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Nail Rat posted:Actually you'll find Jon Space is from Montana. Iirc the Belter language is at least part Eastern European influences
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Jan 19, 2020 19:42
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I thought one of the books placed alex at late 40s (at that time)?
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Jan 19, 2020 19:43
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StashAugustine posted:Iirc the Belter language is at least part Eastern European influences German and Russian show up in the book version frequently. Watermelon Daiquiri posted:I thought one of the books placed alex at late 40s (at that time)? The books cover a wide timeframe. I'm saying 40 is bare minimum Alex age for Leviathan Wakes, but it's not specified anywhere I've found.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:45
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Grand Fromage posted:German and Russian show up in the book version frequently. I'm working through Book 5 and I have to ask, and this can be a one-letter reply, but Alex and Bobby never gently caress, right? Because < 40 + 20(?) = 
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Jan 19, 2020 19:48
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Toast Museum posted:For what it's worth, Ty Franck and Daniel Abraham claim to have decided in advance what the Protomolecule builders' technology is and isn't capable of, which should cut down on "Bones invents telepathy drug, never uses it again"-type goofiness. I like the line where they see Eros inexplicably move and Naomi goes "well its giving off tons of heat so at least some laws of physics still work"
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Jan 19, 2020 19:49
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T-man posted:I'm working through Book 5 and I have to ask, and this can be a one-letter reply, but Alex and Bobby never gently caress, right? Because < 40 + 20(?) = n
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Jan 19, 2020 19:50
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Ages of some of the other major characters are less specific as far as I can tell. Avasarala is an old grandma but I don't think they're more specific than that. Bobbie is a gunnery sergeant, and the internet tells me the typical time to earn that rank is 15 years, so assuming she joined up at 18 and the MMC is similar to the US military she should be early-mid 30s at her introduction.
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Jan 19, 2020 19:56
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Book spoilers, but Alex is actually over a thousand years old. Even Avasarala is way too young for him, let alone Bobbie.
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Jan 19, 2020 20:06
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Cas Anvar's age isn't listed anywhere on the internet. He's the man from Earth.
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Jan 19, 2020 20:17
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Toast Museum posted:For what it's worth, Ty Franck and Daniel Abraham claim to have decided in advance what the Protomolecule builders' technology is and isn't capable of, which should cut down on "Bones invents telepathy drug, never uses it again"-type goofiness. Yeah I mean, the way I interpreted the PM tech is like a Bronze Age civilization trying to make sense of a jumbo jet. It's not magic, it follows physical laws and principles like anything else, they're just so far beyond what we currently understand that we can really only make sense of it with clumsy analogies and correlations that might be like 10% accurate at best. I'm glad the writers decided to constrain themselves at the start and avoid the urge to make the PM a deus ex machina though.
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Jan 19, 2020 22:21
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Cojawfee posted:Cas Anvar's age isn't listed anywhere on the internet. He's the man from Earth. Wrong, he's from Mariner Valley!
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Jan 19, 2020 23:26
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McSpanky posted:Yeah I mean, the way I interpreted the PM tech is like a Bronze Age civilization trying to make sense of a jumbo jet. It's not magic, it follows physical laws and principles like anything else, they're just so far beyond what we currently understand that we can really only make sense of it with clumsy analogies and correlations that might be like 10% accurate at best. That's all fine and good, so long as we're okay accepting that means it's the writers using it as magic when convenient. Which I'm okay with! I just struggle to call the show hard sci-fi when there's literal zombie episodes.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:34
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You're presuming a consistent definition of hard sci-fi. There's a spectrum from only, 100% exact sticking to science in all things, to sticking to science for the most part with one or two exceptions, which are often something to allow FTL travel. I'd say most people define hard vs soft as hard is trying to stick to science while soft makes no real attempt at it, like Star Wars. The Expanse is easily the most hard sci-fi thing I've seen on TV, I'd be curious to know if there's anything else (I'm not counting alt-history things like For All Mankind). The only buy in you need is that a species billions of years more advanced than humans is able to make technology humans do not even begin to understand, which is not a big one for me. E: I forgot there's a whole other school of thought that hard sci-fi is about science and soft sci-fi is about people, regardless of anything else. So even the world's most scientifically accurate story would be soft sci-fi if it were politics focused. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 20, 2020 |
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Jan 20, 2020 00:41
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Anywhere here's some season 4 Rocinante paint scheme concept art. 
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Jan 20, 2020 00:46
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Grand Fromage posted:You're presuming a consistent definition of hard sci-fi. There's a spectrum from only, 100% exact sticking to science in all things, to sticking to science for the most part with one or two exceptions, which are often something to allow FTL travel. I'd say most people define hard vs soft as hard is trying to stick to science while soft makes no real attempt at it, like Star Wars. I don't think this is the distinction most people would make. Star Wars, for example, is widely considered to be space fantasy - something far enough removed from sci-fi that it's not, really. When I think of "soft" sci-fi, I think of Doctor Who, Blake's 7, and Star Trek. When I think of "hard" sci-fi, I think of things like the Martian, or even something like Blade Runner. Maybe it is just me, too, but the Expanse has always felt like a "dark fantasy" version of sci-fi - real-world-esque, gritty politics, set in a world where fantasy effectively exists. Grand Fromage posted:E: I forgot there's a whole other school of thought that hard sci-fi is about science and soft sci-fi is about people, regardless of anything else. So even the world's most scientifically accurate story would be soft sci-fi if it were politics focused. I think this might be worth acknowledging for this discussion, if only because the Expanse has definitely - and rightly - chosen to focus on the politics and characters involved over the details of a science miracle multiple times.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:49
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It would be one thing if the humans were doing this stuff without any explanation of how it would work, but it's totally different when even the humans don't understand what's going on. I think the only thing in this show that might make it a fantasy is the Epstein drive where we don't really know what it is. Fuel pellets go into a chamber, they explode, lots of power happens. Everything else is realistic. They don't have magic subspace communication, everything is recordings being sent back and forth. There's no warp drive, the epstein drive still takes a considerable amount of time to get places. The protomolecule stuff is just super advanced beyond our understanding. The PM race built a planet sized machine to do something that we don't understand. Some other race shot this machine with a weird bullet that we also don't understand and can't comprehend. The best explanation is like what's been in the thread, and that's like someone from the present goes to the past. Or even groups from the same time period where one is more advanced. When Europeans arrived in the west, pointed a stick at one of the natives, made a loud sound and then the person mysteriously drops dead, they probably thought that was magic at first. Or if some logging crew in a rain forest runs into a previously uncontacted primitive people. They might be confused at the mechanical monsters that belch smoke, make lots of noise, and rip the trees down, but it's not magic. The Expanse to me is hard sci-fi because what the humans are doing is something we can comprehend existing in the near future. The PM stuff is clearly some sort of technology. We just don't understand how it works yet.
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Jan 20, 2020 00:53
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Beamed posted:I don't think this is the distinction most people would make. I disagree, but that's okay. I think a lot of old school SF fans would agree with you but my experience is those opinions are a minority.
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Jan 20, 2020 01:00
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I'm rewatching S4 with my wife and I love how Amos calls Murtry Marty, Murty, Murphy, and Morty before he finally stops loving around in the bar scene.
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Jan 20, 2020 01:30
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Cojawfee posted:There's no warp drive, the epstein drive still takes a considerable amount of time to get places. The Epstein drive isn't an advance in speed, it's an advance in efficiency. How long it takes to get from point A to point B is governed by the stresses the human body is capable of withstanding. I don't recall them talking about it much in the series, but the book there are still considerable ships running around with the old style tourch drives. Those slingshot ships I believe are all pre Epstein. That change in efficiency means that one needs to carry much less reaction mass and therefore getting places is loads cheaper. That might translate into constant acceleration where pre Epstein one might go on the float , but it's not some magic speed thing. I don't think it's any less sci-fi than the older tourch engines. I'd be pointing a finger at the drug cocktail to make my argument before engines. We can't do any of those things today and really have no idea how they work, but non of them seem like they wouldn't be reasonable advances humans could technologically make.
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Jan 20, 2020 01:37
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Blade Runner with its implausible replicants and the physics-breaking antigravity cars is hard sci-fi, but the Expanse is fantasy. OK, I guess. For instance, I have a bunch of books from Stephen Baxter, that are considered hard scifi, yet they have wormholes pretty much akin to the ring system in the Expanse. So... Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 20, 2020 |
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Jan 20, 2020 01:52
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Who cares, watch the drat show
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Jan 20, 2020 02:00
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The hard sci-fi, soft sci-fi and science fantasy distinctions are extremely subjective and some part of it is based in 'I like this story, I do not like that one.' Just look at Dune, where you'll find people being able to make strong arguments for any one of those three sub-genres.
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Jan 20, 2020 02:35
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Horizon Burning posted:The hard sci-fi, soft sci-fi and science fantasy distinctions are extremely subjective and some part of it is based in 'I like this story, I do not like that one.' Just look at Dune, where you'll find people being able to make strong arguments for any one of those three sub-genres. Well...two of the three.
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Jan 20, 2020 02:45
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I only like my fantasy hard and my sci-fi harder.
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Jan 20, 2020 02:45
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I get hard watching this show and reading the books, does that count?
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Jan 20, 2020 03:02
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TraderStav posted:I get hard watching this show and reading the books, does that count? 
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Jan 20, 2020 03:11
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drewhead posted:The Epstein drive isn't an advance in speed, it's an advance in efficiency. How long it takes to get from point A to point B is governed by the stresses the human body is capable of withstanding. I don't recall them talking about it much in the series, but the book there are still considerable ships running around with the old style tourch drives. Those slingshot ships I believe are all pre Epstein. From a semi-erect sci-fi perspective, the Epstein drive is essential, because without a miracle sub-light engine, the concept of intrastellar trade doesn't make sense. Escaping a gravity well would be really costly otherwise!
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Jan 20, 2020 03:42
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If you want to read a lot of hypothetical words about the Epstein drive, this is good: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist2.php#epstein
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Jan 20, 2020 03:58
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Invalid Validation posted:I only like my fantasy hard and my sci-fi harder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCqjR1gHyIQ
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Jan 20, 2020 04:27
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Grand Fromage posted:If you want to read a lot of hypothetical words about the Epstein drive, this is good: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist2.php#epstein the best part about that site is reading up about all the crazy NASA/JPL ideas they have, I don't even know if those are feasible but boy they sure do sound sure of themselves.
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Jan 20, 2020 06:24
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Nail Rat posted:I'm rewatching S4 with my wife and I love how Amos calls Murtry Marty, Murty, Murphy, and Morty before he finally stops loving around in the bar scene. Yeah, that was great. Amos just starts taking him seriously.
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Jan 20, 2020 07:23
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I guess the season was a little slow cause the books they’re adapting aren’t particularly good to begin with? Some book person go head and minor spoil me, is this really the end of Miller?
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Jan 20, 2020 08:38
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Hard Scifi is scifi that sticks hard to the rules of science and when it gets to speculation, it keeps it consist and following those same rules. Soft scifi is stuff that plays fast and loose with the rules of science, and is generally consistent in it's internal logic, even if that logic doesn't take into consideration. For instance, the gravity produced from the epsteins constant acceleration (and the lack thereof on the float), is a consistent point in the Expanse, but in, say, Iain M Banks' culture novels, they've got all kinds of poo poo. FTL, artificial gravity, displacers, CAM, AI, effectors, field technology, insane levels of biological manipulation, hyperspace of two varieties, and OCPs. Some of which are, y'know, potentially possible, but most of which is just wholesale fiction, for the point of the story and setting. Although it's consistent, and very, very good and you should go and read those books with a dram of whisky. If you accept a couple of assumptions from the expanse, like the highly efficient epstein drive, and super advanced space tech, it stays pretty hard, albeit not angry, blue veined, diamond cutter hard.
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Jan 20, 2020 09:23
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Nail Rat posted:I'm rewatching S4 with my wife and I love how Amos calls Murtry Marty, Murty, Murphy, and Morty before he finally stops loving around in the bar scene. Amos is great at trolling people to their face.
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Jan 20, 2020 11:11
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StashAugustine posted:I like the line where they see Eros inexplicably move and Naomi goes "well its giving off tons of heat so at least some laws of physics still work" I would legit watch an entire episode devoted to earth and the belters seeing Eros move and running around waving their hands frantically, screaming "oh my preconceived notions about reality!"
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Jan 20, 2020 13:28
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Do the books provide more info about the guy who invented the Epstein Drive? Did he kill himself or not?
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Jan 20, 2020 15:27
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TommyGun85 posted:Do the books provide more info about the guy who invented the Epstein Drive? Did he kill himself or not? Here's the full short story But yeah, he basically dies from his discovery because he can't slow down.
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Jan 20, 2020 15:43
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TommyGun85 posted:Do the books provide more info about the guy who invented the Epstein Drive? Did he kill himself or not? Theres a novella that was roughly adapted for the show. He died in his ship, which continued accelerating at 10g+ to a significant fraction of the speed of light (5% or so) and is still visible with very high power telescopes from the inner planets. His wife found the plans on his computer and Mars shared them with Earth in exchange for their independence.
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Jan 20, 2020 15:44
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TommyGun85 posted:Do the books provide more info about the guy who invented the Epstein Drive? Did he kill himself or not? Epstein didn't kill himself. 
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Jan 20, 2020 16:04
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pixelbaron posted:Here's the full short story it was a joke. Drone Jett got it.
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Jan 20, 2020 16:12
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