay as a random thing, but I wondered if it wouldn't just grind everything to a halt and just make you want to wait to resume package delivering, the way the rain in Zelda just makes you abandon the climbing you were doing (except in Zelda there is stuff to do other than climbing unlike the focus here being cargo/transporting stuff). I also thought randomized BT areas on the map would be cool, but it runs into a similar problem of just being too arbitrary and loving everything up for the player. Thinking about stuff I might want to see in the game and then realizing how much worse it could make the game kind of made me respect how much deliberate thought went into it.
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Jan 14, 2020 14:53
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More BT types would've been cool but I strongly suspect there's budget and memory limits they had to consider as well. The game runs incredibly smooth on the base console and I doubt that happens without making some sacrifices here and there.
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Jan 14, 2020 15:38
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J.A.B.C. posted:Horror as a game genre has always had a sort of rocky relationship, because you have to walk a fine line with a lot of factors. I mean if Dead Space 1 doesn't qualify as a decent horror game just because it has action then idk man. Imo just about any genre can be a good horror game because it's about tension, atmosphere and playing on fears. It's extremely difficult to pull off but like, player agency is just one small knob to be dialing on a vast machine of making a successful horror game.
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Jan 14, 2020 18:50
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I mean if Dead Space 1 doesn't qualify as a decent horror game just because it has action then idk man. Imo just about any genre can be a good horror game because it's about tension, atmosphere and playing on fears. It's extremely difficult to pull off but like, player agency is just one small knob to be dialing on a vast machine of making a successful horror game. resident evil 4 is significantly more of a third person shooter than dead space 1 but it still gets to count, people are very loose with their definitions regarding player agency.
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Jan 14, 2020 19:25
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I mean if Dead Space 1 doesn't qualify as a decent horror game just because it has action then idk man. Imo just about any genre can be a good horror game because it's about tension, atmosphere and playing on fears. It's extremely difficult to pull off but like, player agency is just one small knob to be dialing on a vast machine of making a successful horror game. Dead Space, Resident Evil 4, and Doom (3, but also 2016) fall into a kind of bucket where they’re technically horror but they’re significantly less tense (although part of the problem with using the latter term is that it’s extremely player-dependent). Tension in a game is the difference between the new player creeping along in a Soulsborne game, wary of every box, and the naked speedrunner juking every enemy that they already know is there. Games that provide you with mechanisms to remove enemies outright are generally going to have a far faster falloff rate of tension compared to games where the only option for removal of tension is “intimate knowledge of the enemy AI”, especially if most players will finish the game before ever actually fully decoding that AI. To that end, I’d classify Dead Space as technically horror in terms of plot/vibe, but the primary gameplay genre is action, and the more comfortable you are with that the less likely you are to find any tension in that gameplay. Death Stranding, similarly, is only tense in situations where you enter unprepared, and the game makes it very easy to be very prepared for 95% of the game.
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Jan 14, 2020 19:36
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dead space is an interesting one because even though by the parameters given here they do give you more options for responding to threats than your average horror game but they also work that into the formula by requiring/encouraging attacks on limbs which makes fights more frantic and gory.
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Jan 14, 2020 19:37
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Genre pedants are the worst
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Jan 14, 2020 20:04
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survival horror/horror game gate keeping is always very dumb
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Jan 14, 2020 20:11
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I'm happy to see any flavor of horror and/or metal soundtracks attempted in games. And that's why Doom2016 owns.
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Jan 14, 2020 20:29
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CJacobs posted:Genre pedants are the worst just wait until I say “death stranding is a roguelite” and summon the swarms but really, a lot of the pedantary would be solved if “genre” didn’t try to encompass both “gameplay” and “aesthetic”, and in this essay I will
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Jan 14, 2020 20:41
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night slime posted:I dunno, I agree they got easier to deal with but I think it's a tricky design question. They felt really unique for a while and I feel like no matter what they'd never hit that high again, and if they just started inserting more difficult ones they'd possibly teeter off into genericness. To tie this more explicitly into the horror game talk, I think the issue isn't just that the BTs become less difficult over time -- although they do, as your bond with BB develops, you get more weapons to fight them, and you can plan your routes to avoid them -- but they're also explained in considerable detail and their behavior is really consistent: they try to grab you, you try to escape or they succeed; if they do, then you try to escape again or fight a mini-boss. Of course, since this is Kojima, the idea of confronting and understanding your fears in order to defeat them is probably not a theme arrived at accidentally. I never played PT, so I don't know how that compares.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:50
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I still am adamant they give you tools to do away with BTs much too early in the game. I'd have preferred if your first anti-BT tool was the cufflink augment (given in chapter 2 at the point where you currently get blood grenades), so you would have to suck in a breath and get close if you wanted to eliminate them and make things easier. That way they could show that severing BTs from the living world with the cuff is 'non-lethal', and then later give you lethal tools like the blood grenades that outright kill them. From that point you can decide if you feel like the BTs 'deserve' the same non-lethal treatment you give human enemies. As is, killing them is your default option and the game doesn't really ask you to consider that they aren't just ghosts from another dimension, they're the real spirits of formerly living people, hostile or not.
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Jan 14, 2020 21:56
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Cufflink early would make for better gameplay but it’d be harder to explain why “chiral bloodblade” happens before “blood water balloon”. Extending the useful period of EX grenades with a “we tested them and this is what they seem to do” would have been nice, as would swapping the wind farm and weather station to have “avoid BT weather” be even temporarily useful instead of easily always ignored. Related, they make a point of saying your rope is blood-infused but I never found a situation where it did anything vs BTs, is there an option to bind BTs before you get the cuff or something?
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Jan 14, 2020 22:06
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i think the BT fighting tools was a bit of a design misstep, you can't REALLY extend the length that EX grenades are useful because you can't actually kill a BT with them. just maybe having hemetic grenades one shot all early game BTs on normal difficulty also wasn't the right decision, i don't know. there's a logistic issue where if it takes two you kind of slow down the game and massively increase loadout because they're also dots so. i don't know. i don't think it's game ruining but the curve also absolutely feels off. the easier design misstep to address is how absurdly good the bolas is against mules and how it's one of the first things you get
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Jan 14, 2020 22:38
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Cufflink early would make for better gameplay but it’d be harder to explain why “chiral bloodblade” happens before “blood water balloon”. Extending the useful period of EX grenades with a “we tested them and this is what they seem to do” would have been nice, as would swapping the wind farm and weather station to have “avoid BT weather” be even temporarily useful instead of easily always ignored. The blood is used for ID scans. You can bind BTs with the Boola gun tho.
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Jan 14, 2020 22:43
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